Oral History Program Audrey Sonya Collman Interviewed by Sarah Langsdon 22 November 2013 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Audrey Sonya Collman Interviewed by Sarah Langsdon 22 November 2013 Copyright © 2013 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Business at the Crossroads - Ogden City is a project to collect oral histories related to changes in the Ogden business district since World War II. From the 1870s to World War II, Ogden was a major railroad town, with nine rail systems. With both east-west and north-south rail lines, business and commercial houses flourished as Ogden became a shipping and commerce hub. After World War II, the railroad business declined. Some government agencies and businesses related to the defense industry continued to gravitate to Ogden after the war—including the Internal Revenue Regional Center, the Marquardt Corporation, Boeing Corporation, Volvo-White Truck Corporation, Morton-Thiokol, and several other smaller operations. However, the economy became more service oriented, with small businesses developing that appealed to changing demographics, including the growing Hispanic population. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Collman, Audrey Sonya, an oral history by Sarah Langsdon, 22 November 2013, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Audrey Sonya Collman 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Audrey Sonya Collman, the owner of Li’l Audrey’s Health Spa, conducted by Sarah Langsdon on November 22, 2013. Audrey discusses her experience as a business owner in Ogden, and her beliefs on health, education, and staying young. Also present is Elliot McNally, the videographer. SL: Audrey, why don’t you tell us when and where you were born? AC: I was born on January 12, 1929. I don’t say I’m 84, I say I’m 12 because it’s happy you see, then you feel younger than springtime. You don’t feel old, you feel great with lots of energy because you’re younger than springtime. See, when you think young you’ll stay young. When you think old oh, you don’t want to do that. I don’t teach them to do that. Choose the age you would like to be and if you want to you can use 16, that’s good for each one of thee. Then you’ll feel young again and then you’ll be happy. SL: Where were you born Audrey? AC: I was born in Haverstraw, New York. I was born at home. Born at home, but I’m self-educated, and I’ve been self-educated for as young as I am. SL: Do you have any siblings? AC: I certainly do. I have a brother Henry, I have a brother Philip—I have four brothers, if you want me to go on and on. In Utah, it seems with so many people have so many children. I have eight grandchildren and then I have two or three. In fact I enclosed their picture in my group of things that I have with me today, if you’d like to see some of them. We celebrated one of the children that just turned 2 two and she knows everything, is very bright, all my grandchildren are bright. I made my children work for everything they were going to have. I didn’t let them think they were born with a silver spoon, so to speak. If everybody works for what they get they’re much better people. SL: When you were growing up, did you stay in New York? AC: Yes, we stayed in New York while we were growing up. We came to Utah in 1959. We love it here, we love the people here. Everybody’s helped me, the first year that I was in business, even before that I had people sending me three hundred people at a time. I made friends with everyone. I had a rabbi that taught that you need to be friends with your neighbors and then everybody will be happy forever. They will be happy that way. You don’t need to have war, war doesn’t give you an extended life, it takes away too much life. I didn’t really want to go global at all because we need to have America stay America. SL: What did your father do for a living? AC: My father was a clothes designer, was also in the diamond business. Learned how to do that for many, many, many years. Repetition is always your best teacher as we know, so to Little Audrey’s you really need to go. Rhyme and reason makes you feel great, you know what I’m saying? We want things that make people happy. If it’s all medical, you know, that doesn’t always work. You have to think for yourselves, you have good minds. Women are very brilliant people, women. All of them, and they’ve all been through lots of challenges, but they’ve all learned a lot more by having these challenges. I teach them to have good goals, not only to get in shape, but I teach them to get educated. It’s time 3 for all women to do what they have to do to be educated. If you live in the library you’re self-taught, you see what I’m saying? Like if you know bands, bands are all self-taught they don’t have to take lessons. My friend Cole, who has been in Utah for a long time because he grew up here—he’s my best son. One of my best sons, I favor him. SL: How did you meet your husband? AC: I met him on a blind date and it was fun. It was fun. SL: What did you do on the blind date? AC: Of course we went dancing, because that’s what I like to do every day of my life too. SL: When did you marry your best friend? AC: I married him in, let me think. Well, Celeste is going to be 60 in December, so you can figure that out can’t you? She was born, she was supposed to be born on December 23rd, but she was born on December 8th. SL: So 1949, does that sound about right? AC: 1949, I guess I never think about that. SL: What did your husband do for a living? AC: He was a rocket engineer. He produced 91 patents for Thiokol to begin with, but he didn’t care about that. He was only caring about what he needs to do. I wrote the resumes for both of us, and I had five jobs in a matter of days. I worked for a lot of firms, I did a lot of buying. I was taught how to be a buyer, how to do everything. I taught all of my members how to do these things. I was making 4 them self-educated too that way. There’s nothing wrong with being self-educated, believe me. If you have it in your brain and I have a very good brain. I’ll teach you an exercise; want to try it with me? Do you have time? It only takes a minute. Hold your arms up like this okay now count rhythmically. 