Oral History Program Teresa Salais Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 8 August 2024 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Teresa Salais Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 8 August 2024 Copyright © 2025 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Connecting Weber: History of the Cultural Centers oral history project documents the memories and history of the various cultural centers that were open at Weber State University. These centers included the Multicultural Center (later called the Center for Belonging & Cultural Engagement), Women's Center, Native American Cultural Center, Asian American and Pacific Islander Cultural Center, Pan-Asian Cultural Center, Black Cultural Center, and the LGBTQ Resource Center. The centers were closed in July 2024 due to state legislation. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Salais, Teresa, an oral history by Lorrie Rands, 8 August 2024, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections and University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Teresa Salais on August 8, 2024 with Lorrie Rands. The interview was conducted over Zoom. Teresa talks about her experiences growing up in Ogden, and her ups and downs navigating her education as a Latinx woman. She also shares the impact the Women’s Center at Weber State University had on her life. Also on the call is Raegan Baird. Note: Active listening, transitions in dialogue (such as “um,” “so,” “you know,” etc.), and false starts in conversations are not included in transcription for ease of reading. All additions to transcript noted with brackets. LR: Today is August 8, 2024. We are in a Zoom call with Teresa Salais [Sa-lay-iss]. Did I say that right? TS: Salais [Sa-lie-iss] but— LR: Salais, okay. Well, it’s important that I get it right. Doing an oral history interview for the cultural centers’ closings here at Weber State University. My name is Lorrie Rands conducting, and Raegan Baird is on the call as well. That being said, I'm going to say thank you yet again for your willingness to share your story. We're going to start with when and where you were born? TS: In 1974, I was born in Nueva Rosita, Coahuila, Mexico. A long time ago. LR: Not that long. We share the same birth year. TS: Oh, nice. LR: We're not that old. TS: I agree, we're not. No way. LR: You know, 50 is the new 40, right? TS: That's right. That's what I say. 1 LR: So did you—I'm not even going to try to repeat the name of the place where you were born, because I will butcher it. TS: Sure. LR: Is that where you were raised? TS: No, I was raised mainly here in Utah. I think we came from Mexico when I was about one or two years old. LR: Okay. Where in Utah did you first come to? TS: Ogden. LR: Ogden. Okay. So, your family dynamic, how did that look like when you moved here? TS: Well, my mom, she's not Mexican, she's Spanish. So, her family's from Spain. When she gave birth to me in Mexico, I was born early. She wasn't planning on having me out there. But I was born too early, and she wasn't able to cross the border. She didn't want to go through all the documentation that is necessary when you're born in Mexico. Which I'm so grateful that I was born in Mexico. It helps with some racist things I hear and all that, that I can say I was born there. You know, because they stereotype Mexicans from Mexico, so it's good that I can say that I was born there too, you know what I mean? My dad met my mom out there in Mexico, and so my dad is Mexican. They both came—my mom got my dad his citizenship, and me of course, and we came over here. I know we lived in Texas I think for maybe a year or two when I was little, Del Rio, Texas. Then we moved to here in Utah, Ogden. But I was raised also here in Davis County, so Layton as well. 2 LR: What prompted them to come specifically to Utah? TS: So, that's where my mom was born, here in Ogden, Utah. But she met my dad. I don't even know how they—her and my grandma went to Texas, and then I don't know how my mom met my dad. I think it was in Texas or something. LR: Okay, that makes sense. So, are you the oldest? TS: I am. LR: How many siblings do you have? TS: I have one younger brother. LR: Okay. So, growing up in Ogden, what are some of your memories of that? TS: Like good ones or bad ones? LR: Whatever you're willing to share. TS: Yeah, I think growing up in Ogden for me was really tough. I know it was really tough. I think it was 11 or 12 years old is when I got jumped for the first time when I got off the bus stop. I was teased a lot in the school. I don't know, in Ogden I wasn't Mexican enough, and in Davis County I wasn't white enough. That sounds funny, but it's like I didn't belong in either group in a sense. That was hard. Let's see, so when I got jumped, I think I was 12 already. My mom then put me in school here in Davis County. She used my aunt's address, and then I would ride the bus here. You know, at least I wasn't getting in fights or getting jumped and all of that out here. LR: So, the difference in location. TS: Yes. 3 LR: It's hard for someone like me to understand this because I fit in physically, right, with the culture. TS: Yeah. LR: How is that? Because, I mean, you're 12, 13 years old when you start going to Davis County, and you're seeing a different type of stereotype happening. How did you process that, or were you able to? TS: I really wasn't able to back then at all. Other than just feeling like I didn't belong, you know? But at least, like I said, I wasn't feeling threatened or, you know, that I wasn’t at risk for physical harm in Davis County. Going back, I guess a little bit further, when I was about five, when I did start school in Ogden, my first language is Spanish. Of course, in elementary school, my accent and all of that was thick, which sounds so funny because I talk fine now. But I think it's because of what happened to me when I was about five years old. Kids would tease me all the time. I couldn't say my r's correctly and all of that. There was just that whole Spanish accent when I would speak, so being teased a lot, I quit talking in Spanish, and now I regret that, obviously. But I understand it 100%. My dad mainly speaks Spanish, and he would talk to me in Spanish and I'd answer him in English. There was a sense of embarrassment and shame with the language, which is hard to admit. Now when I talk Spanish, I have a lot of anxiety about it. I don't know, I feel like I'm judged, obviously now from the Mexican side, because it's not as fluent or smooth as they would speak. I just, I don't know, but I do my best. I've done therapy in Spanish with some clients, 4 which has been good. They were just grateful to have somebody that understood 100%, you know? LR: Going to school, what are some of your memories of just going to school and trying to get an education? TS: You know, education really wasn't that important in my family, as weird as that might sound. Not saying that I didn't need to attend school and all of that, I did, well at least until I was 14 anyways. But there wasn't a lot of that, like, at home teaching me, reading the books and stuff with me. That just wasn't a thing in my family, really. LR: Was there ever a time where you were encouraged at school to keep going, to get an education? TS: No, like from outside, except family. Like with my family, sure. Like, "Oh you need to go to school," because I dropped out at 14. But it was—my grandma, she would yell at me about it, but it didn't matter. Like, they didn't make me go. LR: Was there anyone in school that— TS: Advocated for me or wanted me to come? No. LR: Okay, so dropping out at 14, what prompted that, if you're willing to share? TS: I was dating a guy back then. I thought I was a grown-up at that age, which was obviously the biggest illusion ever. LR: After that, was there ever a time when you were, “I should go back. I should finish school?” TS: Not until I was 17. LR: Okay, what brought that about, that “I need to finish school?” 