Oral History Program Carolyn Barr Wold Interviewed by Melissa Johnson 29 October 2010 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Carolyn Barr Wold Interviewed by Melissa Johnson 29 October 2010 Copyright © 2010 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in Special Collections. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The St. Benedict’s School of Nursing was founded in 1947 by the Sisters of Mount Benedict. The school operated from April 1947 to 1968. Over the forty-one year period, the school had 605 students and 357 graduates. In 1966, the program became the basis for Weber State College’s Practical Nursing Program. This oral history project was created to capture the memories of the graduates and to add to the history of nursing education in Ogden. The interviews focus on their training, religion, and experiences working with doctors, nurses, nuns, and patients at St. Benedict’s Hospital. This project received funding from the Utah Humanities Council and the Utah Division of State History. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management Special Collections All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Carolyn Barr Wold, an oral history by Melissa Johnson, 29 October 2010, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Carolyn Barr Wold Graduation Photo Class of 1954 Carolyn Barr Wold October 29, 2010 1 Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Carolyn Barr Wold, conducted by Melissa Johnson and Marci Farr, on October 29, 2010. In this interview, Carolyn discusses her recollections and experiences with the St. Benedict’s School of Nursing. MJ: This is Melissa Johnson, and we are in the home of Carolyn Wold, who was a graduate of St. Benedict’s School of Nursing in 1954. We’re here in her home in South Ogden, and it is October 29, 2010. Just to start off, tell us a little bit about where you grew up and where you went to school. CW: I was born at the Dee Hospital, and I grew up in Ogden, at 2521 Gramercy Avenue. I attended St. Joseph’s School on Lincoln from the first grade to the tenth grade; Ogden High School as a junior, and a senior at Weber. I graduated from Weber June 1951. I attended St. Benedict’s School of Nursing from September of 1951 to September of 1954. MJ: So were there any classes in high school that you took that prepared you for nursing? CW: There were. I did not take typing or secretarial classes. Everything I took was geared toward math and chemistry, and anything that had to do with the sciences. MJ: So had you already decided that you wanted to be a nurse? CW: Yes, I did. MJ: How did you decide that? 2 CW: Well, when I was ten, I guess, I was riding horses with Janet Glassman, and I got off the horse to go tell my mother to bring us a candy bar; she was headed to the grocery store. I looked toward 25th Street, and not toward the street that I was crossing, and got hit by a car. So I flew up in the air – this little lady was going very slowly – and I broke my collarbone. I landed on my knees, and I never hit my head, but I was kind of stunned. when I was twelve, I started having trouble with a leg. It was Osgood Schlatter from the accident, and I was in a cast from my thigh to my ankle all summer. So what does one do? Well, one reads books, and I read all of Cherry Ames - I had read all of Nancy Drew prior to that. I decided that’s what I was going to be, a nurse. MJ: Why did you decide to go to St. Benedict’s? CW: Well, because I am Catholic and it was just a foregone conclusion that that’s where I was going to go. Obviously I would have loved to have gone out of state, but we didn’t have the funds. It was $460 for the three years at St. Benedict’s, and that was room and board, and education, everything. Of course, in those days, the hospital was staffed with students, so there were not as many nurses; it wasn’t as costly because they didn’t have staff to pay. Anyway, that’s why I went to St. Benedict’s, because it was affordable, and I was going to be living there. MJ: Did it include your textbooks as well? CW: Everything. $460 for the three years, and that was everything. 3 MJ: When you first got to St. Benedict’s and into nursing school, what were some of your impressions of the program and the school? CW: Well, of course it was very strict. We had to be in the library studying, be in our pajamas by 8:30, and in bed by ten. We had classes until we received our cap, which I thought was three months; I’m not sure I remember that correctly. But anyway, we were taught how to go and do AM cares, and then we came back and did class; then we went and did PM cares, then came back and did our studying. We had classes every day. We could not leave the campus – we were locked in, actually – we could not leave the campus until we had been capped. Then we could get a pass to go home overnight, but that was it. I mean, it was very strict and very regimented. They checked on us constantly to make sure that we were in bed, and see what we were doing. MJ: What was the difference between the AM and the PM cares? CW: Well, in AM you gave fresh water, and you gave them a washcloth to wash their face, and then you set up their tray for breakfast. That was AM care. Then you collected the trays, and I believe we gave them oral hygiene. Then we went to class