Oral History Program Tom Kinomoto Interviewed by Thomas Krueger 02 March 1971 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Tom Kinomoto Interviewed by Thomas Krueger 02 March 1971 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in University Archives. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Kinomoto, Tom, an oral history by Thomas Krueger, 02 March 1971, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Tom T. Kinomoto. The interview was conducted on March 2, 1971, by Thomas H. Krueger. Mr. Kinomoto discusses his experiences during World War II as a Japanese American. THK: This is an interview with Tom T. Kinomoto, the president of the Intermountain AAU Association Asian-Americans United? and the vice chairman of the AAU Judo Committee, March 2, 1971. Mr. Kinomoto, when and where were you born? TTK: I was born January 17, 1915, in Seattle, Washington. THK: What did your parents do for a living? TTK: Ah... Dad had a restaurant, and… restaurant, hotel...Mom ran the hotel and Dad the restaurant. THK: What was it like for you as a youngster to grow up, you know, as a second-generation Japanese? TTK: Well, I...what was it like? I don’t know, it’s a hard question to answer. I think the second generation, like we say in the LSEI first generation to immigrate to the United States style, what they said was... What governed us, you might say. If they said, well, you know. THK: Before the war came, what were you doing? TTK: Let’s see, when the war came... I’d only been married, ah, two years... I was working for these amusement games. I checked them out, collected money from them. And then I 1 went downhill to Dad’s restaurant in the early evenings. Yeah, that’s about what I did, until evacuation. THK: I see. When they first bombed Pearl Harbor, you know, what was your first reaction? TTK: Let’s see, when Pearl Harbor got bombed...we were on, what was that called now? Longmier – anyway, we were going, we were skiing. We went skiing up to Mount Rainier, and I think – I believe it was called Longmier – and because of the snow there, we had stopped and were putting chains on, and had a hard time putting chains on because of this fellow’s car. He had either got new tires or something. The chains were short. So we took some time, and meanwhile we heard that Pearl Harbor had got bombed. After we got the chains on, we proceeded up to, I believe it’s called Paradise where the lodge is at Mount Rainier. As we got up there, we started to ask one another, “Pearl Harbor – that’s in Hawaii, isn’t it?” We weren’t sure. Then we decided that it was Hawaii because of the radio broadcast, and even though we heard that the Japs had bombed Pearl Harbor, we thought, “Well, we’ve come 120 miles or so to ski.” You know, we felt sort of funny, but still we skied, and they showed the feeling, you might say, of all sportsmen. There was no nasty remarks made. No one gave us a bad time, you might say. But where we would have skied there for two or, no, usually we skied until about four in the afternoon and headed back. Why, that afternoon, we sort of cut it short around three o’clock and headed home. THK: Did you notice any change at all from the people you knew after the incident? Did they... TTK By that you mean Caucasians, or...? THK: Yes, Caucasians. Did their attitudes change toward you? 2 TTK: Up in the Northwest? There wasn’t any of that there – hostile feeling. Things were the same. We heard that at some beer joints, a guy would go in, and if it were Japaneseowned, they’d give him a bad time, you know. But there were just a very few incidents like that. THK: When did you go to the relocation camp? TTK: Before we went to the relocation camp, we went to an assembly center first. THK: I see. TTK: I believe when we went to the assembly center, which was at Puyallup, Washington, I think that was around early June. I think June, and then from the assembly center, well, after about — let me see – about a year there, a year or nine months there – we were relocated to a relocation center called Minidoka. It was actually at the place called Hunt, Idaho. THK: Was your whole family sent over to the assembly center? TTK: Yes, the whole family. That is, I had, other than myself, my two brothers and my parents. THK: After you were sent to the relocation center, was any of your family broken up? TTK: No, we stayed together. We were in different blocks, you know, but we were together. THK: What was it like at the relocation camp? TTK: Well, when we first went up there, it was like a dust bowl. That is, when we, our family went up there, we were, I believe, the second or the third contingent that arrived there at the relocation center because they were moving in by groups of 500, you know. We 3 were the third group. Then it was – well, like myself, I was busy there because I got in housing and had to take care of people that were coming in. They were registered, and they were assigned barracks, and getting their bedding and things like that. THK: So for most of the time you were in the relocation camp you were busy in this housing project? TTK: Yes because, see, I think