5 TS: I was pregnant, and I realized at that point that I need to at least get my GED. I knew I wanted to go to school to get some type of trade. That was the first step, was getting my GED, and I did that through the DATC. Got my GED there, and after that I went to travel school, which is funny. It's to be a travel agent, basically. That was my first career path, in a sense. I worked for Continental Airlines, if you remember them. LR: Yes. TS: So, I worked there for a couple of years. LR: Okay. I just want to do a quick, if there's a question I ask that you're not comfortable with, please just let me know— TS: Sure. LR: —and we'll move on. Getting back into my thought here, so you— TS: I traumatized you with that answer [laughing]. LR: No. TS: All good, I shock the hell out of people all the time with it. Not all the time, I don't share it a lot with a lot of people, because it does freak them out. But I'll tell my close therapist friends, I'll say, “Hey, I've been through something that you will never have a client tell you.” They're like, “What? Whatever,” you know? Then I tell them they're like, “Damn, yeah. That's nothing like—" “Yeah, I know.” LR: No, I just want to be sensitive, is all. TS: You're fine. I don't get offended easily. Not at all. 6 LR: Let's see, you're probably 18, 19 working at— TS: Continental Airlines? Yeah. LR: Obviously trying to make a life for yourself and your child. TS: Yep. LR: What are some of the obstacles you faced during that time? TS: Definitely childcare. That was a nightmare, finding good childcare, money for childcare. Those were the main things. Housing, I was okay because I was on housing assistance. LR: Did you ever feel like there was a place where you could go to get support? Or was it more of a I'm on my own? TS: I'm on my own. I was on my own. I mean, outside of my mom and my grandma. LR: Yeah. This is a very subjective question. TS: Sure. LR: How do you think things would have been different if there was a place where you could have gone and felt like, “I can actually ask for help.” How do you think things would have been different? TS: I think if there was that safety and being able to ask, because the fear. With trauma, you know, obviously—well, I shouldn't say obviously, but I went through a lot of childhood trauma. I think with trauma we automatically become very protective and not disclose a lot of the vulnerable things that somebody could hurt us with. So, there was never, that was not a thing, to be able to ask or lean on or look up to somebody doing good things, in a sense. 7 I guess what I mean by that is like, seeing Hispanics like—this is the part of Utah that really does suck. We don't see a lot of Hispanics in higher positions. As far as having role models to look up to, to see that I could really do such a thing, was nonexistent. My beliefs in growing up were white people were in those positions, not Hispanics. That was not even a thought at all that I could be anywhere big. Like, where I'm at today, it’s a miracle to me still. That's one of the things, and why I do try to go and speak at different places like the schools. I'm so grateful now to hear these schools have this Latinos in Actions Program. It's like, the Hispanic kids get together, and it's a group. I've went and I've spoken to them about my whole life story and where I am today. It was amazing. It's wonderful. Those kids can see there is a Mexican in a great position, business owner and doing great. That is achievable. It's not just white people. Unless you see somebody you identify with, it's hard to make that your reality. It just is. So, if I had somebody like me come to the school in junior high, I really wonder if that would have—I know it would have impacted me tremendously. I can't say that it would've 100% altered my whole course, I still had unresolved trauma and all of that, but I know that would have helped a lot, and that's why I try to do that. LR: So, it's about ’93, 1994. I am fully going off of my own timeline, so here we go. You're working, what was your next— TS: Big thing? LR: Big thing, yeah. 8 TS: So, I ended up pregnant with my second child. During that pregnancy I had the great idea to call in sick and take my son to the fair in Salt Lake. One of my bosses seen me, and then I got fired from Continental Airlines. That's another major event that occurred, and that then changed my course as well. After being terminated and trying to figure things out here and having my daughter, my second child; she was about five months old I think, we moved to San Diego where my mom had moved. We were in San Diego, of course I can't remember how many years. Probably like six, I think. Maybe. LR: Okay. So that move, what was it like culturally to move from Utah to San Diego? TS: It was very hard. Change was really hard for me. But as far as the culture, it was nice to just see more Hispanic people. That was a great thing. It's like nobody cares what you're doing or look like or any like, you just don't feel that oppression in California. I don't know how to explain it other than that. You just feel freer there. I don't know. LR: Okay, that makes sense. Six years in San Diego, during that time, what is your main goal during those six years? TS: Well, during those six years, the events that occurred, I did meet somebody and we did get married. Then I had my third child out there. After a while, I want to say, can't remember how old my baby was, maybe two, my third child. It's like at that point, it was understanding that education is important. I don't know how that light bulb finally clicked at that time. So, I went to school out there to be this—it's just so hilarious—A+ Certification computer person. Yeah, I know, obviously I 9 was chasing money. That was not a dream, it was money. So, I went to school for that. I didn't fully complete it. At that time, I was going through severe depression, postpartum, now looking back. I got so depressed, and I was like, in bed for almost a whole year with the depression. I was so overweight and somebody offered me drugs to give me energy. I stupidly did it and I got hooked immediately, literally. The one time using it, I became completely addicted. Then at that time, my husband, I don't know why the hell he did it, but he did. He had a great job. He was a network engineer at the news station there in San Diego. So, we were finally better off financially, obviously, until the drugs came in. Then he started using too. But I don't think he got addicted the way I did. He was able to stop. So, we got evicted from our place and we were forced to move back to Utah, because my mom wouldn't help me. She was so hurt and disappointed that she did what she, you know, the only thing she could do was just basically not really talk to me unless I was going to really change. In my brain I was too stuck on the drugs and survival that there would be no way that I was going to stop at that time. She didn't talk to me for a long time. Me and my husband at the time, and my three kids and our pets, were in my van and we drove here. We had nothing, and so we drove