Oral History Program Margie Deming Josephson Interviewed by Ellen Pace 12 June 1983 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Margie Deming Josephson Interviewed by Ellen Pace 12 June 1983 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Josephson, Margie Deming, an oral history by Ellen Pace, 12 June 1983, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Margie Deming Josephson. The interview was conducted on June 12, 1983, by Ellen Pace, in her home at 4510 Taylor, Ogden, Utah. Josephson discusses her religion and personal family history. EP: Where and when were you born? MJ: April 8, 1923, in Arlington, Maricopa County, Arizona. EP: Were you born at home? MJ: Yes, I was born at home and I have just recently seen the place where I was born. My older sister, Letha, told me that Mother and Daddy had sent all of the children to different places to stay, and they had asked two women to come over: one was named Margaret Fitzpatrick and the other Jesse Anderson, so when they were trying to think what to name me, my Mother decided to name me after these two women-Jesse Margaret Deming. EP: Where in the line of children were you? MJ: I was the sixth child. EP: Did you spend most of your early life in Arlington? MJ: I lived in Arlington until I was twelve years old and then my family moved to Phoenix, Arizona. EP: What is your earliest childhood memory? MJ: I think it is the long, hot summers in Arizona and we would go barefoot all the time. I had two favorite cousins, they were both boys, and they were around my age. We would 1 spend just hours and hours together, and we would swim in the canal which was a dirty, canal, not sanitary at all, but we never. . .I guess we were just too healthy to catch any germs from it. And we used to go to dances that my Father played the violin and my Mother played the piano for, and we would go to these dances. I was around seven, my cousins and I then, and we didn't want to wear any shoes because it was the hot summer, so we went to the dances without any shoes, and we would dance three together all the time. EP: What were your cousin's names? MJ: Merlyn Anderson and Lawrence Perry. EP: What kind of a town was Arlington? MJ: It was very, very small. In fact, it has never been put on the map. It still is not. And we had all of us, I think, in one room at school. I can remember being in the fifth grade and being in the same room as I was in the first grade. EP: With just one teacher? MJ: With one teacher. My teacher's name was Miss Sell. She was a redheaded lady, she sang, and she had always wanted to be an opera star, and so when she sang, she would let her voice quiver. I just thought that was beautiful, and so I tried to imitate her, and I can recall my Mother was so embarrassed about my singing that we had company one time and she asked Virginia to sing and I wanted so badly to sing, I started to join in and she got me aside and said "Please, don't." So, from that point in time, I have never been interested in singing. I love music, but I have never been interested. EP: What a tragedy! It was a different singing style, unacceptable? 2 MJ: Yes, from this teacher. I truly admired her, she was a lovely looking lady and I truly admired her. EP: Can you remember how many children there would have been in this school? MJ: I don't recall, and I just went to a family reunion and talked to a man that said that he had had quite a crush on me when I was a young girl, and he used to wait for me until I walked across the field and he would be swinging on the gate. I didn’t even remember him, nor did I remember his name, and he said "I have always had a crush on you." But I think there were possibly thirty, I might be wrong on that. It seems about that many. EP: How far from the school did you live? MJ: About a mile straight through the field. We could see the school from our front door. And one time...do you want me to tell about my smoking? EP: Oh, yes. MJ: My cousin Glen Roberts had been smoking a cigar and I was just fascinated by it, so I decided to watch where he put the cigar butt, and he threw it down on the grass and I picked it up and I kept it. And the next day I decided that I would play hooky from school and I would smoke that cigar to see how it was. Mother came in to awaken me, and I told her I was too sick to go to school. My Father said, "Marie, she is not sick. I think you should make her go to school." Mother said, "No, if she says she is sick, then she is sick." So I took the cigar and I went out behind the house, and I took about three puffs on it. I became so sick and dizzy, and I looked at the school across the field and it was just whirling round and round and round, so I went into the house so sick 3 I could hardly hold my head up and my Mother said "now see, Normie, I told you she was sick." So then I didn't tell her until after I was grown that Daddy was right and she was wrong. EP: Was your Daddy properly contrite? MJ: Yes, he really felt that I was sick. Well, I was! EP: Tell me about your Dad. MJ: I remember Daddy as being a strong person that I thought could anything in the world. There is just nothing my Father couldn’t do. The thing I loved about him most was his honesty, he was completely honest, and he was so well thought of in the community. Everyone admired my Father. He was so strict that my cousins thought that he was terrible, because he was strict not only with us but with them when they would come to visit us. But he was very gentle with my Mother. If we ever said we didn't like anything that she had fixed to eat, he thought it was a personal insult to my Mother's cooking, and believe me, we learned to eat anything that was on the table and we would never say that it wasn't good. EP: Do you feel that part of your high regard for your Mother was because of his high regard for her? MJ: I think so. He honored her. And he honored womanhood. He felt that women should be put on a pedestal in away. Mother worked very hard, but I can remember him rubbing her shoulders and rubbing her back, you know, he was gentle with Mother. He was firmest with us, with the children. EP: Was he affectionate? 4 MJ: Very affectionate. We just knew there was something wonderful going on between them. I didn't know what, but they would look at each other with such love, that I had the idea that marriage was something very, very lovely, special. EP: Was he affectionate with the children? MJ: At times. At times not. I can remember being rebuffed by him, pushed away, and it hurt me terribly because I couldn’t read his moods. And I would say that he was just a little moody, maybe that was just my idea, but I felt he was. I remember particularly how strict he was: he didn't believe in women wearing makeup, and he believed in complete modestly, and it was hot in Arizona and I loved to wear shorts, and believe me, if they weren't modest shorts, he put his foot down on that. He didn't like any of his girls doing anything that would be taken in the wrong light. EP: Was he physically harsh? Did he spank you? MJ: Oh yes! He had a razor strap. I feared that razor strap. Yes, he was physically harsh. I was a rebellious child, I had my own ideas and oftentimes I would do things that antagonized him and I caught my share of spankings, much more than Virginia because she was such a good child and I wasn't, it was completely different, you know. It was hard on him I imagine, having her and then having me. EP: Was she ever punished? MJ: Not to my knowledge. She was a good person. The only mischief she ever got in was of my doing--I would talk her into it. I would think things up and then talk her into it, and sometimes we would get scolded, but I am sure my Folks knew where it came from, that it was from me and not her. I was a rebellious child. 