Oral History Program Byron Geslison Interviewed by Joyce Slye 05 September 1972 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Byron Geslison Interviewed by Joyce Slye 05 September 1972 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Geslison, Byron, an oral history by Joyce Slye, 05 September 1972, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Byron Geslison. The interview was conducted on September 5, 1972, in the Spanish Fork High School Seminary building, by Joyce Slye. Geslison discusses Icelanders coming to Spanish Fork and the religion practiced. He also discusses Icelandic history in great detail. BG: I was born in Spanish Fork. Both of my parents were born in Iceland and spoke the language. My grandmother on my father's side lived next door to us and she spoke almost entirely Icelandic. I learned the Icelandic language by listening to and conversing with my grandmother, especially, but also others in the neighborhood. When I was a boy, most of the people on the east bench were Icelanders and many of them were from Iceland and talked the mother tongue in the native dialect, so I had a good opportunity to hear the pure Icelandic language by those who had learned it as children in their native country. I remember being in our home many times, and also in my grandmother's home and neighbor's homes, visiting with my mother and hearing my mother or grandmother or others talking and they'd slip in into the Icelandic tongue, thinking that, saying something they didn't want me to hear or know about and thinking that I didn't understand, but I did understand and, of course, I didn't let them know that I understood this, because this gave me an opportunity to listen to things that they didn't want me to hear. So, I was able to do eavesdropping and they didn't know that I understood about what they were talking when they would revert to the Icelandic tongue, but the Icelandic tongue is a very interesting language and I can still, back in my mind, hear the voices and language ringing of these old Icelandic people who were our neighbors and friends. I'd like to say this in general of the Icelandic people- they were a 1 very honest people, a very upright people, and I'm really proud to be a descendant of the Icelandic race because of the character that these people had that I saw firsthand, as a boy and since I've grown up. But, it really did make me proud because there were days, even in my life when I wondered whether I was so proud of being an Icelander or not, because whenever we went to town, we were referred to as 'well, there are some of those 'blankety-blank’ Icelanders' and I remember being in more than one fight because of my nationality, because of my parent's nationality. This was common among young people when I grew up. We usually went to town in groups, or at least a couple because we never knew when there would be a fight and we carried into our lives, the fierce pride that the Icelandic people had of their native country, and it was worth fighting for and so, we fight for it. Even though we love America and were Americans, we also fought when people referred meanly to the native land of our forefathers, grandparents and great grandparents. JS: I'm curious. Were these fights just over the fact that you were Icelanders, because I understand that there are several other nationalities in Spanish Fork? BG: There were other nationalities and there likely were problems with other nationalities too. I don't know but what the Danes or Swedes or whoever else might have spoken in a broken tongue weren't made fun of too. But, for instance, my grandmother spoke with a very broken Accent so did most of these old people I was talking about that I knew they were often make fun of by townspeople and especially young people and this we didn't like—making fun of these people that we knew were fine upstanding, good people but were just different and, I guess, funny in their ways to other people. I remember being in school and having the teacher refer to my nationality and perhaps he would do 2 the same thing with others and maybe he was just joking, but to me it was an offense, because, like I say, I had a very fierce pride for the people that I came from. I had heard some of their history and I had heard my people tell about the heroic deed of my forefathers and I just had this pride in them that seemed to me to be worth defending. Now, I don't say that this was a big thing, but we did have it to contend with, but I understand that the older people, I heard them tell of the days before when they first came here, that they were actually in some ways persecuted because of their race, made fun of and actually persecuted. Now, how much of this was in fun and a joke and practical joking, I'm not prepared to say, but I do know that the feeling of the people was that, beginning when they first came, they didn't feel like they were accepted like they should have been among the Mormon community and some of the people, I believe for this reason became lukewarm or even turned away from the Church, thinking that it was the Church, rather than the people. I don't know how much effect that had, and, of course, we can say, 'Well, we should have been stronger and other people stood a lot more persecution than that', but then, I'm sure this is true and I'm sure we need to be strong enough to withstand persecution or even being made fun of for our ways, but these people were strange, they had strange ways, at least compared with the people of this land, but those things they did were good things. For instance, they were people who saved and didn't ever waste things. And, they were sometimes made fun of because of their care in not wasting things, for one thing. They were very industrious. They loved to have nice places and work hard. I don't know that that was an issue but their language, I suppose, and their ways were probably the reasons for being, the attitude that some people had. 3 JS: How much of their characteristics or their traits do you think stem from the fact that they had the Danish rule over Iceland for so many years and the hardships that they suffered under the Danish rule? BG: Well, when Brigham Young sent them here, I think that the only reason that he sent them was that the Danish colony being in Spanish Fork and knowing that Iceland was under the Danish rule, he assumed that this would be a good place for them to come. I don't question for one minute President Young's inspiration, but I do know that there was a strong feeling against the Danes by the Icelandic people because the ruler-ship over them wasn't always too kind and so there wasn't a the best of feelings between the Icelandic people and their Danish rulers. This could well have been part of the problem. I think that it's been a great thing for the people to settle here in Spanish Fork. I believe that, taking it as a whole, it was an inspired thing; however, this particular factor may have been part of the problem. I was in Iceland in 1937 when the Danish Crowned Prince and his wife came through Iceland. He wasn't received like a monarch should have been received. There was a feeling among the Icelandic people that they wanted their own government. They wanted their own independence. They wanted to be free to rule themselves and not be under a kingship. I suppose some of the rules and some of the laws that were enacted -upon them were not to their liking. They're just like American people; they loved their freedom and didn't want to be under the thumb of a foreign nation. So, I suppose it was natural of them to get feelings toward the Danish people because of this. But, I remember being there, I saw it very plainly, that they wanted the proud prince and his wife to know that they wanted to be independent. And I saw it with my own eyes as I saw the Crowned Prince and' his wife disembark and 4 come along the gangplank and to the waiting officials in the car. They had a carpet out, and maybe this sounds like the Icelanders were a hospitable people to do this, they had this carpet out, but the Icelandic delegation walked on the carpet and the Crowned Prince walked on the side. This was their way of telling them that 'We would like to be our own rulers.' And, of course later they did become their own rulers. I think they've done a marvelous job with their own government. They've been under various governments for over centuries, the Norwegian, Danish and Swedish and various others, and when the American government wanted to have that as a base, and England too, before the Americans, in the war, they were very particular to set it up so that they would not become dependent upon either nation. They had this fierce feeling of independence. So, I'm telling you some secrets, I suppose, about the Icelanders, but I can kind of sympathize with their feelings, knowing some of the laws and some of the practices that were having been told these by the Danish government, I can see why they wanted their own government and their own freedom. And that may have been part of the reason over here that there were some difficulties and conflicts. I think the thing that we can learn from it is this, that when anybody of any race or nationality comes among us, or people from another stake or ward or other part of the Church, comes and lives among us, we ought to open our hearts and our homes to them so that they feel truly welcome, not that we're a people that discriminate. I think Latter-day Saint people, of all people, ought to be a brother and sister to everyone. And this wasn't the case in every case. I'm sure there were some fine people that accepted them and many fine people who treated them right but there were enough who didn't that made some pretty unhappy people. 