Oral History Program Ann Millner Interviewed by Sarah Langsdon 24 March 2021 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Ann Millner Interviewed by Sarah Langsdon 24 March 2021 Copyright © 2025 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Hill/DDO’95 oral history project documents the 1995 and 2005 Base Realignment and Closure (BRAC) process and its impact on Utah. In 1993, rumors started to circulate that Hill Air Force Base and Defense Depot Ogden (DDO) would be closed by the 1995 round of BRAC, causing state officials, local government, and local grassroots lobbying group, Hill/DDO’95, to spring into action to save Utah’s military installations from closure or realignment to other facilities. This project includes interviews from a wide range of players, from congressmen, state officials, members of Hill/DDO’95, and the civilian employees of Hill Air Force Base and (DDO). Their accounts describe the process of fighting for the base, the closure of DDO, the formation of the Utah Defense Alliance (UDA) and Military Installation Development Authority (MIDA) from the Hill/DDO’95 group, and their fight to save Hill Air Force Base all over again in 2005. Also discussed is the importance of the F-35 aircraft and the “Falcon Hill” Enhanced Use Lease project to the prosperity of Hill Air Force Base and military relations in Utah. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Millner, Ann, an oral history by Sarah Langsdon, 24 March 2021, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections and University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Ann Millner. It was conducted on March 24, 2021 at Weber State University Stewart Library and concerns the 1995 Base Realignment and Closure. Millner discusses her role as president of Weber State University during 1995 and the university’s relationship with Hill Air Force Base and the Utah Defense Alliance. Also discussed is Millner’s involvement with Hill/DDO '95 and the transformation of Defense Depot Ogden into Business Depot Ogden. The interviewer is Sarah Langsdon. Also, in the room is Alyssa Kammerman. SL: This is Sarah Langsdon, I'm here interviewing Ann Millner. It is March 24, 2021. We're in the Stewart Library talking to Ann about the Hill/DDO'95. With me on camera is Alyssa Kammerman. Ann, thank you for agreeing to do this. AM: Happy to. SL: My first question is, what was your position at Weber State in 1994? AM: I was the Vice President of University Advancement at that point in time. SL: So what were your job responsibilities? AM: So my job responsibilities included fund-raising, communications, development fundraising, alumni relations, government relations, and also continuing education and community partnerships. SL: How did you become involved with the Hill/DDO'95 group? AM: You know I was chair of the Ogden Weber Chamber Board, at that time, and that was such a key issue for the entire community that the chamber was extremely active in this entire effort and really was the place that a lot of this work got started. 1 SL: Were you representing Weber or the Chamber? AM: Well, you get elected to the Chamber board, so I was elected to the Chamber board and then I had the opportunity to move into officer roles. I guess I was representing both Weber and the Chamber. SL: On that Hill/DDO group? AM: Right. But there were other members including Scott Parkinson and other members of the Chamber board. This was such a core effort that there were lots of people there. SL: So why do you think Weber State felt it was important to have the representative on that Hill/DDO? AM: Well, Hill particularly at that time, was the major employer in the area. It's not just about what is at Hill Air Force Base, it's about what's in the surrounding community with defense contractors around that. It was a center of employment and by far the largest employer in Northern Utah. The strength of this community economically was tied to Hill Air Force Base and all of the work that emanated out of that. But in addition to that, I think we're patriotic in Utah and we want to support our services and we have these unique amenities here. When you think about the Utah Test and Training Range combined with Hill Air Force Base, I mean it's our geography and the assets of this community that make it a place that’s not just for the citizens of Utah, but for the citizens of the nation it just is an important installation. SL: Did you have any particular role in the Hill/DDO'95 group? AM: No, I didn't have any particular role. 2 SL: You just were a member? AM: Yes SL: Do you remember the BRAC Commission visit, they came in December of '94 and then the big one in May of '95? AM: Yes, I do remember those visits. Not to the extent that others will. I remember Weber State's involvement. One of the things that we did was to try to get lots of students and faculty and staff lined up along Harrison Boulevard. When the BRAC commissioners came through, they could see the outpouring of community support and university support. One of the things we tried to make sure that everybody understood was that this institution was focused on making sure we could meet, from an educational standpoint, the needs of Hill Air Force Base and that we were committed as a university to support Hill and its mission. SL: So was Weber involved with the fight for DDO as well? AM: Right, I mean, it was a Hill/DDO effort, it was a combined effort. Everyone was working together to protect our military assets and that in the community, we were supporting them. SL: What was your view, if you can remember, on the night of BRAC visit. AM: Just making sure