Oral History Program Lamont Nelson Interviewed by Shelbi Nelson 26 June 2008 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Lamont Nelson Interviewed by Shelbi Nelson 26 June 2008 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Nelson, Lamont, an oral history by Shelbi Nelson, 26 June 2008, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Lamont Dee Nelson. It is being conducted on June 26, 2008 at his Layton, Utah home and concerns the subject of fatherhood. The interviewer is Shelbi Jean Nelson. SN: This is Shelbi Jean Nelson, I am interviewing Lamont Dee Nelson today is June 26th it's about 7:45 PM. We are here in his home in Layton, Utah and our last name is spelt N-EL-S-O-N and we are going to be talking about his son, who I am married to, the oldest boy so Mont why don't you tell me his name. LN: Brian Nelson, Brian Dee Nelson. And we came about that name because my name is Lamont and it's kind of a weird name and I have always hated it. Both laughing So we just figured that we were going to have the most common names that the kids could have so that they would never have to suffer through life like I did. So we gave him my middle name, my middle name is Dee and Brian is Dee so that there would be some correlation there, some tie in for genealogy sake both laughing . SN: Okay, so what day was he born? LN: He was born on November 5, 1979. SN: And what do you remember about that day? LN: Well it was almost exactly two years after we were married. We were married on 11/11/1977 so we almost made it two years. At that point in time we were living in Ogden, Utah on 29th Street. We had bought a house there about six months after we were married so we had been living there about a year and one half and when Brian was born. And at that time we were just getting ready... back then interest rates were 1 16-17% on mortgages. So as bad as we think we have it today, back then it was anywhere between 14-18% on mortgages. And the same with cars. I was working at a car dealership fulltime and I had been managing the parts department and going to school at Weber State fulltime and I remember at that point in time they had moved me up into sales and I remember that we would sit there for three or four days at a time and never see a person walk into the car lot both laughing . We were calling people and trying to get them down, but you had 13-14% interest rates. So very few people could afford cars and that was only back in '79. So that was less than 30 years ago, so you compare that with high interest rates and the economy now and it’s not that bad, but as bad as it seems now. But anyways, we qualified for a state-money loan because it was our first home to build. It was a 235 loan and we were in the process at that point in time that was in November of getting our qualification done so we could start building a new house out in Harrisville that following March, and that's when Brian was born. We had a little house, a little add on bedroom in the back that you had go through, so you know, a fifty-year-old house, and you had to go through our bedroom to get back this little add on bedroom. SN: Is that house still there? LN: Yeah, still there. We had the apartment in the basement of it, we had a single girl that was a nurse at McKay Dee named Kim Bagalla living there in the basement and so we had a pretty good deal. For a young married couple we had the house and she paid half the mortgage and we had a pretty good deal. But the state, there again with the state money loan, and so even that house there was a state money, which you needed back then, because you couldn't afford to buy a house without it. 2 SN: So, why did you guys decide to move to Harrisville? LN: Because we wanted to build a new home and I wanted to build it and we found a builder out there that was building 235 spec homes and it was out in North Ogden and I came from the northern part of Ogden so we figured that was a good spot to go and looked at the subdivision they were building out there and was pretty attractive for a small starter home type subdivision. So that's why we decided to go and we went north. SN: So, back to Brian-Was he a planned baby or back then, was birth control even around? LN: No. No, he was a planned baby. He was a planned baby, you know we planned it, but we obviously know exactly when, but it was not a surprise. We figured it was time. Julie at the time graduated from college, she had graduated by now, she graduated ahead of me because I went into the mission field so she had graduated by then and was working at Sears. We were ready. I was working at Jim Layton Buick fulltime and then I had a part time job doing janitorial work and driving a charter bus and then I was also in the bishopric and building a house. Laughing . SN: I just can't get over it, that is so much work. How could you do all of that? LN: You know, you just put your heart into it and it's what you enjoy doing, and you do it. Julie was a good wife and supported me and we were active. I had to get up early in the morning and I