5 JS: I understood that many of the saints that came from Iceland reverted back to their native religion. BG: This is true as I have heard it told. Now, I'm telling from what I've heard people talk, my own family and others, there were families who came for the Gospel and reverted to their old religion. Incidentally, we did have a Church up on the hill here. It's been torn down recently, shouldn't say recently, but in relatively recent times, but, there was a Lutheran Church on the hill up there to which quite a number of Icelandic families would go into. I remember going there to Christmas parties and having a great time at that Lutheran Church. It hasn't been used now for quite a while, but we do still have Icelandic Lutheran families in town, very fine people. JS: I heard a story and I don't know how authentic it is, but someone, and maybe it was you, I forget, told me that this Lutheran minister actually is, in his heart, more LDS than Lutheran, but he couldn't make a living, other than being a minister. BG: I heard this too and I couldn't verify it as fact, but I can say that I've heard the same thing. JS: Another thing I'm curious about—a lot of people have mentioned the Icelanders' thrift and honesty, as compared to, say the Danes, the Welsh and the English. Was this unique, especially or was it because of the hardships they suffered under the Danish rule? BG: I wouldn't say… In saying this, I wouldn't want to imply that the English and the Danish and the other nationalities were not honest or that they were not hard workers and industrious and this kind of thing, but I just say it that they were very definite traits of the 6 Icelandic people. I think that they go back to their homeland. They had to bear making a living with a very fierce competition with a lot of things, with weather, with the ground, the soil, and a very short growing season, with the ocean, so to speak, in reeking a living out of the ocean, gathering, catching fish. The methods that they did have to use to make a living were, generally they were in very fierce competition to these elements. For that reason, I think, part of the reason, at least, they had to develop that quality of industry and hard work, and I don't know of one of these Old Icelandic people that came here, to my knowledge and there may have been some, but I don't know of one of them that wasn't very industrious and thoroughly honest. Now, even as late as 1937, these same traits were still in existence in Iceland, and I don't know and I don't know what the new generations are doing up there, but when I was there and I spent a summer there, at that time, I saw a jail. I could see it from the back window of the home where I lived and I did some inquiry about it, but it wasn't used. There was no reason. This jail was hardly ever used, once in a while a foreigner was put in there, but it just wasn't used. There was no need for it. I found out that, why the Icelanders, generally, on the bench, left their homes open. They did it in Iceland. There was no fear of stealing, of someone coming in and taking something. They just trusted each other and people were honest. They didn't have to worry. I saw the policeman and learned that their main function in Iceland was to direct traffic and to help tourists and this kind of thing. There was very little need for them. Their jails, like I say, were empty. They've never had a standing army. Here's something, as far as I know since they started out as a country. Here was a people in 930 AD when the first parliamentary government was established in the world. Until now, they have never had a standing army. Of course, the Vikings, who 7 were from this same race of people were not the most peaceful people either, but still, they have maintained, even though these modern warriors of ours, they've got by without a standing army. And, about the only uniform people, I guess, with this kind of authority where the policeman, like I say, their functions remain as I've indicated. JS: Well, now, going back to when they came to the United States, what was their reason for leaving, was it an escape or was it the L.D.S. religion? BG: The L.D.S. religion, generally, was the reason. I could…. I suppose my family was typical. They heard the message by the missionaries. We had missionaries who had contact in Copenhagen, Denmark with some Icelandic people and this is how the word got to Iceland, is, more or less, as you know an isolated island up in the North Atlantic and in those days especially was isolated because of the methods of travel. To travel these days, now it's one of the main points in air travel and has been an important point, in those days, it was very much isolated. But, missionaries were sent there, and as I remember, about 200 families, roughly, were converted, and came here and that was the principal reason for them coming was because of the Church. And, there may have been a few who care because friends came and because they'd heard that America was the land of opportunity and wanted to come for that reason. There may have been a few others that were coming for other reasons, but as far as I know, the main drive was because of the Church, and this became the first Icelandic settlement in America— Spanish Fork. There is a monument up on the east bench in Spanish Fork that indicates this, the first Icelandic settlement in the Western Hemisphere. 8 JS: Now, I heard that there was some gossip, maybe this is poor to bring this is in, but….concerning some of the missionaries (LDS) that were in Iceland that had several problems, and I heard from one source that one was even from Spanish Fork. BG: Most of the Icelanders that did go to Iceland were from this area originally. There weren't too many missionaries that went there, but this is apparently true. I have heard that there were certain missionaries that set a bad example up there. Now, in the whole course of missionary work, we know that occasionally we get a bad apple and that one missionary can cause a tremendous lot of damage because of the high calling that he has and the great responsibility that rests upon him as a missionary. Well it just happened that one or two, I don't know how many, one or two I'll say, as far as I know were out of line up there but caused enough damage through what they did, to, because of this being a small nation, to turn many people from Mormonism, or, who might have listened, away from it because of the scandal that was associated with this missionary or missionaries. Now, I remember being in the city of Gawsig before going to Iceland, and a young man, who was the son of a prominent family in the Church who made a mistake there, and, realizing the damage that was done there, in a large city, the city of Gawsig probably had as many people as all of Iceland did; so, you see, it doesn't take only one missionary to sour many, many people from the Church, until they find some other reason to look at it or to investigate it, or turn away. Now, I suppose we can't estimate the severity of misconduct on the part of missionaries. I'm sure, when I was there, I was asked questions, 'Well, what about these missionaries that came and did what they did, so apparently it was true. I'm sure it was; I heard it here, as well as there. I'm sure that untold damage was done in Iceland because of this. 9 JS: And how did it affect the Icelanders or the Saints here that knew about it? BG: Well, I would think about the same as, maybe more so, but another missionary, many other missionaries being sent home, what would you say, dishonorably (We say in the Army dishonorably discharged, but) I've forgotten the term they use in the Church. JS: Dis-fellowshipped is all I've ever heard. BG: Dis-fellowshipped or excommunicated, but I was thinking of dishonorably released or something like that, I suppose. You asked and I think it had greater effect, because here was the Icelanders, all together as a group, living on the east bench, a very close group that worked together and stuck together and because of some feelings of not being fully accepted were all the more pulled together as a people those first few years. As the children and grandchildren began to intermarry then this whole picture changed but for those first years, it was, more or less, a division and the Icelandic people, I think, pretty well kept apart and together and because they were such a close-knit group, I'm sure that this had a tremendous effect upon their little group here, and may have been part of the means too of some of these people turning back to their own religion, their former religion. It's just one of those unfortunate things. Even to this day, we don't have a mission in Iceland. Maybe it could happen to have one if it weren't for one or two missionaries that