Oral History Program Mary Andrus, Sarah Hansen, and Jarvin Warner Interviewed by Joyce Slye 10 August 1972 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Mary Andrus, Sarah Hansen, and Jarvin Warner Interviewed by Joyce Slye 10 August 1972 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Andrus, Mary; Hansen, Sarah; Warner, Jarvin, an oral history by Joyce Slye, 10 August 1972, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Mary Andrus, Sarah Hansen, and Jarvin Warner. The interview was conducted on August 10, 1972, by Joyce Slye, in the home of Mrs. Hansen, 678 East 200 South, Spanish Fork, Utah. Andrus, Hansen, and Warner discuss their childhood in Spanish Fork, Utah and some Icelandic history. JS: First, I'd like to have you maybe go back a little bit and tell me something about your childhood, some things you remember about Spanish Fork and some of the memories that your parents had? MA: Well, it was just a little hard for us because our parents didn't speak the English language. We spoke Iceland in our home and when we began to go out and go to school we had kind of a hard time, but my father learned to talk quite soon. He worked away from home and mother stayed home and it was many years before she could speak the English language. But she did get so she could speak it. She was very industrious and was either knitting socks or carding wool or quilting a quilt. She quilted quilts for people. And I can remember as a child, there was nearly always a quilt in our front room and it was hoisted up to the ceiling at night so that we had plenty of house room. Father had fixed some kind of a hoist so that it could be hoisted up there. Father was a good provider. We seemed to have the necessities of life. He always had cattle and sheep and a beef was killed every fall and it was usually brined, what you couldn't freeze of it. We had brined beef until spring. We was always glad when it was gone when we could have some fresh and now I think of how I would love to have a piece of that brined and that smoked too. We had a smoke house, our folks didn't have a smoke house but across the street had one and they used to smoke some of it for us. That was 1 our Christmas meat and that was supposed to be something really choice, to have this smoked meat. And of course, we attended school here and got along fairly well in school. I had just a little bit of trouble. Some of them, you know, called me a Icelander and threw my hat up in a tree but after I got a little older and got a little spunk about me I stuck up for myself and I got along pretty good. My mother would send me to the store with a big basketful of eggs to get groceries and they would sometimes take some of my eggs away from me, I was rather bashful about sticking up for my own self. JS: Where was the old school that you attended? MA: Well, we attended the little red school house here on the bench and Ideal School. It isn't called Ideal now. What is it called? I don't know what it is called. We went to the Central school too. I remember when we were in the fifth or sixth grade David T. Lewis was the teacher and he said I bet if you ever live long enough for the Central School to be torn down, in the south east corner of that church there is a box in there, a tin box with all the names of everybody that helped to build that schoolhouse. I've told that to my children and grandchildren because they are thinking some of tearing that down. Sarah, I'll let you take over now. JS: Don't you have any funny little incidences that happened to you? SH: My health was so poor all the time that I didn't enjoy things like some of the kids at school. I always loved to go to school. I was a little afraid that anything might happen. The boys were quite rough those days and sometimes they would get into a little trouble and the teachers, they didn't mind at all to get rough with them and lock them up in the bell room. That is where they locked the boys and. I used to worry about those boys being locked up in there. Course, they didn't hurt them any, but they were wild and they 2 were rough. We had good teachers, I really learned a lot and I loved to go to school. I loved to sing and I used to sing quite a lot with the -ids in church and in Primary and we had Primary right in the school. Right after school was how we had Primary. JS: Were most of the kids L.D.S.? SH: Yes, most of them were. There were some that belonged to the Lutheran church, another little church up here on the bench. We went to the Central School after we got out of the little red school house. I think I went there about two years and then I went to the Central school and we had a lot of nice experiences there. We had a lot of nice teachers. I remember I got a special promotion in the fifth grade. Mary was upstairs; she was a little ahead of me. Mr. _______was the teacher and I had a special. . .I had to go upstairs to school and it really worried me and I know how bad they felt when they saw all of us little kids. They said now what are they doing up there and they said 'They've been promoted to the sixth grade.' I can remember Mary didn't feel very good about that and none of them did. I think we had quite a hard time keeping up but anyway we got along pretty good and we made it through the sixth grade and then we were in the seventh grade the next year. I think we still stayed in the Central School up in 'Nigger Heaven.' Then after that we were really graduated and then we had to go to high school but they only had two classes in high school that year. That was the first they had had and we didn't get very much education after we were promoted from the sixth grade. We did have a year and maybe a little more. I think we had really good teachers and we learned the fundamentals and that was important. I really learned the fundamentals. And then I went on to the Ideal School down in the 4th ward and I went to high school 3 there for two years and that was quite an experience for me and I got quite a lot out of that. We had real good teachers and we learned a lot. JS: Do you remember any teachers that stand out in your mind? SH: Well, I can't think of his name. Will Hughes was our favorite. ________ Bradford. I'll tell you what he did. He was quite a rough character but we thought he was real mean. He was quite rough with the boys but they earned it a lot of times but he used to have the grade on spelling and he would go challenge the other classes with a spelling match and we would go in there and spell and spell and 'pert near' every time we'd spell them down. I said all we did learn was to sing and spell but we did learn that. After that we went down there to the Ideal and who were the teachers there. He was from the 3rd ward. JS: Ron, did you say his name was? SH: Yes, Ron. He was the teacher there and John T; Morgan was our favorite teacher there. I think everyone liked him that went to him. He was so good and kind and he was a good teacher too. You did your work. But Lee Bradford was hard. Bat anyway we learned to sing and spell, I'll tell you. JS: Do you think that school was a lot harder then than it is for kids now? SH: I believe it was harder. I really do. Still they have a lot of things that we didn't have at all and I think that they teach different now days than they did in them days, although we did get the fundamentals—reading, writing, and arithmetic. 