would go to work and then I would go to school and then I would go back to work and then when I would get off work, I'd either go to another job or else go out and work on the house until 8 or 9 o'clock at night. SN: Lucky you! 3 LN: I had a lot of friends out there in Harrisville. One of my good friends, Garth Martin, who was actually going to frame the house for us. I remember many times that it kind of used to be the standing joke that Julie would come out to the house to check on me and I would be over helping somebody else on their house and mine would be sitting both laughing . SN: Oh gee, sounds like my husband. Both laughing . LN: That's where he got it from. SN: I'm not surprised. Both laughing . LN: That's why it took us about an extra month to build the house because I was always helping somebody else. Both laughing . SN: I am not surprised. Laughing . LN: It was interesting, 'cos when we were building the house, the high water table out there. We dug the hole one day and went out the next day and it was filled with water. The excavator was in the hole, and was just buried up to the tracks. We thought what in the world have we gotten into?! SN: Well you could have just started from there with a swimming pool. Both laughing . LN: Anyways, he was born in November. SN: What do you remember about that day? LN: I remember, that he was a huge baby and the doctor was amazed at how big he was. He was ten pounds, a little over ten pounds. SN: I think David was ten. 4 LN: Brian was 8, 2 then. SN: Me and Brian weighed the same. LN: Yeah, he was pretty big. I was thinking David was twelve. SN: But still, a 9 pound baby was pretty damn big. LN: But he was happy. We were thrilled to have him, thrilled to have a boy. SN: Did you know that it was a boy? LN: No. Back then, you had no idea. You could do ultrasounds and that, but they weren't as accurate as they are now days. When Jeff was born four or five years later, our youngest, he was a girl right up to the day that he was born both laughing . I wouldn't trust ultrasounds. Good thing we didn't have pink clothes for him. Both laughing . SN: So did you want a boy? LN: I wanted a boy. SN: Did you want all boys? LN: Well yeah, I wouldn't say I wanted all boys. I wanted a boy because I grew up with two sisters and I had never had any boys and I just thought boys would be fun to have because I wanted someone to play soccer with and football with and wrestle with and I just couldn't see me doing that with girls. Although my two sisters are pretty mean both laughing . SN: They picked on you, I'm sure. LN: They picked on me a lot. SN: You were so picked on. 5 LN: I was. SN: I can just imagine Kathy. LN: I thought that my name was Ken both laughing . Because they forced me to play Barbie dolls both laughing . SN: You know this is on tape both laughing . LN: I know. Well, it was the truth! The forced me to be Ken while they played Barbie dolls and I just always wanted a boy. So I was real happy when Brian was born. SN: So did you go out and buy him all of those boy trucks all that stuff? LN: Oh yeah, he got anything and everything because we made really good money at the time considering you know the times. I was making more money than a good friend of mine, Mitch Vilos, who was an attorney who lived right across the street from me. SN: Really? Wow. LN: Yeah. So I was making good money and Julie doing pretty good. We were doing good. We had nice cars and a real nice house to live in. Times were pretty good for us. Brian didn't suffer in that department. SN: So was it planned to have Julie stay home? LN: Yeah, it was, was. Because I made enough money to support it and that's kind of what we decided would happen. Right after that, I got a new job that opened up at the Wells Cargo trailer plant in Ogden and was the operations manager there. We made pretty good money and it was not a hardship being home. It was a comfort to me because we weren't paying daycare and I just knew she was home with the kids. Now days, it’s not 6 all that easy. Back then it was much easier, because you didn't need the two income families to survive. You didn't have the inflationary factory that you have today. Back then we were paying $.30-$.40 per gallon for gas and milk was $.40-$.50 per gallon. So it’s much more difficult now days. Back then to be making $40-$50,000.00 a year was a lot of money. Now days, that's nothing. Times have changed, and I feel bad for that because I think there is a lot to be said for staying home but at same point in time to stave off poverty and be able to live comfortably and provide for your family those options are just becoming less and less available. They really are. But Julie stayed home with him. Brian was a tough baby to raise. He was a tough baby to raise both laughing . I think that a lot of that was because of our inexperience in raising children. At the same point in time, I remember how many nights we would have to put him in the car and go for a ride around the block and ride around downtown Ogden to get him to go to sleep so we could