Oral History Program Freddie Martinez Interviewed by Gaye Rhodes 07 August 1971 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Freddie Martinez Interviewed by Gaye Rhodes 07 August 1971 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Martinez, Freddie, an oral history by Gaye Rhodes, 07 August 1971, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Freddie Martinez. The interview was conducted on August 7, 1971, by Gaye Rhodes, in Park City, Utah. Mr. Martinez discusses his personal experiences and knowledge of the prostitution business in Park City, Utah. An unknown speaker is also present, and is represented by the initials US. GR: This is an interview of Freddie Martinez by Gaye Rhodes on August 7, 1971 at P.M. for the Utah Oral History Program. The interview is conducted at the (_____) Inn in Park City, Utah. Freddie, I'll call you Freddie. FM: Alright. GR: I'll start off the interview by asking you about your childhood in Park City. Where were you raised and go to school? FM: I was raised in Park City. I went to school in Park City. I was raised here in the city as well as in the mountains, hereabouts. I came, I stayed, I hunt, horseback riding, of course, lots of sports. GR: What did you do in your social life? What did you do when you were young? FM: About how young? GR: Teenager. FM: When I was a teenager, I used to sneak in the movies. I used to sneak into the cat houses and watch guys go in and out. I used to be quite a loner. I used to get all the city boys to go in a car and I'd tease them and razz them and have them try to chase me and catch me. Not that they ever could or did. I was always one step ahead of them. 1 And like I said I went fishing, horseback riding, hiking, camping. At that time we used to get 22 rifles and go up in the mountainsand get some of them deer or a stray lamb or stray steer. And take a little dynamite and blast the river or lake and get the fish. GR: Dynamiting? FM: Sure. Stick of dynamite, put a rock on it and throw it out into the water. When it sinks it goes off and the fish come up to the top and just heap them in. GR: Why don't you tell me about the cat houses? FM: Well, there used to be, I'd say, approximately 13 to 15 of them. They were just little. Most of them had a front room, kitchen and a crib. And they used to charge $2.00 a trick and they sold whiskey $0.50 a shot and I think those averaged from 18 to 50. Sometimes there's one in a house. Sometimes there's 4 and 5. In my early 20’s I was a bouncer in one of them. They had five girls and a man. I'd go to work at 12:00 and get off at 4:00. If I wanted to stay with one of the girls if she didn't have an all-night trick, I could. If I didn't, I'd go home. And every night they'd (_____). $10:00 an hour. Only I played it smart. I went up to see the man, he'd got himself hypnotized. Never had any trouble. The customers were coming and going. You could charge them $12 a person to come up from Salt Lake in a Taxi cab. The girls would get a night off a week. Lots of times they'd pay me. I'd run them to Salt Lake, take them to their apartment, didn't mind. Of course, that was kind of illegal but I'd pick a tank full of gas, extra meals, spending money. But (_____) harder. If I made $20 that’s what counts. I got (_____) whiskey, four or five hamburgers and I said keep the change. And I got good hamburgers, French fries, chicken, whatever I wanted. A prostitute is very free hearted if you treat her right. 2 I've had a chance many a time I've had different girls wanted to work under me. I just wanted a good time. I didn't care to get (_____) off a woman's body. GR: What about a prostitute as a person? They're free hearted? FM: Yes. They're free hearted if they're treated right. Of course, a prostitute has feelings, you know, just like anybody else. (_____) Some customers give them a little more money. They were extra nice. There would be repeaters. They'd keep coming back and they'd come back about the same time, every night of the week and some of them were very beautiful girls. And like in this one place there were five. Lots of times they'd sleep together. Sometimes I'd sleep with two of them. I learned a lot about women's behavior and their sexual life. GR: Probably more than a lot of psychologists today, too. FM: Maybe. GR: What about that. Maybe you could give me, well, an insight into that. FM: What? GR: What their feelings were towards each other, towards the men they...? FM: Usually, in this particular house, they'd pair off and if they didn't have any trick, they'd sleep together. One night I'd make love to one and another night to the other. GR: And so maybe they were even gay some of them. FM: You could call them gay or (fairies) or bisexual. And a prostitute doesn't believe in kissing, because the mouth is dirtier than the lower part of the body. You can ask any doctor and he'll tell you the same thing. It's cleaner than the mouth. The mouth carries 3 many, many diseases. And they seemed to be happy. They like to work because they liked the money or because they were oversexed or what. I never did ask them many personal questions. But the way they acted