back here to Utah so my grandma could help me. I stayed on the drugs for about two years. It was like the longest two years ever. The biggest regret is obviously that my kids had to go through that, and all the hardships and evictions. I got evicted from so 10 many apartments out here. Eventually, in 2003. No, I also got pregnant with my fourth child, and he was born in 2003, and I went to rehab in 2004. The way I finally got to go to rehab was, I think it was about eight months prior or something like that. I can't remember exact timeline, but my house got raided and I went through the court system and they gave me this thing called a plea in abeyance. So, if I complied with the court's orders then that charge would have been completely dismissed. The baggies and drugs that they had found would be totally dismissed if I complied and did everything I was required to. I couldn't get clean though. For a while I was, you know, lying and not using my urine basically and just getting away with it, till finally my one counselor caught on. She made me test in front of her and all of that and obviously I was dirty and I had to remain clean from the next day on. I had to go test every single day, and if I was dirty, I was going to go to jail, she said. I couldn't get clean. I went in, I tested dirty, and I hurried up because she was this nice little lady. She was off for a couple of days, and I just kept thinking, “If I can get into a rehab, maybe she won't put me in jail.” But going to rehab meant who is going to watch my four children? Because me and my husband had gotten a divorce already at that time, too. That didn't work out. But I was dating another guy, and him and his mom watched my kids while I went into rehab. I'll tell you the funniest thing about the drugs, like it still blows my mind how drugs really affect you in this way. I had a weird belief during that time that if I came off the drug, that I would die, literally. I literally thought I would die. So, 11 when I finally found a rehab, it was Ogden Regional's ACT, I was so happy and grateful. The other patients there were like, “Why the hell are you so happy?” I was like, “’Cause it's finally over.” I knew that if I died, I was in the hospital, that they could revive me. Like, I really was not going to die coming off of this drug, like that was not real, it was just in my head. But I really was the happiest person in the rehab. I was so grateful because I knew it was going to finally be over. I didn't know how or what, but I just knew I was going to finally not—I was going to be able to make better choices and stuff. I did that rehab for the 30 days. I relapsed one time after rehab, but then I freaked out and cried that I was going back to that awful thing, and then I ran as fast as I could from it. In June of 2004—I went to rehab April 15th and got out May 15th. Then the guy I was dating, he was also abusive. That's my history. I date abusive men. He was abusive, and I'm like clean now, I'm seeing clear. I want a better life for me and my kids, so I took me and my kids to Safe Harbor Shelter. We stayed there for a little bit, and then finally got my apartment. But while I was in Safe Harbor, I don't know what your beliefs are, but mine are in God. God told me so loud, like I've never heard before. It sounds so funny, and I crack up, but at the shelter he told me I needed to go to school to be a therapist. It's like, that seems so funny. You know, here I am, I'm homeless with four children, and God is saying to do that. When I would tell people they would be like, “Oh no, you need to just go get a trade and get you and your kids on your feet.” 12 In which, yes, of course, that's logical. I just was like, “No, I get it, but God wants me to do this.” I don't believe in myself, obviously, because look at where I'd gotten me and my kids. But I believed in God enough to go through those motions. But I was scared to death, literally scared to death. I will never forget the first day me walking on those stairs of that campus. I will never forget that fear. But of course, I went through with it and so grateful. That's kind of what I mean by I ran away from that life as much as possible. I went to rehab in ‘04 and I started college January of ‘05. So, I had basically like two brain cells, trying to get an education, but I was fighting for it, I didn't care. I was grateful VOC rehab did help me too. They helped pay for things as well, for my education and throughout college. It's so funny. I even had to ask my best friend, because sometimes we remember things and we forget some other things. But I asked her, I said, “When I was in college like, did I used to say, I don't know if I could do this, or I'm not going to make it, or like I might quit?” Or whatever, because in my mind I didn't have those thoughts. It wasn't a thing. She was like, “No, literally hell no. In your mind it was like, either I do this and get this degree, or I'm going back to drugs and being homeless and destroying my kids’ lives.” Like she goes, “It was literally, that was the two options in your brain,” and so I fought like hell. Like, I never ever wanted to be in that position again. I never wanted to be poor again and needing food and shelter and stuff like that. When I got my bachelor's degree at Weber State through the social work department, it was the proudest day. Truly. Everybody that didn't think I could do 13 it, and I didn't even know half of the people that had that thought, because I didn't even care. It didn't matter what people thought at that time. They all apologized to me at my graduation, at my party. I'm like, “Oh, I don't even care. It's obviously duh. The odds were 100% against me.” I don't hold that against people having those opinions or thoughts. But it was so cool like to see everybody crying and, you know, just amazed that I made it through. Then I went on to get my master's degree, because to be a therapist, you have to have your masters. I didn't get accepted to the U. That's actually a hilarious story. The U sent me a letter, a denial letter. I was like devastated and sad. A few days later, I got another letter from the U, and I thought, “Oh my gosh, maybe they're letting me in after all.” No, it was another denial letter. Then a few days later, I'm not even kidding you, I got another letter. I'm like, “Oh my gosh, maybe I am in the program.” No, it was another denial. I was like, “Damn, okay, I won't go, I won't go.” I was like, “You jerks.” But I did get into Walla Walla University and I got into Boise State University. Thank God we got into Boise State, even though that was sort of—I do have a racist story that delayed my education there. Walla Walla, that meant I had to drive seven hours there and stay for classes, and then drive back seven hours. I talked my best friend into doing it with me, thank God, so I didn't have to drive alone. We didn't do Walla Walla since we were able to get into Boise because Boise was, they have a branch in Twin Falls, Idaho. We would drive to Twin Falls, and that was about two and a half or three hours away, and then stay the night because classes were two 14 nights a week. So, like a Tuesday night and a Wednesday night. We'd sleep there one night and come home in the middle of the night the following night. I was grateful that I had her with me. During that time, we had a professor that was literally an awful person. I was the only Hispanic in the master's program. The only minority at all. The professor really did not like me, for whatever reason. I really don't know. I