get him to bed. SN: He still tells stories about that. LN: Oh I know. SN: And I am just deathly afraid that we are going to be in the same boat. So I am hoping that our kids... LN: Part of that is because we are stupid for doing it. Both laughing . SN: 'Cos it's the only thing that works? LN: Well it was and then all the sudden that's all that worked both laughing and I remember I could still to this day remember when we finally decided that enough was enough, that we were no longer going to drive around 'til he fell asleep so that we could go to sleep 7 and I will never forget. We put him in the back bedroom and went and sat on the front porch and just listened to him scream, and scream and poor Julie wanted to go in there and get him to quiet down and I said "no, he's got to learn this" and he screamed and he screamed and finally we did go in for a minute and walked back out and then he started to scream again. He finally cried himself to sleep. SN: Oh no... You must have felt just terrible. LN: Oh, it felt horrible doing it to him! It's just one of those tough love things and then the next night, same thing again, but the third night went in and laid him down and he went right to sleep. SN: Third time's a charm huh? LN: And I thought back to all those nights that we spent driving around Ogden both laughing with him in a car seat. But there were times when we would stop at a stop light, this is so funny, but when we would stop at a stoplight, he would wake up and start crying so when I would pull up to a stop light, I would sit and hit the break and hit the break to keep the car rocking a little bit both laughing inching forward to keep him moving, 'cos the moment you would stop, he would wake up and start crying both laughing . SN: That is too funny both laughing . LN: What gave you the idea to try the car, had somebody told you it worked, or were you just desperate? SN: No, we just know, we knew that it worked 'cos every time we would go for a ride anywhere he'd sleep. So we knew that worked. We'd come home from my mom’s or his 8 grandma's or something and he'd sleep and as soon as we'd stop he would wake up both laughing . It was just horrible. It was just a horrible time both laughing . LN: Anyways, he's a healthy kid and we had a nice yard and he played. About that time he... by the time he got to be about six months old we were building the house out in Harrisville. Which took us about six months to build. So by the time he was a year old pretty much, we moved out to Harrisville. Had a nice yard out there, built a big playground in the back yard. We were the only home out in Harrisville in our neighborhood out there in probably for two years that had lawn. SN: Really? LN: Well, you had a lot of starter families that did good to get into a house and they just didn't have a lot of money to put into a yard, and sprinkling systems, and playground equipment and we did and so you know the minute we got out there we put the sprinkling system in, put the yard in and operated heavy equipment on the side and the developer let me use all of his tractors and that and so I... it made it easy. We had play houses and sand boxes and swing sets and jungle gyms. But every day the whole neighborhood was in our yard. SN: I was gonna ask that. Community playground, right? LN: Yeah, yeah it was... 'til the cows trampled it both laughing . SN: Why don't you tell that story? LN: It was September... SN: He even remembers the month both laughing . 9 LN: Well it was really wet, it was September. We had a really wet September in '86, nope before that, nope probably in '83. Jerry Nailer, of Northern Utah Glass had that big pasture out behind us and had all his cows up there. I got up one morning and gone to work and at about 9 o'clock in the morning Julie called just crying and screaming that all of Jerry's cows had got out and decided to head for our yard. It had been raining just weeks on end and our yard looked like a pasture. The hooves had gone down through the sprinkling system pipes, just totally annihilated our yard. SN: Well yours was like a green haven that they had been staring at for years both laughing . LN: It was and then they had gone up the road. Well this is a funny story, 'cos they had gone up the road and by the time I had gotten there, Harrisville City employees had shown up to heard them back to the pasture. Well the way back to the pasture was back through my yard again. I am standing out there now in a suit and tie. SN: Oh no! LN: I've got a 2x4 in my hand and my yard is trashed, but I'll be darned if those guys, those cows are going to come through my yard again both laughing . So a lot of them go around, well there is one bull sitting there looking at me and I'm looking at him and I'm just in tears almost myself. Julie is up on the deck bawling. This cow is standing there looking at me and he starts walking to go across the yard to go back to the pasture and I hauled off and smacked him over the top of the head with the 2x4 and busted the 2x4 and he just looked at me like "why did you do that?" Both laughing and walked right past me, right through the yard like it didn't even matter both laughing . 