people understood the assets of the community that we brought to it, the capabilities that Hill had as a base, and the kind of distinctive assets because of the location of Hill Air Force Base in particular. I think that's one of the things that separated Hill Air Force Base from DDO, was the combination of its mission and the assets that we had in the community. The other is the workload was significantly larger. There were a lot more missions at 3 Hill Air Force Base and much less at DDO, so it separated the two through the process. Ultimately Hill was able to subsume some of the logistics functions, or some or most of its functions, that were at DDO. SL: What was your feeling when the closure list finally came out and Hill Air Force Base wasn't on it, but DDO was? AM: Very excited that Hill Air Force Base was not on the list because I knew how much that meant to the community. Sorry that we had a loss at DOD, although there was also great potential through the reuse process by maintaining the anchor of Hill Air Force Base, being able to take a number of the missions from DDO and subsume them at Hill Air Force Base. We were able to maintain much of the workload, but have the opportunity to gain access to a significant piece of property that could be used for redevelopment. You don't often get that kind of opportunity in a community, and the workload difference in the employment base between the two were just significantly different. The number of jobs impacted at DDO was much less than Hill Air Force Base. SL: That makes sense. Yeah. Do you remember, did Weber offer any incentives for DDO employees to come back to school? AM: I don't remember doing that. No, not that I know of, other than our normal outreach activities and making sure we were providing courses at times that people could enroll. That was pre-online course days. So, being able to make sure you had lots of evening classes and they were offered at convenient locations as well as times was extremely important. 4 SL: So, during 2005 BRAC, you were president of Weber State. What was the involvement of Weber during that '05? AM: So ever since the Utah Defense Alliance was formed, Weber State has been actively involved and we have had somebody serving on the Defense Alliance group. Extremely important, knowing that to keep Hill Air Force Base strong, it must be a community-based effort. Part of that effort needs to be educational, making sure we understand what the needs are, and we're able to continue to align our programs in ways that make a difference. SL: Okay. I guess that answers the kind of partnerships that have evolved between Weber State and DDO, or Hill and Weber. AM: Well, there have been a lot of partnerships that developed. Interesting, as the Davis Campus came online, Hill Air Force Base came to us and asked to partner with us on doing training at the Davis campus. It was right off base for them, so it was convenient location. Hill Air Force Base offered certificate-level programs for people who were employed at the base that they needed to get specialized kinds of certifications. I went to many graduation ceremonies with the general, mostly General Sullivan, during his time because he was here for about four years. I worked with a number of the generals over time, from Mark Reynolds and Les Lyle's, and Pat Condon was years earlier than that. A great group of people that represented us well. In part, the WSU Davis was developed to have an educational campus that was close to the defense center of employment. We were also involved with them on the creation of Falcon Hill and focused on how we could help support 5 the development. It's taken a long time to make it happen, but Weber State University now has a building to continue meeting the educational needs right off the base in the Falcon Hill development, which is so important to the continued expansion of the missions of Hill Air Force Base. The original logistics program at Weber State came from the needs of Hill Air Force Base and then started a contract management program for the same reason. We have an engineering program today because of the needs of Hill Air Force Base. That's probably another story, but it was a long-fought. But my feeling was, we really needed to be responsive. They needed more electrical engineers and the state wasn't producing enough. They needed it to be designed in a way that the program was accessible to their employees. It needed to be offered in a way that was flexible to meet their needs. We fought long and hard for that capability, but we were able to get it. You know, there's no way today that we could meet the engineering needs of Hill Air Force Base and the defense contractors and other businesses in the area if we hadn't started the electrical engineering program, followed by mechanical engineering and other programs. So, a significant level of responsiveness to the needs. One of the other things that we did at that time is to launch a state Cluster Acceleration Project. The Cluster Acceleration Project, focused first on aerospace and defense. The state level contracted with some folks to facilitate that for us. We brought the defense contractors, the major aerospace players, Hill Air Force Base and others together and through a number of visits to facilities, interviews, and an inclusive planning process, we were able to design 6 a strategy for accelerating the aerospace cluster here. Much of the strategy related to workforce needs and a number of these needs were identified. It became the jumping-off point for us, saying, “These are our defense employers in the northern part of the state. We have to be