Oral History Program Zula Brinkerhoff Interviewed by Jon Buttars 26 February 1971 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Zula Brinkerhoff Interviewed by Jon Buttars 26 February 1971 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. 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It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Brinkerhoff, Zula, an oral history by Jon Buttars, 26 February 1971, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Zula Brinkerhoff. The interview was conducted on February 26, 1971, by Jon Buttars, in Salt Lake City, Utah. Brinkerhoff discusses the Indians of Utah and the condition they are in. JB: This is Jon Buttars interviewing Mrs. Zula Brinkerhoff for a Utah history class. This interview will be added to the Oral History collection of Weber State College. Mrs. Brinkerhoff, we've enjoyed talking with you for a few minutes here and I'm particularly interested in the Ute Indians and their present day conditions. Would you care to comment on what the general conditions of the Ute Indians are today? ZB: Among the traditionalists, it’s tragic. The progressive Indians of course the ones that are living in the cities and three- fourths of them drink alcohol maybe they have gone to our schools and learned white man's ways would sell their people out for a mess of porridge they don't even care. But there's a group of Indians in Utah among the true Utes and it’s from St George clear through Roosevelt and Richfield and other places who are true Utes. Now these Indians do not believe in accepting aid from the government. Some of them on the Shivwit Reservation have had to. But amongst true Utes out in Roosevelt, there's about 50 true Utes that I know personally that have never accepted aid from the government, the very poor. For Chief Twohy and his people, he still has his long braids, they have always been warned that if they ever accepted aid from the government of the United States or people that come upon this land, that their Reservations would be taken away and that they would not have any place to live and for their grandchildren and people coming up in the future. And so they will not sell, they will not accept welfare 1 or aid from the government because they know if they do, everything will be taken from them. Now there was at a time when there was news, in newspaper articles when they received 38 million dollars settlement for the true Utes, I do believe that Brother Wilkinson what he thought was good to help these Indians and I think that his intentions were real good. JB: Is this President Ernie Wilinson of B.Y.U.? ZB: Yes, his intentions were good as far as wanting to help the Indian people is concerned, I won't say nothing against him, or people that maybe thought they were trying to help by paying the Indians off. But my associations with the Indians is not with the progressives, the ones who would sell their people out for twenty pieces of silver, but the ones who are willing to sacrifice and hang on to their Reservation for the future generations that’s going to come. So they don't believe in selling their Reservations. So when you got the money to pay them off, the true Utes fought this and went to court over it, because they didn't want to lose their land. They wanted to preserve their Reservation and not have it taken away from them and given to the white man, so they fought this, and they are still poor. They don't accept welfare, and they're people who can't get jobs; many of them can't read or write. So they're in very humble and drastic conditions as far as money is concerned. Now some of the Indians that did sign that they would accept this money and sell out found out that the money had gone in so many channels and lined a lot of wealthy people’s pockets that when it finally did get back to the Indian people, they got a thousand dollars. I've got a letter here from Chief Twohy that their people got one thousand, that the other people got one thousand dollars out of that and the Indians 2 went out and bought with the thousand dollars which was gone overnight because they don't know how to spend their money. The ground is what they need, not money. They need to preserve their Reservation so they'll have a place to live. Now the Indian people are different than we are. They like the open air, they like to hunt, they like to fish, they like to make pottery, jewelry, baskets and other things. So when the Reservation is taken and there's no place to go, they're taken to the cities and are dying in the slums. And they're drinking themselves to death because of discouragement because they're not like the white people. They don't fit, they're not a white person and they're no longer considered a traditional Indian. So they're sort of in between the fires. So it's really drastic. But these poor Indians when they were given a thousand dollars each for a settlement. Some of them went out and bought electric stoves, ranges and things like this from the stores. The stores sold it to them at the same time they never had electric lights in their houses, electric power. So when they got them home there was no place to hook them up so they are sitting outside the houses rusting out, and you can see them if you went out to Ute territory. You'd see the Frigidaire’s and electric ranges sitting outside. Their thousand dollars went that fast on things they could never use. Now there is no Reservation. JB: Do you think that the white people who sold them these appliances realized that they couldn't use them? ZB: I believe they did, and in one case I know of, they were laughing about it and saying where are the Indians going to plug them in at after they've got it, the electric stoves. Of course, they're money changers and money graspers, £o they don't care. They look for 3 the almighty dollar. The Indians aren't. There is a difference between Indians, the white man. The Indian doesn't think of the almighty dollar in the same sense that we do. In fact, if they had a thousand dollars today it would be gone tomorrow. They don't value money like we do and in one way maybe it would be good if they knew how to value money. But they don't and inasmuch as they don't, it's too bad when we take advantage of them. Now with the Shivwits Reservation down in St. George. The Shivwits Reservation extended clear over into the Grand Canyon. Oh I can't tell you how many millions of square miles they might have