they seemed to be contented. They enjoyed their work. GR: Do you remember any in particular? FM: Oh, four or five. Like one, she wanted to get her girlfriend to work for me and she said she'd even marry me. I wouldn't have to work. She'd take care of me. She was all the time giving me money plus (_____) got a suit or two for me. Sometimes she'd give me the keys to her car and I'd get in the car and take a ride. Sometimes I wouldn't come back for two or three days (_____). And just keep going. GR: Where did you go for two or three days? FM: Sometimes just in town, (_____), sometimes (_____) sometimes Salt Lake. Sometimes that colored girl would give me her keys and I'd take another woman to Salt Lake, stay the night and come back the next morning. I think they got them down to three, four. GR: At night? FM: Yes. In the morning they didn't have any tricks and they had the day off, instead of waiting till morning. And the only town they were allowed to come into town was when they had to go to the drug store to get cosmetics, some medicine. GR: Well, they kept themselves fairly clean, then. FM: They were examined by a doctor once a week and after each trick they'd wash out and they had to have a doctor’s permit. If they were clean, they could work. GR: Oh, here in Park City. So it wasn't legalized but it was controlled more or less? 4 FM: Right. It wasn't legalized, but it was controlled and we never had any child molesting. GR: That's what the man was telling me in the bar. He was saying that you had a lot of transients. FM: Well, we do now and rowdy people are coming into town now and what I call dirty long hair. They have long hair that hasn't been combed or washed for weeks and months. Dirty feet, no shirt, dirty bodies, dirty pair of shorts, pants cut off and you can tell they're scroungy looking. You can almost see the lice in their hair and scraggly beards. Those are out trouble makers. The clean ones we have, wear shoes, long hair, but they're combed and neat and there's no problem there. Now, most of these long haired men have been to college in this area and they're pretty well educated and some of them receive money from their parents to stay away from home. (Laugh) which I can understand. GR: Yes. I could too. FM: The only trouble is what I call these dirty long-hairs. They brought Marijuana in and I imagine here in Park City we never had it till these long-hairs came in and now some of our locals are picking it up from them long-hairs. We even have a few locals been sent to the hospital even. Some of them have been picked up so dopy. The locals never knew what dope and Marijuana was till they came along so all they've done is brought our standard of living down, way down. And you find that people resent this which is natural. We had a clean upstanding town. You could go to the grocery store, 5:30 or 6:00, buy groceries, put them in the car, go in and have a beer or go do some other shopping, leave the car windows down, the car unlocked and come back 4:00 in the 5 morning, nothing would be touched. Now, even if the car is empty, you have to lock it. You don't know what's going to happen. GR: Sticky fingers. FM: Sticky fingers. They'll even come out of a tavern and instead of using the bathroom in there, they'll come out and they'll urinate on the building right there on the sidewalk. GR: Oh, you're kidding. FM: No. And they'll come out naked and start chasing some of these girls up the street. GR: Really. FM: Right. And we even had once come out the middle of Main Street strip naked, singing and dancing, probably on dope. GR: When was that? FM: About a year more or less. GR: And did they arrest them? FM: They were arrested and put in jail and that's the last I heard of them. GR: Right on Main Street FM: Right on Main Street, right in the middle of the street. GR: Too bad no one was out (_____) (laugh) (_____). What the lady and the man were telling me about the hippies that just moved in, some of them are rich, in fact, one owns a $15,000 house up the street that he's fixing up and apparently he's causing problems. 6 FM: Yes. I guess, a lot of these long-hairs are pretty well-to-do. Some are, you know, clean, decent looking but a lot of them are scroungy. And some of them are in business. Oh, brother, I wonder how they make a living the way they look. Some of them, you stand by them and you can smell them and when you pass them on the street you can smell them. It's terrible. GR: When did they first come to Park City? Do you remember? FM: I'd say approximately 3 years ago. They started coming in little by little. I used to be an owner of a beer tavern in town, I used to have a girl working for me. She was clean and neat but the man she was living with—she divorced her husband and had two kids and she was living with this hippie and he was dirty scroungy looking and he used to go into Salt Lake, once or twice a week (_____) and go through the garbage cans. His woman come in there and said she was working for me, and she says,”Mr. Martinez, you call me Willie." And they didn't believe in eating meat. GR: Didn't you know they didn't? FM: Right. They're normally vegetarians and a few of them invited me up to their home once and I went. I dropped in they were just having supper. One of the boys, about 7 years old he looked at me and he said, "We got corn on the cob and I don't like it. It's hard and it's dry and there's no butter to put on it. That's when the woman started telling me the way they get their food. He did get picked up and got put in the Salt Lake jail. Got picked up behind the Safeway store in the garbage can. They put him in jail and after that he got out. His dad is sending him money to stay away from home. The last I heard he was going to school in Provo. 