5 EP: I wonder if you don't have a bit of a complex. MJ: No, I don't think so; I think that is true fact. EP: What about your Mother? Did she condone his discipline? MJ: Yes, she did. And I am sure it was difficult for my Mother, she was such a soft, tenderhearted person, but she never opposed him. The only time I can ever remember her doing this was, they wanted me to be a majorette at school and Daddy didn't like the idea of me wearing those short skirts, and she went ahead and made one for me and said, "Now, they are all doing it and there is nothing wrong with it. I am going to make her one and she is going to wear it." That is the only time I can ever remember her sticking up for one of the children against him. He was very kind about it, he knew he had met his match. She was cute with him. They were good together. He was very firm, and I am sure she softened him up many times, in her patient, gentle way. She was a very lovely person. I remember the warmth of her and I miss it. She had an understanding mind. No matter how bad a person was she saw the good in him. We had a cousin that we met down at the reunion and she is so coarse, and a person that you just would not be proud of. I remember Mother working with her and trying to bring out the good in her. She did this with most people. EP: What was your Father like in looks? MJ: My Father looked like Abraham Lincoln. As a matter of fact, Virginia and Letha and I were talking about that and Virginia said when she first went to school, she saw Abraham Lincoln's picture on the wall and she thought: what is my Daddy's picture doing up there? But he did. He was a ruggedly handsome man. I am sure most 6 people thought he was ugly, but to me he was ruggedly handsome. He was large, very large. EP: The one picture I ever saw of him made me think of Abraham Lincoln. MJ: My Father was such a clean person, physically clean, mentally too, but physically clean. He wore old overalls, patches and everything, but his body always smelled so good, and he just always looked clean—his hair was always just freshly shampooed. I remember that about him. EP: I remember that about Grandmother, too. She was so very clean. What was she like? MJ: She was just a sweetheart. Very gentle. I don't know what I would have done without my Mother, especially in my bad times after my first husband was killed. I had two little children and she took care of them just like her own. She was so good to me, always. She was, I would say, a person who was not a realist. She was a dreamer, she buried her head in the sand or looked at the world through rose-colored glasses, I think, but she thought the best about people and usually they wanted to be good around her because she thought that. My Father was the realist. I take after my father's side of the family, not gentle, a little abrasive. EP: No, you are not. MJ: Oh! Abrasive. EP: No, you are not. Just outspoken. MJ: Very. EP: Did you inherit his sense of humor? 7 MJ: Yes, I think so. I think Daddy had a good sense of humor. Excepting he had one flaw. He did not like...he liked to pull a joke on someone, but he didn’t like you to pull one on him. He was a poor sport about that, as I recall. EP: The stories that I have heard about him, the flaw that I thought I noticed was an oversupply of pride. MJ: Yes, he was, true. EP: I have heard my Mother say that he would never ask for a job, and I thought with their circumstances, he should have. MJ: That's true, very true. I can remember the poverty and I hated it. By the time it got to me, and it was during the depression, we were so poor. I recall, when I was a little girl, I thought: I will never, never live like this. Once I get old enough, I will make my living and I will make a good one. EP: And you did. MJ: I have done fairly well. For my Father and Mother, that wasn't high on their priority list. Being kind to others was very high. EP: Were you ever hungry? MJ: I can remember being hungry for certain foods, like greens, certain foods I would be hungry for, but no, we always did have a cow and farm things. There were a few times when we certainly didn't have much. At one time, when they found Mother had sugar diabetes, they had left Virginia and me alone on the farm. Daddy left a little bit of money. Oh, I guess it was Dorothy, Virginia and me. I was probably seven or eight. But Daddy had to go to Phoenix with Mother, because she was seriously ill and they 8 didn't know too much about diabetes at that time, and they really hadn't diagnosed her case, so Daddy went into Phoenix with her, and he left the three of us together. Because Dorothy was oldest, he left the money with her and she squandered it. Therefore, we didn't have enough to eat, and Virginia and I just about starved. And then Daddy came home and found out the trouble we were in. EP: How long were they gone? MJ: I think a couple of weeks before he came back, and Ginger and I were just scrounging around for food. I am sure had Mother been there she could have fixed a marvelous meal with what we had in the cupboards, because she was that way, but we felt that we didn't have a thing to eat. We had a cow, and our Aunt Ada came over and invited us to her house because she knew we were alone, but she said, "Bring the cow" --they didn't have a cow, so we brought Old Bossy with us. When we got over there, Virginia was not feeling well and Ada was insisting on us doing all the cleaning and everything; she just worked us to death. So, Virginia was not feeling well and we decided that we would go home and that we would take-Bossy with us. So here were two little kids, going down the country road with this cow. And Aunt Ada came along and scolded us and tried to get us to come back, but as I remember we went home with our cow. We would rather be at home. But she was very unfair with Virginia. Virginia was Rawlins age, three years older than me, six years older than Ivy, so she felt Virginia should do all the work and she was very unfair. EP: Aunt Ada was. MJ: My mother's sister. 9 EP: Had she not lived with your family for a time? MJ: I think she had lived a short time with Mother and Dad. But they were, financially; much better off than we were. In fact, in the community, it seems to me that we were the most poor, and we had the largest family, and I think the reason is all these people who would pour in and live with us, which I resented, and do to this day, because I feel that they (her parents) shouldn't have been quite so giving. I think that you can be giving, but I think that your own children come first and I don't feel that often we did. But then I always felt because I was the way I was, that I was a selfish human being. But later on I discovered that there are lots of people more selfish than I am, but I hated that poverty. They were bad times for most everyone, especially for Arizona--they were hit so hard. Now I talked to people up here in Utah, and they were not hit quite that hard. EP: The life-style in Arizona was not so self-sufficient as in Utah? MJ: Right. We had to do with what we had. EP: Were there stores in Arlington? MJ: We had two stores, one was called the Deseret Rose and it is still standing; and then we had the Arlington Store, Letha says it was not the same store, but it looked exactly the same, and I think it is. Those were the two stores that we had, and then we had to go to Phoenix for any major shopping. I was the sixth child of George Norman Deming and Julia Marie Biddlecome Deming. It is so easy to forget the precious past and as I enter into my sixtieth year I find it hard to recall what happened yesterday, let alone many years ago. We sometimes overlook the effects upon our lives of our ancestry and family traditions that we possess. I have always had a great appreciation for my family 10 and the sacrifices they have made for me. My earliest memories are of a stern but loving father and of a gentle, sweet mother. They shared a lifetime full of hardship but Mother's attitude and sweet patience were ever present and life was a joy in spite of hard times. The first Deming child was Letha. How I admired and loved her. She was so pretty. I thought my sister Letha was very beautiful. She was very slender and "marcelled" her hair, and I was so proud to be her little sister. I thought she knew everything there was to know. She was always so kind and good to me. She was so kind and loving. She unselfishly answered as a surrogate mother to our family. The second Deming child was our brother Jack. I adored him. I cannot recall a time when he was not a perfect brother. Gordon was the third Deming child. He was fun loving but he was full of mischief. He was usually in trouble with someone. However, he was good to me and he was really quite protective of me when I was growing up. The fourth Deming child was Dorothy. I loved Dotty, but we were so different and I have often regretted some of the things I said to her in anger, after she passed away. Virginia was the fifth Deming child. We were more like twins. All our lives we have been able to sense things the other was doing or thinking. It is really a bit uncanny. She was my very best friend and when I married it was really hard to make the adjustment to sleep with someone else because when I was a child I always held her thumb in my hand as we were sleeping. Some of the happy memories I have of Arlington were when Ginger and I would play together. We both had good imaginations and loved to play by the hour. Sometimes Mother had a hard time getting us into the house for meals. We made up stories and acted them out. Sometimes the most impossible things seemed real to us. There was an old wrecked car in the yard and we would pretend it had 11 diamond headlights and jewels all over it. In our fantasies we were extremely wealthy. We were twins, my name was Betty