4 JS: Bessie Hales told me about a Christmas party that you used to have in an old framed church house. Do you remember those Christmas parties? She said that you even had to say a little part one time. SH: Oh, the little old church right down here on the corner. Oh, yes. That's where the Icelandic people that held Christmas at the little church. It was a one room little church with benches on both sides and it had a little stand about three or four steps up and for Christmas, they always had a Christmas tree and we just lived for Christmas because we had so much fun. We looked forward to that because we always had candy. They were plain*. I don't remember of having any nuts and things like that but it was just a. . . and there was always an orange, and we loved the Christmas there and a nice program and everyone had to take part and I remember I had to give a little verse and I remember part of that verse. It said, 'I have a present on the tree and I hope it is a doll.' And it was a doll, I got the doll and I was happy. We really didn't have very much. MA: They had a committee that visited every Icelandic home and everybody gave what they could afford to give for the party. If you wanted to give you daughter a doll, then you'd have to furnish the doll and it would be put on the tree. The1 they bought candies and nuts and oranges and it was really a nice treat and the programs were. And then all the parents and the children just looked forward to that. JS: Was it more like an Icelandic Christmas or did you follow the American tradition of Christmas? SH: I think it must have been the American, don't you? 5 MA: I think it must have been. SH: We just had a nice little program and that was about all and Santa Claus came and brought the Christmas for the little children. MA: She probably told you about the Icelandic days that they celebrated. JS: No. MA: The Icelandic people celebrated on the second day of August. That was the day that they come here so they have a bid celebration and it was a celebration right over here. There used to be a big store over there and right by the side of that store they built a great big _______ and it was big enough for a dance floor and then it had a shade over it made of willows and they danced and had all kinds of food to eat and should we tell her about the coffee In the afternoon there was a big kettle of coffee and somebody took care of that and you got coffee and doughnuts. That was in the afternoon and anybody that wanted coffee and doughnuts could help themselves and it was all free. Course, everybody, I guess, had given something and they always had a little surplus of money left from their Iceland day. Whether they charged a little for their dance I don't remember, but they always had a little surplus money. We have got so much money in the treasury for our party for next year and they still celebrate it but they've changed the day. Just last week we were to one down at Arrowhead. JS: Was it well attended? MA: No, not too well attended. I think the trouble is that they're a little bit too young, the ones they've put in at the head of it, and they don't take it quite as serious as us older people do. And what they had in the ^press it said, 'Iceland day August 5, Saturday. Come and 6 have fun1 and that is all there was to it. If they would have said what was going on, people might have come. More people might have come but there was fairly good. We just drove down. I drove down with my neighbor. We didn't take any lunch but they were having their dinner there and sports for the children. JS: Now, that has made me curious. It seems that the Icelander's are about the only nationality around that celebrates an Iceland day or remember the patriotism for their country. Why do you think that is? MA: I don' know. Now, she lives in San Diego and they celebrate it there, what Icelanders is there. They told her down there the other day that there was a woman there, an Icelandic woman and her sister lives in San Diego and she said that they'd always had such lovely celebrations in San Diego but it was dying out too and they weren't quite as good as they have been. SH: Well, the younger ones take a hold like the older people do. MA: And on their centennial here they had a big celebration and had it here in Spanish Fork and every Icelandic family in Spanish Fork made a float for it. When the President said everybody's got to make a float I says, 'that couldn't be done.' We were on the committee, Sarah and I. We have never built floats and who was going to help us build a float. Our family was supposed to build a float of the ______ and our children remember being on that float now. How long since that? SH: I don't know. That seems a long time to me. 7 MA: About ten years, I guess. And they said that we were on the float and danced and had a picnic table in one corner and a light house built on a wagon and it was pretty good and I didn't think we could do it. JS: It surprises you what you can do, doesn't it. I’d like to have seen that. MA: Oh, they had some beautiful floats and they had a big dinner down in one of the big churches down on Main Street. I think they charged so much for the dinner; had somebody put this dinner on and charged so much. My, talk about a lot of people. They came from all over— Canada and all over for that centennial. JS: You know, I was really impressed when I started doing Spanish Fork history, how many of the Icelanders kept in touch with the families and with the Iceland. MA: I don't know if you know what they're doing now? JS: No. MA: We have a monument built right up here. I don't know if you know anything about it but there's a monument and it's quite a nice monument. In fact, that's real nice and they have the names of all the first Icelanders that came to Spanish Fork. Well, now the Icelandic people are so thrilled about this and have heard so much about this monument that they want a monument in Iceland just like it with the names of those that left Iceland and they've asked us, each family, to contribute $25 (and of course, that wouldn't be very much—now, like Sarah and I, we have got quite a few children and each one maybe give a dollar) and send that to Iceland so that they can erect a monument there. I thought that was quite interesting. 8 JS: I understand that neither one of you lived in a dug-out. Do you remember anything about the old dug-outs up on the bench? MA: Well, I remember of my mother talking about this dug-out. When my father first come here he didn't have much money and he had two boys. When he left Iceland, his wife took suddenly very sick. That was my mother so he had to leave her there and she came with the next company but when she got here she got sick again and was an invalid the rest of her life. And my mother had come out here about, I think, a little earlier and she come with the intention of marrying a man that was coming out here too. When he come out here he didn't like it here and he went back to Iceland. So, she was left here all alone. So she went in and kept house for my father and these two boys in this dug-out and mother said it was just a two-room dug-out and she said it was right nice. Father had made it all his own self and. . . SH: Wasn't it right back in here, Mary? MA: Well, I think it was. SH: Seems like I remember the dug-out. It was there but we never did live in it but it seems like I remember that. MA: Mother never did live in it very long. SH: It had a little shade all, something like a porch over it. There was quite a few dug-outs. That dug-out down there by the cemetery was about the nicest one. And that isn't too long ago. It isn't still there, is it? MA: No, it isn't. That was really a nice one, and the lady that lived in there, I don't know what their last name was but. . . 