Oral History Program A. George Raymond Interviewed by Douglas H. Nay 27 February 1973 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah A. George Raymond Interviewed by Douglas H. Nay 27 February 1973 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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Nay, 27 February 1973, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with President A. George Raymond. The interview was conducted on February 27, 1973, by Douglas H. Nay, in Providence, Utah. Raymond discusses the temple located in Logan, Utah and its symbolism. He also talks about his experiences he’s had while being actively engaged in his religious and communal responsibilities. DN: What about the description of the temple, the temple building? AR: The Logan Temple is constructed with quartzite rock, which was taken from a quarry northeast of Logan about five miles distant from the temple and put together by stone masons in the early days of the Church in the Cache Valley. It is construction commenced and the site was dedicated on the 17th of May, in 1877, and the construction took place for the period of seven years and dedicated exactly seven years from that date on 17th of May, 1884, by President John Taylor, then President of the Church. As I have stated, the temple was constructed of stone taken out of the canyon. There is 20,000 tons of rock in the building and the mortar putting the rocks together is as hard as concrete and is actually almost impossible to chisel away even at this date. The towers extend in the air 120 feet, the building is 107 feet long by 96 feet wide and has within it about 92 rooms, not all of course, in use for the ordnances of the temple, but are available for any use that seen fit to use them for. DN: President, the temple is kind of a symbol to the Mormon people particularly, what does the temple mean to the people not only in the Cache Valley but also people who live within Utah and without its bounds? AR: Let me tell you for just a moment and just briefly about symbolism of the Logan Temple to the people and to me particularly. The first place it's a symbol of prophecy. On the 21st of Aug. 1863, President Wilford Woodruff then a member of the quorum of the twelve, attended a conference in Cache Stake with President Brigham Young and others of the quorum of the twelve and during his talk he raised his arm and pointed to the bench east of Logan and said, "on the bench east of Logan city a temple of the Lord will be constructed and members of the Church can stand on the towers of that temple and look over the valley and see dozen of communities which will fill the valley. The time will come when the construction of buildings and business houses will extend from Logan City to Smithville on the north without a break. Will be a solid construction between those two communities." And he made other prophecies and therefore it's a symbol of prophecy. It's also a symbol of industry as indicated by the following: The temple, of course, became the chief interest to the people at that time and there were many industries established. First there was a sawmill five miles up Mount Maun Fork now Temple Fork or about 25 miles northeast of Logan in which the lumber was obtain to build the temple. There is over one million feet of lumber in the temple, all native pine. It was water powered, this sawmill, and the machinery for it was made in a foundry in Logan, built exclusively for the purpose of making the machinery for building the Logan Temple. The roads had to be built from the forks of the Logan Canyon up to the mill. The mill was a community within itself. There was cooks quarters, had religious services, had socials one a week, they held dances and the women who were employed there cooked and cleaned and attended to the work for the men at the sawmill. They had socials together with dances and so on. 1 The temple is a mass of construction. In 1963, I think it was, a violent earthquake took place in Cache Valley. Many homes in neighboring towns of Richmond and Smithville and west of there were damage to the extent that they had to be condemned and torn down. The Logan Temple suffered some from that experience. The plaster was jarred loosed in many of the rooms. The weathervane on the tower west of the temple was shaken off. Casting, two inches in diameter, was shaken off, but there wasn’t any damage to the construction of the temple itself. The walls are as solid today as they ever were and I think the temple could be tipped over or rolled over and there wouldn't be any damage to the masonry or construction of the temple itself. So it's a very substantial building. There was a lot of inspiration that went into the Logan Temple though they didn't have electric light at the time it was constructed. There was places and provision for conduits. They were placed within the temple so when lights could be put in they could be installed without tearing the building apart or taken off the plaster. The floors were all made of native lumber. The roof is a cantilever type and the large assembly room on the fourth floor of the temple does not have any pillars to hold the roof up. It's sort of a bridge construction and is what the celling joints in the building are 24 X 18 inches each. One held up from the roof and rafters by rods that are two inches in diameter, steel rods, so the construction is tremendous. The banister and stairs are all carved and the workmanship is excellent throughout the temple. Beside from the sawmill and the construction part of the temple, there was a rock quarry in Green Canyon where the lime stone and quartzite was taken for the building of the temple. There was another quarry in Hyde Park Canyon where the soft limestone which could be shaped for the harness and windows and windows frames was taken. Also a rock quarry in Franklin County, where the sand some for the trim and