went there. The out people in Iceland. This was one thing that I was impressed with in being in Iceland in that particular time, at least, was that practically everybody on the island knew everybody else. I mean, it was just amazing to me how they knew each other. It was just a small enough group that the older people knew the families pretty well, and I know that people coming there with Icelandic descent didn't 10 have to ask very many people before somebody could identify the family that their people came from. JS: Now, I also noticed that the Icelanders are really, in fact, they, as opposed to all other nationalities are the only ones that celebrate, say, an Icelandic Day or go back and honor an older heritage. Why have they stuck with this? BG: I think it's because of this feeling of love for this island and this people and the things that were instilled within us as youth has carried over. I try to tell my children, still, the virtues and the values and other things of this country, its people, and try to help them be proud of the people they came from. Now, I suppose this is part of it. I think that Icelanders are unique in this city, by the fact, too, that wherever they go, they usually look up their ancestors in various parts of the world and, I've had this feeling, that as soon as a fellow Icelander finds out that you're an Icelander, it's almost like a couple of Mormons—you're buddies, your fellows right now, you've just broke down the barrier you've had a kinship there that I can't hardly explain only by that term, when Mormons get together. That's about the way Icelanders, the Icelandic people work, and there's kind of, you feel kind of a love and they have an interest in you, they want to find out what family you came through and identify you, you know, by family. I've found that out as I've met people throughout the world in places I've been. JS: You know, I've wondered at the source of their energy. Didn't they have a Centennial in about 1952 and each family? BG: We did and I happened to be with Jack Bearnson, and J. Victor Liefson and Fay Bearnson on the Executive Committee at this celebration and we directed the (suppers) 11 at one end of this celebration and we saw the loyalties and willingness, the energies that were willing to be put forth, the sacrifices, if you want to call them that needed to be done to put on a real nice celebration. I know that, I remember people laughing at us thinking that a handful of Icelanders could put on a celebration, but when we got through there was a different story about it. It was very thoroughly planned out, it was very thoroughly organized to the point where people stood up and took notice and many people said that if we could organize on a community basis like these Icelanders, we could really do things in our community, not that our beloved community doesn't do a lot of fine things, but these comments were often made. We had the Prime Minister of Iceland here, we had a prominent member of the State Department here and one of the high General Authorities here, something that has never, as far as I know, has been known in this celebration in Spanish Fork before. We had a parade put on by the original 30 some odd families, the original 30 families, each one taking full responsibility for a float. Incidentally, there are people who have films, pictures of those. It would be quite a thing to see that with a study such as this, because in the float was depicted many of these find things we've been talking about. Now, we have a little booklet that tells the titles of each of those floats. Have you been given one of those? JS: No, and I surely would like one. BG: Well, I think I can find one for you if you keep after me. I'm sure I've got one somewhere, it might even be in here. We're pretty proud of that celebration that we took part in. Practically every family, well, I'm sure, every family that was given an assignment carried it out, and it was a beautiful display of people accepting and taking responsibility. It was for several days and a beautiful experience. 12 I remember one of the highlights was taking the Prime Minister of Iceland up to see President McKay and sitting in his office with about four or five of us for an hour or two, just conversing, as you do, passing the time of day. And I remember coming out and standing on the steps of the Administration Building and stopping there and having that Icelandic gentleman turn back and point his hand back at the door and saying, 'What a man,' being so impressed, saying that he'd never met such a man in all his life. These kind of experiences were alive, taking him on a tour of welfare square, letting him see what the Latter-Day Saints do for their people and seeing how impressed and how full he became as he saw how we were living, and also the Genealogical Library and various places of interest, pioneer museums, This was part of that celebration, that is, part of the things the celebration brought about and this man is still a fine friend, still communicates with people here. There is quite a communication that goes back and forth between Iceland and this community. I doubt if, thinking others comparatively, in comparison with the size, that the degree of correspondence and communication, I doubt if it could be duplicated anywhere. There's been a very fine…These barriers that existed, I think, are pretty well broken down. The barriers that, perhaps these missionaries caused and the barriers of Mormonism because we've had enough visitors out here from Iceland, high people in many places in Icelandic government and Icelandic circles have come out here to know what kind of people the Mormons and the Icelandic people there are and they've been very impressed and have been very warm in their feelings and admirations concerned. JS: How do you think these younger generations are going to carry on the tradition? 13 BG: Well, I suppose it's going to be through handing it down from father to son, mother to daughter, however, in each generation, the blood lines are to become thinner as the marriage goes on and I don' know how long it can carry on, but we hope that it will be a forever kind of thing because of the binds and ties that we have as a people and, of course, there's some strong ties between us as far as the Church goes, too, although the Icelandic organization is not exclusively L.D.S. In fact, our present leader is not L.D.S. person, but we try to carry that on apart from the Church; however there are factions in that group that are trying to sponsor and further genealogical records, especially family lines. Many Icelandic groups are families that are meeting together for, not only purposes of maintaining the Icelandic ties, but also for genealogic purposes. JS: How about the communications set up with Canadians. Aren't there quite a few Icelandic in Canada? BG: Yes, there are many Icelanders in the Winnipeg area, but our lines of communication there have not been as strong as they were between us and Iceland and I suppose, between them and Iceland. We have not had the ties that, a lot of ties, we have had some. In our celebration, for instance, we had a lady come from the Winnipeg settlement and we had her on one of the programs. We had one of the outstanding tenors that settled up in the Vancouver area that came in and sang for us. We tried to bring in all these different representatives, at leapt, from the different Icelandic groups as far as we could. So, we do have ties with them, but probably not as strong as they might be. JS: Now, let's go back a little bit, to the early Iceland. Maybe you can tell me about some of the people, the first settlers and the first people that were here that you know of. 14 BG: Well, the ones that I remember, of course, was, the first one I think, was my dear grandmother, who was probably the kindest and most warmhearted and honest and hardworking person that I have ever known. I lived with her for the early part of my life. She was a widow and, though she lived next door, she wanted someone to stay with her, and so I just practically lived there and for this reason became, probably closer to her than any of the family. By virtue of this, I got a pretty good basis for the language which made it easy for me to understand the language when I went to Iceland later. And, so, this would be…if all the Icelanders were like her, they1re really great people. But I remember neighbors there, Parley Jonson and his wife Christine, they were both at an advanced age. They were fine, elderly people. They spoke practically exclusively Icelandic and Jon Jonson and Gloria Jonson; we called her that lived across the road. I didn't know Jon so well, although I knew him, but I knew this dear soul we called Gloria, She was kind of a beautiful spirit and beautiful soul. She was an older woman and was crippled with arthritis, but her influence around the neighborhood was very much felt. I remember Robert Reynoldson. He was a fine and wholesome person, as far as I knew him, a very fine man. I know grandfather and grandmother on my mother's side Ami Jonson, (spelled Arni, the American pronunciation is Arni, but Outney is the Icelandic way of saying it) very fine, honest, hardworking industrious people. And my grantmother