kept getting low scores. I did go to her, and I just called her and I was like, “Can you give me any feedback or suggestions on how I can improve? My scores are low.” She literally started yelling at me and telling me, “Quit feeling sorry for yourself.” I was like, I wasn't talking even like this, I was just like, “Hi,” you know, I was professional. Just literally it was not a pity anything, it was literally just, “Give me some feedback, guide me so I can do better.” Her yelling at me, saying, “Quit feeling sorry for yourself.” I don't remember what else she said other than yelling at me and telling me to quit feeling sorry for myself, because I just was like, “What the hell?” That was crazy. Anyways, by just a few points, I failed the class. I was the only one that failed the class. It wasn't that I wasn't trying or working hard, in fact, the boy—I say the boy, he was a young guy, white male next to me. Like, tell me if you ever heard of this. He would literally handwrite the assignment that was due that day in class. Handwritten. Who the hell can turn in a handwritten assignment in a master's program? Nobody. It has to be typed, and it has to be APA format, like there are rules and guidelines that you have to follow. But this guy was handwriting and it was totally fine. He was getting A's. In fact, when some of my 15 papers, I was like, “Hey, you keep getting A's, will you proofread my thing? But be honest, tell me the truth, because I don't want to fail the class.” I even had him proofread my stuff. He felt that it was fine, I don't know. When I failed that class, it totally altered everything in my life because that meant that I had to go for another year of college commuting by myself. I was so devastated, and I called and I begged that lady to let me do the entire course work over the Christmas break and resubmit everything. She said, “No, that wouldn't be fair to the other students.” I got along good with all the students, and I said, “What if I get a signature from them all saying that they're okay with it?” She was like, “No, that's not going to happen.” Like, she was not trying to help at all. So, that didn't happen, I did end up having to add an additional year. In fact, I know Boise State was shocked that I kept going. I know they didn't think I was coming back. A lot of my friends thought I was going to drop out too. But honestly, as hard as that lesson was, it's one of the biggest lessons I will teach people that I went through. I tell them that we do not let other people determine our path in life. It doesn't matter, you know, we keep fighting and doing what we need to reach our goals; that there are going to be people in our lives that are going to try to stop us and slow us down, but we just keep pushing through. Especially like with my kids. I've taught them that a lot, and a lot of these hard things I've been able to learn and grow from, I can share with people, including clients. Things like that, to have them keep pressing forward regardless of people trying to hurt you or keep you down or not support you. Things like that. 16 I don't know, I was just so grateful that I made it through, to be honest. Like, that was a big accomplishment. Weber State I did walk, I had the cap and gown. It was amazing. Boise State, it was a, “You assholes.” I wasn't going to go walk and do a damn thing and travel to Boise. I just wanted my damn degree at that point so I can move on with my life, you know? Not that I wasn't proud. I was proud and grateful, but not of the university. The way that they handled that, because I did report it, but I didn't get the support at all. But again, there's the things, the hindrances. The, “Why is there a difference between me and this guy that sat right next to me and he'd hand write his assignments and get A's?” There was nothing that I could do that was going to make my grade any better. She was going to fail me, and there's no way it was due to my—not saying that I was the smartest person. But if this guy could pass with handwritten things, give me a break. After that I worked at Davis Behavioral Health. I was so grateful to get the job at Davis Behavioral Health. My aunt, she's passed away now, but one of my aunts that I was the closest to, she had schizophrenia. When I was a little kid, I remember me and my mom taking her to a place and leaving her there for a while, then we would go back and pick her up. Taking her there, it was like she was talking crazy and it was like, I don't know. I didn't understand as a little kid what's going on with her. But we dropped her off and then we picked her up and she was better. She was back to herself again. You know, it was just magic. That building was magic, and it was Davis Behavioral Health. I was so grateful when I was able to get the job there too, because I also had a therapist, and my 17 therapist was there as well. She was actually in charge of the adult mental health team. Then weird things happen. Discrimination again happens. It's unfortunate. My therapist, I loved her so much. She inspired me a lot. But then when I got the job there, she did something that she shouldn't have done. Obviously, there's no way I could prove it, but she was telling people about my past. She disclosed my information that I'd shared with her in sessions. In fact, there's no way she didn't, because actually one guy I remember years later would say something like about my past of addiction. There was so much shame in that. Like, I still to this—I hardly share that. I'm starting to get out there and share it, but the shame in that is so enormous for me. So, I was treated different, and my boss at that time would literally be horrible. During our weekly supervision, she'd either threatened to fire me or yell at me. She yelled at me one time and asked me if I was stupid or something. Like it was literally awful, and the administration did nothing about it. It was like the creepiest thing. It was like such a domestic violence lifestyle there. It was like, my boss, she'd be so supportive and helpful and then so abusive and demeaning. When I went to admin, they were like, “But she’s so this and that, and she's this for you, and da-da-da.” I'm like, “Okay, yeah, the picket fence and the beautiful house is wonderful, but there's a storm going on inside. Y'all need to help.” But they weren't willing to look into that at all. It just was not a thing. I went through so much harassment. 