Oral History Program Bernice Tooks Interviewed by Kenya Beard 10 March 1998 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Bernice Tooks Interviewed by Kenya Beard 10 March 1998 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed Kelley Evans, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Tooks, Bernice, an oral history by Kenya Beards, 10 March 1998, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Bernice Tooks. The interview was conducted on March 10, 1998, by Kenya Beard. Tooks discusses her life and the experiences she’s had throughout it. KB: As you begin if you could state your name, age and birth date. BT: My name is Bernice Tooks. My age is 68. I'll be 69 this year, 1998. Nine twenty-nine, twenty-nine. KB: Where were you born? BT: I was born in a small town in Stevens, Arkansas in the Aushitaw County, a little town way down in the valley. KB: If you could begin by basically telling me a little bit about yourself. If you could introduce some of the hardships that you have endured, or maybe some fond memories that you have of growing up. BT: Well, my mother was the mother of six children, six girls. She raised us all by herself. We had a rough time. We had very little food. And I guess that's why I'm so appreciative now of little things. 'Cause we had an outdoor toilet, we didn't have things that the kids have today. Like a fence, or toilet tissue in the bathroom, we never had that. For Christmas, I got a doll, candy, an apple and an orange. Maybe a piece that my mom had brought from an old white lady. I remember my first over coat. She gave the lady three dollars for it. I was so proud. And my aunt gave me an old white skirt, pleated skirt. I thought I was really dressed up that Christmas. And, well, later on when I was thirteen, I use to go around and I sit around women much older than me all the time. And I would do these people laundry, and they nicknamed me "Miss Lady." And maybe they would give me some material to 1 have me a dress made. That's most of the way I got my clothes. I guess I was about 15, when I met my father. He gave me one dollar and a half, and I never will forget that. I thought that was a whole lot of money. My daddy gave me a dollar and a half. And then after then, I married at an early age, 16. I was trying to get away from home. I guess my first husband and I lived together six months. I could have had it annulled but I didn't know that. But in between this time I was going in and out of school because I got a scholarship from my church, Sunday school. I was always active in Sunday School. I loved Sunday school up until today. My mother worked in a hotel. And my tuition was seventy-eight dollars a month, and that was so much for her. So when I got about — going into a freshman in college, I thought I was grown, I quit school. KB: What had you planned on majoring in? BT: I didn't have no special — KB: Just going to get an education? BT: I was going to satisfy my mother, I really wasn't interested in school. I wanted to get grown. Which I hated that I didn't go. But my mother, she educated three of my sisters. Two of them are now still teaching. Last year before last one of them was forced to resign. She had taught for 22 years. But she lost her sight. So she was forced. But two of them are still teaching. One is teaching now in Arkansas State. She had retired and they had offered her this job, and she said that she just couldn't turn down the money. And she came out of retirement and she's teaching. After that, I came back home, for a little while. And I got married again, and we didn't make and I came to Ogden, Utah in the fifties. And — he found out where I was. KB: Your second husband? 2 BT: Yea, so that, that's how I wound up in California. He was living in California then. And he came up. He thought he was going to get me but I hid. He called me at 1:30 in the morning and he had made it back to Salt Lake said, " You don't get on that bus, today at 4:30, I'm coming back to kill you!" KB: Was he serious? BT: He was serious. So I was on that bus. I never will forget when I got there in the evening he was still at work. I went over to his aunt's, that's where he was living. And when he got off of work, he didn't have a car then. He was illiterate, guy. Their whole family. When they got to the second or third-grade, they dropped out of school. And he couldn't read or write. But he could get over to San Francisco. But marking posts every block he goes. He took me, when he got home he borrowed his uncle's car. He took me way out, now I know where it is, San Mateo, California. Nothing but surrounded but water, the big ocean. And he said that he was going to kill me. KB: What?? BT: And I begged and I begged. So he was a very violent person. KB: How did you get away from that? BT: Well my aunt and my uncle and my mama had sent me all over the world trying to get rid of him, you know, through them years. When I was in San Francisco I made up my mind all I wanted was a change of clothes. I had these old-fashioned make-up cases, got the little handle on the top. I put me some under clothes in there, and went to Oakland. I stayed in Oakland for 47 years. KB: Really? What did you do in Oakland? 