9 SH: Wasn't it Geslison? MA: Well, that was his name. His name was ____________ and her name was Guita. SH: Wasn't it Geslison? MA: It could've been. I tried to find out this morning because I was quite interested in that dug-out. I went in that dug-out. My husband died in October and I was going to the cemetery and it was getting cold weather, somewhere near December and this lady that lived there, she was sort of a hermit, you might say, but she was awfully good to everybody. Hardly anybody went there and she didn't 70 anywhere, and she saw me coming and she knew me so she come out there and I could understand Icelandic so she come out in Icelandic and she says, *0h, you dear sweet thing,' she says, 'I feel so sorry for you. You're going to the cemetery and it's cold weather.' She says, 'when you come back, stop in and I'll fix you some hot milk’ and I thought, well, if she wants to do that for me I'm going to go in there. So I did, I went in there and her house was just spotlessly clean and she had her spinning wheel sitting there. And the walls, I was so surprised how smooth the walls were and if I remember right, they were white washed but I might be wrong about that. JS: The dirt was white washed? MA: Yes. Her name was Guita and she was quite a character. They never had any children. I think it's too bad that somebody never took a picture of these dug-outs. SH: It was nice. JS: Me too; I would love to have had a picture of that dug-out. I asked you before about if you had any particular trouble when you started school or when your parents came, if 10 they had any trouble becoming part of the community and she mentioned something that they did, about the language. Why don't you tell us something about that? MA: It was really rough on them. My mother was a little backward and she couldn't speak the English language and she really had a hard time. And she said that, this I guess was before she was married to my father, but when they'd go to town they had rocks throwed at them and they just wasn't accepted. SH: Well, Mary, wasn't it once when you went to the store for mother or something that the kids took the eggs out of the basket and that you were going to the store with these eggs and they took these eggs and broke them and they weren't very nice. They just weren't very nice, a lot of them and that's too bad. MA: But it didn’t like it was too long. It seemed like we were blessed, that we learned quickly and some of the honor students in the class was Icelanders. That's right. There's some of the best educated people in Spanish Fork were Icelanders. We didn't have that education but I'm really proud of the Iceland people, the amount of professors that have been prominent and bishops and things. But it took quite a while for them to get accepted like they would like to be. JS: Was that just because of their language or were there any other problems? SH: Well, they couldn't speak. . . MA: I don't know but I've wondered if they dressed a little different or something. I don't know about that. JS: How about their financial status. Did they have a harder time than some of the other people or did they come that much later that it was harder on them? 11 MA: I think they all got along pretty good. One thing about the Iceland people, they helped one another! Now when our folks would butcher a beef in the fall, Sarah and I and the boys were sent with beef all over the bench area. Then when they would butcher one, why, we'd get some of theirs. SH: And then the milk. We'd take buckets of milk to people that didn't have. That is the way they did, they helped each other. MA: They have still got a lot of that in them, helping one another. JS: The ones that I have met sure have been wonderful. I've been tremendously impressed. MA: They really are wonderful people. I am proud to be an Icelander. SH: I am too. JS: What did your father do for a living? MA: Well, he didn't have any trade. He worked on the railroad for many, many years and was really a hard worker. One thing I can remember so well is we grew poplar trees all along this, they owned all this property down to the next house and when the trees got big enough, father would cut the tree down and in the winter time when we didn't have wood, father would cut wood up, saw wood and cut it. When the boys got big enough they would help too and there was always a stack of wood. We had a grainery out here. There was always a big stack of wood like this, enough wood to use all summer long. Well, then they were clearing the lands and sage brush is often good to work with. It makes a nice quick fire and we had a great big stack of brush (sage) and, oh, some of the roots are this big around and the fine stuff sure could brew a cup of coffee in a hurry. Our folks used coffee but they taught us when they came out here with the 12 Gospel that it wasn't right so we didn't use it. The children won't say that we never have drank it though, but then we don't drink it. But they did enjoy their coffee and. they'd have a little. . If a person came to your home to visit, you would feel embarrassed if you didn't have a cup of coffee and a lump sugar or a treeburger to give them. JS: What is that? SH: Well, it's sort of a doughnut. It is an Iceland cake. It's hard, not soft. I don't know how they make them. MA: It's something like French toast. They were like a biscuit. We had very plain food to eat. There was lots of soup and there was rice. Mother could make the best soup I believe we could ever eat and then they would cook a great big pan of rice in the oven, you know, in milk and it was delicious. We got a little tired of it as kids. SH: I still like it, though. MA: The only thing that father wouldn't have is he wouldn't let us have any pork. JS: Why? MA: It says in the Bible to not eat pork so he wouldn't let us have any pork. JS: That's strange. MA: It says something about the swine not being good for man, in the Bible somewhere. And he never would raise a pig and we all liked a little pork. We had friends, I went with a girl who lived up on the bench and her folks always raised a pig and if I went there and they were eating she said, 'Honey, I think you'd better sit Mary down. She'd like a little piece of this pork.' 13 SH: They were awfully good when they slaughtered a pig or slaughtered a beef. It was always divided up with each other and there was always a piece sent here and sent there. They just thought of each other like that all of the time. JS: Sometimes I wish it was still that way. SH: Sure, sure. They did share with each other. JS: I think that's marvelous. MA: I think a lot of these people that butchered a pig, beef sometimes don't begin to use all of the pig they have and they don't think about some of us that can't afford to buy it. It's the thought, though. JS: If we did a little more trading and things like that our food might not be so expensive right now. MA: It wouldn't be so expensive and we could all have a little fresh meat. JS: Do you remember any people that stand out in your mind, any Icelanders that did anything special in Spanish Fork? SH: Well, there's quite a few. Vic Liefson is one I think that has sure been outstanding in the town and done a lot of good. And what about Joe Nelson? MA: Yes, Joe Nelson. SH: Joe Nelson is a lawyer. MA: What was Bearnsons name? He was an educator. Lofter. He was a college professor and right now he has a son by the same name that's a college professor and I understand that he's teaching Iceland literature at one of the universities here. 14 JS: Now, there's a Bearnson over to the "Y" I understand. After all the interviewing I have done it seems like the Icelanders have just really been book lovers and education lovers. Is that true? MA: One that we have got now that is doing an awful lot of work in Genealogy is Jack. Bearnson I understand that you're going to talk with Eleanor Javis. That's her brother. He's got a great big library of Iceland literature. She would have all of her friends come and they would really have a good time around that quilt and there was always a big pot of soup put on, the favorite soup and usually we made ice cream. We had an ice cream freezer and Sarah and I would freeze the ice cream. There wasn't room around the