was well educated, self-educated, she knew Icelandic, Danish and English and, you might say a scholar in these three areas and had quite a library of her own that she accumulated and did a lot of reading and studying on her own. Many of the Icelanders came with books and maybe somebody's already mentioned this library that's now been turned over to the B.Y.U. Most of the homes had a library. You see, the Icelandic 15 people, a lot of this goes back again and I keep referring to the more ancient times, but when the rest of Europe was languishing in the Dark Ages, and even the King of Kings of nations had a sign there, the name of their signet ring, so to speak, because they couldn't use a pen. Yet, up in Iceland, people were very fluent and very literate. It was at this very period when some of their finest eddoes and sagas were written. And every Icelandic boy and girl, being isolated and apart from the world and with very closely-knit home lives, sat around the hearth and the sagas and were read to them, and they became very familiar with them and loved the stories that were in them, and of course, carried the traditions on and learned to read, this way, learn to read. If you want to teach a child to learn to read, just read with him aloud and then he’ll follow along with you. I think this was done a lot and so the people of Iceland became a very literate people and their literature flourished and the people were able to, many people, I think, more people per capita, were able to write and write good things; so that, I found out when I went there, that they had more bookstores in Reykjavik than any city of comparable size as far as could be determined in the world. Many of these people that came here, as I mentioned, that brought fine libraries with them and I remember seeing those as I went around with my mother or grandmother, visiting the various families, and I went in to many of these homes that…these original homes and saw these fine libraries. Well, as I mentioned, these have been turned pretty much over to BYU. I have a few of these choice books in my library that I retained and kept, many fine Scriptures that they had, Bibles, and so on. Well, you were asking me about some of these older people. Bjarni Jonson comes to my mind. He was not a Latter-day Saint, but a fine old gentleman. I had a rich friendship with this fine old gentleman. Halldor Jonson and his wife were 16 probably two of the most spiritual people that I can remember of meeting. I remember going in their home and actually feeling the depths of spirituality in this home. I remember taking a bottle of oil up to Halldor to have him consecrate it for our family, and of witnessing his spirituality that went on with the blessing of this oil. This is just one of the earlier remembrance I remember, too, that this family was very kind to Indian people and they came in amongst us here, they felt right at home in setting up their tents and living on Halldor's property. I remember too, they used to live across, they set up in this, what we called the city land, across the road from our place and I remember meeting many of the old Indians that set up there, and young Indians too. I remember my father talking about playing with these Indian boys out in this city land area. They used to come in and get food from the Saints and the Icelandic people were very good to them and accepted them generally. Thoridur Dedrickson was one of the missionaries that went to Iceland and wrote a book that I think is comparable to the 'Voice of Warning' written by Parley P. Pratt, is it. I have that little copy. It's a very valuable book now and I like to get it out and read it. It's very well written and explains the first principles of the Gospel so well. JS: Now, isn't he responsible for other literary works, too? BG: Yes…I wish more of these names could come back to me. As I remember, Jon Bearnson’s father, Finnbogi and his wife who lived in our neighborhood, very fine, wonderful people. I remember industry, honesty, hard work. And I remember too, them being considered by some of the other people, somewhat different, and odd in their eyes, I suppose, as my grandparents were considered. Siggie Jonson and his wife were two of the older people whom I knew very well and was related to—very kind, loving, 17 wonderful people. I was in their home many times and enjoyed their hospitality. This is one thing that seemed, as I remember, that Icelandic homes, the biggest majority, just opened their home to you and you just felt like one of the family almost. I remember being in many of these homes. Siggie Liefson was another family, he and his wife, and I knew well. I remember he fixed shoes and made shoes. He was Victor Liefson’s father, and his wife, Siggie's wife, who was Victor Liefson’s mother and my grandmother were half-sisters, and we had ties with that family. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of these families. JS: That's fine. It's good to get an idea of some of them known by some of you. BG: This letting then come off of the top of my head without having written them down or without making any special effort to contemplate or to list them I should say. The Marcus Jonson family was also related to us by someone distantly, but a very fine and lovely old couple. I remember them and have had many fine associations with descendants of that family. A continuation of the interview with Mr. Byron Geslison held on September 25, 1972, at the Spanish Fork High School Seminary Building. JS: Brother Geslison, the last time we talked you mentioned genealogy and why it was so easy to trace way back into the Icelandic history. Could you talk to us about that again? BG: Yes. One of the reasons why it was so easy to trace is because the Icelanders made such good records. They were expert penman’s and they delighted in keeping good records and when the rest of Europe was floundering in the dark ages, so to speak, and the kings of Europe were signing their names with their signet rings, Iceland was a literate nation with many literate writers and a nation that was literate. For this reason, the Icelandic records are not only complete, but they are well done. Of course, you need 18 to know a smattering of the Icelandic language to copy these records for genealogical purposes. Some of the records are somewhat faded and the material, the writing is somewhat light, and for this reason, you'll find some areas that are difficult to pick out, but the regular, general run of the records are very well preserved and well done originally. JS: Now, I was curious. I thought, you know, the difference in the naming process might cause some trouble. BG: Yes, now this does cause problems, but the way they kept their records, it’s pretty easy to keep track, make sure that you have the right person because they usually associated them with the place of his birth. If a person went by the same name was from the same place, then they would usually tack another appellation on him that would designate his occupation or something else and you could tell him from somebody of that same name. Of course, we do run into, sometimes, problems like that. We have people that have the same name that lived about the same time and sometime it's a little difficult to trace those down, but the reason I made the statement was because of the excellent records they kept and the accuracy and the preservation that we have of them today. Henry Christensen who is one of the leaders in the Genealogical Program of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who helped microfilm the films up in Iceland and spent a great deal of time over the years in translating and setting up these records for the use of the people, has made a statement that of all the records, the Icelandic records are among the very best, that they've had access to. 19 JS: If you were still in Iceland, if you were from, let's say, the capital city, Reykjavik, how would they record your genealogy, or your name on the genealogy? BG: Well, my father's name was Sigmundur Gislason, as it was pronounced in Iceland Geeslawsone, and he got the name because his father's name, his first name was Gisli, so my father took the first name of my grandfather and added an 'son' on the end of it which made him Gislason, his first name being Sigmundur. Now if I were living in Iceland, my name would be Byron Sigmundsson because I would take the first name of my father and add a 'son' on it. I am Sigmund's son, that’s who I am. So the first name is apparently the important name and the last one tells whose son you are and that’s the whole deal of the last name. Our daughter, with the girl, they use the appellation Gisladoter or Sigmundsdoter instead of son, so you can tell the male from the female a little easier than you can in some of the other countries where it just has an 'son' for everybody. They have a doter for the daughters and a ‘son' for the sons. JS: Can I pursue it just a little bit farther. It's so interesting to me. Now, in the city of Reykjavik, what are there, about 90,000 in the city? BG: I'm not sure now, but the majority of the people live in Reykjavik, the vast majority. Probably 2/3's of the people or at least of them live right there in the capitol city. JS: If