10 SN: He wasn't fazed at all- like a frat boy both laughing . LN: Not at all. Walked through the yard finished putting more holes in it, back in the pasture, and they locked the gate. My yard totally destroyed. So it took me two years to get it in the first time and it Jerry Nailer had Bob's Landscaping come out and redo it for me and they come out, tore it all out, put it all back in a day. SN: Really? Well that was nice. At least you guys got some new sprinkling system out of it even though you paid in grief. LN: Yeah, yeah. It was a nice home, nice neighborhood, high water table, we had a lot of water problems, had flooding out there, lot of water in the basement. It was just one of those areas that you were glad you were in it, but once you were in it, you wondered if you had made the right move. SN: So there is a picture that I love of Brian. He is probably about two, maybe three years old. He's got his little long shaggy haircut and he is wearing a plaid shirt and he's got on some corduroy little jeans and he's sitting at your desk at work and he's eating a cheeseburger and he's got the biggest grin on his face. Do you remember that? LN: Oh yeah, I used to take him to work. I used to take him to work with me. When I was Operations Manager for Wells Cargo, that was the trailer manufacturing plant down there in Ogden and you know I ran the place, and so I would... Brian used to go to work with... I would take down on Saturdays or you know days that I didn't really have anything going on. SN: What did he think? LN: It was a big step to go to work with dad. 11 SN: Oh yeah! Really cool. LN: It was cool, it was cool, it was really cool. I was there from '81 to '86. It was real cool to go to work with dad both laughing . SN: I just can't get past that look on his face; he looks like he is just the king of the world in that picture. I don't know who has the copy of that, I think maybe we do, it's in our wedding videos. It is just to die for. LN: I think it is, I think you do. They were all; they are just all cute kids. Just real cute kids, good brothers, they get along good. Brian was a... always, always, always looked out for his other brothers and even when they would fight or something like that, Brian was always the protector for David and Jeff. SN: Let’s introduce David and Jeff. LN: David is two years younger than Brian. He was born in February of '81 and Jeff was born in September of '84. There is five years difference between Brian and Jeff, almost five years. Jeff was kind of a surprise. We planned on two. SN: The fact that he wasn't a girl both laughing ? LN: No we had planned on two both laughing . SN: That's really all you guys planned on? Was two? LN: I always looked at like. I thought that two brothers would be great because they would always have someone to do something with and when we went to Disney Land they could always ride the rides together both laughing . Three doesn't work. SN: No, and you've only got two hands, so how does that work? 12 LN: Yeah, so three doesn't work. So we just planned on the two and you know they were fairly close and they were two years apart, they will grow up and they will be good and then that will work out. But you know Jeff was a welcome surprise. SN: What would it be without Jeff? Both laughing . LN: What would it be without Jeff? SN: I don't know laughing . LN: Well and Jeff. Jeff was a little different because the other two were so big. Brian was eight, almost 9 pounds and David was eleven pounds, 10 lb. 8 oz., almost eleven pounds and then we found out at that point that Julie had gestational diabetes and was RH negative on top of that and the doctor was not watching her. We'd switched doctors and this OB was really watching her close, her diet and you know so Jeff was born at six pounds. SN: Really? That's amazing. LN: We thought we had lost David. We thought we lost David. He was so big. When he was born, when he'd start crying he'd black out. He was in the neo-natal intensive care unit for three weeks. SN: Did you go home with him at all during that time? LN: No, he was in an incubator. He was non-responsive to anything. They did a spinal tap on him and didn't even flinch. They were concerned and pretty well convinced at that time that he had some serious brain damage, spinal cord damage because for a baby not to flinch when you do a spinal tap is nothing- I mean that's...he's dead. There is just no feeling. We were extremely worried. We were very, very worried. Some friends of 13 ours who had twins were in there at the same time. Here you have these two little preemie twins of theirs and here's David, eleven pounds in his incubator. SN: A sack of potatoes and little loaves of bread both laughing . LN: He... It took about a week before he started even getting any movement at all. They figure he was just so big at birth. It was the biggest birth that that doctor in 25 years had ever delivered naturally- the