1-2-3-4- 5-6-7-8-9 will give you a good memory which you have to repeat it several times a day. You start out with a few reps and then you build up. I don’t make you do things quickly. I have a friend, that all of the women at age forty they have a problem, big problem. They get strokes. I taught them what to do to start all over again, but I did it slowly. I didn’t do what a regular physical therapist would do. I do not believe in doing things that make them scream and holler at the top of their lungs. That doesn’t help anyone. So she was able to walk and talk right after I trained her. She wanted to pay me a lot of money and I said, “I don’t want your money. I just want you to be well.” SL: How did you and your husband end up coming to Utah? AC: Oh, we came to Utah because we love Utah and we wanted to live here. The people are so wonderful to me here, the people in New York were always wonderful to me, wherever I’ve gone they’ve been wonderful to me, but I’m wonderful to them and so they reciprocate. Is that the right word? SL: Yes. AC: Pardon me. I’ll say pardonne-moi. SL: Did he end up working at Thiokol? 5 AC: Yes, he worked at Thiokol as a rocket engineer. He produced the power for the nautilus submarine that was good, when my son was seventeen he did a heart/lung machine of his own design. Doctor DeBakey wanted him to come to California and join his staff. University of Utah wanted him to join the staff so he could work in the burn center too. SL: Why did you decide to open Little Audrey’s? AC: Oh, I wanted to help all the women and young ladies, and I also helped the men for free. If their wives were going to come here I would help them anyway. I taught them how to eat correctly, I taught them how to exercise just like what we’re doing now, to retain our memories. (She puts her left arm over her head). Then you start it on the other arm like so then you do it right down to the side of your leg here and you count 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 and that’s all you need at this time, right here. SL: So your first location was in Roy? AC: I had so many people from the very beginning. The rancher who helped me, they all loved me, what can I say? That’s the language for me. Sometimes it’s embarrassing for me because everybody treated me like a queen, and my husband is like a king and my family, we’re all part of the spa. Everybody knew my family real well. I was going to put a building up on top so I could watch my children more carefully because mothers always feel, when they’re away from the family, they’re neglecting their children. I teach everyone, well when you come here that you must not let the children walk outside on the road. They need to be up on the sidewalk and not get hit by a car that’s following them. 6 SL: What kind of classes? AC: Oh, I teach side board classes here and then for the one’s that need to use a flat board, I have them just take the legs off the ones over there, so flat. If you have excess loveliness, that’s too hard on thee, and you don’t need to do exercise violently. Violently in one area makes you violently in other areas. We want to have no violence and we don’t want to have anybody that’s injured here, and we have a good reputation for that. We had some people that wanted to do push-ups on a windowsill. I said, “What do you want to do, go through the glass?” When you have excess loveliness, you have that weight that will push you through. You don’t want that to happen to thee, so you must not do exercise violently. There’s no reason or rhyme. You must have a good time when you’re here, you must have laughter. We have plenty of equipment, we have more equipment than I would use. My goodness the Kellogg Company did so much for me. SL: Your first bikes came from Kellogg’s. AC: Oh yes, that company, yeah. They did everything for me, everything. Any company I’ve ever dealt with, they do everything for me. I can show you letters that have been sent to me constantly, “Audrey, hurry back and sell diamonds too.” I did that for a while, but then I decided this is a place for women, and if you won’t have enough people here you don’t want to do that. I gave thousands of earrings out free to anyone that came here whether they were guests or what. I did everything to help them in every way I could. Whatever they wanted to learn I taught them how to do it. I said, “So many things that I can pass out to you.” I don’t do anything that’s extreme that people want me to do. I pay them to come 7 there. When people send me people, if they send me five people, I will give them a hundred dollar bill from