our camp there was set up for...something like 50,000. There were 50 blocks in that area. I don’t know how much ground it covered, but the set up was for 50,000 people. THK: Did you feel that was unfair at first when you went there? TTK: Yes, that feeling of unfairness was more at the beginning, you know, right after Pearl Harbor. Then when this General DeWitt order came out that all the ones of Japanese ancestry were to be evacuated, you know, we thought, “Ah, surely he doesn’t mean Japanese if, you know, you are American citizens, you might say. Americans of Japanese descent.” And we weren’t quite sure. Then when the order became more positive that all Japanese were going, the feeling was sort of bad, you know. Then when we went to the relocation at the assembly center first, you know, we were sort of lost and bewildered. But by the time that the Northwest people had got into the relocation camp, I believe that feeling – well, they were all busy. So if there were any feelings like that, they were all busy, you might say, readjusting to their life and wondering how long they’d have to be there; then we made the best of whatever we had there. I think it was a good idea they had, other than your work, the good recreational programs that kept 4 everybody busy. We didn’t have any trouble in our camp, no radicals or anything like that. THK: Do you have any resentment today about going to camp? TTK: No, I think it was a good experience. No bad feelings. It was sort of an education and... Now there’s no bad feelings. I think not only has it – while we were in there busy – then I think the original 100th and the boys in the 442nd in the military , you know, more than redeemed the Americans of Japanese ancestry. The bad feeling that I did have, I think, was more in the beginning prior to the time that we were actually evacuated. THK: From the relocation in Idaho, how did you come down to Ogden? What made you come here? TTK: Well, you know, being that I was born and raised in the restaurant business, I thought, “No more restaurant for me.” Prior to the time that we had got evacuated, I was in these amusement games, pinballs, or whatever you want. I checked out the machines and was, you might say, a collection man. So I thought, “No more restaurant for me,” so I was waiting for a construction job. Meanwhile my dad and mother had come out this way. Dad had come out first, and Mother came later. Naturally they got into, with a Turkish fellow, into the restaurant business. Then Mom came out. Then Mom got a stroke, and that’s when I came out here in June of 1943 and have been here ever since. THK: So your parents started a restaurant business, and you just took over? You worked for them? TTK: In 1943 after I came out, Dad had taken over this place. He worked for this fellow for a while, then he had brought a crew of fellows from the camp. At that time, in order to 5 leave the camp, you came out, and they’d call you to come out and work first. It was called a short-term leave, and you had an ID and all that saying that you’re on a shortterm, permitted to be in this area to work. Dad had brought out a couple of cooks. So after I came out, in June, I went back out after my wife and the youngsters in August. We ran this place right after I came out, I think. Prior to that, Dad had been there, so he was living there for about a year. Let’s see, the end of 1943 – we got a place of our own, or Dad got a place, you know, of our own. From there, why in the year 1944, we had trouble again, that’s right. I forgot about that. I applied for a business license and because we were of Japanese ancestry, our license was denied. The city themselves said, for public safety. In other words they said that if we were to open, there might be some person or persons who still have resentment against the Japanese even though we were Americans. THK: Mr. Kinomoto, what did your family do when their license was denied? TTK: Well, we held off for, oh I think – we were hoping that we could get a license, so we held off for about three months. Finally it looked as though we were just getting a runaround. We all decided to go to work. Besides, finances were getting low. So Dad went to work as a dishwasher. I went to – my brother and I went to work at a truck line as warehousemen. My sister-in-law went to work as a waitress. My wife, you might say, she was a housekeeper because at the time she was pregnant with our third child. THK: Did you ever take the case to court? TTK: Yes, we had an attorney at the time. The War Relocation Authority, they were called WRA, they were saying... you know, they were saying the reason of public safety and all 6 that... Meanwhile they had gone to, you might say, one influential Japanese party in town here, and he evidently must have told him it wasn’t a wise thing to do. Then my attorney, he said, “This way, we’re not getting anywhere, so, Tom, we’ve got to sue the city.” So he started drawing briefs up to make suit against the city. The old Japanese style, you know, Dad says, “You better tell Mr. Mukai what you’re going to do.” Mr. Mukai says, “Gee, you guys are