responsive to their needs and find a way to meet them.” SL: What do you think the future of Hill Air Force Base is and how has it positioned itself for that future? AM: Hill Air Force base is well-positioned today. That doesn't mean there won't be another BRAC round, but I think the combination of missions that are there, the long-term defense contracts we have now such as, GBSD and F-35, and the delivery on outcomes, have strengthened the capability and the assets of the base. I think it's received that recognition. Doesn't mean it won't get scrutiny if there's another BRAC round, but I believe we're well-positioned. Part of that is a credit to the Utah Defense Alliance for being mindful coming out of the Hill/DDO'95 round. I think people saw that as a pivotal time in the history of Northern Utah and it was essential to save that base. I think that's proven to be true. There was a time that we were dependent on a small number of industries here, but a more diversified base hasn't slowed our commitment to aerospace and defense in Utah. It's a key and pivotal industry that we all feel like makes a difference to the national defense of this country. The commitment of the Utah Defense Alliance to keep the right players in the room, monitoring, connecting in congressional delegations to this effort and really seeing it as an effort that starts from there to 7 the governor and legislature and the state to all the counties and the cities and the industry that's here, all linking arms and making sure that we're able to keep Hill Air Force Base as a strong base that has the ability to deliver for this country. SL: How do you think the community, the surrounding community, can support Hill Air Force Base? AM: The patriotism of this community is the key. It's been interesting for me, since, like everyone else, I've been at home on Zoom a lot. I had no idea that the planes circle over my house so often, maybe that's because I've not been home very much. When you're at home on Zoom all day long, every day, you notice how often the planes fly overhead, whether it's coming in for landings or whether they're just doing training exercises or whatever it is. Many times, I've had to say to folks, "Um sorry, but that's the sound of freedom. It's F-35s." Seeing it as the sound of freedom, “This is our contribution and we're proud to be part of a community that supports our military and our defense missions and this country,” I think is the greatest asset in so many ways that Utah has. I think it's why a lot of military folks come back here to retire. It is why we were just able to finally pass an income tax cut for military retirees. We were one of the few states in the nation that didn't have that, which is a real asset. As we're seeing some of these new missions related to Hill Air Force Base, many jobs require security clearances. To meet the workforce demand, we're going to need to tap into a people that are retired military who either already have security clearances or 8 quickly can get security clearances, because they bring the skills and the clearances that we need to be able to meet the expectations of that workload. SL: So now, as a member of the legislature, how do you continue to stay involved? AM: I stay actively involved with Hill Air Force Base in terms of making sure we're understanding what the job needs are in the area. We've been exploring the additional degree programs needed. I talk to them a lot about stackable credentials. If people could get two-year degrees, such as information systems or computer science at Weber State, and the employers hired them at the associate degree completion, the new employees could contribute to the workload demands and start the security clearance while completing the fouryear degree. By the time they're finished with their four-year degree, they have their security clearances. So really trying to talk about, “Can we structure this in a different way that's still responsive to your needs, but helps us accelerate the security clearance requirement that you have for many of these positions?” A second area is really understanding what the workforce needs are, both whether they're tech college needs in terms of training, or whether they're university degree needs. Every year, we bring everybody together and talk about the current and future workforce needs. By bringing all the players together to plan, including the universities and the tech colleges in northern Utah, we share the load and ensure that we are collectively able to deliver. Then there are the smaller things. For example, I just ran a bill this past session to make it easier for our military families to enroll their children in public education. With technology and online education now, we have the tools to do 9 that easily. I worked with the State Board of Education, the Legislature and our military representatives to draft a bill that had the full support of everyone. Senator Weiler ran a piece of legislation to ensure that if a military spouse was licensed to teach in another state that we would accept that licensure in the state of Utah. We evaluate policy issues like the transferability of licensure because we want to support military families who need more seamless employment transitions. As a result of this work, Utah was one of the top in the nation for rankings on education, education outcomes and licensure transferability that supported military families. That will be important as they evaluate bases in the future. It's just not about the mission, but it's also how you support military personnel. SL: Have you noticed, your fellow legislators from not northern Utah, are