3 BT: I got a live-in job when I went over. This was way out from Oakland, and I had to catch the Greyhound bus out there. You know this little old country girl, I was so wild! I lived there whenever they didn't go out of town. He was a car racer, who I was working for. There was the head of the house. I guess I worked there about two years. I found me a boyfriend and I started to gain weight. I didn't know what had happened to me. I went to my doctor again, because I was having the same thing that Teresa is having now. When your period is on, you cramp a lot. He stopped my cramps. Next thing I knew I was pregnant with Sheree. I didn't know what was happening. I kept gaining weight, gaining weight. I went back to him and he said, "You're six weeks pregnant." I said well I'm a single woman. You know. Then he said, "What you want to do about it?" Well at that time, if you didn't want a child you didn't have to have it. I have always wanted something that was mine. I always felt like I wasn't loved. That before my mom married my other sister’s father. I was nine year olds when she married him. I was from pillow to post. Other aunts didn't want to be bothered with me. But my mom, she was working live in another town, and they didn't have children. I had to deal with them. They would say, "My daddy's going to buy me this, my daddy's going to buy me that." You know. I always felt that I wasn't loved. When she married and started having kids, they were much lighter than me. And at that time it was so much prejudice even in school. If you were dark you had a rough time. And they had long hair, and they were much prettier than me. And I just felt like I was in this world by myself. I thanked the Lord softly too, for letting me get pregnant because I was going on 27 years old. All my first cousins my age didn't have children. I had no fun. That slowed me down. Never could drink. I would go dancing and try to keep up with the crowd. One drink, you know, did me in. Then when I got with Sheree, and then two years later here 4 comes Teresa! I had quit this guy. I was thinking he was going to marry me. I married Claude and Orlando's father. We lived together at my aunts for ten years. All this time I was thinking he was going to marry me. He never married me. I was probably the first woman that really gave him a child. Then I guess when Orlando was about two years old we were buying a house in Oakland. He left there with these four kids and I was working, making about a dollar thirty-five an hour. And at that time one-thirty five was pretty good money. But it wasn't enough for me to keep my home. The house note was one-hundred and forty-four a month. That included your insurance. So what I did I got two months behind on my house note. I got my income check, and I paid three months house note, and I turned it in. They wouldn't accept it and they mailed the check back. So they had foreclosed the house. This is where I started saving some money. When I moved I had a good bank account because I stayed in that house one year without paying a dime. Then I get in with housing with four kids, I was making nine dollars an hour now because I was working in a motel. I was working there for thirteen years. I got in this housing, paying ninety-seven dollars a month for a three bedroom. My kids grew up. The first one turned to drugs, which was Sheree. Then it was Teresa, then it was, and then it just went on down the line. KB: How did that make you feel? BT: Oh man! I almost went out of my mind! I was giving them everything a poor woman could give a child. I never bought me anything, you know? It was all for them. My credit was good, I had a Visa, MasterCard, you name it. Anything the children wanted I got it for them. Then I was in this car accident. And the insurance company sent me five-thousand dollars, right in December. They (kids) named it, I got it. Then Sheree went into the Air 5 Force, thank the Lord! That eased my pain. Then Teresa got with a gang, they started using drugs. Then finally she went into the Air Force. Ok, I don't have too much to worry about now! I just had the two boys at home. Claude got a job with the transportation department. Then he decided that he wanted to try it. That hurt because he had anything that he wanted. He had such a good job. He would have three and four checks in his billfold because every Friday they got paid. He had money in the bank so he would never go and cash them, of the young men would come to him and borrow his money. He still would give me about two-hundred a month. You know, I bought all the food. Anyway, Claude got married. Praise the Lord!! I said that she's not the person for you. I have never tried to keep anyone from my kids. I said but I've been with her. She drove a bus. If she was going way out, she would say, "Tooks come on with me." I knew that that wasn't for him." Because he had a good start doing better without her. He married her and they both got on drugs. I came over here to Jamar's birth. KB: Who's Jamar? BT: He Sheree's baby. She had showed him where he could triple his money by selling drugs. Out of my house. If you sell, you get to tasting and then before anything you get to using. Right then he had lost about 6-7 months, he's right back with her. One Saturday, I was going on vacation. They had taken me to breakfast at this church thing. And then after we left from there, because I was coming over her for vacation. After we left there, because we decided we were going to go to everybody's house. I changed into casual clothes because we were going to go to the mall. We went to the mall. From 2 o'clock to 7 o'clock those women did not know where I was. What had happened, I went to go pay my bills. My Mervyns bill. Because I knew I was going to be leaving out of here 6 tomorrow with Sheree because she had just come back from Japan. I kept Jamar until she came back from TDY. Then I got so sick in that store. Finally, I made it to a banister and my purse was wide open. Travelers’ Checks and cash money. When I was going through my change of life, I didn't perspire like a lot of