and came back at four o’clock and we gave fresh water and back rubs and set up their dinner tray. Then we’d collect their tray and that was the end of the day. Then we had to go home and have dinner – well, we had dinner at the hospital, then we had to go home and study, because we had to be in pajamas and down in the library studying again. So that was the routine. On weekends you did study more, to write your papers, or prepare for a test on Monday. But you still did your AM care and PM care on Saturday and 4 Sunday. After you got capped, then you were taught how to do bed baths, so then you did the bed bath before you went to class. So you were always doing something. MJ: Tell us a little about your classes. CW: Well, we had nursing arts. We started out with forty students, and at capping we were down to twenty, and we only graduated thirteen. So it was very tough. You couldn’t be married, so that was one of the other things that kind of stymied people to not stay. It was tough, and they weren’t about to do that. Sister Estelle taught chemistry. She was an excellent teacher. She was very strict, and very hard, but you learned. We did have a great nursing arts teacher. There was actual hands on, patient learning. You learned in a lab, but you went and did it right away. You did it over and over again, and you were graded. I can honestly say that my grades were average, but my actual application was always A. I didn’t do as well on the written tests, because I’m not a great test-taker, but my applications were always high, so there you go. MJ: Do you remember any of the other instructors that you had? CW: Yes, specifically Mary Kay Erdwig. She was a graduate of Johns Hopkins, Master’s degree nurse, who taught us operating room nursing. There just wasn’t a program, as far as I know, in any other school of nursing. She was very strict, and very, very good. I really enjoyed that particular service. I enjoyed the operating room and orthopedics. MJ: So, did the doctors ever come and teach you? 5 CW: Oh, absolutely. They did, indeed. Dr. Swindler taught us orthopedics and Dr. Lund taught us urology. There were other physicians I can’t remember. Those two stand out, because they were there repetitiously. As I said, working in the OR, we had Mary Kay Erdwig, and then the doctors taught us at the same time. I mean, we’d follow through with what she’d taught us. So those were the things I remember the most. MJ: Good. So who was your roommate? CW: Her name was Norma Hill, and she was from Milad, Idaho - I think Downey and Milad. She was great. We used to go up and visit. I’d go stay with her parents up there, and chum around up there, and then she would come and stay with me at home. But most of the time we were just at the nurses’ home. MJ: Not a whole lot of extra free time. CW: No. MJ: So when you did have that little bit of free time, and you weren’t up visiting her, what did you guys do? CW: Got in trouble. You don’t want to know. We chummed around with two fellows a little bit. They would be throwing rocks at our windows on the second floor. That’s when I got in trouble. They decided that we needed to go with them but I was not supposed to be leaving the campus. Now, it didn’t matter that my roommate left the campus, because she wasn’t Catholic, but I was supposed to be reading about Saint Helen. Well, the fellows called and said they wanted to go get a milkshake in their new convertible. I thought, “Okay, well, if I’m back by ten, nobody will know I’m gone.” 6 Well, we didn’t get back by ten, so we’re sneaking in the doctor’s entrance, and Sister Mary Margaret was the hospital administrator. If you were to come in at ten o’clock, you were to sign in at the hospital switchboard with Sylvia and show your pass. Then you would go through the hospital and down under through the tunnel and back into the nursing home, because everything at the nursing home was locked up. You couldn’t get in. Well, it was past ten o’clock, and I didn’t have a pass. So we were sneaking in, and we knew we could get past Sylvia at the switch board by the hospital front doors because she wasn’t watching the doctor’s entrance. But guess who’s coming down the hall when we get past? Sister Mary Margaret. Oh, dear. She chased us down the stairs and into Dr. O’Gorman’s waiting room. She caught us and said a few things. This was now 12:30 a.m - maybe one o’clock. We were supposed to appear in her office the next morning at seven, and I was to go to Mass at six o’clock. Well, we didn’t make either one. So here comes Sister Berno, who was over the school of nursing, and we ended up in Sister Berno’s office, not Sister Mary Margaret’s. Sister Estelle wanted to kick us out of school. It was October 1952, so we were quite a ways along. I graduated in 1954. So my father came and talked to Sister Berno, and Sister Berno said, “All right, we will campus the two girls. You will not go home for Thanksgiving, and you must write these three essays.” One was on democracy in the school of nursing, the art of conversation, and I don’t remember what the third one was. We had to go to the library and write them. That was tough. 