Oral History Program Melba Holt Amy Hansen 03 February 1998 i Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Melba Holt Interviewed by Amy Hansen 03 February 1998 Copyright © 2012 by Weber State University, Stewart Library ii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in Special Collections. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The Weber State College/University Student Projects have been created by students working with several different professors on the Weber State campus. The topics are varied and based on the student's interest or task for a specific assignment. These oral history assignments were created to help Weber State students learn the value and importance of recording public history and to benefit the expansion of the Weber State oral history collections. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Holt, Melba, an oral history by Amy Hansen, 03 February 1998, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Melba Holt. The interview was conducted on February 3, 1998, at the Columbia Ogden Regional Medical Center, by Amy Hansen. Holt discusses her personal experiences throughout her life. AH: Hello my name is Amy Hansen, and I am going to be interviewing Melba Holt. Today's date is February 3, 1998 and it is 9:00 a.m. I am going to be conducting the interview at Columbia Ogden Regional Medical Center in their Senior Friend's department. Melba is the program coordinator for Senior Friends, so that is why I am conducting the interview here. Alright, my name is Amy Hansen, and I am interviewing Melba Holt. What I'm going to start out with first is just, "What is your full name and why were you named it? MH: So you want my maiden name and my married name? AH: Yes, yes. Is it that long? MH: Okay, Melba Rae Sorenson was my maiden name and I've been married twice. My one name is Waddell and Holt, so it would be Melba Rae Sorenson Waddell Holt. AH: Wonderful, and why were you named Melba? MH: I think at the time I was born there was an opera star by the name of Melba. I've heard my mother say this. I have never looked anything up on her, and I should but I never have. But because of this Melba who was an opera star, but I've always thought it was because of Melba toast. 1 AH: That is great. That is wonderful. Were you named after somebody else? Yes you were. Did you have a nickname as you were growing up? MH: I did. I had several, but the one I liked the best was Molly. AH: And why were you called that? MH: I worked for a gentleman here in Ogden by the name of George Critchlow, who ran the Critchley Coffee Shop it was the only fire proof hotel at that time in Ogden. And I worked for him and he'd always called me Molly. I know not why. I had a child at that time with me who was two years of age, Corey. And he'd say, "Molly, get that kid something to eat, he's not going to live on oatmeal and toast, get him a steak and throw it on that grill." I cooked there and he always called me Molly. He was a wonderful man and he helped us a lot along the way, George Critchlow. AH: That is great. Have you had other nicknames as an adult? MH: Ah, none that have been told to my face. Maybe some behind my back, but I'm not sure. AH: I doubt that. What do your family members call you know? MH: Nanna, most of them. My great grandchildren and grandchildren call me Nanna. My children call me mom. AH: Okay. Where were you born and when? MH: I was born in Silver City, Utah, on September the 27, 1922. It was a desolate town then and it's still a desolate town, as a matter of fact, it is a haunted town now. 2 AH: Wow. Where is it located exactly? MH: It's in the South and it's about um, probably, well now it has been so many years since I've been there, honey. I wouldn't know how far it is from Ogden now, but at one time it would probably be about 200 miles from here. It would be through Lehi, Santa Quinn, Eureka, and then from Eureka on to Silver City. It was a mining town. It had a lot of miners that did a lot of mining for ore and different things in that town. There was only one store there when I was a child. A little mercantile store run by a blind man and his wife. I can remember gypsies coming up to his little place there, and we kids would run and hide in the sage brush because we were afraid of the gypsies. It's a good place to remember. There was an article done not too long ago in the paper about Silver City, Utah, and some of the houses still stand, but it is a ghost town. AH: Does your house still stand? MH: No, no. AH: Not anymore. MH: But the house that I was in at one time still does, and I would love to go see that sometime. AH: And is that in Silver City as well? MH: It is in Silver City, Utah. 3 AH: Wonderful. Do you remember hearing your grandparents describe their lives? And if you did what did they say? Do you have any