that's the case, then, wouldn't there be a lot of Sigmunds in Reykjavik and how could they tell you as the son of a specific Sigmund Gislason? BG: The records would show my place of birth and also my father's and mother's name and, of course, that would make a difference, the father and mother, because my mother was…So if there was somebody by the same name as my father, there is little likelihood 20 that the mother would have the same name as my mother, so this is one6f the different ways to tell. Then, of course, the date of birth and place of birth; now, often, they would list the, actually the house; each house has kind of a name, especially when you get out in the country. A farmhouse has a particular name, almost like a city name and you get that appellation along with, so that that's another distinguishing characteristic so you can tell the difference between the two. Now, like I said before, there are times when this can get somewhat confusing or canes where the fathers and mothers name are exactly the same and then you have to go back to the next generation to trace it and make sure you have the right one. I've had that in working with genealogy. I have had that. I remember one particular name; I remember the name, Jon Arnason back. I found two Jon Arnison and they were both the same name and the same city and for quite a while, I was using the wrong Jon Arnison in tracing my genealogy. Of course, I finally found that it wasn't the right one and had to back up and take the other one, but that can happen. I suppose it happens in any nationality; I've had that happen once to me. JS: That's interesting. You also told us last week, too, that a lot of Icelanders can trace their genealogy back to kings and you mentioned that yours even goes back to men as Harold, the Fair-haired. BG: Yes, I traced my ancestors back, I wish I had brought my, well, I think I have my genealogical book here, one of them. I found, literally, hundreds of kings in my line and one of them is Harold, the Fair-haired was is my 32nd great grandfather. How, Harold, the Fair-haired was a rather oppressive king and he was, more or less, the king, over all the other kingdoms in the area of Norway. He, being oppressive, wanted these kings to do as he wanted and he was trying to favor a woman who he wanted to become his wife 21 in this faction. I won't go into all the details of that, but the tyranny drove these lesser kings to the sea and to Iceland and they, many of them went up there and set up homes, and so many of the people of Iceland can trace their ancestry into the line of kings. And, of course, once you go into that line, then the records have been well kept and you can usually go back to Adam. And, I've seen my lines traced back to Adam through these, once I get into the lines of kings. Another ancestor was Ingolfer Arnason who brought a colony to Vinland del Goda as they call it in Icelandic writings or New Finland. That's the name that they gave this area they came to, Vinland del Goda or New Finland. Leif Erickson and his party had been over here around 1000 A.D. and discovered America, long…five hundred years before Columbus, and this is in the writings of the Icelandic historian at that time, so there is no question about. Then, just a few years later, I'm not sure about the year, but possibly a thousand three or four, but Ingolfer Arnason brought a party, of I understand, about 200 people and Pet up a colony in America and the first white child that was born that we know about, of course, except the Nephites, was born in this colony. But, they had difficulty with the Aborigines here, the Indians, and finally were forced to leave. Research has been done on the east coast and they have found, archaeologists and students of these early cultures and early explorations, have found evidence of the, this colony having been established. I understand there's a monument back east to the first settlers and first white child born in America. I was in Iceland in 1938, I spent the summer there and one of the important landmarks that I used to like to go up and look at was a monument that was presented to Iceland by Congress of the United States which was officially given to the Icelandic nation in commemoration for Leif Erickson’s discovery of America in 1000 A.D. and also 22 on it, it indicates on the plaque, the, and honors Iceland for being the first country in the world to set up a parliamentary government in about 930 A.D. I’ve been out to the spot where this parliament used to meet, out in what they call Thingualla. It’s a plain now, a lava plain and the old chieftains used to meet out there and voice their opinions to the head of the government and here they would legislate and represent the people and hold their parliament. This type of government has been carried on ever since, except in times when they were overrun by Denmark or Norway or some other country, but they had otherwise maintained this representative type of government ever since 930 A.D. JS: It almost sounds like that type of democracy was a more pure form than the type we claim to have gotten from the Greeks. BG: Yes, we hear a lot about the Greek, early Greek democracy or government, but I think students who will compare the two will have to come to the realization that the Icelanders, the early Icelandic people had something very nice and very good, also. JS: You also mentioned that people of Spanish Fork or certain parties are collecting money to present a monument in Iceland. BG: Yes, we're in the process now, of collecting money and some of the money's in. There have been various projects to make this money. I think there were about $300 made up to the time when we started the project of going to the original, or to the early families that came to Utah and there were about 30 of them, 27, I think, to be exact, whom we asked to donate $25 a piece, for the descendants of these original families. And this money, then, will go to construct a monument which we hope will be completed and ready for dedication next summer, and it will be put on Icelandic soil in the Westman 23 Islands, where most of the early immigrants came from Iceland. It will be put on a cement base. There will be a box put in the cement base with the names of those who contributed it and it will be a nice-looking monument. It will be comparable to the monument up on the city park south of the library, a pioneer marking, only this one in Iceland will be on two cement bases which will make it higher and possibly a little more picturesque or impressive because of the way that it will be built back there. But} it will be about that size and it will have the names of these 16 or 17 original pioneers who came to Utah from Iceland. Wow, I mention the names of these families, in 1955 the Icelandic group in this area decided to put on a celebration commemorating a hundred years since the first Icelandic pioneers came to Spanish Fork, Utah and we selected a committee to organize this celebration. We had an executive committee and a general committee. I happened to have been one of the Presidents who served on the executive committee to put this program on and this little booklet I have in my hand is a centennial program which lists the little facts that are associated with this settlement In Spanish Fork; also, the original Icelandic settlers who were still alive at that time. People who participated on the programs over a several day period of time distinguished guests who came to Spanish Fork at that time to be part of the celebration. Here I have the U.S. State Department representative, officer in charge of British Commonwealth and Northern European affairs of the U.S. State Department. We had Peter Egbert who is counsellor to the Icelandic legation of Iceland in Washington D.C. attending, the highest government official in our country representing Iceland. We had some very famous people participating on our program from various parts of the world, Holmfrdur Danielson of Winnipeg Canada. We had some outstanding singers, one Blaine Jonson, 24 from CSU a professor and doctor there, of Music, Tani Bjarnson, a distinguished baritone soloist from Seattle, Washington, Earl Jamison, a rather well-known Icelandic singer others candid. The page I'm turning to now is the order of the floats of the parade, and there were 27 floats, prepared by these 27 families and these floats depict some of the main historical ideas or concepts from the past or they represent a typical Icelandic family, or whatever, to make this unique parade one of the most unique parades, I think, that's ever been held in Utah. Also, in here is the program of events on that particular celebration. This maybe, would refer back to the last interview we had when we indicated that the Icelandic group have stuck together over the years, even into the third and fourth generations, For some reason, the blood ties are stronger than maybe some of the other nationalities, I don't know, but at least it's strong in this group. JS: I was curious too; didn't you mention that they thought this celebration would not be too significant but that it did receive a large coverage? BG: Yes, many people, when we announced our plans, thought that with the small numbers, that it would be impossible