7 So I couldn’t go home for Thanksgiving, and my mother was absolutely furious, because her father - my grandfather - died in December, right after Christmas. My mother was furious. My dad says, “Listen, at least she’s still in school. That was my bad time. I was the only child delinquent that ever got campused. I had to put in an extra month of training at the end of my senior year. Everybody else got through in August, I got through in September of ’54. I was just a little stinker. MJ: Tell us about some of your other classmates. CW: Well, as I said, we had a small class the last year, and we had a pediatric rotation up in Denver. Three of us went at a time. The two that went with me to Children’s Hospital were Jean Garside and Marilyn Davis. We spent three months there learning pediatrics. We did not go for a rotation to a psych hospital. Students before us did, and I believe students after us, but we did our rotation right there at St. Benedict’s. When I was a senior, I was in charge of the psych ward at night with a male attendant who knew how to do IVs. I was administering doses of insulin to induce shock therapy. I took their vitals and then restrained their hands and their feet to their bed to prevent injury. To terminate the therapy glucose was administered per nasogastric tube. I would pray, “Gracious Lord, please allow them to respond.” Not all of them did, so you’d have a syringe of 50 CCs of glucose ready to give though an IV. That was not my favorite rotation either, but my very worst was OB. MJ: You didn’t like OB? 8 CW: I hated OB. First of all, there was a very strict nurse in charge – Miss Rubleman. She was elderly, and she didn’t like me. We had an extra room upstairs that we had to sleep in so that when somebody came in to the hospital in labor, you would be available to set up for the delivery. But she never taught me how to check patients for how far along they were in labor prior to delivery. No, all I got to do was set up for delivery and clean up the mess. Then they put me in the nursery - that was another thing. I was alone at night with the regular nursery and also these little teeny-tiny preemies. I had two little preemies and to feed them I had to put a little tube down in their stomach. You put a little tube down, and then you stick the other end in a little medicine glass, and if there are bubbles, you’re in their lung and not in their stomach. I used to pray that I would not kill one of those babies while I was giving them formula, because gastric, they can bubble too. Oh, my gosh, I’d take that tube and put it down, pull it out, put it down, then I’d take it back out – it was awful. I couldn’t wait to get out of that service. Wasn’t my idea of fun at all. Even to this day I don’t like babies. I didn’t like my own. My husband is great with babies, but he doesn’t like teenagers. I’ll take the teenagers any time. MJ: See, so it all worked out. CW: It all worked out well. He’s really good with babies. Not me. MJ: How long were you on each rotation? CW: Usually about three months. If they found that you were acclimated to one better than the other, they would give you more time there. When I did my OR rotation, I picked up on that really quickly so when Dr. Howe had a private scrub that 9 wanted to go abroad to ski, he went to Sister Mary Margaret, the hospital administrator, and asked if I could skip classes and come and scrub for him the two weeks she was gone. She said that was fine, so I did. Another thing with that delivery room was that she kept me up cleaning floors all the time. So in class I would fall sound asleep. I’d wake up and there’s Dr. Lund standing right there. “Miss Barr, are we keeping you awake?” It was awful because I hadn’t been asleep all night. They lecture, and the voice just drones on and on. That was one of the things. One other thing about Miss Rubleman – One day I had had enough. I was ready to walk out. I helped Dr. Sterling do a delivery and after he says, “Boy, she’s tough on you. She doesn’t treat anybody else like that.” I said, “Well, she and I just don’t like each other, I guess.” So he took me back in the little room where they kept the ice. We used to have glass pitchers and glasses that we had to sterilize, so they were in this special room to be kept clean. So Dr. Sterling gave me this pep talk that it wasn’t worth putting two and a half years down the drain for her. But I was ready to walk out the next morning. I thought, “You can’t get me out of here quick enough.” But he talked me into staying, which I was grateful for. He was my grandmother’s doctor at the time. He was a general practitioner. My grandmother had leukemia, and he was taking care of her. He was actually my husband’s doctor, too, so it kind of worked out. I spent a lot of time my senior year on the psych ward. Then I went to the orthopedics floor a lot, which was the polio ward also. I spent a great deal of my time in the polio patient area. If I were free in the summer and didn’t have 10 classes, I would special some of those patients, because they needed extra care, especially the little ones. We had what became the orthopedic men’s ward at one time, was filled with two iron lungs and two children that had just come out of iron lungs with trachs. So I would special them three to eleven. I worked my regular shift, and then I would special them three to eleven for about three weeks. MJ: So were you a private care nurse for them? CW: Yes, and I would be