Marie and hers was Mary Jane. My hair was blonde and hers jet black but no one could tell us apart. The villain in the stories was always "Peewee," and we would put him in jail where he would stay until we'd need him for another story, then he'd repent of his evil ways and we'd let him out of jail. Soon he was committing another crime and we'd put him back in jail. I was the sixth Deming child. And then, seven years later, Hal was the seventh. He was so cute and we all spoiled him. He was the last child to be born into the family and the first to die. When I was a baby, Mother had opened a jar of plums and they were spoiled. She was going to dispose of them but she was called away for a while and she left them on the drain board and I crawled up on the counter and ate some of the plums and, of course, became deathly ill. My daddy was in the field plowing and was prompted to get off the plow and kneel and pray for the baby because something was wrong at home. At first, he tried to disregard it and the prompting was so strong that he finally got off the plow and got on his knees and pleaded with the Lord to take care of his family and especially the baby. Then he took up his watch out of his pocket to check the time and then he decided that he would go ahead and finish the plowing because he felt better after he had prayed. So he finished up the plowing and then he hurried home and mother heard the tractor coming and she ran out to the gate to meet him and his first words were: "Is the baby OK now?" And she said: "How did you know something was wrong?" and he told her what had happened. When they related that to me, it was a spiritual experience and I knew that my folks would never tell anything that was not true. My dad had his own religion but the Lord loved him and He gave him many special gifts. And he had 12 the gift of healing. He was always called upon if anyone in the community was ill because he could lay his hands on your head and the pain would leave. Dad said he could feel the pain flowing up his arms. He was a very special man in many ways. Although he was very strict and stern, we adored him. Mother was so ill when I was growing up that it made me a nervous wreck. I would rush home from school praying that she would be all right. I always imagined that she would be lying on the floor passed out or something because she was so ill. She had high blood pressure and at that time she probably had sugar diabetes, but we were not aware of that. She was always thinking of others and doing for others. And I resented the fact that she was so charitable to other people because we were so poor and I felt if she were less charitable to others we would have more. That shows how unselfish a little girl can be; however, I have always taken care of my own family before I thought of others. Right or wrong, I don't know. We didn't have a church in Arlington, but we had visiting preachers who would come through and sometimes stay for a few months. Mother would always go and she'd take most of the children with her, but Daddy wouldn't go, he'd stay at home. He didn't believe in an organized church He felt that your church should be within yourself. I'm not so sure that is wrong. I felt there was no place on earth like Arlington. I knew everyone and was related to most everyone. It was a grand place to grow up. We spent long, lazy summer days amusing ourselves, and Virginia and I did have vivid imaginations. We never ran out of things to do. Any mischief that we got into was usually my doing. Virginia always wanted to do what was right. And at times that bored me and I would make up something to do. Because she loved me she would go along with it usually and sometimes we would get in a little trouble over that. However, 13 we were really very good kids, I'd say. When I was in kindergarten my sister Letha was attending college in Tempe and I stayed with her that year. I had a lisp and couldn't pronounce my "r's" so my sister Virginia up to that time had been my interpreter. When the teacher asked my name I told her it was "Thathy Margurt," meaning "Jessie Margaret." The teacher thought I was saying "Sassy Margaret." My best friend when I was growing up besides my cousins and Virginia, was Louise Jago. She and I were inseparable. I remember once being jealous when Letha said Louise had "such fine hair." In my mind "fine" meant good, and she never said that about my hair! Louise's older sisters were having a double wedding, and Louise and I were flower girls. Mother made each of us a beautiful dress. Just about my first memory of a traumatic experience was when Mother and I rode the school bus out to Jago's. We were going there with the dresses Mother was making for Louise and me. Herman, Louise's older brother, saw the bus stop and didn't want to miss it so he ran as fast as he could to catch it. Just as he reached the bus he collapsed and died right at my mother’s feet. His was the first funeral I ever attended and the first dead person I ever saw. We left Arlington when I was twelve and it was a hard adjustment for me, as well as for the rest of the family. Mother was sick and the Depression was on and Daddy struggled to make a living. Mother managed so well on what she had. I cannot imagine anyone cooking meals that were so delicious with so little in the kitchen cupboards. But I remember my embarrassment at times at having homemade biscuits for my lunches. After a girl made a snide remark about how poor we must be, I would never eat the biscuits. I would go hungry rather than do that. I always hated poverty and those were very bad years. Soon I left Phoenix and went to live with Uncle Barney and Aunt Ethel up around 14 Kingman. They were very good to me but I missed my family and especially Virginia. I went to Kingman to school and it was just a block away from Grandma Bonelli's house, and I used to visit her during recess and she would let me play the player piano in her living room. I really enjoyed her. She was a very fine lady and played an important role in my life at that time. My family moved to Mineral Park and I went to school in Chloride. I really enjoyed living there. We had a beautiful white adobe home with fireplaces in the bedrooms and in most all of the rooms. Mother would let us take turns taking care of the house and cooking. And I enjoyed planning meals and making the house look pretty. The kids my age in Chloride were so much fun and we had some wonderful times. I was very impressed with a boy whose father had a brand new LaSalle car. It was such a beautiful blue and this boy dressed so nicely, but for some reason Dad did not like him. The boy asked me on a date and Dad objected but finally let me go. This was unusual for Dad because his word was law in our home. It took me all day to get ready for that date. I'll never forget it, how excited I was. And when we drove off in that beautiful car I felt so happy. But my happiness was dashed when he pulled the car off the side of the road and tried to be fresh with me. So, I jumped out of the car, and I started walking home. And he drove beside me trying to talk me into getting back into the car but I wouldn't do it, and I must have walked five miles. Finally, I could see our home and Dad was on the porch. I expected to be in terrible trouble, but as I pulled myself up to the porch and sat beside Daddy, expecting the worst, his only comment was: "You are too impressed with pretty cars and clothing. He was not good enough for you, Margie, and I hope that you’ve learned your lesson." And that was all that he said to me. And I had learned my lesson. I was never so glad to see my Dad in 15 my life. Then we moved to Uncle Barney's ranch and Daddy built a little house in back of the main house and that was where we lived. I went by bus into Kingman High School and we had a great group of kids to run with. Life was filled with fun. It was then that I met Paul Stoddard. My family adored him and it wasn't long until I realized he was very special. He had started a Branch for the Church, the Mormon Church, and was Branch President. He was also Scoutmaster and my brother Hal was a Scout. Hal had been asked to furnish drinks for the troop one night and so I went down to the store and picked up a case of coke. When Hal said Paul didn’t think they should drink coke I was really surprised. Paul explained the Word of Wisdom to me and I thought that was the most ridiculous thing I had ever heard of. The more he explained about the Church, the more I realized it wasn't for me. Imagine anyone in Arizona not drinking iced tea in the summertime! That was beyond me. We had lived such a carefree life and I felt my father's ideas were good enough for me. If anyone could live up to his strict standards it would make them almost perfect. Virginia was always