me. That will bring me more people than anything else. SL: So when did you open the location here in Ogden? AC: In 1971. SL: Why this building, the old Dee School? AC: It’s a historical location. That’s why all the women like to come here, it’s history and I believe in history. I was always class historian as long as I can remember. Long forever and a day. SL: What has it been like being a business woman in Ogden? AC: It’s just wonderful, everybody’s been so wonderful to me. They were sending me members after members. I say, “My goodness gracious where do you expect me to be? Have four Little Audrey’s?” Well, all my girls that work for me or anyone that works for me knows that there isn’t anything I wouldn’t do for them. I paid the girl, I gave her a check the very same day. I don’t want you to do anything that will hurt your body. I don’t want you to do the old army exercise of jumping. Eventually it catches up to thee. I used to swim in the ocean, I’d jump off the box at the Elk’s Club, and then they just started doing everything for me. They used to think that I was; I don’t know, they thought I was the man that did the gentleman, I always like to say gentleman. I still use that word, it’s from the east coast. Here you say—you don’t say gentlemen you say what? Guys, and some girls are called guys. I say don’t call girls guys, they’re feminine. I say they have a bustle muscle, I don’t say they have a butt. 8 SL: How many children do you have Audrey? AC: I have five children, all born in a year’s time. One boy after another. Five in five years. SL: What do all your kids do? AC: My kids are all professional. They’re doctors, they’re lawyers. They do everything, everything. They sing at Carnegie Hall, my family. Lots of relatives sing more because they have more time. Friends do too, they sing there. My children are very well educated, really. Mark graduated in 1983 at the University of Utah, Dwight gave all of his money away and he made a lot of money, I’ll tell you—more money than most people will ever see ever in a lifetime. More than other kinds of professions. Money won’t always make you happy, you see. You just have to learn how to budget like me. I like to do my things myself. I had to put this on my hands so that I could hold these up. SL: Your rings? AC: Joel thought that I should have everything for me. One day he walked in with a baby grand piano, to put in our house. So I’ve been playing it, not as well as I did when I was a child because I practiced with a man that was what do you call it? They used, what did they use years ago in the war when they wanted to make you disabled? Well he used to place my hands on the piano keys and that’s how he taught me. I learned very quickly because it’s in our history. So I played the piano all the time. SL: Yes, so you talked about the Elks. The Elks, the Does, Chamber of Commerce. Have you been involved in anything like that? 9 AC: I’m not involved with the Chamber of Commerce, no I’m not because you have to pay them quite a bit of money to do that. I save my money to be able to use it here, but that’s the type of person I happen to be. I want to give as much as I can, and I’m always willing to help anyone whether they’re rich or poor. I think they should work for everything they get and more. SL: What do you remember about downtown Ogden in its heyday? AC: I loved it! We had a beautiful little restaurant there. It was kind of like an ice cream parlor but they served you good foods. We did a lot of cooking of our own, but I met a person who went from one place to another, one after another. My friends always say you need to go here and you need to go there. I can eat the same food all the time, it doesn’t bother me. I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables and I eat a lot of protein. More protein than most people need, but if you’re going to work out you need more protein. SL: What was your favorite store downtown? AC: Oh, they were all my favorite stores. SL: Did you like going to J.C. Penny’s? AC: I love J.C. Penny’s. That’s where my lingerie was purchased and now I’m embarrassed because it doesn’t fit me. I don’t like to say this but I will say this if you want me too. My boobs, we use that word instead of breasts because it makes you have laughter and have fun. So we use that boob word. I hate to tell you these don’t help my boobs at all. I’m covering my eyes because I don’t like to talk about that. SL: Did you go to Fred M. Nye’s? 10 AC: Oh Fred M. Nye’s are my neighbors today. They’re right across the street from me. They wanted us to retire because they’re retired. We aren’t retiring, we don’t have any plan of retiring, neither one of us have a plan. I don’t want to retire, what for? I have the best place to be right here. SL: What about Keeley’s? AC: Oh, you mean Keeley’s the restaurant, the ice cream parlor? Oh, that was a favorite place to go. They were so neat, they were great. They gave us more than ice cream, that kind of thing. They gave us food too. SL: What about Woolworth’s? AC: Woolworth’s was a favorite place for me. I bought my threads there that I use for stitching. I bought a lot of things from Woolworths. Lots and lots. SL: You talked about that your blind date with your husband was dancing. Did you ever go dancing when you were here? Once you got to Utah? AC: Of course, we’ve been called the dancers of Salt Lake City for years. That’s what they call me. They