paid. I was given a stipend for taking care of them, because those kids needed extra help that the floor couldn’t give. See, the Dee Hospital didn’t do polio patients, we did them all. They sent them all to us. I put several in iron lungs. One woman patient I remember because of the fact that she was a young mother. Her youngest was nine months old, and she had four or five children, and she was completely paralyzed from the neck down. She was in 204, one of the isolation rooms. The isolation rooms – rooms 204 through 208 – had big windows so that you could observe the patients and really see them. I was walking past, doing the meds and everybody had gone to lunch. Sister Josette was over that division, and I was still a student. Everybody had gone to lunch, and all of a sudden I looked at her; her bed was rolled up, and she just had this horrible look on her face. I thought, “She cannot breathe.” The iron lung was outside of her room, so I’m pushing it in, and I’m yelling to second medical, “Help, help, help!” And who comes off that elevator – God sent him – it was her husband. He was a great big man, and I just yelled at him, “I need your help!” He helped me put her in the lung, and plug it in, and she could breathe, because it breathed for her. So she had both bulbar and spinal polio. He took 11 such good care of her. It’s amazing. Her whole family did. She just passed away two years ago, I guess it was. He died a year before she did, but she had those kids to help take care of her. But she couldn’t move anything. MJ: Such a scary time. CW: It was just awful. You know, you would have three in a family walk in - I remember this one family from Brigham. We saved the two children, the mother never did get it, and the father died. It was a terrible disease. Now, people are coming back with the relapses. They had it thirty or forty years ago, and here they are now, relapsing. MJ: My friend, her grandmother had polio, and had relapses later in her life. She had some heart problems, but the complications of the polio added to it and contributed to her death later on. CW: Yes. It was absolutely amazing that we learned these things as we went on. When I graduated, that’s where I ended up: on orthopedic and polio ward, as head nurse under Sister Josette. So that’s what I did. MJ: For how long? CW: Let’s see. I got through in September, got married in November. November the 6th – this is my 56th wedding anniversary coming up. I got pregnant in April, and had a girl in January of ’56. So I worked up until ten days before she was born, because I wasn’t actually doing patient care. I was doing head the nurse job. When she was born, I stayed home for two months with her. I went back, and was going to work three days a week on that department doing patient care or whatever they wanted me to do. Sister Josette was gone by this time and Sister 12 Marlus was back. I had been a student under Sister Marlus and I loved them both. Sister Josette was just a young, sweet thing, but Sister Marlus was an older nun, and I really liked her a lot. She gave me so much responsibility and taught me how to do so many things. So anyway, I get to work and she says, “You’re not doing patient care today, you’re doing meds.” I said, “Okay, fine, I like that.” We always went to work at seven and at about eleven o’clock, she comes to me and says, “Sister Mary Margaret wants to see you.” I thought, “Oh my hell, I’ve only been here three hours, what have I done now?” So down to her office I go, and she said, “So who’s taking care of your baby?” I said, “My mother-in-law.” “How many days are you working?” “Three.” “Would she take care of your baby for the other two days?” And I said, “Well, I guess.” “Would your husband let you work two more days?” “Well, I guess. I better call, I don’t know.” So I call my mother-in-law, and she had my husband call me. We all agreed that I could work the other two days. I asked sister Mary Margaret, “Why? Are you that short of help?” She said, “No, I need Sister Marlus for the three to eleven supervisor. You’ll be the department head.” So I was the first department head at St. Benedict’s that wasn’t a nun, and I had that position for three years, until I had my second child, and then that was too much. Two kids and that job 13 was just way too much. So I went down to Sister Mary Margaret and I said, “I can’t handle this job with these two babies.” They were twenty-one months apart. She said, “I can see that. We need somebody to run the ENT (Earn, Nose, and Throat) room in the OR.” So there I went. I did that from seven to one, five days a week. But running the ENT room was wonderful. I really enjoyed it. In the other position, as department head over orthopedics and polio, I had nurses that worked for me that had been on that department for many years. They were very good. I never had a bit of trouble. But I always felt that there was resentment towards me and nurses thinking that I had just been the teacher’s pet to get in this position. I was anything but teacher’s pet – I was the child delinquent. In fact, Dr. Swindler got up and said that once at our ten-year reunion, “We’ve only ever had one child delinquent, and she’s now running my department.” But still, there was animosity, because I didn’t have to take calls and I didn’t have to