quilt for us to quilt. We got the dinner and washed the dishes. There was one of the ladies, she said, 'Oh, I think we're tired of quilting. Let's get up and dance around the quilt' and she'd get up and some of them would follow her and skip around the quilt and come and sit down. They even had night quilting sometimes; they would come in the evening and when they didn't get the quilt done, it was hoisted up to the ceiling for another day. JS: Did they give these quilts away or were they making them for somebody special or selling them? MA: Well, my mother made them to make a living. My father died when I was 16 and she had to make her own living for five children and she knit stockings. She made her own yarn, carded her own wool and made her own yarn and knitted stockings and sold them to the farmers here and they were just clamoring in the wintertime for these wool stockings, and then she quilted quilts and braided rugs to make a living for us. She had a few chickens and I think then they had a cow— the boys were big enough to. . .my father 15 had bought five acres of ground on the bench and they harvested that hay so we got along. Sarah and I was big enough we could thin beets and things like that, you know, to help make a living. JS: Sounds like you always got in and worked. SH: Yea, we had to work. Work was a blessing, though. It is still a blessing. JS: And you arranged the hay, too? SH: We didn't do the hay. I don't remember doing any hay, Mary do you? MA: No, and the boys were not really big enough before father died to do anything in the hay and I think he hired somebody to bring the hay in and then he bought extra hay because he had three or four head of cattle there and he was very particular about that hay. It had to be taken care of. He came home on weekends and I'll tell you, the boys never had any hay around the stack. It was all gathered up. He couldn't waste anything. SH: It was all cut in little squares and you could almost walk up the steps to get to the top of the stack. It was that neat. It was cut with a hay knife. Just steps all the way. JS: Did you bind it some way? SH: No, it was when they hauled it in they'd always make a good stack out of it and they’d stomp the hay down and it was firm and then when they cut it with this sharp hay knife, it would just never move. They would take it out in bunches and they never wasted nothing. JS: That was a hard way to raise hay wasn't it? MA: And he raised hay on all this ground here. We lived in this house right here. 16 JS: Next door? MA: And then this is Sarah's home and my home is down below though I don't live there now, my daughter lives there. But, this was all in hay and peaches and plums and we cut fruit in the summertime and dried it and sold it. It was in trees, this place was, and hay was raised in between the trees. JS: This was a full little lot then, wasn't it? MA: I have very often dreamed about this place the way it used to be, about gathering the fruit and the hay and things like that, you know. JS: You don't happen to have any old pictures? MA: No, they never took any pictures. Mother just had no pictures. She had a picture of me and my sister that died, and that's about it. JS: Probably couldn't afford it. MA: No, they couldn't afford it, I guess. JS: Now, this home was built in those days, this one next door? MA: That was my mother's home, it was two rooms and after my father died, I guess, he left a little insurance and they built a little more on to it. There was two rooms and a little. . . we called it a shanty. In the summertime she would cook the meals out there and in the wintertime it was more of a storage. JS: You said your father came home on weekends. Did he work away? 17 MA: Yes, he worked away. Thistle or up in Labelton and he would come home on weekends and we seen that everything was in order before dad came home. He was so fussy, we wouldn't waste nothing. SH: Well, they couldn't waste anything. Any kind of food on the table, you wasn't to take any more on your plate than you could eat and if you had butter on your bread that was enough without any preserves, too. But we always had ample to eat. JS: It seems like now that we have so much that ... SH: We have too much. We don't appreciate things like they did. JS: I think if sometimes we had to go back we would appreciate things. SH: Yes, we would. JS: This has been wonderful talking to you ladies JS: You started to tell a story about when your parents first came and they couldn't speak the language and you had special church. Why don't you tell us that story again?" MA: When my parents first came out here, they came out here for the Gospel but they couldn't go to church because they couldn't understand the English language so they decided to build a church of their own and it was called the Iceland Church and it was L.D.S. and they had a man that was put in charge of it for a certain length of time, just like a bishop only he wasn't called a bishop aid we had Sunday School and we had Sacrament meetings there all the time and it was through this group that this Christmas party was held. This same group that went to the Iceland Church had the Christmas party at Christmastime with a big Christmas tree and treats for everybody," 18 JW: Talking about the people who couldn't understand the language, when I was a little kid, my parents used to speak Iceland quite a lot and when they wanted to talk about something they didn't want* us kids to understand they would always talk in Iceland and the funny part was, most of the time we understood, although we couldn't speak very much Iceland, we understood most of the things that they said. I remember one time that mother was talking to William Jonsson or Commissioner Jonsson and he was talking about some man who was working for him and they didn't want me to understand so Mr. Jonsson said, in Iceland, that this fellow was too lazy to eat all he wanted and I that that was real strange that anybody could possibly be that lazy so I asked mother how come that fellow was so lazy that he didn't want to eat anything and she was surprised that I could understand. SH: That wasn't too long ago. JS: Do you still speak Icelandic? SH: Oh, yes. I can't speak very well. MA: We talked it all the time in our home and when I meet an Iceland person I think, 'Well, I can talk to them alright.' I had a lady just last week at this Icelandic celebration and they introduced her and said that she was an Iceland lady and I thought, 'Well, I can greet her ‘and I had an awful time greeting her and I knew what to say and I couldn't say it. Oh, I did fairly good. I talked just about as good as she did. She was born here too. Her parents came from Iceland. SH: This is how we would always greet the Icelanders. (How are you?) JW: That means 'Hello. How are you.’ 19 JS: Do you remember anything else in Iceland? JW: If you would ask them how they felt, they would say, ‘ MA: That was a saying that my mother had. And we passed it on and all the kids say it. You use it don’t you, or do you? JW: What was that? MA: (Uncertain of spelling) My kids all say that. What it means is that it’s better for you to probably suffer than to hurt someone else. It is better to leave them alone rather than have strife with somebody. JW: When grandmother would leave her house and she wouldn’t want us kids to go in, she would always say for us not to go in there, 'Tomleiki' would get us, and we were scared to death of 'Tomleiki', although we didn't know who he was. I think ‘Tomleiki' means 'nothing', so we were scared of nothing. JS: You mentioned something about a Lutheran church up here you were going to tell me about. MA: Yes, there was a Lutheran church on 8th East and Center. JW: Between 8th and 9th East and they was the Lutharian people that went there. They didn't belong to the Mormon Church. They all went to this church up here. SH: Many of those people were Icelanders. MA: There were many Icelanders. SH: But, that is their main religion. 