Oral History Program Kathryn Kammeyer Interviewed by Lorrie Rands and Brian Whitney 11 February 2015 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Kathryn Kammeyer Interviewed by Lorrie Rands and Brian Whitney 11 February 2015 Copyright © 2015 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Immigrants at the Crossroads - Ogden City is a project to collect oral histories, photographs and artifacts related to the immigrant populations that helped shape the cultural and economic climate of Ogden. This project will expand the contributions made by Ogden’s immigrant populations: the Dutch, Italian and Greek immigrants who came to work on the railroad and the Japanese who arrived after World War II from the West Coast and from internment camps. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Kammeyer, Kathryn, an oral history by Lorrie Rands and Brian Whitney, 11 February 2015, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Hendrik (Ed’s father) with his family in Amsterdam Front: Jacob Bouman (stepfather), Rose (half-sister), Sophia (mother) Back: Paul (brother), Hendrik Matthys Kammeyer, Ernest (brother) Center: Sophia van der Reijns (Ed’s mother) and her parents in Holland, before she immigrated Kammeyer family at East Burch Creek farm, 1905 Kammeyer family at East Burch Creek farm, 1905, Hendrik (far left on horse), John and Paul on horses Ogden Bicycle Repair Shop with Harry in doorway, circa 1920 Ed, Harry and Ern in early bike shop Motorcycle event at Kammeyer’s in 1923 with early Harley Davidson’s, Ern is sixth from left Ern, Ed, Harry, Marian and Emma, 1943, while Ed was home on leave before going overseas Ed, standing second from left, with unit on leave in Paris, 1944 Dutch Kammeyer family reunion at North Fork, 1952 Millstream Motel, 1450 Washington Blvd, built in 1938-39 Three brothers at North Fork property Kammeyer’s Sport Store, 1964 Kammeyer Store Trip to Holland with Kathryn and her children and grandson, 2003 1 Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Kathryn Kammeyer, conducted by Lorrie Rands and Brian Whitney on February 11, 2015. The interview concerns Kathryn’s husband, Edward Kammeyer, and his Dutch family. In the 1920s, Ed’s brothers opened a bicycle repair shop, which later became Kammeyer’s Sporting Goods. Kathryn also discusses their other business ventures. Joanne Kammeyer Hatch and Diane Shaw are also present. LR: This is February 11, 2015, we are in the home of Kathryn Kammeyer talking about her husband’s, Edward Kammeyer’s, Dutch parents, their immigration here to Ogden and then just the Ogden/Dutch community in and of itself.1 I’m Lorrie Rands conducting the interview and Brian Whitney will be helping as well. Alright thank you for allowing us back into your home and to be able to just sit here and talk to you about this. It’s awesome for us. So let’s just kind of jump right in to the questions and we’ll start with when did Edward’s parents immigrate to Ogden? KK: His father, Hendrik Matthys Kammeyer (Kammeijer), came in 1889. The mother, Sophia Wilhelmina van der Reyns Kammeyer came in 1893. She came from Groningen, Netherlands, he came from Amsterdam. I don’t know how they met, but probably here.2 JKH: Because they were living in Dutch Town, a part of Ogden. LR: And where—do you know exactly where Dutch Town was? 1 In Dutch, the letter y becomes ij. Thus, Kammeyer was written Kammeijer. Also the mother, Sophia van der Reyns, her name was spelled van der Reijn. It had had some misspellings including van der Reinst. 2 Edward’s father, Hendrik Matthijs Kammeyer (1870), came here to Ogden, Utah, in 1893 from Amsterdam, Netherlands. His mother, Sophia Wilhelmina van der Reijns (1871), arrived in 1893 from Groningen, Netherlands. Hendrik and Sophia could have known each other in Amsterdam because we have individual pictures of each taken in Amsterdam. But we have always assumed they met in “Dutch Town,” a part of Ogden. 2 JKH: Basically it was below Washington Boulevard around 30th maybe to 34th Street. KK: Child’s Avenue. JKH: Even below Grant also. LR: Okay that’s consistent with what I’ve heard. JKH: Okay, oh I need to say, “Goede dag.” LR: What does that mean? JKH: Dutch for “good day.” LR: Good day. JKH: A hello, type greeting. BW: The Dutch don’t typically like to associate that with guten tag, the German derivative. JKH: That’s true, there’s a vast difference. BW: But there’s a relationship. JKH: There is a definite relationship. LR: I’m going to take your word for that. JKH: It’s quite a guttural language just like German is. BW: It is. LR: Okay when did his parents date? I know they married here in Utah. They married in Salt Lake, but