work weekends. Sister Eddicta, who was over the OR, said, “Don’t pay any attention to them.” I tried not to, but it was hard. One day Dr. Howe came to me and he said, “I don’t know why you put up with this. Come and work for me.” He said, “I’ll give you holidays off, and you can go home at five o’clock every day, and you don’t have to come in until 9:30 or 10:00, and you can go home for lunch, and I’ll pay you more.” So I went to work for him at the Ogden Clinic for five years, and that was wonderful. My husband was, by this time, Chief of Police in South Ogden, and he says, “You know, you really don’t need to work that much. I’d like you to be home 14 with the children a little bit.” We had the two, a girl and a boy. We were having trouble because our daughter had had a subluxation of her neck. She was playing and fell, so she was in a collar for three months. Then our boy, I kept thinking, “He’s got petit mal. The pediatricians at the Ogden Clinic kept telling me no, it’s just you, you’re an overzealous mother. We went to Disneyland, and I counted how many times he did this [blinks eyes rapidly]. To me, that was petit mal. By now he was in the fourth grade, and my mother was teaching second grade over at Marlon where my kids went to school. One day both the kids came home in tears. My daughter’s got her head like this again [indicates with head], and he said, “I got sent to first grade because the teacher said I did not do what she told me to do, I did not pay attention.” I called Van Hook, who was still at work, and he said, “Bring those kids to me, and quit your sniveling.” So I did. He x-rayed my daughter’s neck and put her back in her collar and wrote a big letter to the school that she was never to do any tumbling, she has a subluxation of the neck, and this was never to happen again. (Her father had had the same thing playing football when he was in high school.) Then he looked at my boy, and he decided that he did have petit mal. He sent him for an EEG (electroencephalogram), and it was confirmed. He was put on six drugs, every day, for ten years. They weaned him off in the tenth grade, and later he had to go every year to get his license renewed with a neurosurgeon signing the paper, and he never had another problem. He’s fifty-three today, it’s his birthday. But I was right, he did have petit mal, and they kept saying, “He doesn’t drop anything?” No. He just loses the train of thought – he does this 15 [blinks rapidly], he just blinks. He didn’t lose his urine, like a lot of petit mals do, but they put him on Tridione and Dexidrine and Phenobarbital. He was a good little man. He took those pills at school. Your school nurses, they were extinct - they didn’t exist. He did okay and took care of himself. After I was through there, I decided that I was going to work a couple three-elevens back at St. Benedict’s. Sister Mary Margaret was gone – all of my champions were gone. I had had my sons EEG done there, and I went to pay the bill. I went to find out what three to elevens I was going to work and where also. They said, “Every Friday and Saturday night.” I just looked at them and said, “Pardon me? This party girl? No, that’s not going to happen.” I walked out of there furious, and my next door neighbor was driving the car. She said, “You know, just because you’re Catholic, it’s not the only hospital in this town.” I said, “Okay, take me over to the old Dee.” So we went. The Human Resource fellow was a young man I had dated in high school. The director of nurses was in there too, and they hired me for any three to eleven I wanted to work and paid me more money. So I ended up as the Director of Nursing in ICU, and I worked there for two years, three to eleven. I started out at two nights a week, then I went to three within a month and was on four within two months. I went full time after five months because they were so short of help. I did that for two years, and then I got tired of people dying. So I went down to Eva Jean, and I said, “Enough of that.” She says, “We need help in the OR.” I said, “I’ll go there.” So I went down 16 there. I started in 1964 at the Dee Hospital, and I went to the OR at ’66. I took over as head nurse in 1970 and department head in 1973. MJ: You’ve had quite the career. CW: I had a great career. McKay Dee paid for my Bachelor’s at the University of Utah and my Master’s at the University of Utah, and my post-graduate work. I had a great job. I loved that. I was department head over the surgical services, operating room, recovery room, same-day surgery, and the vascular lab from 1973-1993. Well, I actually went into OR education in 1987 or 1988. I can’t remember. I was getting older. I was fifty-eight or sixty by that time. I went into OR education and IHC needed somebody to put together a whole new system. It would be used in all the OR’s for nursing for the whole system of IHC, so I did that for them, and I also became chairman of OR capital equipment. I had to go meet at IHC Corporate once per month. So that was what I did for the last few years, and I retired in December of 1993. I worked forty years. Let me tell you, I am not a morning person, so it’s so nice not to have to get up in the morning and be there at seven o’clock. I can remember once, when I moved home right after I finished, my dad – he was assistant superintendent OUR&D down at the railroad, and he had to be to work at seven o’clock. He’d say, “I want to know how your feet can hit the floor at twenty after six and you’re at work at seven o’clock. I want to know how that happens.” I said, “Lots of practice, Dad. Lots of practice.” MJ: You got it down to a science. 