because of the difficulty of putting on a celebration in a town of this size when all the community together cooperated, and we do, we put on Fiesta Days and we have every ward in the community cooperating to make it a success, they wondered how this kind of a, this celebration could be a success when it was just a sprinkling of those in numbers. But with the unity that was apparent among these people, a tremendous celebration was put on, to the point that comments were made that it was the finest celebration that Spanish Fork had ever known. We had that comment many times, and because of the numbers of people that came and the uniqueness of the celebration and the parade and all that went with it, many wonderful 25 comments were made and I'm sure many people yet remember that. I have still have people commenting. Maybe I could tell you a little bit about my people. They were rugged seamen and I remember my grandmother telling me about my grandfather going out on the rough and dangerous North Atlantic to fish. I remember one time he fell off the boat and disappeared out of sight and was gone to the point where they'd given up hope and then he came up and he was revived and lived a normal, natural life. When my people came here, they lived in a dug-out out here in the north end of Spanish Fork where they call Maggie's Ben. They actually lived in little dug-outs over there. That was their original home. They had nothing else and they prepared that until were able to build homes. I think anyone that knows the Icelandic people on the bench will know that most of them built rather substantial homes when they were able to work and get enough money to do so; they soon became, I shouldn't say rich, but well-to-do, able to build nice homes and they were very industrious and did well and their homes were a credit to them. Some of the old substantial homes on the east bench are still there, that these people built. I'd just like to give this little thought-supposing that you were in a far country, you were the bride of a young man, you had a little boy who was a year and a half old and the missionaries came and you became acquainted with the Church and the Gospel and you wanted to immigrate to a foreign land. But, in all of the assets that you could gather together, there would only be enough for maybe one to make the trip with no knowledge of just how long it would take for the other one to come. If you were the husband, what kind of a decision would you make if you knew that one of you had to go first and then make enough to send for the other one, knowing that it would take too long to earn enough money to make that trip, staying in Iceland where the wages were 26 much less. What kind of an arrangement would you make? The alternative would be to send your wife and child ahead, which would put the wife out into the rugged country and the desert land and Utah, with maybe, not much opportunity for her to make a lot of money, or you could go alone, but you would have the prospects of maybe, over a number of years having your wife maybe not come because of her love for her family and them not wanting her to go and this kind of thing. Well, the solution was this, the husband went, but he took the little boy with him, a year and a half, knowing that then, the mother would surely come to care for her little boy. He brought the little boy and as they were on the steamer, the little boy fell against the smokestack and was burned. It burned his hand so badly that it was thought that he would never be able to use it again, that it would be of no value to him. However, this happened outside one of the harbors and on the way to America and the doctor took care of these hands and told the father what to do with them. Well, this father and young son came to America and came to Utah and the father was able to earn enough money so that, in about a year, and a half, he could send for the bride and she came over and joined the family. They, the father and the baby, lived in a dug-out with another family that I mentioned previously. This young boy grew up and became a carpenter, for many years worked as a carpenter and gradually developed into an expert cabinet maker and the latter part of his life was spent in making cabinets and making cupboards and other furniture of fine nature and throughout Spanish Fork, there are many homes that proudly display very excellent workmanship in their homes, which was done by this man, who as a baby, the doctors thought would not ever be able to use his hands. This young baby was my father and, of course, the father and mother were ray grandparents. And the people that the boy, my 27 father, and my grandfather lived with were my mother's people. So that's how those two families knew each other. JS: Your mother's family had already come here? BG: They had already come here and they lived in a dug-out and they finally, later, moved into a home and my father and his father lived with my mother's people until, for the first year and a half, I guess, until they established their own home. JS: That's wonderful, Brother Geslison. I sure appreciate this interview the opportunity to talk about you and learn more about Icelandic history. BG: Well, I hope this will do what you had intended it to do. JS: I think it accomplished it—every bit. Thank you. BG: Okay, fine. 28 AN ORAL HISTORY OF THE ICELANDIC HISTORY OF SPANISH FORK Submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements of the Weber State College Oral History Program by Joyce B. Slye on November 1, 1972 INDEX I. SUMMARY AND ANALYSIS OF PROJECT * II. INTERVIEW Is J. VICTOR LIEFSON * III. INTERVIEW Hi MRS. ELIZABETH HALES IV. INTERVIEW III: MRS. MARY £NDRUS AND MRS. SARAH HANSEN V. INTERVIEW IV: MRS. ELEANOR JARVIS VI. INTERVIEW Vi PRES. BYRON GESLISON VII. PICTURES: MONUMENT, INTERVIEWEES, GRAVE MARKINGS, HOMES. VIII. BIBLIOGRAPHY ii AN ORAL HISTORY OF THE ICELANDIC PEOPLE OFSPANISH FORK I. Project description "In I85I two Icelandic Mormons from Copenhagen came as missionaries to the Westmann Islands, southwestern Iceland. They succeeded in converting a few people. One of these became the first Icelandic emigrant to America. In 18 55 Thordur Thidriksson started out by way of Denmark and England for the Mormon settlements in Utah. . . The voyage across the Atlantic took seven weeks. Fifty people died but Thidriksson reached New York on March 7, 1856, and made his way thence overland. Icelandic colonists followed him and a small settlement was founded at Spanish Fork Utah." This small colony, which has the unique reputation for being the first permanent Icelandic settlement in the Americas, became by accident the topic of my oral history project. Accidentally, because was only through a chance conversation that I was ever aware of the local history concerned with this nationality and as I later found out my initial impressions gather from this brief conversation were incorrect. Rather than being a story of feudal struggles it was a very human history of determined folk to adapt to the hardships of a new way of life and discrimination by those who failed to understand. The above quote is typical of the recorded history that I found of this colony. This was one of three direct references made of the Spanish Fork colony. Of the other two one was a collection of brief biographies of early settlers by Rate Carter, and the other, iii a history of Spanish Fork only mentioned the fact that a few Icelanders had settled here. This particular colony has been generally ignored by historians in preference 'to the expeditions into Brazil and Canada and other areas of the United States such as Minnesota and Nebraska. The words "first permanent have taken second chair to other more adventurous movements. This is understandable because the Canadian account records a struggle of greater consequence to its people. Physical endurance was apparently tried in extremes under adverse conditions of weather, soil infertility, political reversals of government, and at one time becoming a pawn for colonial efforts of both the Canadian and United States government. Although the Canadian government contributed material benefits to attract colonists, many or most settlements were eventually left uninhabited as were many in the U.S. as settlers left in search of more hospitable areas. It is of significance to note that although many settlements were only temporary it was not due to the weakness of the settlers. Miss Margaret McWilliams as well as other authors have made the following observation about their steadfastness. "The difficulties which this settlement encountered would have defeated a less sturdy people. . . Stefansson, Vilhjelmur, ICELAND, Doubleday and Company, Inc., 197, New York. p. 239 2Ibid. p. 249. Since I had to abandon my hopes for the more romantic history project other avenues had to be explored and there were many. The brief sketch of history above suggests e number of questions to be examined relative to my particular project, (footnote l) One concerned what national or personal conditions lead to immigration? iv How was the move made possible? What information: would history contribute concerning their political and social heritage? What have been the consequences and advantages of geographical isolation and what effect if any did that have upon their ability to adapt to a: new environment? "What have been the results of political influence from Norway and especially Denmark? Why did Spanish Fork become the destination? Once the destination had been achieved how did assimilation take place? What were the physical conditions of their life? By what means did they make a living and gain a trade? 