20 JW: What was the Iceland pastor's name, Runolfson. They called him Runky. They had a Christmas tree that was separate ^rom ours here 3nd they would invite us to come but we was kinda hesitant about going up there since we didn't belong to the church but we went up there one time and when they passed the candy out, the pastor come along with the candy and he said 'These are my kildren. These are not my kildren. SH: We didn't belong. We didn't get any candy. MA: He came out here for the Gospel. And when he got out here he couldn't make a living so he had learned to be a pastor so he decided to be a pastor. I can just see my mother outside here kidding him. She said, 'Now, you know very well you're a Mormon.' And he just smiled and said 'Never mind, Froutha.’ That was my mother's name, Froutha. JS: One thing I have been curious about is that many of the Icelanders came for the religion. Why did those that did come and weren't L.D.S, come? SH: I really don't know why they came. MA: It seems like the ones that came here to Spanish Fork was sorta of one family, the Jamesons’, the Brynolfssons’; they were all one big family. JW: How about Jay Bearnson? Was he in the family? MA: I believe that that old grandfather didn't want to come here and I think they got their feelings hurt after they got here. The old Grandfather, you remember him, Sarah, Jim Jameson's father. SH: Oh, yes. 21 MA: You know they lived down there across the road from the bishop in that little house there and he was a wood sawer and I think they came here for the Gospel, had their feelings hurt and the whole family turned against the Church and most of them have stayed away from the Church. And they are a nice family too. JW: Iceland people were really something else. When one's cow would go dry, one of the other Icelanders would carry milk to the family and whenever they would kill an animal they would divide it up and take a share to each family. SH: And many a little bucket of milk I took up on the bench here mother always sent when someone didn't have milk. They send milk until their cow came on. They were awful good to each other. JW: And each one had special skills and they helped one another with those skills. Oh, Bjarni Jonson was the butcher and he killed all the animals for everybody and up here was a brick man, wasn't he or a plasterer or something. . . SH: Jim Jonson was the brick layer or plasterer. JW: I know Gattiny came down and fixed grandmother's house and plastered the outside of it and he watered it off as a brick house just as perfect as anything you ever saw. If I remember right, it was a light colored, cream colored paint or mortar. Then he nut brown lines with the brick and it is real pretty and it seemed like if one of them had a skill and they helped one another. SH: We had a watch maker and cobblers and carpenters and. . . MA: Erik Hansen and Stephenson—he made nearly all my mother and father's furniture— beautiful furniture. Erik Hansen made all the caskets. 22 SH: It's been just recently that he quit. MA: Oh, he died. JW: They were really unique those people, in a way, they took care of the whole, not only they helped everybody else, but they took care of their people. JS: Well, that's important. I think you can see a lot now in Spanish Fork still. I'm really impressed with these people. MA: My mother mad a pair of booties for every baby that was born on the bench. I have had a lot of people, whenever they mention my mother, says 'Oh, we can remember the booties that she brought us.’ JS: Do you still have any of her old things that she made? MA: No, and I wished I had some of her booties. I have got a little pair of doll booties that she made for my daughter but I haven't got a pair of baby booties. I tried to find a pair but, you know of something that she'd given to me. . . JW: She used to make us kids wool socks and wool mittens all the time and she would get the wool and wash it and card it and spin it and knit it and, you'll see those one-thumb wool gray mittens, she would mix the black wool with the white wool and make these gray ones. They say that the socks was warmer if they were gray. JS: She sure was an industrious woman. MA: Oh, they were industrious. JS: Can you remember any other little instances? 23 MA: I can remember this Iceland store that was just across the street from where we lived and it was used at one time as a dance hall and if there was a wedding, it was held there and then they converted it to a grocery store. I can remember as a little child Lockder Bearnson was the clerk there and every once in a while he would get a sack of candy, wrapped candy, and put it out in the yard and say, 'I got to feed all my little chickens.' JS: What was the name of the store, do you remember? MA: Iceland Mercantile, and then they moved from there down to Beckstrom and had Iceland Mercantile down there. They thought that was a better location for it. That was on Center Street. You know where Bishop Beckstrom lives. Well, that is where it was, right where their home is. Then Bishop Beckstrom bought it from the Iceland Association and had a store of his own for a number of years there. JW: When I was a kid, I used to take eggs to the store all the time and one time I took two eggs down to that little store on Center Street on my way to school. At night I came back, the clerk came out and got a hold of me and said, 'Now, don't you bring me any more pellet eggs.’ JS: Okay, let's hear about the fortune telling. MA: My mother was a fortune teller when they had coffee and they would have been quilting at our home and, of course, they had their cup of coffee when they got through and the men were away from home shearing sheep and they were sort of expecting them to come home and my mother was telling a fortune in one of the ladies cups and she said 'We'll, I can see your husband here, he's come and he's dragging somebody behind 24 him,' And before they left that day, they looked out of the east window here and there was Gil Bearnson coming down dragging Easlegger Olsson. He had had too many drinks and he was just dragging him down the sort of the hill from here. So, of course, my mother was from then, the professional fortune teller. JW: Talking about these fortunes, I'll tell you how they did it. They would take their coffee cup when it was just about empty or practically empty and turn it upside down and shake it in their hand in a circular motion and then when they got it shook up right good, they would set it on the edge of the saucer and Aunt Mary was just telling me they would never set it straight up because if they did, the devil would get it so they would set it on an angle and then when it dried, they would look in this cup and they could see all kind of pretty pictures and one of the things I remember that they would always say was that there was likurstoppur in there. A likurstoppur I think is something about good luck, isn't it? Sometimes they would say, 'Oh, something awful is going to happen to you.’ I don't know whether any of that stuff ever came true. Well, I do in that one instance that Aunt Mary told us about. The sociability there was just something else. SH: There was a time that dad told Erik Jameson’s fortune and he told him that he was going to be chased by an animal and Erik left here and they went home and he went out to milk his cow and it was a tame, pet cow and he got into the barn and the cow chased him and he jumped the fence. From then on, dad was a good fortune teller. So they found a few things out of pictures. JS: That's amazing where they get the ideas of telling it from coffee grounds in cups. 25 JW: You ought to see the cups, they were beautiful, I mean the designs that could be created from shaking the cup. You could see clouds and birds and beautiful things in there. MA: A bird was good news that you were going to get and money in the top, of course, cup was those circles. There would actually be letters in there. There would be a group of people that was going to be together. You could see these people in the cup. You might see a dog's head and that was a good friend that you were going to meet. JW: You sort of have to use your imagination, like looking at the clouds; you can pick out different things in the clouds. You can actually see them and they are actually there and they all have a definite meaning. SH: In a way of having a good time in those days. It was nice for them to be able to get together like that. They couldn't speak the language and they would all get together and enjoy themselves that way. But it wasn't long before they got so they could speak, a lot of them. JS: I think when you have to be in the situation, you do. 26 INDEX I SUMMARY AND ANALYSIS OF PROJECT * I INTERVIEW I: J. VICTOR LIEFSON * I INTERVIEW II: MRS. ELIZABETH HALES V INTERVIEW Ills MRS. MARY ANDRUS AND MRS. SARAH HANSEN V INTERVIEW IV: MRS. ELEANOR JARVIS I INTERVIEW Vi PRES. BYRON GESLISON I PICTURES: MONUMENT, INTERVIEWEES, GRAVE MARKINGS, HOMES. I BIBLIOGRAPHY AN ORAL HISTORY OF THE ICELANDIC HISTORY OF SPANISH FORK Submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements of the Weber State College Oral History Program by Joyce B. Slye on November 1, 1972 AN ORAL HISTORY OF THE ICELANDIC PEOPLE OFSPANISH FORK II. Project description "In I85I two Icelandic Mormons from Copenhagen came as missionaries to the Westmann Islands, southwestern Iceland. They succeeded in converting a few people. One of these became the first Icelandic immigrant to America. In I855 Thordur Thidriksson started out by way of Denmark and England for the Mormon settlements in Utah. . . The voyage across the Atlantic took seven weeks. Fifty people died but Thidriksson reached New York on March 7, 1856, and made his way thence overland. Icelandic colonists followed him and a small settlement was founded at Spanish Fork Utah." This small colony, which has the unique reputation for being the first permanent Icelandic settlement in the Americas, became by accident the topic of my oral history project. Accidentally, because was only through a chance conversation that I was ever aware of the local history concerned with this nationality and as I later found out my initial impressions gather from this brief conversation were incorrect. Rather than being a story of feudal struggles it was a very human history of determined folk to adapt to the hardships of a new way of life and discrimination by those who failed to understand. 1 The above quote is typical of the recorded history that I found of this colony. This was one of three direct references made of the Spanish Fork colony. Of the other two one was a collection of brief biographies of early settlers by Kate Carter, and the other, a history of: Spanish Fork only mentioned the fact that a few Icelanders had settled here. This particular colony has been generally ignored by historians in preference to the expeditions into Brazil and Canada and other areas of the United States such as Minnesota and Nebraska. The words "first permanent have taken second chair to other more adventurous movements. This is understandable because the Canadian account records a struggle of greater consequence to its people. Physical endurance was apparently tried in extremes under adverse conditions of weather, soil infertility, political reversals of government, and at one time becoming a pawn for colonial efforts of both the Canadian and United States government. Although the Canadian government contributed material benefits to attract colonists, many or most settlements were eventually left uninhabited as were many in the U.S. as settlers left in search of more hospitable areas. It is of significance to note that although many settlements were only temporary it was not due to the weakness of the settlers. Miss Margaret McWilliams as well as other authors have made the following observation about their steadfastness. "The difficulties which this settlement encountered would have defeated a less sturdy people. . . Since I had to abandon my hopes for the more romantic history project other avenues had to be explored and there were many. The brief sketch of history above suggests 8 number of questions to be examined relative to my particular project, (footnote l) one concerned what national or personal conditions lead to immigration? 2 How was the move made possible? What information would history contribute concerning their political and social heritage? What have been the consequences and advantages of geographical isolation and what effect if any did that have upon their ability to adapt to e new environment? What have been the results of political influence from Norway and especially Denmark? Why did Spanish Fork become the destination? Once the destination had been achieved how did assimilation take place? What were the physical conditions of their life? By what means did they make a living and gain a trade? What relationship existed between the Danes and the Icelanders here due to the political bondage at home? What were the religious influences? This is a list of basic questions that were initially suggested, as the project progressed, others became apparent. Such as, why have the Icelanders maintained a sort of duel patriotism while other nationalities have lost this identity? Icelanders continue to celebrate the founding of this settlement called Iceland Day, one of major significance was held in the 1950’s. They are also avid genealogists and I was curious as to their methods due to the naming process and the eventual change resulting from emigration although close ties with the mother country have been maintained. Of equal importance was information concerning customs and traditions Icelanders brought with them and continued to practice. They were and are an especially educated and literate people which trait seemed to contribute directly to their acceptance into the community. This was a particularly easy area to probe. Icelanders were and are proud of their customs and achievements. Their success in the community readily bears out the truth of this observation. The pursuit of excellence can be attested to in education carpentry and etc. 3 Other questions pertained to personal and recall experiences as the occasion suggested. These came easier for some informants that for others but were always valuable. Without exception all informants were sensitive about misquoting, offending or leaving out someone involved with this history and were careful about what was said and how. So often I was instructed to turn off the tape recorder and listen to an experience they wanted me to hear but refused to tape because "someone might read this." I got the impression that the states and relationships acquired in Spanish Fork over the years came not without difficulty and sacrifice and they (especially the older generation) were not about to jeopardize it. Although, I feel too that I been the first to hear their story, but something about the tape and the word history posed a threat. In concluding this subject introduction may I use a quote that expresses the general opinion that has been expressed concerning this people. It includes some general exaggerations but I was impressed with the amount of truth there is about the motherland and those Icelanders I have become acquainted with. "The Icelanders are ... by all accounts, the most devout, innocent, pure-hearted people in the world. Crime, theft, debauchery, : cruelty, are