they as aware of what Hill Air Force Base does? AM: First of all, Utah is just a patriotic state. I think that's not just a northern Utah thing. I think that's a statewide commitment. Secondly, probably the further you get away, the less you understand the real impact on the state as a whole. But it is a top employer in the state and we all pay attention to our top employers. It's critical that as a state we have an understanding of their needs and we help them expand. We want to help them flourish. It's important and we do that not just for Hill Air Force Base, but I think it's a philosophy in this state. Utah is a state that is certainly pro-business and creates the right atmosphere to help our companies expand and stay. 10 SL: Hypothetical question: what do you think would have happened with Weber and Davis Counties if Hill Air Force Base had closed in '95? AM: Wow. Canning was a big industry in Northern Utah for many years, but after the war, the canneries and the defense industry began to slow. The economy slowed and there were fewer jobs. As a result, business leaders in the community created the Ogden Industrial Development Corporation to spur industry growth in Weber County. This led to the formation of the Weber Industrial Development Park and later the Ogden Industrial Development Park. But all of that was about saying, "We have to mount a major effort to recruit an industry into our community and make sure that we're able to provide jobs in this community.” The business leaders raised over a million dollars in private money, which at that time was a significant amount. They aggressively pursued development and we can see today what happened with Weber Industrial Development Park and Ogden Industrial Development Park; both critical to keeping a strong economy here. But that effort would have had to have been expanded significantly to replace all the jobs that we would have lost if Hill Air Force Base had closed. Unlike DDO, which I think is different. There were fewer jobs. Their big asset there was the land. We have used that to redevelop that property. I had the opportunity to serve on the Defense Reuse Commission that was formed to go through the reuse and development process for DDO, which was extremely important to this community. How we did it, doing it in the right way, was pivotal to building a strong foundation for being able to replace those 11 jobs. I think today we would probably look at that and say that the closure of DDO turned out to be a plus for this community, because we were able to mount a defense reuse effort that saw the potential of that. Ogden city owns it, but they formed a partnership, and because they formed that business partnership, they were able to do it in exactly the right way with the Boyer Company, people that really had development expertise. But doing that same thing at Hill Air Force Base, we'd still be working on it. It would have taken us a long time to ever recover. And even though it's twenty-five years later, I think we'd still be working on recovery. In so many ways, it was important to keep that asset in place. Now we've diversified our economy in this state. We have learned lessons from history about that. It has served us well. If we had not had Hill Air Force Base as one of the anchors and had to figure out how to recover from the loss, I do not think we'd be doing as well as an entire state today. SL: [To Alyssa] Do you have a question? AK: Yes, the closure of DDO and that whole defense reuse program you talked about. I just have a couple more questions with that. AM: Sure. That's a very important part of this story. AK: That's something that I don't really know much about, so I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that process: Were the World War Two buildings an obstacle? Did you have to figure out what to do with that? How did you figure out who to lease out the buildings to? 12 AM: Okay. So, Mike Pavich played a central role leading us through the Defense Reuse initiative and helping us work through the military processes. Mayor Mecham formed a Defense Reuse Commission to work with Mike Pavich. He appointed me to it as a representative of Weber State University, in addition to a number of business leaders in the community. The process began with beginning to secure the property. DOD gave us the property for the most part. Then the second step of it was beginning to develop a plan, “What's our reuse plan going to look like and how do we best do that?” Part of what we had to do was modernize infrastructure because the infrastructure was old. Secondly, it was built for military missions and functions. We had to make sure that we were able to update it, to be able to meet the needs of an industrial park. What buildings could be reused in appropriate ways? Where would we build new buildings to be responsive to businesses? What would we do on the 12th street frontage? Thinking about the front side of that piece of property might be different than what you do back in other parts of the property. Ultimately, some of the ground was also donated for other functions. Ogden Nature Center, the National Guard, Ogden/Weber Tech College and other appropriate properties were transferred to support the community development. It was a comprehensive planning process. As we designed the basic framework, we began to support the infrastructure development, and commitments. Then there was a key development decision related to, “Does Ogden City develop this property itself? Or does it seek a business partner?” The decision was made to go out for RFP's 13 and let's look for a suitable business partner. Because