women did, but this particular day you could wring my blouse out. What I had had was a light stroke. I had people looking at me. I guess they thought I was on drugs. I continued to beg them for help. So finally these two men saw my purse. They were sitting there waiting until I fell out. But I never lost conscience. I said, "Will you please go get a security guard or somebody?" Then they walked off and came back and said that they didn't see anybody. Finally one of the lady's came down. She was a teen-age girl. She said, "Come on we got to go!" She said, "Lady I'll get you some help." She was the only one who saw me. They took me to — it was something like FHP. And they took me to — because they didn't have a doctor. I needed an operation on my heart. They ended up taking me way out of town (Oakland). All the way, traffic was bumper to bumper. The ambulance driver said, "I know a short-cut." I was dying, I was dying. We got the hospital and the doctor said, "This lady has got to be operated on right away." This is going on in the evening. I guess they were searching me for some I.D. They said that they had to get in touch with my children to get permission. I said whatever they have to do, go on and do it because I have a higher doctor. Finally, Sheree done came and they were taking me into the operation room. And I heard them tell her that I wasn't going to make it. I wasn't afraid, I wasn't afraid. But I was sick, so sick. They took x-rays and they discovered that I was bleeding inside of my head. Right today, I have two closed vessels in my head that's why I have real bad headaches, especially when I get upset. I guess two days they had me up asking me all kinds of questions. The 7 only thing I couldn't remember was where I lived. I couldn't remember my address. I could remember my name, my age, you know. After I came out of surgery, I had all these people dressed in white sheets around me. I thought they were trying to kill me. All they were doing was giving me shots. It was amazing how the Lord brought me through that. I was out of there in eight days. Although I didn't have any hair, it was shaved. When I got better Lee and Sheree asked me to come and stay with them. I wasn't going to stay by myself. The kids partied. My church was so nice to me. I came from a church that had over 4,000 members. When I joined this church my friend said, "Why you want to join a big, old church?" I said that there was something for me there. Sure enough I worked in the mission. My pastor never came to see me but his son the assistant pastor came to see me. And the Deacon Bilard came by to see me every Sunday. And the mission came. Every letter that came in the mail had at money in it. It was way more money than I could make in two years! I thank God that I came here because I know my pastor, my church family. I love them and they love me! I just feel good. I don't like Utah, but I feel good. KB: I wanted to ask how you got to be one of the Mothers of our church? BT: I think it was by my age. KB: There was no process. BT: I didn't know I was a mother, until one Sunday Pastor Petty said, "Don't give her communion now." Then the next Sunday, during alter call. Pastor Petty said, "We are going to ask Mother Tooks to give us a prayer." KB: How did you feel when he-- BT: It made me feel good! Honestly, this was the second time that I had prayed in front of so many people. Now I prayed in mission meetings, there was only 20-30 in this group. We 8 had different circles. One night we had a Bible class. Sorrell called me and I came over. She said that she wanted to put me on their program for Wednesday night. I was wondering, "Why?" You know I didn't ask him, but she said I was of age. Mother Harper asked me if I got any of those papers, and I said, "No," She said, "In order to serve communion, you have to sign these papers." She said that my name was on there. She asked where they put my papers. I said, "I don't know?" Ms. Harper and I said that we gonna get the Mother's together go out and get more acquainted and try to get ourselves going. When the Evans was there she was going to do that something. Like the mission. I love to work in the Church. There's nothing to big where I think I wouldn't do it. KB: When you were talking about your children and their drug history, did you feel that you failed as a mother? BT: Uh-Uh. I gave up so much of my young life for them. I know that no man after Orlando and Claude's father left, I never let no man come in there before my children. If we had a dinner date or something afterwards we would go to a hotel and it was over. They never came to my house. Like today, my children got a lot of respect for me. Sometimes if they swear around me they will say, "Oh mama I'm sorry." Through all of those things, they still have a lot of respect for me, because I had respect for them. KB: Did you ever re-marry? BT: Uh-Uh. I had lots of opportunities to. KB: I noticed that you said you liked to work. Is that something that you wanted to do or were you made to do? You just wanted to work? BT: Yea. I've always been a — I'm a nervous person. I could go to my sister’s house and her kitchen is all torn down. I will start cleaning up her kitchen. I just wanted my work to be 9 appreciated. It really bugged me when I had to come back here (Sheree's house). I scrub her floors and— KB: You're just a neat person. You like to keep things in order? BT: Yea, yea. My mother was a poor house keeper. Sometimes I look back. Maybe she was too worried and upset plus she was going through a change of life. Then this one lady, really hurt my mother here in Ogden. So and so took so and so's