do you know when they married? KK: 1895. JKH: Salt Lake City Temple. KK: They married in the temple.3 3 They married in the Salt Lake Temple in 1895, just two years after the Temple opened. They did not reside in Salt Lake, they only traveled there to be married. The 1900 Census lists their home at 3264 Stephens Avenue which was 3 LR: And where after they married did they settle? Did they settle down in Ogden or did they stay in Salt Lake? KK: No they never were in Salt Lake, it’s just Ogden. JKH: It’s just where they went to get married. LR: Where did they live in Ogden? KK: Where was their first home? They were on Stephens Avenue weren’t they? JKH: Stephens Avenue. KK: Here, look here for the census. Stephens Avenue, below Wall Avenue. We didn’t know where it was. We had to look it up on the internet. JKH: We did, but it’s still there. Stephens Avenue is between 31st and 32nd below Wall Avenue. That’s where they began their married life.4 LR: So did Stevens Avenue turn into Childs Avenue? KK: No, they’re different ones. LR: Okay, so they’re two separate avenues? JKH: Yes. Stephens Avenue remains as is, Woodland Avenue changed to Childs Avenue.5 part of “Dutch Town.” We assume they were converted to the LDS faith in Holland. All of the children were blessed and baptized in the Church. 4 Hendrik Matthijs Kammeyer and Alida Hendrika Nijburg Family: Johan Matthys Kammeyer (1864), several daughters who died young, Hendrik Matthys Kammeyer (1870), Paulus Johannes Kammeyer (1874), Ernest Kammeyer (1876). Hendrik’s mother, Alida Hendrika Nijburg Kammeyer Bowman, married Jakobus Bouman in Holland after the death of Hendrik’s father (1878) and had one daughter, Jacoba Alida Bowman known as Rose. Alida’s two sons, Ernest and Paulus, plus daughter Rose, and Jacob immigrated in 1890 and lived at 3270 Stephens Avenue. John was married in Holland and all of his children were born in Holland. He and the family made several crossings, the last one in 1906 when they stayed for good. Coenraad Webertus van der Reijns and Maria Timmerman Moorrees Family: Sophia Wilhelmina van der Reijns (1871), Johanna Maria van der Reijns (1886). Sophia’s mother, Maria Timmerman Moorrees van der Reijns and daughter, Johanna Maria van der Reijns immigrated in 1901 to Ogden. 5 Sometime around 1904 the father secured a piece of land in East Burch Creek to be farmed (about 50th and Harrison, or Old Post Road) where a home and barn were built. They moved from the East Burch Creek area when the father built a home at 3339 Woodland Avenue (became Childs Avenue). This house is still there today. As is 4 LR: I get them mixed up. KK: It was Woodland. I don’t know when it changed but originally it was called Woodland. Woodland became Childs Avenue. JKH: But it changed to Childs and it’s about—it’s still there between 32nd and 34th street below Grant. LR: I have 3341 Childs Avenue. JKH: And that was also Woodland. KK: It was 3341. That was their last home. KK: He built a home at 3339 Childs, but then I think in the meantime they moved up to that East Burch Creek home and farm, I always called it, it’s up on Old Post Road somewhere. But they lived there for a time because some of the children were born up there, but then he sold the home at 3339 and built one at 3341 (sometime between 1905-06 and 1908). That was their last home. LR: When was Edward born? KK: May 25, 1908. Harry was the oldest. Harry was born in 1896. The sister, Mary, she later changed her name to Marian, was born in 1898.6 JKH: Yes, 1898. KK: There were seven children, six survived. There were three boys and three girls. Ed was the youngest. their next home the father built, next door at 3341 Woodland Avenue. This was the last family home and was owned free and clear. 6 Children of Hendrik and Sophia: Harry 1896, Mary (Marian) 1898, Ernest 1901 said he was born at 3264 Stephens Avenue, Sjouwiena Emmaline (Emma) 1904 said she was born in East Burch Creek home, Mathilda Wilhelmina (Billie) 1905, Edward 1908. 