interesting stories to tell? MH: Well, I can think of several. I know that I had a great, as far as I know you know it's really difficult because I was an only child. And I had a little brother who died when he was just about two hours old and my mother died when she was 36. AH: Oh really? MH: I was thirteen and my father remarried and you know really and truly the stories that I know about my grandparents are some that I heard Daddy quote to other people. I remember him telling me about one, his grandmother— so it would be my great or my great, great grandmother, maybe it was his great grandmother— had arthritis so bad and because arthritis is in our family I was interested in the story, but he said she was such a positive woman that rather to have people come and help her she would crawl to get the things that she needed. AH: Wow. MH: So she had a very strong constitution I guess you would say, and probably very strong knees too. AH: That is amazing to me. MH: And my other grandparents, my mother's grandfather, or father and mother. I remember a lot of things because they had an old phonograph, and it was one of these that had the round records and we would play all these different records that Grandma and 4 Grandpa had. And then we would go out and their house was in Silver City, and there were fields of beautiful flowers, Lady Slippers, and wild Blue Bells, and we would go out and gather these flowers. And then Grandpa would let me ride the old mare. I loved to ride his old horse, and of course he was old, like grandpa was, and he would let us kids ride because the horse was tame and good, and so I remember those things about my grandfather. And then I remember going with him to the mines and watching the pack rats. He would take food so that we children to see these things happen, and he would put the food on the old running board of the old Ford that we had then, the old running board. And he would put food on that running board and he would say to the children, “Now hide back behind this old shack or wherever and watch.” Pretty soon here would come the pack rats, but they would never take the food without leaving something. And this was the lesson that he taught us, you know. Here this pack rat comes and he takes it to his burrow or wherever he goes and hides it, but he brings back a rock. AH: Really? MH: It was so interesting, but the main thing is that as you get a little bit older and you think of these things and you remember that. You know it's so nice to be given things but it's also nice to give something in return, and I remembered that from my grandfather. AH: That is wonderful. That is so great. So I remember you said you didn't really remember your great grandparents but just from what your father had told you. MH: Yes. Ah-huh. AH: Who was the oldest person you can remember in your family as a child? 5 MH: Probably my grandpa. My father's father, Peter Sorenson, who was a carpenter who built his own home. He was a wonderful man, and he lost his wife at about the same time that my daddy lost my mother. And they use to kid each other about who was going to get married first again. AH: How old was your grandfather when she died? MH: You know I think Grandma died after Momma. I was probably about fourteen. Oh, I would have to get out a pencil and paper, honey. But I would imagine that Grandpa at that time was probably around 65 or something like that then, and he did remarry. AH: What did your grandmother die of? MH: Grandmother had pneumonia, she died with pneumonia. And I can remember when she was in the hospital, and all of her children, they had twelve. There were six boys and six girls in my father's family, and I can remember all twelve of them around my grandma's bed and telling her that it was okay and she could go home. She had been so sick. Let’s see, I lost my mother, my mother's twin sister, and 14 of my school buddies in a bus bus and train tragedy, my grandfather, my grandmother, and an uncle, all within 10 months. AH: You are kidding me! MH: No. AH: Was it just a fluke that you weren't on that bus? 6 MH: Well in a way it was and in a way it wasn't. It was the bus that came through Draper. However, it was going to Jordan High School and that is where I went to school, and sometimes if I had a girlfriend or something that said, "Hey, catch the bus and ride with me," and I would, but it was not the Midvale bus which I would have been taking. But when this came over the radio that the bus had been hit by a train, of course my father was working at Sweets Candy Company at that time, he assumed that maybe I had taken that bus. So he was very, very worried and rushed home, someone brought him home, because he rode with people to work and back. So I had the car. So when he got home, I had taken the car and gone over to the accident, which I