included in our dates and she would usually drive for us. Paul was a dreadful driver and he frightened us. Paul was a very handsome man and the thing that was the greatest about him, he had the most wonderful sense of humor and he was so full of fun, and I have always been a fun-loving person. We truly had a good marriage. It wasn't long before we were married and tried to plan it for Virginia's birthday, on October 1st. We had a lovely wedding at my dad and mother's home. Letha helped make my wedding dress and mother and Aunt Ruth, I think, worked on it. It was a lovely little wedding dress with beautiful sleeves and it was very, very pretty. Paul had been working on our home. He had torn down an old motel and he used the old lumber in this home. He was really a 16 very capable carpenter. The house had nice large rooms and everything, but we had planned our wedding for October 1st on Virginia's birthday and we did not want to wait until it was completed. He hadn't gotten it all done. He had the roof on and the floor and half of it in. The bathroom was in and the kitchen sink, and everything, but it was not finished. He decided we should go ahead and move in because we did not want to live with the folks, and that we should hang blankets up so people couldn't see in. I recall one night when we had gone to bed. He had to get up during the night. He worked the night shift at the mine and he had to get up and so he set the alarm. The alarm went off and I was next to the night stand. I couldn't get hold of the clock, so he reached over to get hold of the clock and he couldn't get it to turn off so he shook it. I turned on the light and I had ink all over my body, he had ink all over his. I had been writing a letter the night before and hadn't put the lid good on the inkwell. So when he shook it, he shook it all over us. We were navy blue from head to foot. Anyhow, we had so much fun over that, and I can still remember it and laugh at it this day. We just had so many good experiences and a lot of good experiences in the Church. It was hard to get people to become interested in Mormonism, especially down in that part of the country. Everyone lived such carefree lives. So Paul was trying to bring people into the Church and it was a little hard. I remember how much I loved clothing and I had seen a dress one day when I went shopping and oh, it was just absolutely darling, but we didn't have enough money in our budget to support us. So we had nothing in our clothing budget and so I told him, "Paul, you have all that tithing money. Why don't we take the tithing and then we can pay it back." I'll never forget the look of shock that went across his face. I knew that I had said something just dreadful, but I thought that I was 17 being very practical because the dress would be gone later and he had already budgeted his money and so I thought just a little dipping into the tithing would be OK. Paul was a very strong person and my son David has inherited this strength. No matter what I would do to persuade him of something I couldn't do it if he felt that it was not right. And, believe me, I tried every dido I could to persuade him to dip into that tithing money for the dress. But I was so proud of him because he didn't. I have many occasions to be very proud of Paul. First of all, I’d like to tell you about Virginia's accident. She and Aunt Ruth and several people were travelling to Kingman one day, and Aunt Ruth hit the brakes and the car flipped over. Virginia's back was broken and her hand was cut very badly. I heard from a friend that there had been a dreadful accident on the Kingman highway and that a girl's hand was almost cut off and they thought they would have to amputate it, perhaps. And then later when I heard Virginia was in the accident I was just terrified. But, fortunately, the hand was able to be saved and her back was put in a cast. (Virginia was in a full head to toe body cast for over a year.) She spent quite a bit of time in the hospital and then when she was moved, she came to my house. By that time our father had gone to Oregon, Grants Pass, Oregon, to be with my aunt, his sister. He was going to do some mining up there. So he left Virginia and Mother and Hal over at Paul's and my home. By that time I was pregnant with David and I had a job with the Post Office. I drove the mail from Kingman over to Boulder City and delivered mail along the way. I had to do that every day. It was kind of nice to get out of the house because the smell of Virginia's cast was really upsetting to my tummy. I had a terrible time doing it, though. I would drive a little way, and I'd have to stop the car. It was just dreadful but I didn't want to say anything to Paul 18 because we did need the money. On his days off, he would take my route for me. But Paul did expect a lot of manual labor from me, for which I did not have the body. I was very slight in build at that time and I was not strong. I feel he did expect a little bit too much of me. Of course, at that time all I was interested in was pleasing him. Poor little Virginia really suffered during that period of time on her back and in this cast and it was hot. I remember she used to get the knitting needles and put down under the cast so she could scratch herself because she itched so badly. We really tried to take the best care of her. I was just so thankful to have my sister all in one piece. It was really a strange thing when she got up after having been on her back for so long. She looked about three inches taller than she had when she had first gotten hurt. Then they put her in a body brace which was very, very uncomfortable for her. Now, by this time my mother had gone to Oregon, taking Hal with her to join Daddy. Virginia and I, along with Paul, went to Utah. Paul had always bragged about what a gorgeous place Utah was. We missed Arizona. We missed the people and their carefree way of life in Arizona. And the people in Utah seemed awfully stuffy and strict to us, especially Paul’s mother. She was very, very critical of everyone and she expected me to be something that I was not. It was hard for me. I tried to please her, knowing full well that in pleasing her I would please Paul. Paul, then, put his foot down and said: "There is no pleasing my mother and you just be your old sweet self." He said: "you have the greatest mother in the world. And as far as I am concerned I love her more than I do my own mother. You just listen to the things that she taught you and be like you've always been and not try too hard to please my mother." Virginia and I had to stay with Mother Stoddard for a while. And she was a lovely person in so many ways and I really admire her. She has 19 always been a nice looking lady and very well dressed and I really look up to her, but there were so many things that she would do that surprised us. Our own folks had been so truthful, and yet Mother Stoddard was supposed to be so religious and she would tell little stories that weren't true on the phone and it was very disturbing to us because our folks had been very, very truthful. We knew that Mother would never say anything that wasn't absolutely right. But in retrospect, I know that Mother Stoddard put herself out for us. We were two young girls that she didn't know moving into her home and she was very kind to us in so many ways. I have loved her throughout her life and my life. By this time I was very, very large with David. I was in my seventh month of pregnancy. I had gotten large so quickly. Mother Stoddard had made me a grey cape to wear and she thought it would kind of camouflage my looks a little bit. We went to Church one time and she whispered in her very loud voice: "Margie, hold your stomach in," which, of course, was impossible. So the next Sunday I did not get ready for Church and she came in and asked me why I was not getting ready and I said: "I don't want to embarrass you the way I look," and of course, she said that was nonsense and I should come on and go. But Mother Stoddard was a very domineering lady. She hurt my feelings in so many ways. On the other hand, Dad Stoddard was the perfect man. We adored him. He was so kind and so good and we just cherished his friendship, and the time we spent with him. He was always thinking of the other person. He was very charitable in his thoughts as well as his deeds. I truly loved Dad Stoddard. Finally, Paul found a home for us and we moved to Morgan. It was a darling little apartment but it just had one bedroom so Virginia was reduced to sleeping on the couch in the living room. But we'd get up in the morning and pretty the living room up and we had a lot of 20 fun. There was only one doctor in Morgan. His name was Mark Abbott. I should have known when I went in to visit him the first time that he would not