18 So like, what they do is random audits for documentation, it's an outside agency that does it. My audit came back and my score was perfect. My friends around me, they all had minor things they needed to fix, but they had the things to fix, right? Well, I think that, this is my guess, I don't know 100%. But they audit me again, and I'm literally the only one who got two audits. I think it's like they wanted to, they were just thinking, “No way. How the hell is her things all perfect or correct?” I don't know, but the second audit came back perfect too. But it was just funny because nobody else got audited twice. Eventually, they fired me. They finally got me at the end, which I am so grateful to God that they did that, because for those two years that I was there, I was fighting to prove myself so, so much. When I had my good friend, Brad, who was the golden child there. But our stats, our everything, we were like equals. Everything was so the same, except I was not the chosen one, he was. That’s basically the best way I could describe it. They ended up firing me for something so stupid, I don't even know how they got away with it. I was also working at Family Counseling Services at the time in Ogden. Very part time, and once I received my full licensure, the L for the LCSW, they bought me a little cake saying, “Congratulations on your LCSW.” I took a picture and I posted it on Facebook. I literally was not demeaning and sure, yes, I was implying, but there was no way to prove it. What I said was, “I'm so grateful to work for an agency that really just truly values and appreciates their employees.” Well, a DBH person went and turned that in and twisted it, but that's literally all it said. But saying that I was basically putting DBH down, which yeah, 19 was in my mind and my intention, but it didn't sound that way technically. So, they fired me over that. Like I said, I don't know, I would hope I wouldn't have continued staying there, but I was still trying to prove myself. Now looking back and seeing such dysfunction there, it's so disappointing. Because those patients need real care, and they're not getting it. A lot of the therapists that remain there are, I don't know, the therapists that maybe shouldn't be in the field anymore, or are burned out, or have been in that dysfunctional system, that they're just not healthy. I can't say 100% of people, but a lot. The ones I did know, I've got them all out of there, and they started their private practices too. So, like get them out and see what being a real therapist is like. After that, I went through a major depression, so I stayed at Family Counseling Services for, you know, part time. Finally pulled it together and started going after my dream to be in private practice, because that was my goal, my hope and dream my entire time. I am so beyond grateful. I don't know if you guys might have heard of this agency called Aspire. They're counselors, and what they did for me was amazing, and they'd done it for a lot of people. What doing your private practice with them meant was, I went and I’d pay rent. At first that rent amount was enormous and I was like, “Oh my gosh, like I don't even know how, what if I can't pay that” you know, or whatever. It was so cool because in the beginning, you only paid a percentage of what you made, what you actually brought in. But to help somebody get started, or to get going or whatever. It was awesome until the third month, when I think I ended up having 20 to pay like a ton, like that percentage was even more than what my rent was going to be for several months. I was like, oh my gosh, writing that check. But they helped me. They helped me grow and develop into having a successful private practice. One of the owners, I'd say both of the owners, like, I love them so much. One of them is definitely one of my bestest friends in the world. He'll help me at any time, even though I'm no longer with Aspire and on my own, he'll come and help me hang pictures on the wall or whatever’s going on. If I'm upset or crying or whatever, he'll show up. He's such a great support. I'm so grateful. But they, like they allowed me to be in so many meetings with them and just learning how to even have employees; just all the things to be successful in this field. They really just helped me a lot. I always say how grateful I am to them. I don't know that I would be where I am. I know I would get here eventually, but maybe not as fast. I guess I should say the timeline. I opened my business in 2016, and I remained a solo provider until I think it was 2020. Then I hired two employees. Then I hired a third employee, and then that's when rent was just too much like to stay at Aspire. Because rent, like I said, is a lot there, because of all the services they provide you and all that support. That's when I finally decided to get my own suite, and that's where I am right now is in the suite that I'm leasing. That change was extremely hard and scary, because every single day I had my support system all around me at Aspire, and here I'm not. There is no support system. I can't have my employees be my support system. You know what I mean? That was just tough. But figuring out ways of keeping that, for 21 example, we do a meeting once a month with a bunch of private practice owners that we're here to support each other. Of course, I still have my good friends at Aspire that I'll call any time, and they're very supportive and help me with anything. Then I want to say it was in 2021 is when I started my other company, and that's Salais Medical Billing. Originally, I only started that company because I thought, “This is a great tax write off.” So, the counseling company can pay the billing company and then taxes will be better in that way. I did that for a while, and then just started growing that this year and have actually doing billing for other agencies. So, that business is growing too. As of right now, we currently have 11 therapists in my counseling place. I'm the 11th one, and then I have three support staff. The support staff help with the billing company as well. Oh, and then another huge thing is that I am having a commercial building built. You know where Weber State Davis Campus is, right? You know how when you're leaving that long driveway to get out, and then when you get to the end, you can only turn left or right on University? LR: Right. TS: Instead of turning left or right, if you go straight into that dirt, that's going to be my building. It's a perfect location, so I'm super excited about that. It's going to be about 8000 square feet. I'm scared to death; I won't even lie. The banks don't know I'm scared to death. Obviously, you have to act like, you know, confident and all that. But I'm scared, that's a huge building and a lot of responsibility. I had thought about buying a building that was already built. You know, it'd be less 22 expensive, but I'm single still, and with that comes repairs all the time, and things that I'm not equipped to handle. That's one of the main reasons I chose to build new. But also, I'd say the biggest reason whatsoever that I'm even buying anything is because of the walls. We can hear each other in the offices, and we specialize in treating trauma; which obviously now knowing some of my background why that's my heart and my passion, is to help people avoid going through and making poor choices like I did. If I would have gotten treatment when I was younger, I think a lot of the choices I made would have been better than what I did. You just don't know. You have no idea until you heal. With us all specializing in trauma here, you know, my mouth is so loud, and when I laugh, everybody can hear it. But then in the room next door, somebody is processing that their daughter died in their arms, you know what I mean? I hate that so bad that I'm willing to get the building to make sure that we have soundproof walls, and with the new build they are going to make them soundproof; fiber in the walls and everything. So, I'm excited about that. Let's see, trying to think of what else I've been up to. I am part of the master—because I kind of reviewed your questions really quickly, because you’d just sent them right before I got on. But one of the things that I am involved in is kind of on a hold right now, but I was in the social work community board. Basically, for the development of the master's program in Social Work, they had a board that they created, and I got to be part of the board. Here's where my Hispanic-ness got me in somewhere, is because their focus is on Latinx 23 population. My good friend Carrie Kennedy, she's now the chair there, invited me to be on the board. I