Oral History Program Mike Crouch Interviewed by Michael MacKay 16 March 2004 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Mike Crouch Interviewed by Michael MacKay 16 March 2004 Copyright © 2004 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Crouch, Mike, an oral history by Michael MacKay, 16 March 2004, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Leslie Simmons Hodgson 1879-1947 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Michael Crouch, conducted on March 16, 2004 by Michael MacKay. Crouch, the great grandson of architect Leslie Simmons Hodgson, discusses his memories of Hodgson and his experiences with design. Hodgson was an important architect in Ogden during the early part of the 1900s. He is best known for his work on Ogden High School, the City/County building, and the Egyptian Theater. This interview was part of MacKay’s senior thesis for the Weber State University History Department. MM: I'm Michael MacKay, and today is March 16 of 2004, and I'm here with Michael Crouch who is the great grandson of Leslie Hodgson, and his mother is Phyllis Crouch, who is the daughter of Norma Hodgson who is Leslie's second oldest daughter, and we're going to do an interview now. So, Michael what is your interest in Leslie Hodgson? MC: I've always kind of felt like I had an interest in architecture, and that type of stuff since I was very small, and it's always been interesting to me, and finding out that he was an architect, that made it even more interesting. MM: Yeah. Maybe, first of all, tell us what your occupation is. MC: Actually, right now, I'm a home designer. We draw house plans for people all the way from small entry level homes all the way up to large two story mansions. So... MM: What's the difference between a designer and an architect? 1 MC: An architect will have completed the schooling, passed the internship, passed the exams, and would have a license to practice architecture, and a home designer is able to draw up to a four unit dwelling without an architect stamp. MM: Okay. MC: So, you know, we could draw a single residence, duplex, triplex or four-plex without having the architect's type or stamp. MM: So you would do almost basically the same things, only on a smaller scale? MC: Right, we don't do any commercial projects, just the smaller residential. MM: Oh, okay. MC: I have worked for architects in the past, so we have done some of the commercial type of drafting architecture. MM: Okay, sounds like you have the same experience, anyway. (Laughs) So Leslie Hodgson would be your great-grandfather and with his famous architecture, how would you describe it on a scale of great architecture all the way up, what would you describe his architecture as? MC: I don't know. I was surprised that there was as much interest in his architecture as there was. I had heard when I was little that I had a great grandfather who was the architect of Ogden High and that, but I had never really compared that to any other kind of architecture. I had a guy working for me once who studied architecture, I think in Bozeman, Montana up at the University and he said that one of the sections that they were studying was Leslie Hodgson. I worked with another guy who got his architecture degree back in Kansas, and they had 2 studied Leslie Hodgson and his architecture. So then I started to get a feel for what an influence his architecture had on the profession. MM: Wow, so his architecture actually had quite a bit effect on even architecture today? MC: Right, and not just here locally, not just here in Ogden, but studied, you know, back to Kansas. MM: Wow, that's awesome. I know we're sitting in his office, and he has a picture, the actual or a copy of Ogden High's... MC: Front elevation sheet from the working drawings. MM: Okay, and you got that from Ogden City, right? MC: Right. From the school district. MM: From the school district, okay. And then on the other side of the wall he also has the creed that was on Leslie Hodgson's wall in his architectural firm. What does that creed actually mean? Or why do you have it in your office? MC: Well, once I found out that he was an architect, and I had an interest in that sort of thing, I let my mother know that was of interest to me, so she let me talk to her mom, which was Norma, my grandma Norma, and told her that, you know, if there was any memento or something that was available that I'd be interested in having it, so Norma was nice enough to give this to me. And it's just kind of neat to have something that hung up in his office in our office. You know, we don't do anything near the scale or the scope that he did, but we still can respect the work that he did. That's neat to be involved in it, even in a small way. 3 MM: Now in consideration of an architect that has, you know... For example, Ogden which is one of the biggest cities in Utah... He has some of the major buildings, like the municipal building, the Forest Service Building, the Bigelow Hotel, Ogden