man. But he wanted to go anyway, and she couldn't take it, this lady encourages it. This hurt my mother very badly. Now they have children. He would get her pregnant and run back to Mama. This is where I know that I have found Christ because I use to think I hated that woman. When my sisters were too small to know what really happened, now my sister next to me, she knows what happened. But I saw what happened. I remember it to this day. I can't you that I don't think about or feel about her like I used to. When her birthday gets here, I got to buy her something. I buy her things that I don't think her own children buy her. When she introduces me she introduces me as her daughter. KB: You just about told me everything. I don't know what to ask. Do you remember your first job? BT: I worked at a hotel where my mother was working. But I think I was about 12. I had a different shift. My mother never had time to teach me how to cook. After then, I worked the evening shift. There was this lady that stayed out in the country. White lady, she couldn't drive. She would send her husband over. They were rich. He would pick me up at the Black man's store every Friday morning and bring me back Sunday morning. That was pretty good pay, twelve dollars a week. That was good money. Plus she gave me all kinds of free butter and milk. They lived on a farm. 10 KB: Do you like to cook? BT: Yea, at times when I feel like it. That's how I would get my money to pay for the building fund. I'm selling cake for twelve dollars apiece, starting today, then I start doing two a day and start putting them in the freezer. You've got to have patience in cooking, sometimes I don't. KB: To finalize the interview, is there fond memory that you have, anything, any kind of experience that just sticks out in your head that you like to remember? BT: I like to remember my children being young. How I used to really enjoy them. I mean I still enjoy them now. Like on Thanksgiving or Christmas, they all are here. Or they all are wherever I be. They enjoy it. That's about the only thing, other than I was born up in the church. In the A.M.E. church and I had always wanted to be a Baptist. But back then if you were raised as one denomination you had to be that. I used to go to New Zion. They were in the Legion then. Then we used to go to Embry Chapel. When I was in San Francisco, I've never heard of Methodist churches. But one Sunday I went to this one Baptist church, and I was an usher there. Then when the boy's father and I started living together. It was ok to be a member of the church but it was not ok because I was on the usher board and I had to stop. So I did. I stopped ushering. I didn't stop going to church. Then I started falling in my Word and I stopped going to church. Then my mother died in 1980. This was when I really fell. I had nobody to turn to. She died in March. Then one day came, and I was going to church and I said that this was one Sunday that I was going to dedicate my life back to God, what I grew up with. That was when I joined the 4,000 member church. I dedicated that to my mother. I felt that I got God on my side. I know I can make it. They said nobody is trying to get to heaven but old people. That's not true (laughing). I'm not 11 where I should be but thank God I'm not where I used to be! I love to help people. I love to put a smile on their face. But I made a lot of mistakes in my life. But I think that the Lord has forgiven me. When I got these children with no husband, I didn't have to have them. I could have did like some of my friends. I thank God that I didn't have them aborted. KB: The majority of your friends had abortions? BT: Uh-Uh. Yep sure did. My sisters almost buried me. They got children but they were all married then they look at my life. Then I was on the welfare. I was on there for about three months at the most. I got out there and worked. I was so proud to get out there on my own. They were excited about Sheree, and then come Claude and Orlando and Teresa and they buried me. You see we can't judge a person, never. Like today, one of my sister's daughters went with the Carpenters boy, Annette. They are doing ok. But her other two? Then Michelle, my niece, she had a little boy out of wedlock. I been married twice. That's one thing that I did in a way, I wish I would have gotten married. The reason why I didn't was because the boys didn't want me to. I had another experience when they started school. Different names. That hurt me. You know kids are very evil. "Why is your name Tooty-dooty- and your brother’s name is Sooty-sooty." They didn't know how to explain. I begged Him (Christ) to forgive me for all my wrongness, and I do this every day. I guess people think I'm crazy. I'm not I'm talking to the Lord. KB: Do you think that if you would've gone to school, you would have had your children? BT: I don't think so. I have always loved children. I married at an early age. I wasn't like my cousins. They had relationships with guys when we were coming up. I was scared because my mother always taught me. My problem was my mom. She was in high-school and my father's wife had died. He had two boys. But my mom was just 18, when she got 12 with him, with me. She always told me that the first time that you have sex with a guy. No she didn't say sex, she said been with a guy, you get pregnant. This was my fear. But my cousins they weren't afraid. KB: They were having relations all over the place? BT: Yep, because I had gone with them to different places and I would sit down and wait. KB: I would like to thank you for taking this time out to talk with me. BT: You're welcome. You are welcome. 13