7 GR: BYU? FM: I really don’t know. Some kind of college. Him and the girl and the two kids moved to Provo and he went to school but she was the first one that didn’t wear a bra. GR: In this town? FM: In this town that I know of. And you could tell she wasn't wearing a bra and one guy asked her, "How come you don't wear a bra?" And she said, "Well, how come you don't wear a jock strap?" So, I guess, turnabout is fair trade. GR: That's Women's Lib. FM: Right. GR: Do you have any of that type today? US: There are a lot of those. FM: Oh, no GR: He's not telling lies, I hope. FM: Even now, in fact, I park on Main Street once in a while and just watch the people go up and down. You can tell the way the girl walks and what she's wearing if she's not wearing a bra. You can actually see through a thin sweater. GR: The prostitutes, I wonder about that, how do they dress? FM: Just like you and I. When they're on the street, even, clean, neat. In the house, the business they usually wear a smock (_____) face very well made up, clean smock. And they bathed regularly. GR: Could you see through the smock? 8 FM: No. But they'd come out whenever they didn't happen to be busy at the time (_____). He'd wait for I'd say 10 minutes for her till he thinks she is ready. GR: There wasn't a time limit then? FM: Yes. Approximately 10 minutes. He'd go in and they'd have you pull it out and they'd skin it back and squeeze it to see if his sperm or his (_____) is coming out, then they'd wash in hot water. GR: They would her in hot water? FM: Yes. Then they'd take their smock or robe off and the rest is up to you. A lot of guys would go in, you know, they'd go up on grass and he'd put on the girl's stuff and pretend like he was the girl and she was picking him up. GR: Really? FM: Oh, yes. And they pay extra for this. And a lot of guys would just go in and the girl would just lay down and he'd kneel between the spread legs and they could save themselves till they came and they'd be satisfied. A lot of them would just go down on the girl, finish her off, he'd be through. He'd get satisfaction all the way through. GR: Same price? FM: Same price. GR: Well, it sounds like they're quite sanitary about it. FM: They were very sanitary and they had what they called the French. That’s when the girl would go down on the man. Sometimes they had what they called a half and half. The girl would go down on the man for a little while and then insert it and (_____) off that 9 way. A lot of girls came from nice families like this one that had her apartment in Salt Lake. Her family was up in Layton, Monticello, up in there somewhere. She lived in Salt Lake and then she'd go from there up to see her family (_____) about a week. GR: Did they have to pay rent here when they came up? FM: No. Out of each trick, the girl would get so much and the household gets about, I don’t know whether it’s 60-40. I believe that was what it was. 60 for the household and 40 for the girl and when a girl would get a trick she'd take the money and put it in her drawer in a box and write down the amount. Then at night, she'd check in her money and then she'd have to be accountable for it. And when she'd go home, why, the man would pay her off and then they'd have one woman going around with these little towels, you know, to see each one had fresh towels, soap. GR: Did you ever have to bounce anyone? FM: Did I ever have to what? No. I had it pretty good. At that time I was in my early 20's and I had a pretty good reputation. I was pretty good with my hands. I was pretty well known so there was no problem. I got along good with everybody. GR: No one created a disturbance? FM: No one created any. Oh, once in a while, you'd get somebody that come in raising problems. Walk them out, tell them to either come back sober or not to bother coming back. It was easier for them to go over there and spend their $2, which was the price at that time, instead of going to Salt Lake, spend $15 to $20 to take her out and maybe get nothing. GR: Were you ever surprised by anything at the house? 