had, square acres I mean, that they might have had. It was way big, it took in St. George, Santa Clara, clear out to the Grand Canyon area in Arizona, this was the Shivwits Reservation. Through one executive order after another, they've whittled down to 20 acres. They have 20 acres and now because they have terminated them, Senator Hafen before he died wrote quite a long letter about this and I have it someplace, and he says it doesn't look to me like they're trying to terminating the Indians, it looks like they're trying to exterminate Indians. Because they have taken everything from them. Now the little Shivwit band which consists of just a handful of people, there wouldn't even be 50 or 25 people left out there. They are real poor, have been taxed $900 a year to live on their 20 acres. They are taxed for that now, and the Walker Bank owns the mortgage on their ground if they can't pay the taxes off the 20 acres is taken from them. Those Indians will not have a place to go. All Indians, and I mean this, from coast to coast and even overseas are watching the Shivwit band in Utah to see what happens to that little band of Indians. And if everything is taken from them, they are going to have trouble and I mean they are going to have trouble from other Indians, because they're right ready and waiting right now. But there 4 is a promise given to them, that when everything’s taken, the country will be destroyed. I could go into stories about that. Where country was taken from the Indians in Oregon but I don't have time for it because this is for you. But after the Reservation was taken the Indians was drawn off, driven off, white people got settled up in there, in their beautiful homes. A landslide came and wiped every one of them off the hill, there's not one left standing. The Indian knows this, when everything is taken from them, it's going to be sad for those who goes in on that Reservation. JB: These Shivwit Indians, from where do they derive their income, are they primarily farmers? ZB: Well, the Shivwits farm and do a few things like this. The Shivwits have no chief, they're not traditionalist like the Hopi, they're not traditionalist like old Chief Twohy out in Roosevelt and those groups that are fighting their battles and have got a chief. The little Shivwit band down in Utah/1 think that Mr. Snow is trying to help them as much as he can, but they have turned enough progressive that the only thing they can do to keep from starving to death is accept aid from the government. So they do live on a welfare program and have welfare. But see this is what the Indians have warned them never to do, so that's the reason now that they are in debt to the Walker Bank, they've accepted welfare. One thing after another and then they get them into the white way of doing and accepting welfare and things and they're no longer Indians. They're terminated, they're exterminated now, and then now they're charging them $900 a year taxes for 20 acres and they just don't have that, they don't have that money, they can't get jobs. Many of 5 them can't read and write. Where are they going to get $900 to pay those taxes? Of course when they can't pay the taxes it’s taken. JB: Now this sounds pretty bad for Utah Indians, how do the Utah Indians compare generally with Indians of other states like Arizona, etc.? ZB: I would say that the traditionalists, that the Arizona Indians are leaders among Indians everywhere you might say. Even from coast to coast they accept the word of the Hopi no matter where they may go, New York, Washington, California, they always hold a meeting up until the Hopi can get there because they accept the word of the Hopi above almost every other Indian. And there are an awful lot of good Indians in Utah that goes to these gatherings. But I would say that they've, in Utah, they are about to lose most of the Reservation in Utah. JB: What is the condition of the Uintah-Ouray Reservation in Utah? Have you been out there recently? ZB: Ouray Reservation, I think that is where Chief Twohy lives, there is a few traditionalists still on the Ouray Reservation. Others of them have turned progressive and have accepted the white man's ways and would accept rights of oil and minerals which we think is a lot of money, but could we get by on $50 a family? The average income of our Indian people is from $300 to $1,000 a year. That is an average. JB: Is that a Utah average? ZB: That is a national average and they will say those Indians have to lots of money to spend, they are getting rich royalties. But could live on $50 a month for a family? 6 JB: I certainly couldn’t. ZB: This is what some of their royalties amount to. Down in Arizona it is the same thing among the Navajo's. They say the Navajos are getting rich royalties they couldn't be poor, but the Navajos are hungry. They know what the word (whodingg) because that’s hunger. And the rich royalties that they think they are getting again is maybe $50 per family. And they have large families. JB: I know a number of white people that tend to think that the Indian's condition is largely a result of their own shortcomings. Do you think it is mainly their fault or do you think maybe it’s generally what the white people and governments are doing to them? ZB: I don't believe it’s entirely their fault. I think that Indians have weaknesses the same as white people and they have their weak and their strong among them. But I don't believe it’s all their own fault because I do believe that if you take the Indians as a whole, they might have had their troubles with each other, but they never had germicide wars like we have among the white people. They never did have the instruments that would go out a hill masses and masses of people. They might have had troubles occasionally, but they say that before the white people came upon this land they were peaceful. Because after their white brother walked and talked with them here, they were turning to be a peaceful people and the few of them that were left after the last bad battle turned to the Great Spirit. They were living in peace, they had a United Order system from coast to coast and from Utah, the Utah Aztecs would go down among the Aztecs of Mexico and they would have common storehouses from Mexico to Utah where they would clothe and feed their people as they were going. They never had to pay for anything along the 7 way. They would only take what they needed at that particular