was grateful for that opportunity. We joke all the time about it. I was like, “Oh, I just got in because I'm Mexican.” She goes, “Yup, shut up.” Well, she's fun, I love her. She's so good. Another thing that I'm doing is I am going to be teaching for the first time. In the fall, I'll be teaching a Social Work Diversity class here at Davis campus. So grateful for those opportunities. A big thing I do is I bring in a lot of interns from Weber State that work with me, that I train. In fact, I actually have one, and maybe you guys have heard of him. He just graduated from the bachelor's program. I can't even think of, what is it called? What is it called when you do amazing, and then you get an award in the college program? I can't remember what it's called when you're top of your class. Can’t even think of the name, I don't even know. But he got that. There's a little video of him from Weber State even, for the graduation, they did a video of his life and all of that. I'm lucky enough to have gotten him placed with me for his master's program to do internship with me. But he has no vision, and so that's going to be amazing and challenging at the same time. But I'm excited. One of the things that I take the most pride in is helping these therapists grow and develop and become good at what they're doing. When I get the reward from his success, that's going to be the biggest reward I've ever received from any employee. You know what I mean? Because there's so many challenges, but I'm excited about it. 24 Yeah, that's I think a lot of what I'm still involved with Weber, and grateful honestly. The biggest difference is Weber, and this is what I'll tell people when they're going to go there. The biggest difference, at least from what I've known, is that Weber, their goal is to help you succeed. Like, the professors want you to succeed. They're not trying to get you. They will help you. They'll work with you, because they did, like anytime I was struggling. Unlike the lady at Boise. I mean, it was normal. I would contact the professors and say, “How can I so better? Guide me, da-da-da.” But the Boise lady, it was such an awful thing in her mind, I guess, to ask for that support. But with Weber State, everybody and anybody I ever asked for help, they always were good to me. Always. Especially Carol. Oh, let me talk about Carol real quick. This was another major role in my life. When it was time to do my practicum for my bachelor's program, this is the funniest part of all of it. I don't know, obviously, I definitely was on drugs, because I didn't even think about how I had criminal charges on my record. I didn't even think that one through. Thank God I didn't, because if I would have thought it through and if I would have researched it, I would have found out that I couldn't get my license to be a therapist if, in fact, I had researched it prior. I'm so grateful that it didn't even cross my mind to get to that point until I was gonna be my doing my practicum for my bachelor's program. Then I had a miracle happen with one of my criminal charges. I went to the judge, and I was about to graduate and I had gotten accepted into Boise. I pled with him to please remove that charge, even though that's not what judges do. They don't do that. You're supposed to go through BCI and have it expunged, 25 but it was non expungable. Anyways, this man, he didn't even know how to do it. He asked the prosecutors, “Well, how would I do that if I wanted to?” They were like saying, “Well, maybe this form,” whatever, you know, dada-da. I was like, “Oh my gosh.” Anyways, he granted it and I started crying. He was like, “People don't normally cry when they get what they want.” I just said, “You gave me my life back. Like, I have an opportunity for real life.” You know, I'm so, so grateful for that big thing. But going back a little bit, trying to get my placement. I asked [the] professor like, “Will they do a background check?” That's when it came to my mind. He's like, “Yeah, why?” I had to tell him, which there was so much shame back then like to disclose that. Anyways, he found Carol and he goes, “I have somebody that’ll interview you, but I'm not going to guarantee anything,” you know, blah blah. I was like, “That's fine, that's fine.” I went and I met with Carol, and she was amazing from the beginning. Like, just so open and accepting, didn't give a damn about my past in the way of judging and not trusting me. It was so cool because—I can't even remember the name of the building. You know, the building where they had the Non-Trad Center and the Women's Center. Is it still, was it always there, like until the end now? LR: Originally it was in the Student Service Center and then they moved over to the Shepherd, the Union Building. 26 TS: The Shepherd, that one, when it was barely built, brand new, barely all that. Carol and them were moving in just barely into that new Women's Center. She gave me the biggest office in the corner that had all the windows and it meant everything to me. I don't even know how to explain. Like, number one, I was trusted. Like, that seems so basic, but I was trusted. I had a key to the place. I mean, after the life I had just lived, I don't know. Those moments were so big, and I would just tell everybody, “It feels like I have a key to the city.” Like, just joking and stuff, because I don't know, going from that horrible life and not being trusted, and of course, because you were not trustworthy you were making stupid choices. That was such an honor, Carol just supporting me and encouraging me and helping me create things that I've never done. I don't know, it was so cool to have that. I would say she's probably the first person who actually really believed in my abilities. Whereas everybody was thinking, you know, I should get a trade or things like that. She's the one who really believed in me and was very vocal and proud of me and stuff like that. I owe a lot to her. She was amazing to me. LR: So, up until that time that your professor was talking with you about Carol, had you ever heard of the Women's Center? Had you ever utilized any of the services that the Women's Center offered? TS: Yes, I did. I applied for scholarships through them, and I had received I think maybe $500 a semester, or something that they approved me for. Yeah, I was so grateful for that help. It was so good. How did I make it through college? Well, I made it through with VOC rehab, financial aid, and loans, you know student 27 loans. Like, I had to take care of me and the kids as well, you know what I mean? Any extra money was really good. LR: Was there any other center on campus that you felt like you could go to, to receive support? TS: Only the Women's Center. That's the only one I utilized, I think. Well, I know back then, you're still in survival mode, and then adding college, you’re really in survival mode. You're not thinking about self-care too much, do you know? It was like I had tunnel vision to get this done. Like I said, it was like, either that or I'm going back to hell. Like, that's either I succeed or going to hell. There wasn't much opportunity or thought process to go get any other support outside of the Women's Center. But it's so disappointing that it's gone, you know? LR: If you're willing to share, what are some of your, you've kind of mentioned it a little bit, but what are some of your feelings about the Women's Center and the Culture Centers closing? TS: It's upsetting. It's so upsetting. Like I said before, in this state, we don't see enough minorities in