10 FM: No. It was handled with what you would call an open mind. And I knew that the human mind works in very many funny or weird ways and nothing really surprised me. Even some of our customers were local people. Some are married, respected. I would say any of these people. I better keep my mouth shut. I'd see them on the street, I'd speak to them as if I hadn't seen them over there or anything. GR: So you think that some of the behavior there would maybe surprise other people a little more? FM: Well, naturally it would, yes. If you happen to get two women to make love to one another or if a man and woman laid in bed as if they were being watched. It would (_____). But me, I had an idea, more or less, what was going on so it didn't matter or phase me a bit. To me it's just a normal, natural reaction. GR: But some of the more respected men of the town, would go to the place. What about women? Were there any of the women in the place? FM: No. There never were any women, unless there was a girl looking for a job. Sometimes a girl was what, I would say, on the line. She'd come over and ask the man for a job if there's an opening and if she was, you know, pretty nice looking or so, he'd put her to work. GR: Well, it was outlawed, prostitution, wasn't it? Just lately? FM: It's been outlawed a long time. It never has been legal, but the city was getting the revenue and every once in a while a girl would get picked up, charged, maybe $25, say, maybe once a month and that way, why it made it look good. But, you know, it was still going on. It was never stopped for years. The last cat house we had here up to that 11 time, a woman named Bessie ran it. It was there till maybe 3, maybe 4 years ago, somebody put some dynamite on the roof and blew a big hole in it. And a couple of years ago (_____), the door was wide open, I walked in there was nothing, it was all stripped. Somebody set fire to it. Right now, where the girls used to be there's nothing there. It was between the road and the railroad. And then we used to have some here in town. Have a couple of girls and they had this hotel with (_____) on the bottom, and a couple of girls. You could get something to eat or go up and get a room or you could get a girl. GR: You can't name the hotel, then? FM: It's the hotel, you're probably thinking of. And we had another one here at the bottom of Main Street. Oh, a big fat woman ran it. GR: A big fat woman? FM: A great big fat woman. (Laugh) Oh, I bet she weighed 400 pounds. She had two-three girls and the next thing the city pulled them up and now you have to go down on Second south and west in Salt Lake. It cost you $20 bucks for a girl and then you don't know if you're going to get doped or if you're going to get rolled or what. And so they have these police women out there, so you don't know who you're approaching. You can only stand out with the rest of the (_____). GR: Why do you think prostitution left Park City, then? FM: It was illegal. Well, the mine closed down and the city was coming down. There wasn't enough here to get revenue. There wasn't enough locals to keep it going. There wasn't enough coming in from Salt Lake. 12 GR: When was this about? FM: Oh, I'd say a good ten years. GR: Ten years ago. FM: Maybe 15. Right now there could be hustlers in town and if there are I don't know them. Of course, I don't frequent the taverns like I used to. But I think if a guy went around looking he could find, maybe some girl working in some bar. GR: Who got you the job as a bouncer? FM: I've been a policeman two times, in town and this was the first time I'd been off. I was pretty ripped. And the girls were having trouble over there, so this policeman came up to the house and asked me about the job and I said I'd go down and talk to them. And for $10 an hour, and I was doing nothing, I had nothing to lose. I gave it a go. It worked real nice for me. I'd go to work at 12:00, off at 4:00 in the morning. All the free lovin' I wanted. (Laugh) Didn't need to spend any money. GR: That is quite a job, fringe benefits. FM: Fringe benefits. GR: In fact, I don't think you could get quite as good a job even with a college degree. (Laugh). FM: No. We only had to work four hours. GR: There's always been just one cat house at a time, here? 13 FM: No. I guess there used to be 12 to 15 houses. There was anywhere from 1 to 5 girls in each house. And then they had these two or three different places anywhere from 2 to 4 girls, on Main Street. GR: Where is Main Street? FM: This is the one right in front of the tavern here. Right across from the Post Office, that old building there on the northwest corner. Used to have a couple there. And do you know where the drug store is? GR: Yes. FM: Up the road a ways, across from the bank. The building's torn down now. That's where the Hotel Utah, I believe that's the name, I'm not positive on that. We used to have a few there. The building's been torn down now. About a year and a half or so. Just an empty lot there. GR: Would you get outsiders, say, from Salt Lake coming in who were Mormon? FM: Yes. They used to drive up. Well, I imagine each and every religion. They're all human and this is a way that (_____) body. It's the only one I live for. GR: So the religions were fairly tolerant to it? They accepted the girls? FM: Yes. In a way, they were accepted because the girls were never on the street. They’d go in their little homes and stayed there. They might leave 25 minutes, a half hour. The Madame would come into town and buy the groceries. GR: The Madame? 