wish I hadn't done in a way. Oh, the things I saw… AH: I can't even imagine. MH: It was terrible. And you know I think sometimes with all of the things in my life it has— I've blocked a lot. AH: I'm sure you have. MH: I've blocked a lot. When you asked me how old was your grandfather? Of course when you're a child, I was what, by that time maybe fifteen or sixteen. AH: Yeah. You don't want to remember. MH: Well or I don't or I just think that was my Grandpa Peter, he was, you know, he was there. I just don't really… He must have been around 65 because my mother was, see I would have to sit and think about this because Mother was 36 when she died and 7 Daddy was maybe about her age, so Daddy was probably about 37 or 38, so Grandpa would have been 58 or so, and it was probably about when Daddy was 40 and Grandpa was 60 or 62 or so. But they were thinking about remarrying. AH: That is interesting. Do you remember your family discussing world events and politics? MH: Not a lot. However, I did live through the Depression. And you know that's even, being an only child I guess I really got protected from that because my father never lost his job. My father worked at Utah Smoldering Company in Midvale. We had a little house. My mother was a fruit woman, and put up meat and dill pickles, and pickled peppers in the cellar, and apples stored away. And I don't remember the Depression like a lot of my friends have talked about the Depression and that was in what about 1927? AH: Well the stock market crash... MH: Well you see I was not born until 1922, so I'm trying to, see these are the things that I need to go back and check myself, but the Depression lasted through because I can remember and then during the war I can remember having food stamps, but they weren't— AH: Oh really. Were they like tickets? MH: Yeah! Kind of and I can remember that, you know, having to do that. And a meat ration you could only have so much; that was during the war. But before that, in the Depression, I can remember a lot of my friends saying, "Oh it was terrible, my father lost his job." But maybe it was things I've heard because I don't remember ever having to go 8 without clothes, or I can remember things after my mother died that I didn't want to wear because my aunt made me wear petty coats and pantaloons and long stockings, and I can remember that very well, and standing by her old cold stove to get dressed when Uncle Horace was looking, and I didn't like that because Uncle Horace was not a man who was looking at me, he loved me, but I didn't like it anyway. I didn't want that man standing there while I was getting my pantaloons on and things. AH: Oh, I'm sure you wouldn't. MH: But I don't remember of ever having them talk too much about world events except a things that were going on maybe in the church. My father and mother were very religious people. AH: Which church? MH: Latter Day Saints. My father was a bishop, and my mother taught mutual and had the most wonderful mutual girls that you would ever want to meet in your life. Who sort of took me over after Momma died, and I always said you know someday I'll be just like my Momma, and I was a mutual president for 12 years. So even though it was 13 years being with her, it was a wonderful experience with my mother. She loved children. AH: That's amazing. MH: Isn't it? Thanks honey. AH: That is great. What would you consider to be the most important inventions that have been made during your lifetime? It's a hard question. 9 MH: Well there's been so many because I can even remember seeing pictures of Lindbergh's airplane at one time. Probably for me, and I know this might sound funny, but having had a husband, a first husband, who was a railroad worker in graphite greased clothes and scrubbing on a board till my knuckles bled sometimes. I guess it would have to be the washer and drier because even now in my life, you know for the world… No it wouldn't be the washer and drier it would be of course the things we have done with our man on the moon and all the wonderful things that have happened in our world. You know, now we’re talking about of course in some places they have air rail and everything, but we're talking about it here where I live it's going to be wonderful and all the things. You know I can remember going on an old train and then I can remember going on a train that sped away, in my lifetime. For me personally, it was probably the washer and the drier. AH: That is great Melba. That is wonderful. This is a good question. Was there a chore you really hated doing as a child? Or were you just a wonderful child? MH: Well here, again, I loved helping my mother put up fruit and housework seemed to be a chore when I was a child. AH: Was it more of like a duty? Or just something you did? MH: Honey I was never really asked to do anything. I