do and everybody I see on elevators, oh there’s Little Audrey. They used to say I was with what was his name? I have to think a minute. Anyway they always thought that Joel was him and I was somebody else, let me think. I’m so excited I can’t even think straight. I’m so delighted that you wanted to interview me. I’m tickled pink in fact, but I want to wear red and black today so I have some bright colors on. I usually wear bright colored clothes when I’m here. I have red on and yellow and all kinds of colors. Colors: the secret to having fun. In Facebook I’m done in black and white and that doesn’t compliment me. I like 11 being in there regardless and I feel grateful that they wanted to put me in there. I opened the book and I looked at my—I said, “No color?” I like to be very colorful. SL: Where did you used to go dancing? Can you remember some of the places you used to go dancing? AC: Of course. Yeah, we danced in Salt Lake because we used to go to a famous hotel back everywhere. All the hotels invited me to go there. We used to go bowling in the middle of the night too. Then we went dancing before we were through. We were always dancing. My husband and I danced, and danced, and danced. SL: Did you ever dance at the Berthana that was here in Ogden? AC: That was a long time ago. Many, many years ago. But I went to a lot of places in Ogden and Roy. I didn’t go to a lot of places where they had a lot of drinking because I’m not a drinker, I’m a thinker. SL: Did you go to ZCMI when it was here? AC: It was one of my favorite places. They had everything ready for me all the time. Everything right on time. Stop and Shop, I shopped there regularly because they had all younger people in spring time working for them. They gave them jobs that really helped me. SL: So how often did you go to the Tiffin Room in ZCMI? AC: Oh, I went to the Tiffin Room regularly. Yes they always had the food I liked to eat. They always had it all ready for me. I just had to pick up the phone and call them. They were right here immediately. SL: Was there a salad named after you at the Tiffin Room? 12 AC: Yeah, they always had salads for me. SL: But did they name one after you? AC: Well, I know that Smith’s called their food made especially for Little Audrey’s. SL: But on the menu at the Tiffin Room, was there a Little Audrey’s salad? AC: Well they served more than the salad. They served protein, protein, protein. I have to have a lot of protein. Everyone should have more protein. They don’t think about protein. I eat a lot of fish. I’m a fishy person, fishing for a new shape? Time to go to Little Audrey’s. Fishing for want to become well educated? Come to Little Audrey’s. I will tell you what to do to get that education. SL: Did you have a favorite restaurant in Ogden? Like one that Joel would take you too? AC: Oh Joel would take me everywhere if I wanted him too. He had me going to every place. Maggie and her wonderful boyfriend, eventually she’ll be married to him. That’s fine for me they’re a wonderful couple. No better than they can be. SL: Did you used to do floats in the parades? AC: I was in every parade that was ever there. We were always there. We went to Brigham, we went everywhere. SL: Did you have actual floats in the parade? AC: Of course we had floats. In fact, I got the stores to donate white western boots, and white outfits. They all donated those things to me so I could use them instead of having to wear the gowns in the parade and be all perspired they could wear something that was as happy as happiest could be. Everybody in the eastern part of the country wants to go here. They come from all over, 13 everywhere, they’re all over. It’s wonderful to have so many friends and neighbors. SL: Was it mostly the Pioneer Days parade? AC: All the different parades. Whatever the parades were I was there. SL: Were you on a float or did you have some of the girls that worked for you on the float? AC: I just told them what they needed to do. I explained to them what they were going to do, step by step, so they’d know what to do. They didn’t have to do that themselves. Oriental restaurant in Roy did everything for me. I made all the signs and they exchanged food for me. I wanted to buy their son a bike so he could have one at home, they wouldn’t permit me to do that. They wouldn’t let me do it. I said, “Come on, I let your son come in during time to ride the bike in here.” Then they didn’t mind it at all that time, not at all. Now they would all like to have dates, so on Saturday night I’m thinking about having dances. Seriously. SL: What do you want your legacy to be in Ogden? AC: I want Little Audrey’s to be a legacy. Is there anything wrong with that? SL: There’s nothing wrong with that. AC: This is a historical spot. People wanted me to go to Israel, I said, “I’m not going there. I’ll have to lie down in a bus and they’ll shoot me.” So many people have done that, but I don’t have anything against anyone. I don’t hold grudges, not me. I like to have fun with each and every one of thee. SL: So you want people to remember you for Little Audrey’s? 14 AC: Sure. Little Audrey’s Health Spa USA. They all tell me it’s famous today and I’m very humble. They are all doing everything for me, everyone. John Forsey in Salt Lake gave me land, almost free land. In business he was very good to me. Everybody I can think of has been very good to me and I’ve been good to them