High School, the Egyptian Theater, which are probably the most beautiful architecture in Ogden. They are the most beautiful. Is that—to have that amount of buildings in one city, is that very successful for an architect? MC: Yeah, I would think so. In fact, I read somewhere that he was appointed to be the planner, sort of, for architecture in Ogden, that he was... MM: He was over the education in Ogden...Ogden architecture. MC: Yeah, so he had a real influence on that city standpoint. Yeah, I didn't study a lot of architecture up the U, just the entry level classes, but I think that would be a unique situation where one architect would have so much of an influence, and so many major buildings in a city like that. MM: Now, from a professional standpoint, how great is the architecture...I know he was more of an artist, and his kids considered him an artist. What scale is that, that his is actually art, like Ogden High School? MC: Yeah, I admire his artistic ability or pure architecture of what he does. I'm more probably like McClanahan, those that would do the actual working drawing, make the thing work, given the vision of the architect. That's probably more what I would fit into. I'm not the visionary, you know that sees the scope, but I, you know, appreciate that. I think it's great when somebody can say, "Yeah, this is the concept, this is the overall direction we want ahead," and then you've got people that create the working drawings to make that vision a reality, to put it on 4 paper, which is in itself a staggering feat, you know, how they did everything with graphite pencil on linen, hand-drawn. MM: Right. MC: And we started out doing hand drawing, when I first started drafting, and now we do everything on the computer. But just the hours that it would take to create the drawing is impressive, but his ability for the emphasis on the entry, the repetitive features throughout the balance from one end of the building to the other, the scope and scale, materials, everything is just extremely well thought-out and well planned-out to make a beautiful building. And you need one person that has that idea, that vision. The artist has to become an architect, versus the technical. MM: Right. That's good. I know Lou Homer, which would be your great aunt. She was telling me that they used to spend so much time in his office, because they even had to take the old blue prints and hang them out the window to get them to dry and everything, and just the whole process, it took them a long time, and so it's pretty neat, too. But, one other question is, knowing that you're the great grandson, and it's come down, his legacy has come all the way down to great grandson, could you see that in your family, the pride for who Leslie Hodgson was, as you were growing up? Or even today? MC: The family that I grew up in or the family that I'm involved with now? MM: That you grew up in, your mother and your grandparents? MC: Yeah, I mean I've got some cousins who have some of the other memorabilia, drafting tools, or those sorts of things that have more significance. I think, because of the scope of what he was able to accomplish, artist renderings of 5 some of the buildings that different people in the family have in their possession, they're important to them, because of who he was and what he accomplished. MM: So you and other great grandchildren have mementos. The legacy lives on. That's amazing. I mean, I probably couldn't even tell you who my great grandfather was, you know. So as you were growing up, it was well-known who your grandfather was in the family, and what he did, as a child? MC: Uh huh. MM: Now, what about your children, do they know about Leslie Hodgson? MC: They do, and most of them have other interests. I'm not the least bit musically inclined. You know, I couldn't sing, couldn't play an instrument, but we have five children, and all of them are involved in music, singing, piano, violin. They've just chosen music as something they want to do. And my oldest son wants to be an attorney; my middle son wants to do mechanics, or something, but we do have one daughter, who has an artistic side to her, and she's 10, but she's got a good eye for perspective, and a real interest in art and architectural kinds of things. I think if someone was going to...it would probably be her. MM: That's awesome. Is there anything that you could tell us about Leslie Hodgson that maybe came down through the line that has been a legacy? MC: Actually, I wish I knew more, mostly just stories that my mom told me about having a cabin, some place that he could retreat to, and that he was an the architect on the various buildings, not very much about him per se. MM: Yeah. Well, your mom was only nine when he died. So he was...it was just amazing that he has cabins. That's outstanding. 6 MC: I don't know if anybody knew that. MM: Well, I appreciate you letting me come over and interview. MC: Sure. That was...was that what you needed? MM: Yes, exactly. 7