'What relationship existed between the Danes and the Icelanders here due to the political bondage at home? What were the religious influences? This is a list of 94 basic questions that were initially suggested, as the project progressed others became apparent. Such as, why have the Icelanders maintained a sort of duel patriotism while other nationalities have lost this identity? Icelanders continue to celebrate the founding of this settlement called Iceland Day, one of major significance was held in the 195^'s* They are also avid genealogists and I was curious as to their methods due to the naming process and the eventual change resulting from emigration although close ties with the mother country have been maintained. Of equal importance was information concerning customs and traditions Icelanders brought with them and continued to practice. They were and are an especially educated a literate people which trait seemed to contribute directly to their acceptance into the community. This was a particularly easy area to probe. Icelanders were and are proud of their customs and achievements. Their success in the community readily bares out the truth', of this observation. The pursuit of excellence can be attested to in education carpentry and etc. v Other questions pertained to personal and recall experiences as the occasion suggested. These came easier for some informants that for others but were always valuable. Without exception al informants were sensitive about misquoting, offending or leaving out someone involved with this history and were careful about what was said and how. So often I was instructed to turn off the tape recorder and listen to an experience they wanted me to hear but refused to tape because "someone might read this." I got the impression that the states and relationships acquired in Spanish Fork over the years came not without difficulty and sacrifice and they (especially the older generation) were not about to jeopardize it. Although, I feel too that I been the first to hear their story, but something about the tape and the word history posed a threat. In concluding this subject introduction may I use a quote that expresses the general opinion that has been expressed concerning this people. It includes some general exaggerations but I was impressed with the amount of truth there is about the motherland and those Icelanders I have become acquainted with. "The Icelanders are ... by all accounts, the most devout, innocent, pure-hearted people in the world. Crime, theft, debauchery, cruelty, are unknown among them; they have neither prison, gallows, soldiers nor police; and in the manner of the lives they lead . . . there is something of a patriarchal simplicity. M ^ (Lord Dufferin, 18^6 governor general of Canada) vi II. Project analysis The need for personal preparation for the project became more apparent as the work progressed. Initially I felt prepared with essentially tittle research information. As completion approach I found myself wishing my efforts were only just beginning. At first research was difficult and rather unproductive but as I proceeded with each stage of work new sources became available especially human resources. Although this is bound to be true of all such projects future efforts would have more time spent in preparation not underestimating the value of any source until it has been investigated. I am aware that too much knowledge can also be harmful especially if improperly used, however informants expect some degree of literacy. Properly used knowledge lend an air of importance to the project and to the person being called upon for help. My first attempts lead to lengthy explanations sometimes unnecessary and irritation to the informant. Perhaps experience is another key factor. I found that with every informant there were certain aspects of Icelandic history I was expected to know and which they felt unnecessary to repeat but that were in my opinion essential to the dialogue. These items usually concerned local events or people that permanent citizen are generally aware of but "feat newcomers like myself would not be familiar with. When pinned down to facts my informants would supply information called for. More often than not things were alluded to either because the time and conversation made it inconvenient or because I was unable to capitalize on the moment. One such instance concerned a discussion of two Mormon missionaries in Iceland and their "objectionable conduct." Bro Liefson was hesitant to discuss the matter but a historian of more experience than vii myself may have achieved better success. This is true of the other topics in that discussion; a book called Paradise Regained is a good example. To him the book was a fraud written to deceive the reading public. He had little respect for the author due to "inconsistencies and untruths" written and stated about people here and in Iceland. He refused to discuss any of this on tape for fear of injury to local feelings and he did not want the local public aware of the book and its contents. I went immediately to the B«Y*U« and found a copy in the special collections section. It was a highly romanticized novel but I was not familiar enough with isolated historical events to pass judgment on its authenticity. It did pass on some rather colorful interpretations that would have been interesting to explore further. Bro, Geslison was familiar with the book and agreed that much of it was exaggerated but was unable to state specific instances. Others were generally unfamiliar with the book. Another weakness is very apparent in my project; the nature of the questions posed. Questions concerning early history and facts about Iceland raised few problems but those concerning local and personal history were more difficult. Since there was little information about the local history many of my questions were based on assumption or hearsay or picked up during interviews. I often had to rely on conversational clues for the next discussion topic. And since these questions could not be tested for reliance they often were poorly stated or/and misunderstood. I found this all too true when interviewing Mrs. Hales and Mr. Liefson. Mrs. Hales was especially patient but all too often we found ourselves misunderstanding the others statements which lead to repeating. viii Mr. Liefsons interview started so well that I found myself taking the success for granted. Rather than controlling the direction of the dialogue myself I allowed if it to wonder. So, it would appear on the tape that except for my few mumbled attempts to question, he was conduction an interview of himself. Because of this many interesting°items were left unexplored and other less important ones were discussed in depth. III. Analysis of individual tapes a. Bro. Liefson is to me the typical Icelander as I have come to know them. He is a widower with many self-imposed responsibilities. Before retirement he was a building contractor in good standing as were his father and grandfather. Since retirement he has served on the city council and a variety of city committees. At present he has resigned many of these responsibilities and has concentrated on genealogy and his own Icelandic library, which is impressive. He and "others of his kin have made five trips back to Iceland, one which he returned from just recently with much enthusiasm. I think it would be safe to say he is exceptionally involved with anything that pertains to Iceland. He speaks and reads the language fluently and as is apparent in the tape he is extremely knowledgeable on the subject and loves to talk about it. We spent several hours during our first meeting looking at his slides, cards, books and keepsakes which was m excellent introduction to our taped interview. Previous to our taping appointment he simply glowed with excitement about the things he knew of and could tell me about Iceland. Then as we started into the tape he became almost too formal and too concerned about a precise ix format. He was confident about his material end proceeded without notes during the entire interview. At times he was almost too confident and it sounds as if he were doing the whole .thing himself. This was especially true of the most historical parts and those concerning present day Iceland which seemed to be his discussion favorite. I appreciated the information contributed but am disappointed in some excessive deviations on general items such as the water systems of the country. Lack of experience and confidence on my part is probably to blame for this. Either my initial explanations of the project were not clear enough or/and my questions not directive. In reviewing the tape I felt many of the questions were weak and indicted a dependency on this knowledge rather than a definite goal with the means set down. The introduction produced information