17 CW: Absolutely. You take your bath at night, and you go to bed, and you get up and you just brush your teeth and you’re on the road. You’ve got your clothes all laid out, you wore a white uniform and white socks, and it was real easy. MJ: No decisions about “What do I have to wear today?” CW: Just as long as you have those starched uniforms, that’s all you needed. MJ: Tell us a little about the nuns. You’ve talked a little bit, but did you do any social activities with them or anything like that? CW: They used to have a little something at Christmas time. In the nurses’ home, when you came in the door, there were about three rooms on each side which were actually for women that were single who worked full-time at the hospital and lived there. One was for our house mother. She was from Wyoming, and she was from the same town that my grandfather owned the Kemmer Hotel, the bar and the barbershop – my mother’s father. My mother was from that very same town. Our house mother was Italian, but she was a spinster, and so were the other three- maybe it was only four rooms. Then there was a door that you went in, and from that place on, it was bathrooms, where our showers were, and our washroom was there. Then you finally hit our actual rooms, and then the nuns were all on this same first floor. Then there was a great big living room, which was just really pretty. It had a piano, a fireplace, and there was a big double door over here [indicates left]. It was an entrance hall, and a double door that was always locked, but it was open when they did their receptions. We had our capping ceremony in that living room. We got this little Florence Nightingale lamp, with a candle, which I still have, and our hat but we 18 didn’t get our pin until we graduated. So I guess that was it. They would have a spring tea and we had a Christmas program. I remember once we all went caroling. Sister Mary Gerald was a hiker and she would take us hiking. We’d go up to Mt. Ogden Park, and above it – there must have been apple trees. We used to pick apples up there. I can barely remember that. She was always outdoors. They still wore all those habits and everything, and I’d think “Gosh, I’m hot. What are you doing?” You know, with all that garb on. I noticed one of your questions was if we ever played any pranks. Yes, we did. The famous one was the saran wrap on the toilet seat, with the honey, or karo syrup, because it was clear. That’s always nice. One time I was coming out of that shower, and I had this real short bathrobe on, and Sister Berno, who was the director of nurses then, was coming down the hall, and she swatted me on the butt. She says, “You don’t prance around this hall like that, Miss Barr.” I said, “Oh, I don’t? Okay, all right.” I think it’s when they had played this prank on everybody, and I’m thinking, “I hope she doesn’t go in there and go to the john.” That would have been awful. I was in the shower when one gal did sit on that, and she screamed – maybe that’s why Sister Berno came down the hall, I don’t know, but oh my Lord, it was ugly. That was pretty funny. In our rooms, you went through the door, and there was a closet on either side. Our big thing was that you would close the door to your room, and open both closet doors. Then there was a chest of drawers at the end of each bed, and we had a desk that we shared with our roommates. We weren’t supposed to have food in the rooms but of course we had food. Our famous one was peanut 19 butter sandwiches. One night Sister Estelle was making the rounds to check and make sure we were all in the room. There were four of us, eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. We had the doors all open. “Miss Barr?” she opened that door, and of course it hit the closet door, so one of the gals went under the bed, and the other one went in the closet. Here we’re sitting, Norma and I, with these sandwiches. We weren’t quick enough. We got lecture number 2,550, about being nice ladies and following the rules. I was not one to follow the rules too much, except in my actual application of nursing. That was okay. MJ: Except where it’s important. CW: Yes, that’s where it was important. I guess that’s my story. MJ: Let’s see. Do you remember where you had graduation? CW: I believe it was the St. Joseph’s Church. It seems to me like that’s where we were. This is my actual book [picks up yearbook]. There’s a history – has anyone shown you this before? MJ: Do we have this one? MF: I don’t think we have that one. CW: You’re welcome to take that if you’ll return it to me. MF: Do you mind if we scan it? CW: No, no. There’s a little bit of history there in the front, and maybe that’ll tell you where we graduated. I don’t know – I’m seventy-seven, what do you want to know? MJ: Is there anything else that we haven’t asked you about? CW: I don’t think so. I think you have all the information I can remember. 20 MJ: Did you have any questions, Marci? MF: No, you asked them all.