biggest baby. He was bragging about it at first, but when they couldn't get him to breathe, then it started scaring him. He was just so lethargic because the baby works so much harder than the mother during childbirth. He was just so lethargic they figured that he was just totally worn out. So he was up there for about three weeks. I remember Brian was ecstatic to finally have his brother home, because he was really worried, he knew that something was wrong 'cos he kept asking why David couldn't come home from the hospital. That broke my heart. SN: I bet. LN: That broke my heart. SN: So what was he doing when you guys were at the hospital? LN: Staying with grandma. SN: Grandma Nelson? LN: Yes. We would drop him off there on our way to the hospital and we took turns up there. I remember that we had the coolest pediatrician; he's retired now, Dr. Olbrook. I went up there one morning at 3:30-4:00 o'clock in the morning and Dr. Olbrook was in the neonatal unit holding David. Rocking him. 65 year-old guy in there. Just went down there to check on him, just rocking him and holding him. 14 SN: Those are one of those moments you don't even want to let 'em to know that you're there. You just want to watch and back away slowly. LN: It was happy day when David finally came home for Brian. 'Cos his little brother was home both laughing . I remember the picture, we've got pictures, but ya know Brian would sit up in the couch or rocking chair you would take David over and put him in his lap and he'd sit there and hold him like this and he would just smile and beam at him. He thought that was the bee's knees to have a little brother around... Until he found out that David started getting all of the attention. Jealousy happens. SN: I think I can vouch for that. It's difficult to accept, because you were top dog all the time 24/7 and then it's like 'gall but then it gets exciting because you become mom and dad’s little helper. Did Brian do a lot of that? LN: That's right, that's right. Oh yeah, between Brian and Jenny our dog. Jenny would keep both David and Brian both getting over by the steps and she'd get between them and the steps and wouldn't let them near it. Yeah it was a lot of fun. Brian was a good kid. Unfortunately when he was about five-years-old he developed asthma. SN: So let’s talk about these "coughing Brian" video tapes- Christmas video tapes. LN: When he's always coughing? SN: Yeah, he would be coughing and you guys would say "oh, that's coughing Brian" But he wasn't diagnosed at this time. LN: We didn't know he had asthma at that point. SN: What was it like back then? I mean was asthma even something you guys were aware of? 15 LN: No, we didn't even know anything about it, 'cos we had never had anything like that in either of our families. Didn't know anything about. Brian was always coughing and he'd run and get tired and you know, finally when we had him checked out and had a good doctor on top of it and then come to discover he had asthma. I think he was probably about seven-years-old when we figured out he had asthma. I'm trying to think back know. I know he had inhalers, because we had them at school 'cos the teachers at school would keep them and give it to him to give him a puff of his inhaler. I think it was unfair. I mean, you can't pick your illness, but I think it really held Brian back from a lot of things that he wanted to do. He always felt like he was insecure and incapable and he never had a... he never had a hug... he always had self-esteem issue and you know, because he was never confident. He always thought he was weak because of his asthma and he was a skinny kid. So never had a lot of self-confidence and he made up for a lot of that in his attitude sometimes you know. Just trying to, trying to be a little bit better than everybody else because he just felt like he wasn't quite there. SN: Did you notice that with kids, the way the treated him? LN: No, no, it was just him. I don't know, I don't think kids made fun of him, 'cos asthma was around and a lot of kids had it, but not near what they do now days. I don't think that there was a question of kids teasing or anything like that, it was more... it was more just within himself, you know, because he knew he had a problem and it just bothered him. Sleepovers and stuff like that was real hard on him. SN: So he was seven. Could he use his own medication at that time or were you guys still having to give it to him? LN: No, he could do it on his own. So he's pretty much had asthma for twenty years. 