be a good doctor because the outside waiting room was not very clean and it did upset me but there was no place else to go so I doctored with him. David was born on the 29th of August and it was very, very hot and Paul was working, and we had to call him from his work. He came home and I was having labor pains just terribly bad and he went in and took a shower and then he shaved and I said: "Paul, what are you doing? I'm dying. I've got to get to the hospital!" And he said: "Well, I can't look ratty when I see my son for the first time, so I want to put on my suit and look really nice." So he drove me to the hospital. He had made a bed for me in the back of the car. I thought we'd never get there. We had to go as far as Coalville, and that's the hospital David was born in. And I shall never forget the first time I saw David. He was the most beautiful baby in the world. He was all pink and white. And they turned him on his side and he looked right in my eyes and I was so delighted. He was just a perfect baby. In those days, women stayed in the hospital for ten days. And so in that length of time, Paul moved us from Morgan into our home in Farmington, which he had bought from Phoebe Welling. He was in the midst of a big mess when he drove me home from the hospital because he was lathing the walls and there was only one clean room and that was the bedroom. Virginia was working every day and there was no one to care for me and I had had quite a bad birth and was having a lot of female problems even at that time. Also, we didn't have running water in our part of the house yet, so I carried large buckets of water. Needless to say, that caused a lot of damage to my body. Shortly after, Paul was drafted into the Army. That was a sad day for us because we knew that we would 21 be parted and didn't know what to expect, and he really dreaded going. But after he left, Virginia and I stayed on the farm in our little apartment. By that time it was fixed up very nicely and we were snug in the house. But Paul was stationed in Arcadia, California, and he wanted me to come over, so I loaded the baby in the back of the car and left Virginia alone because she was working, and I drove over to California to see Paul. I stopped to see Letha on the way and I got a lot of good advice from her, and then I ended up in Arcadia. I got to see Verdell quite a bit. Verdell and Herbert were so kind to us and we'd go over for Sunday dinners quite often and she'd have a fried chicken and all the things that Paul and I so loved. We really did enjoy them. Verdell and Herbert both just adored Paul and he loved them very much. We got a little house in the back of a large house while we were in Arcadia. And these were the strangest people. I shall never forget them. The woman collected string and papers and I went up to the back porch to the door to pay the rent and you could hardly open the door because it was so crowded with strings and papers and magazines and things she had saved. I don't think she ever in her life had thrown anything out. She was a good landlady, however, and she did like us. But when we rented this apartment or this little house, it was filled with antique furniture. It was just gorgeous. It was a darling little apartment, but she said that that had been her mother and father's home and her mother had died and we could rent if we did not change the furniture one bit. She wanted it just as her mother had left it, so I never felt quite like it was my apartment. There was a lot I would like to have done with it. We were so poor and I was looking for a job and Paul wanted to invite one of his army buddies with him to come to the house for dinner. I said: "But, Paul, we haven’t any groceries. What can we feed them?" He said: "Oh, you just leave that to 22 me. You set the table and I’ll take care of the dinner." So I did have some lovely linens and silverware and china and I set a beautiful table and being in California I had a gorgeous flower centerpiece. So when he came home, he told this couple--he brought them with him, and I had not prepared a thing because I didn't have anything—and Paul said: "Now we are going to do something very unusual tonight. We are going to have pancakes. I just love pancakes and so does Margie. And I can make such terrific pancakes, so everyone be seated and we'll have pancakes." So that's what we did and I can't remember of a more enjoyable evening. He was just so fun. And we had a piano in the apartment and Paul could play somewhat and we sat around the piano and sang songs and it was just very, very enjoyable. We had many good friends that were in the army and I rather enjoyed army life, although I was frightened at the time that he might have to go overseas. Then we moved to Alhambra, California, and mother was having trouble with her eyes, so Virginia came--we rented the house in Farmington and Virginia went to Oregon. My sweet mother had come to Alhambra to have her eyes operated on and after the surgery she just had a small recuperating time and I got pregnant with Carole. So instead of me taking care of mother as I wanted to do, she ended up taking care of me. I had a dreadful time. The doctor had told me I should never get pregnant again. So when I went to the doctor and she told me that I was pregnant, she told me, "I feel that you should abort. You will never be able to carry this baby to term, and I doubt that you could live through it yourself." So I went home and told Mother and Paul and I said, "I feel I should listen to the doctor," and again Paul was just horrified by my behavior, and he said to my mother, "I think that we should make it a matter of prayer, don't you mother?" This really infuriated me. I thought, "It's my body, my life, I have 23 my cute little son, so why should I take a chance on losing my own life and never raising my son," and I really resented it. But anyhow, he insisted that we all kneel in prayer, and now to give a faith-promoting story I should say that when we got up I thought that they were right. However, that was not the way it was. I felt Mother and Paul were dead wrong and I should listen to my doctor, and I was furious. But that was the decision and so I spent about the first five months of my pregnancy in bed, Mother and Virginia waiting on me and taking care of David and I was miserable all the while. Then Paul was sent back East. The three of us, along with David, moved to Grants Pass to be with Daddy again. The doctor said if we stopped along the way when I got tired so I could rest it would be OK to go. We made a bed in the back of the car. So Virginia drove and I think it took us three days from Los Angeles to Grants Pass. It was good to be around Dad again and our family. Jack and Jean were there and their family and Dorothy, and so it was wonderful to be around our loved ones once again. I rented a little duplex in town and I lived next door to a girl whose husband was in the Marines and she had a little daughter and a son and we spent some enjoyable times together. I got very well acquainted with the mailman. He would deliver letters from Paul and he was usually as excited as I was when I got a letter because I would be out there each day waiting for him to come. Also the iceman, we used to have an icebox and the iceman would come and deliver and he was so concerned and so worried about me living alone, knowing my husband was in the service. He worried because I was so large and I went ten months rather than nine and so I was just huge. The day Carole was born I had to arrange with the girl next door to take care of David because Virginia was working and Mother and Dad were out of town, and so I had no one to take me to 24 the hospital or to take care of my little boy. So this Juanita generously said that she would take care of David and she would get in touch with my folks, so I drove myself to the hospital and I had to stop several times because I'd be having contractions and I was just miserable. But finally, I did get to the hospital and into the entrance hall and the iceman was there. He was so happy to see that I had made it and everything. So the girls at the desk were asking me to fill out some forms. They wouldn't take me upstairs until I did and I was in such pain that the iceman got so angry he said, "You go on up and take her up and I will fill these papers out. I will be responsible for her,” so I’ve always kidded Carole about the iceman. Paul was able to come home on furlough when I was still in the hospital with Carole and he drove us home and we spent some time together, the four of us, and it was really lovely to have him for a week, and then he left, and of course, life went on. It wasn't long after, I think Carole was just a few months old, when Virginia and I decided we had to find work, money was