5 JKH: So we had some aunties named Sjouwiena Emmeline (Emma Lou), great Dutch names. KK: Sjouwiena Emmeline. JKH: Mathilda Wilhelmina (Billie). BW: Those are beautiful names. JKH: Then Edward, “Eddy,” Edward Kammeyer. BW: Do you have an idea how old Hendrik and Sophia were when they came out here to America? KK: Hendrik came here in 1889 from Amsterdam (before Ellis Island was recording immigrants) alone. Sophia came in 1893. BW: Perfect. KK: Hendrik was born in 1870. He died in 1913 at the age of forty-three. LR: So he was nineteen when he came. KK: Yes. BW: And Sophia? KK: The mother was born in 1871, she died in 1909 at thirty-eight. JKH: She came in 1893 alone. Her mother Maria van der Reijns and younger sister Johanna immigrated in 1901 to “Dutch Town.” LR: So she was twenty-two. Do you know, did Edward ever talk about why his parents came here? KK: I would presume the religion if they were married in the temple. LR: Right, that would make sense. JKH: Well actually the one brother of, should we call him— 6 KK: Uncle Paul went back on a mission to Holland. JKH: Yes the brother Paul went back on a mission to Holland in 1897. So we think they must have been pretty true to the LDS faith. KK: He was actually on the same ship that David O. McKay sailed for his mission, the S.S. Belgenland. JKH: In Scotland.7 KK: David O. McKay’s book he mentions Paul Kammeyer was destitute. I mean they went with no money or anything. BW: So David O. McKay mentions Paul Kammeyer in his book? KK: He’s mentioned in his book. BW: In his biography. LR: Wow, small world. BW: So just as an aside, I’m going to be starting to work on David O. McKay’s diaries. JKH: Really? KK: That book he wrote, What-E’re-Thou-Art-Act-Well-Thy-Part, or something and right in the beginning when they were sailing he mentions the name Paul Kammeyer. JKH: He is mentioned. KK: But they took up a collection to give to Paul. BW: That’s really great. 7 Paul Kammeyer (1874), brother to Hendrik Kammeyer (1870), sailed 14 August 1897 on the S.S. Belgenland from New York to Liverpool to serve a mission in Amsterdam. President David O. McKay also was on board going to Scotland to serve a mission. In David O. McKay’s book, “What-E’re-Thou-Art-Act-Well-Thy-Part,” Missionary Diaries of David O. McKay, pages 7-8, he mentioned Paul Kammeyer by name. Paul didn’t have any money and the group of missionaries took up a collection for him. Paul served from 1897-1900. 7 LR: That’s fascinating. BW: So I know that timeline wise here it’s interesting. So they got married in the Salt Lake Temple two years after it was dedicated and opened for use. JKH: Yes, very early. BW: Pretty early in its use, that’s brilliant. JKH: So I would assume they must have been good Mormons. All of the children were blessed and baptized in the church. BW: I know that in Holland at this time though there is some economic upheaval, so there could have been economic resistance. JKH: It could’ve been. KK: Well in the brother Ern’s biography, he says that the missionaries would come to the home and they decided to leave and come to America. They came in 1890. LR: So this is Hendrik’s brother? KK: Yes, the mother and the other two brothers. DS: Hendrik’s brothers, Ernest and Paul. They came home all together at the end of Paul’s mission in Holland. LR: Right, is who we’re talking about now. JHK: Yes. LR: Okay I don’t want to get it confused. JKH: Well it’s confusing. LR: It is, I agree. BW: So his brothers arrived about a year after he did? JKH: Yes, 1890. 8 KK: The older brother, Johan Matthys born in 1864, didn’t come. He had already married in Amsterdam and had a family. BW: They all came out here? JKH: They all came straight here. LR: So it sounds like Hendrik was the oldest then? KK: No, Johan was the oldest. John, well it’s listed as Johan Matthys. LR: So did all of Hendrik’s siblings come to America? JKH: Yes and they all came to Ogden. BW: His parents as well? Hendrik’s parents, or their parents? JKH: No, his father, Hendrik Matthys born in 1829, died in Holland in 1878. BW: So they came out here as adult siblings? JKH: They did. Hendrik’s father was dead, but his mother, Alida Hendrika Nijburg remarried in 1879 to Jacobus Bouman and immigrated in 1890. KK: His mother remarried in Holland, had a daughter. JKH: That’s who this Jacoba is, also known as Rose. BW: Oh okay, that sister. JKH: So the brothers all came, the sister and the mother came and her husband on Henrik’s side. Sophia’s mother Maria and sister Johanna came in 1901. KK: They tended, well I think all the pioneers did, if a child died maybe the next one would get the same name. So it’s a little confusing. BW: That’s true. LR: Well that actually makes sense. All right so Edward’s been born, growing up, can you kind of talk a little bit about the story of how his parents died? 9 KK: The story is that their barn caught fire at Burch Creek, and the mother was running to see what was going on and she was carrying probably Edward in her arms. She was pregnant, but somehow she had a miscarriage. At the time I understand they just packed them to stop the bleeding, but she died of peritonitis (blood poisoning)—it’s what it’s listed as on the death certificate. She died in July 17, 1909 at the age of thirty-nine, and Ed was about fifteen months old when the mother died. The father died in 1913. I don’t