16 SN: Now, weren't you guys told it was going to go away when he was about eighteen or graduating from high school? LN: Yeah. Well they said that a lot of people, once they reach adulthood it goes away, especially kids that have it that young, they grow out of it. We kept hoping and hoping and hoping, but he never did, never did. At this point in life I don't know if it ever will, which is unfortunate. SN: Well, it's okay; it is who he is now. LN: It’s who he is and he's learned to manage it well and ya know. Brian has always had a temper and unfortunately it's one of the things that sets it off. His emotional, his asthma attacks, were set off more by more of an emotional than a physical issue. When he would get really uptight or real anxiety would set in. There was many times when we had him doing a special study in Salt Lake where ya know, I would get called and have to go down to school and pick him up because he would have an asthma attack and couldn't breathe. Once that happens the anxiety sets in, then you start hyperventilating 'cos you are starving for oxygen and when you are hyperventilating you forget to breathe 'cos of the lack of oxygen and then atrophy sets into all of your limbs. Your hands start curling up and then you start getting scared which makes it even worse. That's why they have people breathe into bags, because it traps the oxygen and gets more oxygen into your lungs. So… SN: He's a big guy. LN: So, yeah, he's a big guy, it was attack after attack. Most of them were always brought on by emotional problems with girls and stuff like that you know and he would get in a 17 fight with a girl or a girl would dump him laughing someone would say something, emotions would set in and then he would have an asthma attack. It was every stinking Christmas or New Years, both laughing every stinking Christmas or New Years for five straight years we had him into the hospital. I don't know what it was about those holidays. SN: Was that when he got older? LN: Yeah, it was when he was getting a little older, you know. SN: He was upset about Santa I believe both laughing . Santa didn't bring him that truck he wanted. LN: No, I don't know. But it just never failed, Christmas and New Year’s we had him in the hospital. SN: Well, it's a pretty stressful time. LN: Yeah, I guess I don't know. Good kid, I don't know what I would do without him. He's grown into quite the man. SN: Okay, so then, let’s talk a little about Jeffrey. You said that Jeff was born in September of '84. LN: September of '84. The last of the three, the little guy. SN: So, were they expecting a girl? LN: Well, they were because we had the ultra sound and they were really watching because of the gestational diabetes and the problems she'd had with letting the babies put on weight. This doctor was not going to let this happen. So he was watching her real close 18 and we actually... they started her with Jeff and he was born a little over six pounds. Real small, but healthy and he was you know. He stayed healthy and he's still a little guy both laughing . SN: He's still a little guy both laughing . LN: He's six foot, but he's not big boned and big structured like David and Brian. SN: No, David took it all, I think. LN: David took it all, but that's always been Jeff’s... self-conscious about that because he's got a little abnormality in his chest bone, his breast plate area in his ribs and it kind of sticks out a little bit. I think he's trying to put on weight to fill, to make him a big guy that in and that's why he spends so much time at the gym. SN: He's done well though. LN: Oh yeah. SN: He really has filled out a lot. I weighed more than he did when I first met him. LN: And he's still growing up, so he's still trying to figure out what he wants to do with his life... SN: In every way possible growing up. But I think it's funny, but not the story about David, but with him being in the ICU and giving him the spinal tap and he didn't give a wink. I could just see that as David today. The klutzy and the... LN: David was a funny one growing up around because he was so accident prone. We moved out into South Weber and almost the day we moved into the house, we are still putting the house together I hear this bawling and screaming and I look out there's 19 David dragging himself up our driveway, it was a steep driveway, dragging himself up himself calling and screaming because he had wiped out on a.. I don't know... He was out on his bike and tried to hit a jump or something on a hole they were digging for a house and messed his knee up and couldn't walk. He was dragging his dead leg up behind him up the driveway. It broke my heart, laughing . SN: But that's just David. LN: That's just David. Where we were out in Harrisville, heard him screaming and went running outside and he'd tried try to climb over the chain link fence and slipped and hung himself upside down and the chain link went under his knee and was hanging him upside down. In South Weber, he was out building a fort with his buddies and got a hatchet of my garage, went to hammer a nail, and laughing pulled it back and put the hatched right in the top of his head. SN: What did Brian and Jeff do with this brother? How did they react to this boy who just couldn't be left alone? Both laughing . LN: Well, it was humorous because he's just... David is just... Brian is a social butterfly and Jeff is kind of that way, but not near as much but David was always everything within himself. He had great friends. David is the kind that when you're a friend, you're a friend for life. He has great