just so scarce and things were so bad, that we decided we would go to Alameda, California, where my Uncle Farrel was living. That's around Oakland, and he had a job at the Naval Air Station, so Virginia and I got jobs down there. I arranged to have my Aunt Ruth take care of Carole. Well, she had a child the age of Carole and she would spend the whole day rocking him and taking care of him. Virginia and I would come to pick Carole up and the room would be dark, the drapes drawn, and poor little Carole would be in her little bed and looking around with those big, sad eyes. Heaven only knows how long she had been there alone. So we felt she wasn't getting the proper attention and I told Ruth that we wouldn't have her take care of Carole anymore, that I would hire another girl, which I did. And this other girl just absolutely adored Carole and David. She gave them 25 such wonderful care. She was married to a service man and she was pregnant and so she just played with the children all the time. I felt they got so much love that it would make me feel good when I went to work because the kids didn't mind staying with her at all. Shortly thereafter, one day, it was on a Sunday and Virginia and I had cooked dinner and I will never forget what we had. We had a nice Sunday roast with carrots and potatoes and I had made some Tollhouse cookies because David just loved Tollhouse cookies. The smell of that was through the house, and we had just set down to eat and the doorbell rang. It was a lady that was delivering telegrams and she had one for me. The telegram was telling us that Paul had been killed. Of course, neither of us could believe it and this little lady was so upset. It was her first telegram that she had ever delivered and that was her job, was to deliver death telegrams. We talked it over, and after we tried to get over the shock of everything. Of course, the little kiddies didn't know what was happening. There were a lot of tears and I just felt like my world had come to a complete halt. But I went to the telegraph office to send a telegram to Mother Stoddard and Dad Stoddard and to Dad and Mother, telling them of this terrible tragedy. Then we, Mother Stoddard got in touch with me and asked me to please come to Utah, so Virginia decided she would take some time off and help me with the children as we went back to Utah. At that time, it was during the war and soldiers were coming back and forth, and so you were never sure that you wouldn't get bumped off the train because the soldiers might need that particular train. Paul was killed on the 28th of September but it was the 1st of October before we even heard about it. So they said that we could get some tickets but we would have to ride on the part of the train that connected and they had milk cans there and we could sit on the milk cans. If we cared 26 to go we could go that way. So we bought our tickets and away we went. Soldiers in those days were very sympathetic and they were very kind to the young women who had families because I guess they felt like they could perhaps be the wives of some of their buddies. Anyhow, they were especially polite and nice to us. They offered to give us their chairs up front and then they sat on the milk cans. And so we arrived in Utah and Dad Stoddard met us and it was a very sorrowful time. And, of course, Mother Stoddard would always make the most of any situation where she would be the center of attention and I have always hated to be the center of attention. But she did invite all of her friends and everyone into the home and we were greeting people constantly. Then we did have a memorial for Paul at the Church and many lovely things were said. Virginia left and went back to her job and I stayed because Mother Stoddard had become very ill. We thought that she had had a heart attack but later on we found that it was gall bladder trouble, but I took care of her and I cared for her for a month, during the month of October. Then I got a telegram from Dorothy and she said that my father was very, very ill and wanted me to come home. And I was terribly sorry to hear that Daddy was ill but I was so glad to leave Utah and be around my own people. So the children and I again boarded a train and we went to Grants Pass. Dorothy met us at the train station and said Dad had improved somewhat since they had sent the telegram, but they felt that I had been in Utah long enough and Dad did want to see me again. So we drove out to Jack's farm where Daddy was staying, and I just could hardly believe my eyes Daddy looked so bad. But he was so thrilled to see us and I'll never forget the joy on his face as he cradled little baby Carole in his arms. He'd take David out to feed the chickens and milk the cows and it was a good environment for David to be in. My 27 people were loving and carefree and they had been under such a strict environment that it was good for them to relax and my mother comforted them and it was just good for all of us to be home again. I decided to buy a place in Grants Pass for us and I told Daddy that I would like he and Mother and Hal to come live with me and maybe later we could get Virginia to come up and we could all live together. So I went out looking one day, Dad and Mother went in to my Aunt Jean's in Grants Pass and I went out looking for a place and I did find one. I thought it would be wonderful for Dad and he was real excited about it, he thought that would be terrific, but when I got home that day I saw the ambulance at the house and when I walked in there was my father lying there on a stretcher. That was the 20th of November and Paul had died only the 28th of September. Those were very bad times for our family. Virginia came up, of course, and then she got a job with Dr. Corthell who was my doctor. So Hal and Mother and Virginia lived with me on this little farm that I bought. It was an acre of land and we really fixed the house up cute and we enjoyed it. Mother was so good to my little children. The fact that Daddy wasn't there just made her love the little kids all the more. They were getting the love and attention that they needed. I had gotten a job at the Triple A office in Grants Pass. It was also the farm labor office and I met some very nice girls in the office that I enjoyed and life went on, and finally we did adjust to being a couple of widows, Mother and I, within a couple of months apart. A lot of things happened in Grants Pass but the most memorable to me, of course, was when I met my husband Glen. We were very involved in the Church and when I met Glen I found out that he was a Mormon but he did not live it as he should. But I thought he was such a doll and just knew that I could change him. We were really attracted to each other and we started 28 going with one another and finally we were married. When we were married, Virginia and Mother moved out to New Hope and Glen moved in with me in this little house that I had bought. But it certainly was not up to his standards, he didn't think that was a grand enough place. In the meantime, I had talked him into becoming a travelling salesman. He had had a real good job at Kaiser-Frazier in Grants Pass but we had met some friends that were travelling and selling and it sounded great to me. I have always been adventuresome and I just decided that that would be loads of fun. We traded our home for a trailer home and we went to Idaho and up into Montana and back to Idaho, and it was there that I became very, very ill. They said that I was going to have to have some major surgery and of course, I wanted to get back to Grants Pass to do that, and so we went back to Grants Pass. We traded our trailer home in on a lovely home on Sunset Drive. It was just a darling house. In fact, when I think of home I usually think of that little place because we had so many nice years there. The children went to school in Grants Pass and we really loved it there, had a lot of good friends. Glen was a fun loving person and he was a very good provider but he never did get interested in the Church and he was very critical of Mormon people because he said that he felt they were a little bit trashy in their appearances and he was a fastidious person. We would go to Church and some of the people hadn't combed their hair just right or shined their shoes just right and he kind of judged them on that. But we did have many good friends in the Church, the Hopkins family and the McFarland’s, and I shouldn’t even start to name them we had so many, and our lives did revolve around the Church and the people in it. We spent a lot of good years there, some not so good. Glen was quite different than I and he put me through the paces as far as keeping the Word of 29 Wisdom and things like that because by this time I did have a testimony of the truthfulness of