14 FM: The Madame. The woman that run the place. She'd come into town or she'd call in and order her groceries and they'd deliver or sometimes she'd come to pick them up. The girls would just come in to pick up their medicine and cosmetics and stuff for their personal needs. GR: What was the Madame like? FM: They were all different sizes and shapes. Usually they were elderly women and even with a stiff hand. Like a man would come in, offer a girl a (_____). She'd say yes. He'd have his whiskey straight but the girl had tea made to the strength that it looked like whiskey but it was nothing but cold tea or coke diluted. And that's all they'd drink. The girls were not allowed to drink. GR: Did the Madame’s ever lay anyone? FM: Oh, yes. Every once in a while a man would yen for the Madame and she charged them what one of the girls would. Some of the Madame’s were married and some weren't. Some just had a man that they call today, pimps. And if a man wanted a Madame instead of a girl, why, he'd approach her and take her in the crib. You know, each girl had her own crib. GR: Crib. Do you mean bed? FM: A bed. It would be in a small room, a bed and a little table with a basin for water, you know, to wash themselves with. What they'd wash themselves off with after. They would put the pan on the floor, squat over and splash water up in there and then wipe dry. They used to use a lot of Lysol in the water. A lot of girls when they were on their period, they'd use some form of a tampax and of course, once in a while a man would 15 get a spot of blood on him and he'd bitch to the Madame and she'll say, "Well, I'm going to turn the girl loose. I’m going to let her go after tonight, anyway.” But she wouldn’t. Some girls can have sex during their period, some can't. Some enjoy it more. Some don't. Some believe that if you do it during the period, you cannot get pregnant. From my readings, they say there is a possibility. Whether it's true or not, I don't know. GR: Did many of the prostitutes ever get pregnant? FM: Never. Some of them were even married. They'd have their husband in Salt Lake or along around Provo and on their day off, pick them up, take them out. Some of them had friends that would actually pick their buddies wife. It was normal. Go in and a friend's laying her or somebody else. GR: Did any prostitute ever object to laying anyone? FM: To my knowledge, no. Sometimes the man was so drunk he'd maybe lie on her. GR: Were any of them ever abused? FM: To my knowledge, no. If a girl was abused she wouldn't have anything more to do with him and tell the other girls and they wouldn't let him back in again. GR: How old were you when you started being a bouncer? FM: I'd say about 21. Maybe 22. That's when I was in my prime. (Laugh) I wasn't afraid of no man who walked on two feet. GR: That's a young age to be near. FM: You have to learn sometime. (Laugh) GR: That's true. Do you remember who objected first to the prostitution in this area? 16 FM: No. I don't. I imagine it would be your city council or your mayor. Of course, your mayor had the say so then. Usually our mayor at that time had a good strong backbone where today the mayor is nothing but like a scapegoat. The council does all BS, you know, deciding. If it's an even vote then the mayor has a vote and that's about it. GR: Did your family live here at the time? FM: Yes. And they say I was a little wild. I'd be away from home weeks and months. GR: Did you ever work in the mines? FM: Yes. I've worked 15 years off and on. GR: I hear the pay in the mines is not as good. FM: Naturally, there’s no comparison in the money for the hours you have to put in. It’s hard work. And like the night shift. You go there at 9:00, get out of your street clothes and put on these dirty clothes to work in. (_____). You stood out in the sun, not in the shade where it was hot in those dirty clothes. So when you got in the mine it was around 6:30. It was alright. As soon as you’re done, you took a good hot shower, felt like a new man. GR: It's very interesting about the social situation here. None of the women of Park City objected violently. FM: I imagine there were some who objected, because, I imagine their husbands would sneak over now and then and naturally, a wife would object or a girlfriend would if she found out or caught him. Of course, a lot of the locals would go over there late at night after the taverns just for a drink or two of whiskey and go home. It used to be you could buy a good ounce for $0.50 straight. Some of us would get off night shifts early in the morning and go over and have a couple of drinks and then go home. 17 GR: Would anyone ever want to pay to see someone else do it? FM: Yes. This is, I believe, what you call a voyager or voyeur, something like that. I can't pronounce the word. They'd pay to watch a guy and a girl make love. GR: Where would they watch? FM: Right there in the same room. Or they'd watch two girls making love and they'd pay and that's the way they would get their cookies off, you might say. (Laugh). GR: $2? FM: Two to five, it would depend, you know. Lots of times. You see, your standard price is $2 per trick. But like I say these fellows that want something else that's when they normally pay a little more for it, because (_____) to get their fulfillment. GR: Would the prostitutes mind someone else in the room? FM: No. They were getting paid for it. It didn't bother them a bit, no. You know, just like working out in the public only it's a different form of work. Sometimes there would be two men with one girl. GR: Two men with one girl? FM: Yes. GR: How? FM: She'd put it in her mouth and the other one would lay on her and screw her and then they'd change around. And maybe she'd suck on the one and the guy would enter from the rear while then she was making love with the one guy. Oh, there’s a hundred and one thousand different ways and they're all exciting. 