good positions to have those role models, so where are we going to get it from? These, what are they called now? Departments? These departments provided that sense of connection. Yes, I didn't use the Cultural Center, but I would have my son use it now, because he's not in survival. He gets to live his great life and go to college. He would be able to go and utilize those programs that are not there. But it's like I said, it'd be great to see more minorities, even in just this goal of receiving a college education. Without that, I don't know. I just think it's—I don't 28 know how to explain it. It just falls again with everybody thinks we're equals, or wants to pretend like we're equals. One, that is still so untrue. In fact, we had a booth at the Ogden Pride and I received an ugly message about how I'm going to go to hell, and this was a former friend even, that they thought I believed in God and da-da-da, you know. I'm like, “Oh yeah, that's right, we're all equals here in Utah. We don't need to have diversity or any of these extra supportive services.” Just so stupid. It's very disappointing. LR: Do you have any questions, Raegan? Okay, you kind of touched on it a little bit when talking about your son, but how do you think the—this is kind of a twoparter. How do you think students are going to react to the centers closing, and how do you think that will impact the students? TS: It just puts another negative view. Utah again, it's trying to I don't know, I guess it's weird to think in this way. It's like, “Man, are they feeling threatened?” I mean, now that they're seeing some people rise up and do good things, why would they remove those programs? It literally made zero sense to me, other than how are they so threatened by it? How is that harming them in any way? It makes no sense to me. It just puts that view again of the white people trying to keep you down. Like, that is a cultural thing here. It's like they don't want you to succeed. That's the talk that I believe will be happening. You know, here they are trying to act like we're all equals, but why am I getting pulled over and arrested over something that this next person would have got a warning over? Things like that or, I don't know, just those types of things. I mean, I am light complected. I don't go through 29 as much as my son that is very dark. He has a lot of more not so great interactions. Growing up in Utah too, like when I was younger, I'd go to the mall; I'd be followed. It was the weirdest thing. Like, I would be followed all the time. Even as an adult, one time me and my two friends went to Park City, and she always shares this story because it just tripped her out. They're both white, and she always tells everybody, “Teresa was dressed better than both of us, like we didn't understand.” But we were in a candle store, and the worker kept following me and I was like, “What the hell?” I thought, “Maybe I'm trippin’.” I text my friend that was on the other side of the store. I said, “Tell this lady to help you find something. Let's see if she's watching me,” or something like that. 'Cause I was like, “I don't want to think that, and I'm hoping I'm wrong.” No, I wasn't wrong. She wouldn't take her eyes off of me. She just answered my friend, but kept watching me. I was like, “What the hell? Like, oh my gosh.” That was so, I don't know. Things like that do happen. I'll tell you one of the dumbest things of my, you know, when you have this weird belief that is not logical. I think it must have happened when I was younger, but I used to always think, “Once I'm not poor, when I have money, these things won't happen.” But yeah, I want to say it was maybe three years ago, when I do have money; I'm definitely not poor. I'm at Dick's Sporting Goods and the lady asked me—I put my jacket on the counter and I got my wallet out to pay for these 30 bunch of expensive ass shoes. It's like, I'm here to pay, and she looked at my coat and she goes, “Do you have anything in your coat?” I said, “No.” She starts ringing me up again, and then she looked at my coat again, and then she grabbed my coat and started searching my coat. I was like, “I didn't steal anything.” In my brain I kept thinking, “Say something that it's not that way.” But no, instead she validated it. She said, “Oh, you'd be surprised.” In that moment, once you realize that it is like that, I will tell you, I thank God that I respond the way I do now. Now I go into shock, like you just feel the blood go through your entire body and I freeze. I freeze and I don't really do anything or say anything, and I pay and I leave. Then, you know, I'm crying in the car. But when I was younger, without my traumas healed, when I was treated that way, I was freaking out, yelling at people, swearing at them, fighting people, things of that nature. Which, that is not going to be good for my career if that happened. I don't know, it just sucks, that part does suck. Even now in this business, it's actually kind of funny. I've had a client, a lady that was a potential client, refuse to see me because I'm Mexican. In the lobby saying, “Is she Mexican? If she's Mexican, I don't want to see her.” I was like, “What the hell?” I've had that, and then I have clients, there's microaggressions. One lady asked me if I used to be in a gang. There's nothing about me that looks like that. I was like, “Oh, yeah homie, how did you know?” Like, it's just weird, weird things that people say sometimes. Just hard things 31 sometimes, and you’re a therapist, you got to just listen in a way. I don't know, I can't be fighting people here in sessions. LR” Okay. Before I ask the last two questions, is there any story or memory you'd like to share? TS: Yes, one more that's huge. Growing up, like living with my grandma and stuff. My grandma was a CNA, like the nurse aide that goes and helps take care of old people and stuff like that. She used to go to people's houses and take care of old people. But I remember we'd be driving around, and she would always talk crap about people that lived in East Layton, like above 89 or that area. “Those assholes…” It was like those people were awful people. Looking at it now, like I see my grandma went and worked for these people, and they’d pay her pennies, basically. They lived in rich, beautiful homes and they didn't treat her good. But she needed the money, so it was kind of like that. That was her defenses and talking crap on them. But I wouldn't jump on board with that. I just, my brain back then when I was little, I'd always think, “Well, how the hell did they get up here? What are they doing for work?” My mind would go to all of that. My grandma, she passed away a few years ago, so this happened after my grandma passed away. But anyways, I bought a beautiful house above 89 to show, like, we can get here. I don't want the house anymore, like it was just a representative of not being in the shelter anymore. That, “Grandma, we can get here too. We don't have to hate these people or judge them because they're mean to us. We can get here.” That's a huge reason I bought that house. That 32 was one of the biggest moments of my life, getting to buy that house. I don't know, like, how do you go from homeless over and over and over again and not having money, to buying that house? It's a miracle. And guess what? This is the funniest plot twist, because me and Carol are friends on Facebook and all that. She's seen pictures of my house and stuff like that. She was like, “Oh my gosh, I think we have the exact same house.” I said, “No way.” So, I took