unknown among them; they have neither prison, gallows, soldiers nor police; and in the manner of the liv2es they lead . . . there is something of a patriarchal simplicity. “(Lord Dufferin, 1856 governor general of Canada) II. Project analysis The need for personal preparation for the project became more apparent as the work progressed. Initially I felt prepared with essentially tittle research information. As completion approach I found myself wishing my efforts were only just beginning. At first 4 research was difficult and rather unproductive but as I proceeded with each stage of work, new sources became available, especially human resources. Although this is bound to be true of all such projects future efforts would have more time spent in preparation not underestimating the value of any source until it has been investigated. I am aware that too much knowledge can also be harmful especially if improperly used, however informants expect some degree of literacy. Properly used knowledge lend an air of importance to the project and to the person being called upon for help. My first attempts lead to lengthy explanations sometimes unnecessary and irritation to the informant. Perhaps experience is another key factor. I found that with every informant there were certain aspects of Icelandic history I was expected to know and which they felt unnecessary to repeat but that were in my opinion essential to the dialogue. These items usually concerned local events or people that permanent citizens are generally aware of but "that newcomers like myself would not be familiar with. When pinned down to fact, my informants would supply information called for. More often than not things were alluded to either because the time and conversation made it inconvenient or because I was unable to capitalize on the moment. One such instance concerned a discussion of two Mormon missionaries in Iceland and their "objectionable conduct." Bro Liefson was hesitant to discuss the matter but a historian of more experience than myself may have achieved better success. This is true of the other topics in that discussion} a book called Paradise Regained is a good example. To him the book was a fraud written to deceive the reading public. He had little respect for the author due to "inconsistencies and untruths" written and stated about people here and in Iceland. He 5 refused to discuss any of this on tape for fear of injury to local feelings and he did not want the local public aware of the book and its contents. I went immediately to the B»Y«U. and found a copy in the special collections section. It was a highly romanticized novel but I was not familiar enough with isolated historical events to pass judgment on its authenticity. It did pass on some rather colorful interpretations that would have been interesting to explore further. Bro. Geslison was familiar with the book end agreed that much of it was exaggerated but was unable to state specific instances. Others were generally unfamiliar with the book. Another weakness is very apparent in my project; the nature of the questions posed. Questions concerning early history and facts about Iceland raised few problems but those concerning local and personal history were more difficult. Since there was little information about the local history many of my questions were based on assumption or hearsay or picked up during interviews. I often had to rely on conversational clues for the next discussion topic. And since these questions could not be tested for reliance they often were poorly stated or/and misunderstood. I found this all too true when interviewing Mrs. Hales and Mr. Liefson. Mrs. Hales was especially patient but all too often we found ourselves misunderstanding the others statements which lead to repeating. Mr. Liefsons interview started so well that I found myself taking the success for granted. Rather than controlling the direction of the dialogue myself I allowed it to wonder. So, it would appear on the tape that except for my few mumbled attempts to question, he was conduction an interview of himself. Because of this many interesting items were left unexplored End other less important ones were discussed in depth. 6 III. Analysis of individual tapes Bro. Liefson is to me the typical Icelander as I have come to know them. He is a widower with many self-imposed responsibilities. Before retirement he was a building contractor in good standing as were his father and grandfather. Since retirement he has served on the city council and a variety of city committees. At present he has resigned many of these responsibilities and has concentrated on genealogy and his own Icelandic library, which is impressive. He and others of his kin have made five trips back to Iceland, one which he returned from just recently with much enthusiasm. I think it would be safe to say he is exceptionally involved with anything that pertains to Iceland. He speaks and reads the language fluently and as is apparent in the tape he is extremely knowledgeable on the subject and loves to talk about it. We spent several hours during our first meeting looking at his slides, cards, books, and keepsakes which was an excellent introduction to our taped interview. Previous to our taping appointment he simply glowed with excitement about the things he knew of end could tell me about Iceland. Then as we started into the tape he became almost too formal and too concerned about a precise format. He was confident about his material and proceeded without notes during the entire interview. At times he was almost too confident and it sounds as if he were doing the whole thing himself. This was especially true of the more historical parts and those concerning present day Iceland which seemed to be his discussion favorite. I appreciated the information contributed but am disappointed in some excessive deviations on general items such as the water systems of the country. Lack of experience and confidence on my part is probably to blame for this. Either my initial explanations of the project were not clear 7 enough or/and my questions not directive. In reviewing the tape I felt many of the questions were weak and indicted a dependency on this knowledge rather than a definite goal with the means set down. The introduction produced information valuable for background as did those concerning the early Mormon settlement, but where my knowledge of local history weakened, so did our dialogue. Overall the interview was productive and provided a good introduction to the project end gave me several valuable leads for future reference. Sister Hales provided both a personal and an objective view of the local Icelanders. One of the sweetest people in our town, she accepts everyone for what they are and the good that is in them as well as the bad. Not being an Icelander herself she didn't become sidetracked in the glories of Iceland and Icelandic heritage. Rather we were able to concentrate on specific individuals, living conditions, beliefs, experiences and a variety of speculations. As we began the interview her nervousness was somewhat apparent and she tended to repeat certain phrases. V/hen she became more confident she willingly revealed herself and her experiences without hesitation. Several things seemed to trouble her however,, end-at various times during the interview she would repeat regrets such as her failure to sing at a number of Icelanders funerals. In her sweet way she also voiced objections she still harbored concerning the fact that she was shown Jess consideration for her singing engagements then was another lady with fewer obligations. This particular interview was terminated with mixed feelings on my part; I had the impression that she had many more stories or experiences to share if properly 8 