18 GR: But none of them never surprised you? FM: No. But, like I say, different people do different ways. It doesn't surprise men any bit more than to see a guy walk across the street and the next one run or the next one skip. It's all normal. It's all life. GR: It seems like you were right in the center. FM: Part of my life. GR: Did anything tragic ever happen to any of the prostitutes? FM: No. They were looked after and they stayed in their place. There was never any problem. At least to my knowledge. As a matter of fact, I knew one guy that married one girl out of there and she was about 15 or 20 years older than the guy and they live here in town. And they never had any children. They both died of old age here in town. I guess they both lived here 20 or 25 years. And everybody in town knew she was an ex. And she was good, faithful and they never stopped talking with here. And there was another one from the house that got married. Couldn't have children but they were respectful and they adopted two children. It's been a while. I've been told, I've heard that if you marry a girl out of a cat house, she's faithful. If this is true or not, I don't know. GR: Maybe more faithful than the women who go to church every Sunday. FM: I think you're right. Exactly. Religion has nothing to do with your sexual life. Some of the people I know are very, very religious but still when they leave town and get away where they're not known (_____), they'll drink, they'll chase women, they'll smoke, and they'll have a ball. GR: What about the religions in Park City? 19 FM: It's predominantly Mormon and then Catholic and then I'd say, your First Community, which is a little of everything. If there's Methodists here, I don't know, but I imagine there is. GR: What about atheists? FM: Oh, there's some of those here too. I knew one in particular. She used to go out (_____). But she was a lowly woman. Whether she’d ever been married or not, I don't know but you could tell she was lonely and bitter towards men. GR: You've given us quite an insight into the social life of Park City. FM: At one time there used to be 26 beer joints on Main Street. GR: 26? FM: And some of them were Italian, some were Chinese, some were Mexican, some Austrians and they each practically had their own places to go and when they got a few drinks, they'd wander into the other joints looking for a good fight. It was nothing to see two or three different fights a night. GR: Did you ever see the fights? FM: Yes. I've seen them. I've been in a lot of them. (Laugh). GR: I hope you won. FM: I never lost in one. I was lucky. Of course, like I say, that was when I was young and a hell raiser. GR: Being away from the big city there's really not much to do except that. FM: There's plenty to do if you want. 20 GR: Amongst yourself? FM: Sure. You could go fishing. You can go boating, camping, horseback riding. GR: Where's the best fishing spot? FM: They’re all good. It depends upon the fisherman and what type he is, whether he is a fly or a bate fisherman, whether he likes to fish early in the morning, late at night, or at noon, depending on the weather. The fish have different times of the day that they eat and they live in schools and the fish are like a human being. Like we have roads, the fish have certain trails where the schools go. GR: I’m pretty fond of fishing. Amateur fisherman. FM: If you’d like a stream, river, or a lake. GR: (_____). FM: What do you like? Lake fishing? GR: I like rivers, streams. FM: Streams where you find little eddies. We have the Provo, the Weaver River, a little creek down here, called Kimble. The kids are always down there catching nice Rainbows, Brooks and German Browns, nice ones. Two, three pounders, some of them. But your best fish is 10 to 12 inch, what you call a pan size. Put about 2 or 3 or those in the pan after you soaked. Get them in flour, corn meal with milk and fry them with bacon, brown them. Perfect for camping out. A couple of fish, bacon, fried potatoes, coffee and you've got a well nourishing meal. GR: There's plenty to do. 21 FM: There's plenty to do if you want to do it. GR: Plenty of our-door life. We thank you for the interview. It's been very interesting. FM: I hope you enjoy our town. If you decide to live here I hope you buy your (_____). US: Do you work at all? GR: Well, I have to. FM: That's nice, you should be rich or well-to-do. GR: No. But I have to work. The End 22