just ...” in words that I suppose amount to be like outcasts, “you’re evacuees out of a camp, and all that, and you’re just total strangers in this town. If you win this case,” he says, “I don’t think there would be too many people patting you on the back, but if you were to lose, why, you’d be ostracized. So,” he says, “I wouldn’t start a suit.” Naturally, like I said before, it got to a point where we had to go to work because, you know, our finances. With that more or less like a threat, we backed down. Then, of course, I think it was a year later, we filed suit in the federal court in conjunction with two other parties. Three of us sued the City of Ogden in the federal court here in Ogden. Judge Tillman Johnson, I think it was. In fact that was May 1945, I think. He passed a decision that any American shouldn’t be discriminated against because of his ancestry. THK: Whatever happened to your dad’s restaurant and hotel in Seattle? TTK: Let’s see. The hotel had been condemned, and anyway we were just in the restaurant business. The restaurant itself, Dad says, you know in the Japanese style, “Anybody should be able to make money in this restaurant.” So we would say he was gullible, you know. We told him, we said, “No, you’ve got to have things sewn up, you know, signed up in a contract.” He said no. So he had an old friend, a Caucasian friend that had no experience in the restaurant business. He told him, “You run it.” While we were in 7 relocation camp – oh, no, the assembly center – he couldn’t manage it and gave up. Then he got another party in, and they in turn couldn’t make a go of it. Meanwhile we were relocated to Idaho, and I lost track of what happened after that. But everything that Dad had there, why he lost. THK: When you did come to Ogden, was there any discrimination against you or your family? TTK: Discrimination wasn’t too bad then, but you could tell that there was open hostility. You could look at a person, like if you were working, or walking on a sidewalk, and say that if you were walking on the outside, and some Caucasians were coming down and supposedly walking on this side, they would purposely come, you know, and force you off the sidewalk, and things like that. Another thing that was sort of discouraging in the years later. I questioned the guys at the Japanese American Citizens League in this Ogden area who took a stand. And of course the president said he didn’t know they were having a meeting in Salt Lake, but they took a stand here in Ogden that the town of Ogden, or the community of Ogden, didn’t care to have any evacuees from any camp to come working in here, you know, to relocate. That is they didn’t mind them maybe coming out on the short-term work contract, but to relocate to start your own business, or to start working. Even Japanese-ancestry guys gave us a rough going. I think to this day – well, some of it – no a lot of it’s gone – but there’s some of it still with the local natives, you might say. What’s the word, they didn’t mix too good with the evacuees. You know, that’s just a very little percentage, but... THK: When you first came to Ogden, were there any Judo Clubs that were already established? 8 TTK: I had heard that years ago, I suppose, prior to the war and all that, they had... I don’t think they had a Judo Club, but they had a Kendo Club. I understand there was actually no Judo Club. I think out in the – I don’t know whether it was Weber County or – but one of the towns...There was no Judo activity in the town itself, but I think out in Syracuse, or it could have been out in Slaterville, they had a small Judo Club. THK: When did you start the Judo organization in Ogden? TTK: Well, a group of us started it about, let me see, around 1957 or 1956, I think. We started a Judo Club here. THK: Since you came in 1943, why did you wait so long to start a Judo Club? TTK: Oh, I think the main reason, just like the reason they denied us a license – we thought that even though the feeling towards the Japanese was more or less... antagonism that they had toward the Japanese was practically nil around here. We thought that if we started things like Judo, why it might bring back that feeling. I think that was the main reason why were a little bit reluctant in starting a club that was, well, you might say, open to the public. So, as a matter of fact, the first time we had it, we had it below the Star Noodle here. The membership was strictly all Japanese, and the fellow that was the president of it said that he believed that – that was his wish that he was the president – he wanted it only open to Japanese, you know. Then we instructors, about six months later, we said, “Gee, in this country, this democratic country of ours, we can’t be the ones to discriminate if anyone wants to join.” I said, “Being a sport, as it is, why we shouldn’t discriminate.” Of course, if the person’s moral character was such that, for that person to be learning Judo is not good toward the benefit of Judo, why then we 9 didn’t accept him. So finally, I think after a year or six months, about a year, we opened up membership to all races. 10