the Gospel and I wanted to live it but it was very difficult with Glen. I worked for him in his office. We had a trailer sales and a car agency, and we worked together. Then we had some family problems and we decided to move. By that time the children were of college age; Carole was still in high school but David was college; and so we moved to Anchorage, Alaska. I just loved Anchorage. We had so many nice friends up there and it was just a great adventure for me. While I was up there I had my second major surgery and was having a difficult time with my health, but I was able to start working for Peter at the Jonas of Alaska Museum. While I was there, in the summers, Carole and David also worked there, and Glen had a car agency downtown. Then we had the big earthquake in Anchorage. We had a lot of exciting things happen. President Kennedy was President at that time and they almost had World War III while we were up there. I could go on for days telling about Anchorage. I did love it. I loved the Eskimo people, they were so childlike. It was just a good growing, learning period for us. They have a very strong LDS Church there. The people really stick together and it was very enjoyable. Finally, I became manager of a shop. It was called The Fur Tree and I sold expensive furs and jewelry. It was a lovely place and a very fine place for me to work. I enjoyed my bosses and it was fun. David went on his mission while we were living in Anchorage and Carole graduated from high school while we were living in Anchorage. And then Glen became very ill. We took him to the doctor and the doctor said that--Glen went first to the doctor and the doctor told him he was very ill and he would like to speak to Margie, so the doctor called me and I came up to talk with him. He said: "Margie, Glen is dying. He has less than six weeks to live." I just could not 30 believe this because he had been managing his business, and going night and day. He was such a worker. I just could not believe it. And so the doctor said that he had taken some blood chemistry tests and found that Glen just was not going to live. At first I was furious. Then I started believing and thinking maybe something would happen that we could get him to a kidney machine or something, he was having renal failure. So we put him in the hospital in Anchorage, and I went to see him the day after we entered him in the hospital and his face was so puffed out he didn't even look like Glen at all. And he knew that he was seriously ill. So he told me to bring all the papers up to him so he could sign and give me power of attorney to act in his name on anything and also to ask Peter____, my former boss, to come up and notarize his signature. When he got so bad, I was advised to fly him out to Seattle, so I hired a nurse and we took Glen on the plane. It was a commercial-type plane but they allowed him on a stretcher and then he was uncomfortable in that, so the nurse moved him into the seat with his head on my lap. During the plane flight, Glen, being a pilot, he knew that he was in a plane and he kept thinking that I was flying the plane and he was frightened to death. He kept giving me instructions and he was a little delirious. When we got to the Seattle airport an ambulance met us there and they drove us to the hospital in Seattle. The doctors examined Glen and said he was dying, that there was no chance at all for him to live. I just could not accept that, so I pleaded with the doctors to try the kidney machine for him, but there was such a long waiting line for people trying to get on the kidney machine that were more well than Glen, that the doctor was a little reluctant, but I threw a fit out in the hallway and so finally they did agree to let me do this. They put Glen on a kidney machine. However, it didn't do any good and within three weeks he was dead. 31 Glen was a delightful person. I cherish my memories of him, so many of them. He was a good father to the children. Being a stepfather he never felt like that, he felt like he was their very own father. He was very kind and very dear to them. I always said he was a much better Dad than he was a husband, because he put me through the paces many times, although I've always loved him very dearly. We went to Europe together and spent three weeks living like kings and queens. We always drove the fanciest cars and had the nicest clothes and he was a very, very good provider. In so many ways I did love him so much. He was really good to our family. We really missed him when he died. After leaving Seattle, I had his body flown down to El Segundo and then we buried him in Englewood, California. I stayed with his mother for a week or so and I also spent some time with Gwen and Ben (Hopkins) down in San Clemente. They were so good to me. I really enjoyed it. Then I went to Bakersfield. I had bought me a new car and I went to Bakersfield and spent some time at the home of Glen's partner, Bob McBride. They were not there and they had loaned me their home. They had a lovely swimming pool out back and it was a gorgeous home and I should have enjoyed myself, but I was so lonely and felt just dreadful all the while. The kids were wanting me to come back to Utah and I thought that was the place for me, and so I did drive back to Utah. I stayed with Virginia and John (Griffith) for a couple of weeks and I got a job in a car rental agency and really enjoyed my work, but I got the flu. I finally rented a little apartment on 13th South and it was during the winter, I think January, and I got the flu and I was so bad that I was in bed for about three weeks. The doctor finally told me I should get someplace where it was warm to recuperate. He said I had been through too much, he felt I would not get well until I got some sunshine and rest. So, naturally, I 32 thought of Letha. I drove to Kingman and spent a wonderful two weeks, or maybe three, with Letha and I recuperated down there. Then I got a job in Las Vegas and Don and Mary Ashworth helped me move my things into an apartment. I really enjoyed my work. I worked for the Mayflower Transfer Company and I worked out of Nellis Air Force Base. I worked the contracts and it was an enjoyable job. But by that time my son had married Pat Pierson, even before Glen's death he had married her, and she was pregnant with Matthew when Glen died. After Matthew was born they had wanted me to move up to Utah again so I could be around Matthew. I just delighted in that child. He was just everything you would want in a little baby and I just adored him. Being my first grandchild, I was just in heaven when I was holding him. So I did move back to Salt Lake and I decided that Carole and I should live together because she still was not married, although she had been engaged to a boy from Seattle and had broken off the engagement. So we rented a duplex apartment on 30th South. We had a lot of fun while we were there together. It was an enjoyable time. In fact, I just felt like she was a very dear friend as well as a daughter. Erma Erickson came down from Alaska and she moved in with Carole and me in the apartment, and we just had the most fun. We all started dating and we had a hilarious time together. It was a laugh a minute. Erma's the most joyful person to be around. She is just so much fun. She was very, very good for me. In fact, I had gained quite a bit of weight. Erma couldn't believe it when she saw me because I had bleached my hair out and I had gained all this weight. I met her at the airport and she said that she thought I was a middle-aged old woman and fat, fat, fat, and she said: "You are going to take that off right away," and so she put me on a diet and exercise and we started going out dancing and everything. 