too. We all try to work as a team. SL: Did you know the Osmonds when they lived here? AC: Yeah, I knew the Osmonds and I told them not to have those ridiculous things on TV. They need to take care of the children in school. They’ll have so many people using the Osmond family, you see what I’m saying? There’s so much they could offer the young children of today and yesterday. Why are you wasting your time with that? I never wanted my girls to be on posters when they were having their babies because I didn’t think that was appropriate. It’s supposed to be a reverent time of your life. No need to sit up on the TV with your legs apart and your tummy. It needs to be reverent. SL: So did you know Len Allen? AC: Of course I knew him. He was a very good friend of mine. Wonderful person, did everything great. He worked hard, worked very hard always. He was always willing to do everything for me. The people that had, I’m trying to think for just a minute. Not a minute I don’t want to take up all your time, but I want to. I want to take up all your time. I want you to learn to rhythm and you’ll have fun with us. You’ll have fun all the time then. If you have good goals that’s the important thing. Whatever it is that interests thee, if you have good goals. 15 We need to have America be America again. My father was always willing to pay taxes as soon as he arrived here. He said, “I will pay my taxes regularly,” and then one day I heard that I wasn’t paying my taxes. I said, “Go check my records, you don’t know what you’re talking about.” You need to learn that they were trying to take it away and I didn’t want it taken away. My parking lot was where my members and all my guests that came—it was for everyone. I didn’t enroll the men, I taught them what to do in the process. As long as their wives or daughters were enrolled I would help them forever. I don’t need their money. I don’t want to take the money that they need to help their family. I will give them extra time to pay, but that’s Audrey. Yeah, give them all the time they need. I tell the young lady that works for me that she doesn’t need to be my slave, she needs to be like my daughter. Sometimes I have a very loud voice if I can’t get things done the way I want them to be done. They all try working their very best and they do their very best. I don’t want any people going and doing push-ups on my windowsills. They’ll fly through the air. I used to do walking the rope, I did that up in the sky so to speak, but I always made sure I had a net under me. Don’t want to take chances with your life, no. I’ll be putting some new equipment coming in that teaches you how to play a sport. It will have a net around it so nobody gets hurt. The first tree that we had in the building was foxwood pink, hot pink! Pink pink. It was all—you know what happens when you have to clean that up? It’s everywhere. It was here, it was there, it was everywhere. It’s so hard to clean up. That was hard to clean up. 16 EM: What did your parents do in New York? AC: My father was born a natural born clothes designer. He could take your fur coat and take the pelts apart. Come back the next week, you have a new jacket or whatever they wanted. EM: So he was a tailor. Did he own his own store? AC: Yes, he owned his own store. We didn’t call it a store though, it was like his home. Just like we have here. It’s what he did too. My mother wanted to be a doctor just like I wanted to be a doctor. My kids were young and I couldn’t accept that. I critiqued his sculpture he did. So he asked me to come to his closet with me. I said, “I beg your pardon doctor? You want me to come in the closet?” He said, “I just want you to critique a sculpture I’ve done. I know you’re an artist and we’ll have a lot of fun. I believe in your artwork that you do. I want you to critique this for me.” So I did, so I told him on the right side of your body you’ve done everything right, but on the left side you didn’t do what I would want you to do. I want you to do more like the other side. So he followed my instructions and we had fun. I wished that my mother wasn’t taken out of school at a young age by her sister and made her work as a servant. I didn’t appreciate that at all, not at all. I said, “Why didn’t you teach her to be a jeweler? Why didn’t you teach her, teach her something where she could take care of herself? Why did you do such a thing to your own sister? Why?” My goodness my parents would kerplunk on the spot. That’s what I use to say people died. I say they kerplunked and everybody starts laughing. It’s wonderful. 17 When people are getting ready for a test, I took eleven of them at one time and I brought them into the area here, and I showed them what they could do. They need to get prepared, so I made them laugh all the way through. We had so much fun, we all had fun together. So I was having what do you call it? An MRI myself, I just did it. Didn’t have to but I did it. I made them happy cause I was right with them, helping them get through this. By the time they were going out the door they were ready to go have fun. They weren’t scared anymore, they had laughter in their life. SL: Well Audrey, thank you for letting us come and talk to you. AC: The thing is I answered the questions in the way I thought they should be. I hope you understand why I did that. SL: Thank you so much. AC: I’ve had a wonderful time with you girls, and I hope to see you back.