government doesn't always do business development as well as people who are in the business of business development, who have the contact networks to start with, but also know what you need to have in place to be able to attract the businesses into the park. What needs to be there? What are going to be the requisite requirements? We went through their RFP process. The Boyer Company was selected. The good part, it was a Utah firm and it was a partnership. At that point in time, the Defense Reuse Committee went out of the picture and it was turned over to this partnership between Ogden City and the Boyer Company. I'm not sure if I still have this letter or not, but at the time they did that, they came to me and they said, "We, as a part of this agreement, we want to have, if we ever have a disagreement that we can't solve, we need somebody who will be an arbiter, who both sides would trust to be an arbiter. We'd like you to take that role. We hope we never call you because we don't need you." But I agreed to do it and they sent me a letter stating, "This is an appointment and you will have the assets you need if you need attorney support. We would provide you with all of that." I never was called. That's a good thing. I look at what's happening at BDO and it won't be long before we're out of land. People took those buildings, they were in most cases structurally sound, and they were able to renovate and make them good properties. So, you see training facilities out there, you see office facilities in some cases, you see warehousing, you see manufacturing. In addition to that we've built additional facilities. Importantly most of it is leased space. There are a few people early on 14 that did purchase some DDO property, but for the most part, it is leased space, which means you have income, consistent income over time, coming back to reinvest then and to continue development of the park. I think Ogden City is starting to see that income today and is using it to invest in other redevelopment projects in this community in ways that they would never have been possible without this opportunity. AK: Does Ogden City offer up those leases then? AM: Well, Boyer does all that work. The Boyer Company actually manages that side of it. But it's a partnership and then they conduct the business side of the work that's done. AK: Ok, so Boyer was more than just helping them get started? AM: Oh no, Boyer is a full-fledged partner and they benefit. At the end of the day, the revenue over expenses is split. At least that was the arrangement at the time, because starting off, everybody really had to bring money to the table to invest in the infrastructure. People were looking, first of all, to get paid back for the infrastructure development and the planning and the work that was required. Early on, getting enough industry in there to make it so they turned a profit versus a loss, that took some time. Boyer is a long-term business partner that's willing to make those kinds of investments and be able to see the long-term potential of it. But I think they would all say today that everyone's benefiting from the long-term potential of BDO. AK: You happen to have an estimate of about how much the Business Depot makes for Ogden, do you? 15 AM: I don't. I'm sure Ogden City makes it available in open and public records. AK: Do you happen to know why they decided to call it Business Depot Ogden? AM: Well, I think they wanted to keep the DO, keep some of the names and history. It obviously wasn't defense anymore, but it was going to be a business park. So, I think it was just saying let's give it a nod to the history at the same time acknowledge that we do something different here. AK: Do you happen to know if there were any obstacles involved with turning that into a business park besides having some of the old buildings maybe not being as structurally sound? AM: The infrastructure, that was not insurmountable, it just took planning and work and considering how it needed to be redesigned to meet the needs of a business park. Important, but nothing that good planning along with some early investments in infrastructure development couldn't accomplish. That's part of how, as BDO goes through the process for reuse, the way you get credit is if you do infrastructure development that draws down the DOD financial commitment. At that point in time, they would offset what it would take to redevelop that property in negotiation of the price. AK: I had read in one article for that, from like 1995 that they had found some old vials of like mustard gas and stuff like that in the ground where they were excavating. Do you know if there was a lot they had to do for cleanup? I know, for instance, Hill Air Force Base, the cleanup would have been immense if we had to close it down. 16 AM: Oh yeah, yeah. DDO was more of a logistics base, so it stored things. Hill Air Force Base, on the other hand, they maintain aircraft which is different workload versus just warehousing. You think about cleaning aircraft, painting aircraft, all those kinds of things, there are chemicals involved. Hill Air Force Base is still working on cleanup at the base and is committed to the work. AK: Ok. Thank you. SL: My final question is, what do you say the legacy of BRAC was on Northern Utah? AM: Maintained a critical asset to the growth and economic development of Northern Utah. The collective group of people that organized to deliver on that effort were very focused and they knew that this was a critical asset to Utah. Because of the work they did, they made sure that we still have that asset today. SL: All right. Thank you, Ann, so much. 17