33 And I began to feel like life was worth living once more. So we stayed quite a while together. Erma got a job at the University of Utah as did Carole and I. We really enjoyed it. Then Erma decided she was going to move. Her mother was very ill and she had to go back to Grants Pass. That left Carole and me, and she said: "This is a good time to split up. I hate to keep telling people I still live with my Mommy," and she said: "I'd love to get an apartment up on the Avenues." Well, I was just heartsick when they left because there I was left alone with this great big apartment. One day Carole was talking to me and she said: "Mother, I'd just love you to move up on the Avenues," and I said: "Well, I thought you were trying to get away from me." She said: "No, that's not the point. I just didn't want to live with you, but it would be fun if you were a neighbor and lived quite close." I was so discontent living alone that I decided that I would. I went looking for an apartment. I found a darling apartment up on the Avenues and I had some carpeting put in the living room and my furniture had arrived and I just decorated it really cute. It was good being a neighbor of Carole’s and we did quite a bit of double dating together during this time and had lots of fun. And I really got to know my daughter. It’s strange being a mother when a daughter is younger and then an adult daughter. I loved her when she was young but I think I really appreciate her more as an older person. We really had some delightful times. David and Pat by that time had Michael, and Pat had gotten pregnant with Allison. Pat is an absolutely perfect daughter-in-law; she was always so considerate of me. She worried about me being alone, she worried about Carole being alone, and she and David were kind of the head of the house, so to speak. If we had any problems, of course, we'd go over to them. Pat's always had a way of making you feel better. She's such a positive person and I 34 just adore her. She's a perfect wife for David and a perfect mother for the children. It was during this time that Carole met Gary. I liked him immediately. We used to have fun. They would come over to visit me and I could see that Carole really liked him very much. I was dating a fellow called Fred and I used to go to the dances at the Terrace. I got to know some people that were just so nice, married couples as well as single people. We kind of formed a club, a lot of people from the University of Utah, and we'd go to the dances every Tuesday night. And it was there that I met Newel. I just knew the minute I met him that I’d like him very much. He was just a comfortable, special person. He told me who he was, and told me about his relatives here in Salt Lake, and so I wasn't a bit fearful with him as I had been with some of the men. When you are out and single you have to be most careful. At times I have become a little frightened. I'd never date anyone as soon as I met them, ever. I had to know them very well before I would even consider dating them. But Newel asked me that night. He said that he had tickets to a Shakespearian play up at the University of Utah and he would like to take me, and for some reason I said yes. I just really wanted to go with him. Then, during the week I thought: "Oh, he is so cute he probably won’t call. It's just too good to be true to find someone so nice." So about Thursday night he called and said he wanted to check in with me and confirm our date. I couldn't even remember his last name, I called him Jorgenson, and found out it was Josephson. And instead of saying “Newel" I said "Noel." And so he must have thought I was a jerk. We started dating and from that time on he didn't see anyone else nor did I. We were perfectly content with each other and we spent every hour that we could together. When we'd get off work we'd meet for dinner and go to the movies, or go for a ride, or go for a walk or something. I had never 35 liked Salt Lake too much and he had been born and raised here, so he told me all about Salt Lake and the history of it and took me to different places and I really learned to love it here. So it wasn't long until we were talking of marriage. Pat was pregnant with Allison and I was going to take care of her. I had asked for some time off work so I could take care of Pat and my boss said that would be fine for me to take off. So Allison was born and David gave me a call and said he wanted me to come up to the hospital that night. I said, "David, would you mind if I brought someone with me?" He had met Newel once or twice. He said no, that would be fine, and wanted to know if it was Newel, and I said yes, and he said, "Oh that would be great." We went up to the hospital and saw that little Allison and she was a doll. Pat looked so good and so healthy and the baby was absolutely beautiful and I was really excited. Going home that evening after the hospital I said, "Well, that was really something. Only grandparents get to go in and we sneaked you in as Allison's grandpa." He said, "I would really love to make that official." I said, "Are you kidding me?" He said, "No, not at all. I really would." I said we hadn't known each other that long, and he said yes, that was true, we hadn't, but he said that he'd really like to marry me and so I said, "Well, I would like to marry you, too. That would really be nice. But we will have to check with our friends and relatives. This has happened so quickly I don't know what they'll think." So when I got home I called Pat and because I had promised to take care of Pat, of course, she had sisters living here in town and they could do it, but I had promised and so I told Pat that Newel and I had been thinking about getting married and what did she think, did she think David would be mad, and she said no, she didn't think so. She said, "He's a real nice fellow and we want to see you happy and I'll tell David." So then David came in 36 and we talked with David and he thought that was just grand. I said I was going to get married and he said: "Who to?" I said, "Newel," and he said, "Well, that is great." However, we did have more calls to make. I called Virginia and Virginia had never met Newel and she was really a little upset because it had all happened so quickly. I had just been up at Christmastime and told her that I didn't think that I would ever remarry because I just couldn't find anyone that I could feel good about. I think that she was just shocked that I was ready to marry this fellow and I didn't know him that well, she thought. So finally she did give us her blessing but she did want to Meet Newel. And then I called Grandma Stoddard and told her and she was real sweet about it. She had never particularly liked Glen, and when I told her about Newel, she asked some questions and I said he was George Q. Cannon's great grandson and, oh boy, that did it with her. So she just thought that would be wonderful. So she wished us the best of luck. And then we called Newel's brother and it was really funny, our conversation. He said, "Are you the lady that works at the Church offices?" and I said, "No." "Well, are you the lady that does this? Or are you the lady that does that?" So I could tell from that that Newel had done plenty of dating. But I told him no, I was none of those. So we chatted over the telephone. It sounded just like chatting with Newel his voice sounded just the same to me. I had called Carole and I told her and she was really excited because she liked Newel. We had had dinner together and she really liked him. I had talked to her about Newel. She thought it would be great. So I asked her if they would drive over to Elko with us and stand up with us, and they said yes, both of them. So we took off, I guess it was real early on Saturday morning and drove over and we had to be there by 1:00 o'clock or we couldn't get married, and so we were really clipping 37 right along. They stood up with us and the ceremony we had was almost laughable. It was the Justice of the Peace, and he was so serious. I wasn't a bit scared. I was so relaxed, I just felt like I was doing the right thing, but I looked over at Newel and he was just so pale and he was holding my hand so tight he was about to break it off. But, anyhow, he soon got over that and Carole and Gary came back to Salt Lake and Newel and I stayed in a motel there in Elko. We just had an enjoyable time for two or three days and then we came back to Salt Lake and out to Pat's and I did help her a little bit before I had to go back to work. And the people at work were just so amazed that I had gotten married. I just walked in with my ring on and it took them a little while to notice it even, and then, of course, I got a lot of attention. It was real cute. Newel and I stayed at the little apartment for about three months. He had a trailer home and we rented it out to some people, and then we stayed at the apartment. Then we decided we wanted to get into a home and so we bought our first home at 2770 East 3185 South. We really settled in as an old married couple. It was just so comfortable with Newel. I have just always felt very, very comfortable with him. The Ward we were in was lovely and we enjoyed the people there. We had some nice years there. And the thing I have loved most about Newel is that he accepted my family so readily and the grandchildren all love him more than they love me. He is just the perfect grandpa, whereas I sometimes am not the perfect grandma. I try to be, but I have never been as good with children as Newel. Carole and Gary got married and they started having a family and it was just real fun to see each of them born. Pat and David have added to their family and at this point in time David and Pat have six children and Carole and Gary have four; little Bradley was born on the 26th of June. So this is where I am at the time of my 60th year. 38