stimulated. She was growing tired and we both needed a rest. In the in term between our next visit, her health suffered a setback by a fall she sustained in her front yard. Consequently we did not pursue our dialogue any further. The names of Sarah Hansen and Mary Andrus were suggested tome by Sister Hales and they proved to be enjoyable informants. Both are elderly; Mrs. Andrus is or was a little restless end hard of hearing, and Mrs. Hansen was rather shy and uncertain. Mrs. Hansen later informed me that she had suffered a stroke a few months earlier which explained her insecurity about her memory. Both ladies appeared to have a great deal to say about their past and Mary Andrus spoke quite freely about her girlhood. Sarah Hansen on the other hand was dependent upon her sister for suggestions and aids for her dialogue and lacked the confidence to really give of herself. This particular interview was really a challenge to me at first and after about thirty to forty minutes of dialogue I felt like we had accomplished only moderate success. Jarvis Warner, Mrs. Hansen's son, appeared on the scene to offer considerable assistance. His jovial personality seemed to add some spark to the interview and he contributed variety to the interview as well as some interesting experiences and information. Perhaps one most important contribution this family made to the project was to give meaning to the conditions of the poor living conditions. They were able to describe the demands of providing a means of livelihood and participation by all family members without bitterness or resentfulness. Interestingly enough I got the impression that they felt that struggles with nature were necessary as well as were those with society. They 9 seemed to feel that it was right that they be asked to prove their worth prior to their acceptance into that community. They felt they had succeeded in proving themselves and had darned a certain amount of recognition. This is one instance when I wish I had taken time to become better acquainted with my people before I attempted to conduct an interview. More would have been accomplished. Eleanor Jarvis. I believe it was Hamlet that said . . . "Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow ..." practically intimating the passing of time without accomplishment. Without being too critical, this interview was my most difficult, Eleanor Jarvis is a fine woman, very dedicated to her Icelandic Heritage. She is a sister to Kate Carter and her brother Jack Bearnson is a prominent Icelandic genealogist. Eleanor however is a wonderful little lady with a great deal of knowledge and because obligation of her early years are gone she concentrates on journals and genealogy and other work concerning Iceland. Her information was valuable but it seemed that we had to wade through numerous amounts of materials not to be taped to get to that that could. I'm sure that my own urgency to proceed contributed very little to the confliction. I regret that many items assigned to untaped conversation because of her sensitivity about the potential reading audience. Other problems arose after the recording was made and the transcription returned. She was extremely cautious about the way she sounded. She also felt that much if not all should be redone to sound better. I was able to persuade her to leave the paper and tape as they were and make corrections and additions only where she felt information had not been given correctly or was not complete. I spent many very 10 nervous moments with Mrs. Jervis trying to encourage her and explain to her the reasons for the informal nature of the interview. My success was somewhat questionable. But I did appreciate her concern and willingness to help. E. President Geslison provided my very favorite interview, probable because of his warm and personable manner. Our interview w: s conducted in the Spanish Fork High School Seminary building, in his office, which although rather small and crowded was quite compatible to our needs and put at his fingertips any or all information he needed. At one point during the interview he took the time to show me some of his work on genealogy. He reviewed on the tape how easy genealogy is to trace if you are or can be traced to a line of royalty or kings, which is apparently not uncommon because of the numbers of petty kings in the Scandinavian countries. His particular line connected to Harold the Fair Haired who was a unifying king of Norway and it was fascinating to see the royal names of history. Also, Bro. Geslison was much less sensitive about what he spoke about. He was careful not to use names unnecessarily or speculate on hearsay but I felt he was more concerned with the content of the tape and that it be complete and honest rather than about who was to read it and what they would think. He was, however, very soft spoken and I had difficulty in keeping his volume high enough to record. I also neglected to allow the recorder to warm itself up before proceeding and the introduction and first few sentences were left out. IV. Class Evaluation 11 My impressions are for the cost part favorable. I am grateful for the opportunities provided and for the knowledge and relationships resulting from my project. The orientation week was exciting and extremely motivating. I was personally very stimulated by the concepts of this new type of historical research and its present and future potential. The opportunity for individuality was possibly the most exciting part and I think, Dr. Sadler, that your personal enthusiasm was the greatest contributor along with that of your colleague. Many good ideas have stayed on the ground because of a lack of, or the inability to generate a sincere enthusiasm. Looking back on my initiation to the project I felt unprepared in two ways specifically. First may I say I appreciated the expert discussion of the professors from Weber and Utah State University concerning their work in this field, however these men were professionally and academically involved and I don't feel presented a realistic impression of the project. Previous students of this project, not professionally involved, may have been helpful. I would like to have been warned by one of my own peers about the tedious hours of typing, research disappointments, dissatisfactory interviews, moments of discouragement as well as the successes resulting. I would have liked to question several of them in class and maybe have them demonstrate their opinions using their own tapes and transcripts. The one particular session where we listened, to sample tapes was only partially helpful and would have been more helpful to me to use after or in conjunction with the session mentioned above. Also I would like to have seen a sample project or projects complete to examine the authors purpose and technique. Our handouts were especially helpful, but the written word is much clearer when accompanied by the real thing. 12 I regret not keeping in closer touch. About the end of July I was rather down, lost and frankly unmotivated. One mid-project regrouping of the troops to hash out problems and discouragements would really have helped. Sometimes sharing is good medication. The telephone conversations were extremely helpful and motivation was renewed at the conclusion. However! And speaking for myself one or two required group conferences at mid-points in the project would have been wonderful or did my failure to attend one result, from my own ignorance of their existence. In closing may I say that this has honestly been perhaps the most worthwhile projects for history that I've participated in. This would have been a much more realistic application of practical history for the senior history seminar then the written one required at B.Y.U. 13 14 *Pictures not OCR’d 15 16 17