cap stone and etc. was taken. There was a wood camp up Logan Canyon about 15 miles where fire wood was obtain for the lime kiln, poles for the scaffolding of the temple were obtained, and telephone poles were obtained for sell to get money for paint and so on, as well as railroad ties from the wood camp. There was a lime kiln two miles up Logan Canyon where all the lime was manufacture for the making of plaster and mortar to put the temple together. Adjacent to the temple ground there was feed yards for horses and oxen, that were used, of course, for derrick hoist to hoist the rock from the ground floor up to the walls of the building. And there was also a kitchen and a waiting place for the workmen and many young boys and some who still live remember being water boys carrying water to the works to the workmen who worked on the temple. All labor was donated, credit was given as a contribution. Total cost of the building including the furnishings was about one million dollars, and to replace the building today would cost in the neighborhood of about five million dollars . There has been a lot of activity in the Logan Temple. Up to and including the time the Ogden and Provo Temples were dedicated, almost 20% of all the ordinance work in all of the temples of the Church was done in the Logan Temple; something exceeding 16 million ordinances had been performed up to that time. The temple means a great deal to Cache Valley. It's a real attraction to tourists. It attracts tourists from all over the world to come here on the highways between Salt Lake City and Yellowstone Park, they wonder what that tremendous building is on the hill in Logan. So it is a great tourist attraction. During the summertime guides are appointed to conduct tourist around the grounds and explain the workings of the temple. 2 It's also an outlet for active agent people, people who have retired from their farms, from their business and other things, and it attracts many people to come to Logan to buy homes to work in the temple. It has great significant and meaning to the people in the valley. DN: President, there was one thought that crossed my mind as you was describing the temple and its construction, were there any injuries in the building of the temple? AR: There were one or two accidents that could have been fatal during the construction of the temple, but I am very happy to tell you that there was not one fatality during the construction of the building in seven years. At one time a scaffold clasped and one of the men fell. History says that he fell between 25 to 30 feet and he hit on a pile of rock, but it happened that they were some horse blankets that had been folded and placed on top of the rocks so he landed on those horse blankets and not even a bone was broken. The next day he was a t work on the temple after that fall. That was the only recorded incident I know of during the construction. DN: As an L.D.S. person as I am, I have labored within the temple and I know of the ordinance and how you go about through the session taking and working your endowments and so forth. In comparing with the Logan Temple and with the Ogden Temple being the newest temple in this area; in the Ogden Temple they have the film presentation of the endowment, do you believe there will be a day that they will convert this within the Logan Temple itself? AR: That has been discussed. It was discussed with me by President McKay when I was presiding in the temple, and he sent me down to the Los Angeles Temple for a week to study the procedure down there for the film, and I came back to report that it could be done in the Logan Temple but it would take a tremendous amount of remodeling and reconstruction to make room for the cameras and the projectors and other equipment that would be needed. So at the present time I think there has been no decisions made, however, during 1974 and 5, there is a remodeling program being thought for the Logan Temple and it maybe that they will adapt that practice in the Logan Temple, but I don't know I haven't been advised. DN: We were talking about symbolism, of course, we know as Mormons how sacred the symbolism that lie within the temple is; the symbolism that lie outside of the temple as people look at the temple and so forth, do you have any examples that you might be able to refer to have a recall on, what the symbols mean to the individual or a group of people so forth? AR: We have had many excursion on the grounds of the Logan Temple, tourist, members of the institutes and seminaries organizations that have come there to hold meetings, religious meetings and spiritual meetings on the temple grounds, and many many times people have talked with me as I have met them on the temple grounds about the beauty and the symmetry and the construction of the temple. They stand on the grounds and look up those walls 100 feet tall and see the accuracy; the way the rocks have been fitted in. It's just an inspiration for them to see it. At the top of the second large window on the east of the temple there is a stone, a key stone that is carved at the arch and carved on that stone is these words, "Holiness to the Lord." I have seen tourist stand with bowed heads with their heads uncovered worshiping God after looking at that some, "Holiness to the Lord." There are many other symbols, symbol of safety. There was a group of young air corps men flying from the base of Las Vegas, Nevada, one of the boys who was flying the plane was a member of the Church, and having been through the 3 temple, was in charge of the instruction of these boys. They were in flight from Las Vegas to other points. They were flying a night and it was a storming night and they were flying entirely by instruments and their instruments went out of order and failed to function. The boys didn't know where they were. The pilot of the plane happened to be this Latter-day Saint boy, and he