friends, because people love being around him because he's so funny. With David he just internalizes everything within himself. He's totally different than the other two. So you never know what's going on inside his head, you just never know. I talk to Brian almost every day, or every other day and he'll call and see what's going on and that and David, I'll go for two weeks and he'll never call me. I finally have to call him and see if he's even alive laughing . But it's no big deal to him. 20 SN: I know laughing . LN: "Yeah, what do you want" Nothing, I was just calling to say hi! TAPE ON THIS SIDE ENDS. TURN OVER TAPE. SN: Part two. LN: Part two. Laughing . SN: Go ahead and finish your thoughts. LN: Well they are just all different, it’s been the joy of my life having three kids. They are... Each one of them is separate into themselves, they have different likes and dislikes, different personalities, and yet there isn't a one of them that wouldn't be there for me when I need him. SN: I know. LN: And that's a good feeling, you know just out of the blue they will pop in and do things or say things or be there. Who would have thought that David would have come over for my birthday and spend a day working in my yard for me. Ya know, and I know they don't have any money and that's fine, but that means more than anything that they could have ever bought. SN: It's always the thought that counts. LN: That's exactly it... And with Brian and Jeff. I went to go pick Wendy up from the airport last night and came home and the house was clean. Jeff did a lot on his own and cleaned up the upstairs so that Wendy would come home to a clean house. They are all 21 thoughtful in their own way and yet they are all little pigs in their own way laughing they are just boys. I wouldn't have it any other way. SN: So are you pretty excited for this new grand baby? LN: I would like a little girl. SN: You would! Really!? LN: Well, I wanted a girl. I always thought... I wanted boys, but it would have been nice if Jeff was a girl both laughing it would have been nice to have one around. SN: Well, sometimes you wonder. I've seen him on Halloween both laughing . LN: Yeah, I've seen him in drag. It would have been nice to have one around, but emotionally I don't know... Maybe that's why I didn't have one, because when Julie and I ended up getting divorced, with three boys and me, I was a pretty good fit. It could have much more difficult and I'm sure I would have loved them... SN: Of course. LN: But a little girl would be nice. SN: You know, Brian thinks it's a girl. Brian's convinced it's a girl, but I am convinced it's a boy. LN: Does he? I don't know, you look at our family, I've got two boys, my sister's got two boys... SN: I know, boys are so heavy in your family. LN: But then you have Kay that had one boy and four girls. SN: Exactly. I don't know, I don't know how it’s going to work out. 22 LN: I don't know, but I guess that'll be between you and God. SN: He's already figured it out, I'm pretty sure. Yep, we find out on the 16th. LN: No we're excited. We're excited. Wendy's thrilled to death. SN: I know, I'm so excited, I really wasn't more happy to tell any other people. I mean you go through life and you think to have my mom and my dad at my wedding and to tell my mom about my first baby, you know what, I was more excited to tell you and Wendy than anybody else because she was just... I could just tell that for so long she had wanted that and it meant the world to us to give her that. LN: You know, she went her whole life not being able to have children. The one thing she wanted more than anything, she couldn't have. She had to have a hysterectomy. We'd looked at adoption and everything. The problem is, is when you're as old as we are adoption isn't real easy. We're not the Brad Pitt's of the world, you can’t just run over to Africa and bring one home both laughing the same weekend. Those days went by. So this will kind of be like her only child and it will be spoiled. SN: Well I think it's the first of many grandbabies that you guys are gonna get. Or at least I hope so. LN: Oh, we'll see... SN: Well, I'm not doing just one. LN: Oh, I know on your side. I think we are a ways down the road on the other one. SN: Well, it’s been almost five years, so it’s time that we start fitting the mold instead of breaking it. 23 LN: Well it's a big change for ya. Your whole life style changes, you can just run out... No, I remember that. We used to, whenever we wanted something jump in the car and go. Once the baby's born, you don't do that anymore. It’s too difficult, the money's not there, it takes a while to where you get used to that lifestyle, but you never really do. Things keep creeping up. Doctor's appointments, and baby's needs and formula and food and diapers. Those things just keep going on and on and on. SN: Oh boy, I am just thrilled both laughing . Can't wait! LN: But that's okay, that's what life's about and you wouldn't want it any other way. SN: And I think that is a perfect place to stop. {RECORDING FINISHED} 24