valuable for background as did those concerning the early Mormon settlement, but where my knowledge of local history weakened, so did our dialogue. Overall the interview was productive and provided a good introduction to the project end gave me several valuable leads for future reference. b. Sister Kales provided both a personal and. an objective view of the local Icelanders. One of the sweetest people in our town, she accepts everyone for what they are and the good that is in them as well as the bad. Not being an Icelander herself she didn't become sidetracked in the glories of Iceland and of a Icelandic heritage. Rather we were able to concentrate on specific individuals, living conditions, beliefs, experiences and a variety of speculations. x As we began the interview her nervousness was somewhat apparent and she tended to repeat certain phrases. When she became more confident she willingly revealed herself and her experiences without hesitation. Several things seemed to trouble her however, and-at various times during the interview she would repeat regrets such as her failure to sing at a number of Icelanders funerals. In her sweet way she also voiced objections she still harbored concerning the fact that she was shown less consideration for her singing engagements than was another lady with fewer obligations. This particular interview was terminated with mixed feelings on my part; I had the impression that she had many more stories or experiences to share if properly stimulated. She was growing tired and we both needed a rest. In the intermission between our next visit her health suffered a setback by a fall she sustained in her front yard. Consequently we did not pursue our dialogue any further. c. The names of Sarah Hansen and Mary Andrus were suggested tome by Sister Hales and they proved to be enjoyable informants. Both are elderly; Mrs. Andrus is or was little restless end hard of hearing, and Mrs. Hansen was rather shy and uncertain. Mrs. Hansen later informed me that she had suffered a stroke a few months earlier which explained her insecurity about her memory. Both ladies appeared to have a great deal to say about their past and Mary Andrus spoke quite freely about her girlhood. Sarah Hansen on the other hand was dependent upon her sister for suggestions and aids for her dialogue and lacked the confidence to really give of herself. xi This particular interview was really a challenge to me at first and after about thirty to forty minutes of dialogue I felt like we had accomplished only moderate success. Jarvis Warner, Mrs. Hansen* s son, appeared on the scene to offer considerable assistance. His jovial personality seemed to add some spark to the interview and he contributed variety to the interview as well as some interesting experiences and information. Perhaps one most important contribution this family made to the project was to give meaning to the conditions of the poor living conditions. They were able to describe the demands of providing a means of livelihood and participation by all family members without bitterness or resentfulness. Interestingly enough I got the impression that they felt that struggles with nature were necessary as well as were those with society. They seemed to feel that it was right that they be asked to prove their worth prior to their acceptance into that community. They felt they had succeeded in proving themselves and had earned a certain amount of recognition. This is one instance when I wish I had taken time to become better acquainted with my people before I attempted to conduct an interview. More would have been accomplished. d. Eleanor Jarvis. I believe it was Hamlet that said . . . "Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow ..." particularly intimating the passing of time without accomplishment. Without being too critical, this interview was my most difficult. Eleanor Jarvis is a fine woman, very dedicated to her Icelandic Heritage. She is a xii sister to Kate Carter and her brother Jack Bearnson is a prominent Icelandic genealogist. Eleanor however is a wonderful little lady with a great deal of knowledge and because obligation of her early years are gone she concentrates on journals and genealogy and other work concerning Iceland. Her information was valuable but it seemed that we had to wade through numerous amounts of materials not to be taped to get to that that could. I'm sure that town urgency to proceed contributed very little to the condition. I regret that many items assigned to untaped conversation because of her sensitivity about the potential reading audience. Other problems arose after the recording was made and the transcription returned. She was extremely cautious about the way she sounded. She also felt that much if not all should be redone to sound better. I was able to persuade her to leave the paper and tape as they were and make corrections and additions only where she felt information had not been given correctly or was not complete. I spent many very nervous moments with Mrs. Jarvis trying to encourage her and explain her the reasons for the informal nature of the interview. My success was somewhat questionable. But I did appreciate her concern and willingness to help. e. President Geslison provided my very favorite interview, probable because of his warm and personable manner. Our interview was conducted in the Spanish Fork High School Seminary building, in his office, which although rather small and crowded was quite compatible to our needs and put at his fingertips any or all information he needed. At one point during the interview he took the time to show xiii me some of his work on genealogy. He reviewed on the tape how easy genealogy is to trace if you are or can be traced to a line of royalty or kings, which is apparently not uncommon because of the numbers of petty kings in the Scandinavian countries. His particular line connected to Harold the Fair Haired who was a unifying king of Norway and it was fascinating to see the royal names of history. Also, Bro. Geslison was much less sensitive about what he spoke about. He was careful not to use names unnecessarily or speculate on hearsay but I felt he was more concerned with the content of the tape and that it be complete and honest rather than about who was to read it and what they would think. He was, however, very soft spoken and I had difficulty in keeping his volume high enough to record. I also neglected to allow the recorder to warm itself up before proceeding and the introduction and first few sentences were left out. xiv IV. Class Evaluation My impressions are for the most part favorable. I am grateful for the opportunities provided and for the knowledge and relationships resulting from my project. The orientation week was exciting and extremely motivating. I was personally very stimulated by the concepts of this new type of historical research and its present and future potential. The opportunity for individuality was possibly the most exciting part and I think, Dr. Sadler, that your personal enthusiasm was the greatest contributor along with that your colleague. Many good ideas have stayed on the ground because of a lack of^ or the inability to generate a sincere enthusiasm. Looking back on my initiation to the project I felt unprepared in two ways specifically. First may I say I appreciated the expert discussion of the professors from Weber and Utah State University concerning their work in this field? However these men were professionally and academically involved and I don't feel presented a realistic impression of the project. Previous students of this project, not professionally involved, may have been helpful. I would like to have been warned by one of my own peers about the tedious hours of typing, research disappointments, dissatisfactory interviews, moments of discouragement as well as the successes resulting. I would have liked to question several of them in class and maybe have them demonstrate their opinions using their own tapes and transcripts. The one particular session where we listened to multiple tapes was only partially helpful and would have been more helpful to after or in conjunction with the session mentioned above. xv Also I would like to have seen a sample project or projects complete to examine the authors purpose and technique. Our handouts were especially helpful, but the written word is much clearer when accompanied by the real thing. I- regret not keeping in closer touch. About the end of July I was rather down, lost and frankly unmotivated. One mid-project regrouping of the troops to hash out problems and discouragements>would really have helped. Sometimes sharing is good medication. The telephone conversations were extremely helpful and motivation was renewed at the conclusion. However, speaking for myself one or two required group conferences at mid-points in the project would have been wonderful or did my failure to attend one result, from my own ignorance of their existence. In closing may I say that this has honestly been perhaps the most worthwhile projects for history that I've participated in? This would have been a much more realistic application of practical history for the senior history * seminar than the written one required at B.Y.U. xvi