circled and circled, he knew his altitude was sufficient and that he wouldn't hit a mountain because his elevation was higher than the mountains around. He was afraid that he would run out of gas, out of fuel. Finely, while circling around the clouds parted and he looked down and right straight beneath where they were flying was the Logan Temple, illuminated at night. It is illuminated at night all the time now, but he saw this temple and he turned to his companions and said, "boys I know exactly where we are, don't worry we'll get back alright." So they started back for their base and the storm cleared and they arrived back without incident. But he would hot known where he was had it not been for the illumination of the temple of the Lord. Then there are others: symbols, symbol of sacrifice. An uncle of mine was hailing lumber from the wood camp, or from the temple sawmill in Temple Fork Canyon. One winter day on bobsleighs, and it was 20 below zero, as he came down the canyon his feet went numb and he didn't know the feeling left him, didn't know that they were frozen until he got to Logan. By the time he got home the circulation had entirely stopped. His feet were blue and they had to be amputated all the toes of both feet, up to the arch of his feet. He spent 60 years of mature adult life with his feet chopped off half way up his foot. Many other sacrifices were made during the construction of the temple. The women of the three stakes woven carpets and by the time the temple was dedicated there was over three miles of carpets in the Logan Temple hand made by the women of these three stakes. DN: I have heard a lot about the symbolism of the temple myself. I have read the book, as an example, Temples of the Most High, much was said, of course, about the things that has happened within the temple and things that have happened outside the temple walls. How many presidents have been president of the Logan Temple, President Raymond? AR: The eighth president is presiding now, President Heaton. There have only been eight presidents of the temple. I can named them, the first was Pres. Marion W. Merrill who was also a member of the Quorum of the Twelve; Pres. William Budge; Pres. Joseph R. Shepherd; Pres. William A. Noble; Pres. Joseph Quinney Jr, Pres. El Ray Christiansen, now an Assistant to the Quorum of the Twelve; myself and now President Elvie W. Heaton who has been presiding for the last four years. DN: I was talking to Dr. Sadler one evening after his lecture and he brought up about the prayer circles, prayer circles outside of the temple. We know of the prayer circles within the temple. This was quite astounding to me and Pres. Raymond, I was wondering if you had any comment on prayer circles outside of the temple? AR: There are some wards and stakes who conduct prayer circles similar to the actual prayer circles within the temple itself which are part of the temple endowment. One that I know of which I have visited is in Clarkston, Utah. They have room furnished and dedicated and set apart specifically for that activity in that ward, least monthly or more frequently the bishopric, the auxiliary heads of the respected auxiliaries of the ward, ward teachers perhaps and sometimes others meet in that circle where the spiritual and religious services are held prior to their other meetings, to prepare themselves spiritually for their work. There are other places where prayer circles have been organized in stakes and there are two stakes in our 4 valley at the present time with permission from the First Presidency are holding stake prayer circles in the temple itself on Fast Sundays every month. They were organized by President Joseph Fielding Smith and Brother Mark E. Petersen of the Counsel of the Twelve, during my administration as president of the temple with their complete approvals. DN: What is the purpose of conducting prayer circles outside of the temple? AR: The purpose of it is to get a unity, to unify the work in the wards and the stakes and bring the people closer together in a bond of worship, which of course does draw men and women together. Worship in this Church and activity in the Church presidency and various organizations makes people humble and they can gain humility and strength and inspiration from these activities conducted as a prayer circle in their stake. They do it totally for the purpose of unifying the work of the Lord in the stakes. DN: I failed to mention your active now since you have been released as President of the Logan Temple, that both you and your lovely wife, to my understanding, are temple workers within the Logan Temple this day. AR: Yes, we are still officiating in the temple. Some few weeks after my release, after we had taken a few trips to visit our children, we came back to our home in Logan and President Heaton came to me on the temple grounds one day as I was returning from there to my home and asked me if we would continue workings as officiators in the temple under his direction. I told him I would be very happy and honored to do that if he wanted us to. We gain a great deal of satisfaction and joy and appreciation from our work as officiators in the temple now, now that we have been released of the responsibility of presidency. To my mind it is one of the best ways in the world to occupy time of retired people who are advanced in years. It isn't strenuous, it's spiritual, it's uplifting. It's just everything to be desired to round out a person life and make themselves useful during the years of age. DN: I would like to thank you personally for this opportunity of coming into your home and having you help me out on this project, talking about the symbolism of the temple. Response I can't think of any one thing, any one activity in the Church that is more admirably prepares people to live with God than temple work. It's the crowning achievement of man's activity on this earth. 5