video footage of my entire house, and she did too. We shared it, and it's literally the same damn house, just different color of cabinets and stuff. I was like, “Holy crap.” That is like the weirdest coincidence ever to me, right? So, that's a big moment. That was one of the biggest moments of my life, buying that house. LR: Why is community important? TS: For that support and acceptance and love. For people to be able to show up for one another, and we're not alone in the world. To help each other succeed, because without that, maybe we'll get there, I don't know. But I know for me, like the community that I got to have with Aspire, they helped me grow like no other. Their unconditional love and acceptance is enormous. I've never felt or seen that, and they really became like a family that I didn't have. Like, I could go and cry to them any time and they'd always be there. I don't know how else to explain anything. I wasn't afraid. It was like I finally was not afraid to ask the questions and be vulnerable, and that's where the growth comes in, is when you can be open. 33 One of the big reasons of me hiring and having employees is, number one, I want these therapists to have a loving and supportive and caring environment. They do have that, and that is the one thing that I am so proud of is the culture here at my agency. Every employee will tell you they all feel loved and supported all the time. It's not like a business, money business. Obviously, I’ve got to have that side taken care of too. But my therapists, they're all well taken care of and they know they're supported, that they can ask me anything. They can be vulnerable with me, and sometimes they tell me things and I'm like, “Oh damn, maybe I shouldn't have known that.” I don't know, like, “Oh my gosh.” But they don't know that I think those thoughts. I just show them support and I'm here for them. To know I'm that trusted, especially with some of the things they tell me, is so beautiful. That means that they are going to be better therapists for it, because they can be open and honest and reach out for help. I've been able to show them that it's safe to do so, and we need that. We need that support as therapists. We can't do it on our own. We need that when we're having a hard time, or second guessing our judgment, or when our first client actually completes suicide, things like that we need each other for. I don't threaten to fire them every week like I was. I don't yell at them and say they're stupid. None of that happens. Their growth is so beautiful that I get to watch. It's similar to clients, like they come in and they're so scared and nervous and unsure and all this and that. Then in a few months, their confidence is building and I don't know, it's just it's so beautiful to watch that transformation. I love being a part of that. That, to me, is community connection, and love and 34 care. In the world, I know we all don't get that often, so at my work, it needs to be that way. We have to have a good culture here, or it's not worth doing. I could just be a solo provider and I'll be just fine. LR: I'm noticing a connection between the environment that Carol fostered at the Women's Center when you were there, and the environment that you've created. TS: Yes. LR: Is there a direct correlation between that? TS: Absolutely, absolutely. Like I said, with Carol, I could tell her anything. She knew all those awful secrets that I had, and she still loved me and showed up for me all the time. It was amazing. That was the first person to do that, you know, ever. Especially in education or anything like that. I don't know, she really meant a lot. She means a lot. Then we're in the 4th of July parade at Layton City, and it's so funny. We've done it for two years, and every time she's like, she's in the crowd and she's running, “Teresa,” like screaming. I just love that lady, man. She's just like I said, she's a firecracker. I don't know how her husband can ever calm her down. I doubt it. She's an amazing soul. Yeah. I'm grateful for that. LR: Final question: What do you think we as individuals can do to foster relationships and meet the needs of the underserved communities here at Weber? TS: Work really hard on not judging. I think that people underestimate the energy that comes in with that, and people think that they're playing things off, but it ain't. We feel it. It creates that—so it's not just like in our heads that it's unsafe. There's energy there that it isn't safe to be open and vulnerable. It's like, instead of putting yourself on a pedestal and looking down on people, why not just have a 35 better understanding or knowing that you just don't understand what this person's gone through and where they've been. It's okay for us to just be caring and supportive of them regardless. Us being their persecutor does literally nothing in life. It's not our place. You know, like in therapy, that's one of the biggest things is I can't bring that into the room, I can't. I need to just care and support this person. I guess it comes down to this: What's the goal? Is the goal to feel like you have the power, you have control? Or is your purpose really to help people grow? Like, is this for your ego, or is this really for humanity? Because if it's for humanity, you're coming at it from a different perspective. But if it's for your ego, it's because you're above and you're better than, and here you are reaching down to this poor individual. Like, that sucks, that's stupid. LR: Thank you so much for your willingness to share. This has been amazing, and quite phenomenal. Do you have any questions at all, Raegan? RB: No. I loved every bit of this, though. TS: Thank you. Like I said, I'm a baby. I'll tell you one more funny story real quick, if that's okay. LR: Yeah. TS: My daughter, she's an adult now, but when I was started college, she was 12. I will never forget this in my life. We were driving down the street and she goes, “Mom, are you sure you should be a therapist?” I'm like, “Yeah, why?” 36 She goes, “Because like, commercials come on and you cry so easy, and da-da-da.” I was like, “Oh. I never thought of that.” I remember asking [the professor], I raised my hand in class and I was like, “Is it okay if we cry in a session?” He was like, “Well yeah, you're human, but don't make it all about you and be like, oh.” I was like, “Well, yeah, duh.” But it's like so crazy, in sessions—and I've been doing this now, I don't even know, 12 or 13 years—but in sessions I'd say I've maybe cried less than 15 times. That's weird, because I am literally—with employees, when we're talking about deep things, it's just a different brain. I don't know, I’m myself with everybody, but with clients there's a level of protection. I don't know how else to explain that, but it's just funny. Like, with me being a baby and my daughter being concerned, you know, that's just funny. But I think it helps to just be sensitive and emotional in a way. Obviously, not with my, like I don't want to be breaking down and crying and overly emotional with a client. But I think a lot of times people get so hard, and especially with the unresolved trauma. Like I mentioned a while ago, there is no safety in vulnerability. It takes a lot of strength and courage to be vulnerable. I'm grateful that I've developed that instead of the hardened person I used to be. I am literally 100% a different person than I was 20 years ago. 100% different, and 37 I'm so grateful for that. I didn't belong in that life, and I thank God for that, you know? LR: Awesome. 38