just know that when some days Mother would say, “Come on honey we've got to hurry because we’re going to have company, and we've got to bake a cake, and we've got to get this kitchen mopped!” And you did it. However, I was probably a little spoiled because only having one child there wasn't a lot 10 to do, and Mother never worked so Mother was home. And Monday was wash day, and Tuesday was ironing day, and Wednesday was baking day, and we had days that we did certain things, and Sunday was church day, and you didn't do anything on Sunday except go to church and come home to a wonderful dinner. And just smelling it in that old coal stove, and that roast cooking you know on low, and Mother would put— I'll never forget I'll have to tell you this is so cute. AH: Go ahead. MH: Mother had a roast one day in the oven and she said to my dad, "Now Alden go out and get one more lump of coal because I think we would need to have that, it'll just be right to cook this roast.” And Dad said, "Okay, I will in a minute." Well Mother on the back of the stove had a pot of soup that was cooled, she had it just sat back, she was going to put it in a bowl or something I guess and put it away. I don't know, but anyway, she said, "Well Alden get it now." And my parents didn't quarrel, I don't remember ever hearing them really quarrel. "Just a minute Lucille." "Oh never mind." Out to the coal house she went. AH: I'll get it myself. MH: And she gets the lump of coal, and she comes in, and she lifts the lid off the soup, and puts the coal in the soup. And she said, "Oh no!" And Dad said, "Well it serves you right I would have got it in a minute." That was all that was said, but the coal was in the soup and not in the stove. AH: Not where it should have been, huh? 11 MH: No. She was so cute. I had a darling mother. AH: How is the world now different from what it was like when you were a child? MH: Well it's a lot different darling and it would take all day to talk about that. I can remember just raising my children, and some nights I would get them in bed at 8:00, 8:30 might be the first time because I worked most of my life, a peaceful time, and I'd go for a walk. I couldn't do that know. I'd be frightened to go for a walk in my own neighborhood. However, there were wars at that time too, and they're still going on. There were good people and there were bad people. There were people who cared about each other and people who didn't, but I think there were more people who cared about each other than there are now, and because of the way the world has changed, and it has changed people. I put myself in my grandchildren's place right now, and sometimes I think I wonder what they do have to look forward to. However, both myself and their mother and their mother's and father's I hope have learned that you cannot live in fear. You go about your daily duties and you love the Lord or a higher power that you believe in, and you go about your work and do the very best that you can and in those situations you know my life hasn't changed much because that's kind of what I've always done. And if I go down the street and I see a group of young people coming towards me, some people say, "Boy I'd cross the street." Why? If they were going to harm me they could go across the street too. AH: Right. 12 MH: So I always say, "Good morning, or good afternoon, or how are you?" And I don't think ever once I have not gotten an answer. Maybe some of it’s been kind of cold, but I've gotten an answer. So yes of course the world’s changed. Look at the things we have now, I don't have to worry about my housework because in 25 minutes with my vacuum with this and that and that I can get it done. I don't have to scrub a kitchen. There's a thing now that puts the water on the floor the broom scrubs it for you and then it seeps the water up. So you don't even have to bend over anymore. And look at the things that have happened in our world with ours. And look at Mr. Glen as a matter of fact and he was one of the very first astronauts lived in Midvale. AH: Oh really? MH: Yes, now we've got to look that up. AH: Mr. Glen. MH: But I'm sure. Mr. Glen. The Glen, he's going to go again. Well you see I've lost his name. But anyway, one of our astronauts lived in Midvale. One of the very first men that went in the missile was from Midvale. I'm pretty sure it was Glen. AH: Oh wow. Probably. I wouldn't doubt it. MH: But that's what I'm saying. There have been so many things happen that honey, but really and truly when it's all said and done, you do the best you can each day, you love your brothers and sisters no matter what color or creed they are, and try to help everyone that you can. People tell me that I don't live in the real world. 13 AH: You're amazing to me. MH: But I do live in the real world, at least I think I do. 14