time. They knew that when these particular Aztecs from Mexico they would have the common storehouses here also for them. So they would raise corn and make clothes as they never did have a money system. The Utah Aztecs were really recognized and the Shoshoni say they are related to the Utah Aztec and the Aztecs in Arizona. We don't talk about the Utah Aztecs anymore; we don't even know what has happened to them. But the Shoshone Indian speaks often of the Utah Aztecs. JB: What is the Indians opinion of the Bureau of Indian affairs? ZB: I've never met a traditional Indian who had any faith in the Bureau of Indian Affairs as anything but just promises. They are continual promises; they promise them one thing after another. That they are going to do this for them or that for them and every single solitary time it has been a letdown. It’s meant that if they're ever going to do something for them and they let them do it, then their ground is at stake, they take so much of the ground away again because of the promises that's been made to them. They get their foot in the door and it’s to terminate the Reservation or exterminate them. The Bureau of Indian Affairs, I've had them call me up, because of the lectures I've given on Indians. They were wondering why petitions were coming in to save their lands, and this is mainly because of the Indian Resource Act bill the House number is 10560 the Senate number is 1816. If that bill is allowed to be passed there won't be an Indian Reservation left standing in the United States. They'll lose everything they've got, everything. It says in the bill that the Indians can go out. Now this is Utah Indians and all of them, can go out and they can borrow money. They can't write but they can put an "X" down and 8 have it witnessed that that is their signature, an "X". If they want to build a house or maybe go out and buy a car, they can borrow the money. Their ground is at stake if they cannot pay the money back. Then it says in the bill that the Secretary of the United States of America can levy any interest he wants on them. It doesn't have to be a specific amount right now. It will be anything that they desire at the time. If the interest is up that day it'll be more, however, it might be. It doesn't even say that there will be a certain amount of interest against that loan; they can put any amount against it they want. Immediately after they have put there "X" on the paper, as a signature with witnesses, then instantly that same day, a uranium company or an oil company can come in and buy the note. It is permissible to buy their note, so they can go out now and put oil wells and things like that on their ground and then take their oil from them. Then if they can't pay it back they lose their Reservations. At the tune of any amount of money that they may want to give them. This has been going on among the Indians and they do good if they get 45 cents an acre. And there has been Indian ground sold for 5 cents an acre. JB: Do these Reservations belong to a tribal council or are they as you mentioned divided up among the individual Indians so that each Indian has his own little plot of ground? ZB: The Indians don't buy or sell ground. They have so much ground for their house and such farming as they might need for their particular person. I don't know as much about the true Utes as I do about the Hopi. I know that with their ground everybody plants together and everybody harvests together, and they share what they have. It it’s a family of two they only take what they need for one, two or three years. They always 9 keep a three year food supply on hand at all times. Because they know that the day is coming when everything will be cut off. But I'm not sure about the Ute Indians. I do know that where the true Utes live if it’s Reservation, the people will plant according to their needs and everyone will use what they need to. They would have maybe a plot for their house and they could use what they wanted to plant. JB: What assistance do you think the Indians of Utah would like to have from the government? ZB: The main thing that they desire as far as help from the government is concerned is to lay off what ground they have now, not take any more from them. What's been taken they know they’ll never get back. But the main desire of the Utes right here in Utah is to please leave them with what ground they have to survive on because they don't want to come into the cities and live. They don't want to be driven to the cities, and the traditional Indians are traditionalists. You know some people like to hunt and fish and make pottery and things like that. You know some people don't want to live in cities they want to live on farms. Well Indians have their own way of life and it’s like Thomas Majakie says, "I'm Indian, I'm not a white man". He was raised in our schools and has two years of college but he is back on the Reservation. He says, "I like the open air, I like the freedom of an Indian life." They don't want to be made like us. And they are a different race, why should they? I think it is too bad when we look at their pottery and their jewelry. The Utes and their beautiful moccasins, beadwork, gloves and things like that that they have made, that's out of this world. It should take thousands of dollars to buy those outfits. Why should we throw all this away and make them all one people? 10 Don't you think the world is prettier, and more beautiful if we have the different colors of people, their different arts and handicrafts? Then if everybody had just one way of life? If everybody had their collars up to their neck and some dresses to their knees and others to their ankles, don't you think it would be prettier if there are the races like the Navajos with their velvet dresses clear down to their ankles or some of the other Indian tribes with their different customs? It would be a dull world if all the flowers in a garden were white. But it makes it a beautiful flower garden if you mix the colors. JB: Thank you very much Mrs. Brinkerhoff for allowing me to come into your home and interview you concerning your knowledge of the Indians of Utah. Mrs. Brinkerhoff has a book currently on the Indians which is called "God’s Chosen People of America" and published by Publishers Press of Salt Lake City in 1971. She also is working on two other books dealing with Indians and especially their difficulties. Thank you again Mrs. Brinkerhoff. 11