know what he died of really. I’ve heard runaway horse, I’ve heard a paralytic stroke, and they took care of him as long as they could. Eventually I guess it was getting too much for Marian and they put him out in Roy, they used to call it the Poor Farm. It’s that home for indigent, he died out in Roy actually. LR: So with both of his parents gone then— KK: Harry was seventeen, Marian was fifteen, but their home was paid for. The father had entrusted some money to an attorney which they never got. He absconded with it. JKH: So they were pretty destitute. Let me have you read this that my dad Edward’s brother Ernest, who was older, wrote about Sophia’s death. He wrote, “One afternoon we were picking cherries,” and I assume it was choke cherries at that time of year. KK: Not necessarily, there was an orchard down there. JKH: But by July the cherries are gone, who knows. This is what he recalled. “There were mother and father and three or four of us kids. We noticed some smoke close to where our house was. We also had a big barn there. We thought that the 10 house or barn was on fire. We all run down to the house and when we got there we saw the barn was on fire. Mother ran so hard packing one of the little kids she must have had a heart attack.” He didn’t know that she was pregnant, and we know that she didn’t have a heart attack and died soon after this fire on July 17, 1909. “My brother Ed was just fourteen months old. My father took her death very hard. For the next year or two he stewed and worried so much that he had a paralytic stroke complicated by a couple more strokes. My sister Marian was taking care of the family. Finally it got too big a job for her so Pop, Father, had to be put in the Poor Farm Hospital in Roy where he died about two years later in October of 1913. He was forty-three years old. This left us without a mother and a father.” LR: Now which brother wrote this? JKH: This is my dad’s older brother, Ern. LR: Nice, that he took the time to write that down. So what did they do, these siblings that are without parents with young babies?8 KK: Ern goes on to say they did everything. There weren’t a lot of houses down there at the time because they had a barn in the back and they had chickens. They had a cow and horses, they sold milk, they sold chickens and they raised rabbits. JKH: This is really nice if you want to copy it or I could read it to you. LR: Oh we’d love a copy. A copy would be great. 8 Edward, “Little Eddie,” was only fourteen months old when his mother, Sophia, passed away in 1909 and only five years old when his father, Hendrik, passed away in 1913. 11 JKH: Ern talks about delivering milk, twenty quarts for one dollar. “We had about four or five customers and I would deliver milk every night. I never got to play after school. I would have to dash home from school, clean the barn, feed and water the horses and cow, get kindling wood to start the fire the next morning. Then milk the cow, deliver the milk and maybe I could play after that. Somedays I had to stay out of school. I would hook up the team and go up to the hills and get a load of soil. I would get a $1.25 for a load and sell it. In the fall I would load up the wagon with hubbard squash and sell them for $1.25 a dozen. There was something to do all the time.” KK: They did everything there was. JKH: Harry worked and Marian took care of the house and the family and they managed to get along some way according to Dad. BW: It sounds like they all still went to school though. KK: None of the brothers graduated, they went part time if possible. I think the girls graduated, but Ed didn’t graduate. He went into high school but he didn’t graduate. LR: So they did whatever they could to survive and stay together? KK: Yes, they did. They raised rabbits, they eventually sold them to the Union Pacific Commissary. JKH: Yes, they had 185 rabbits breeding. They write they got from ten to fifteen small ones a day. BW: Sounds like rabbits. That’s where we get that expression. 12 LR: So why did they, I mean they sound like they’re very industrious, is that why they decided to just start a business? KK: It was Harry that started the business in the barn. He started repairing bicycles part time and I think Ern would help him. Ed was a little younger, he wasn’t able to do that. They started repairing bicycles and I guess it got to the point where he had a good business going so they opened a store on Washington Avenue. They made several store moves before they finally moved to where they had the final Kammeyer’s Sports store. The old Brewer Building, Brewer Tire at, let’s see, what’s the address? 318 24th? JKH: That’s the last store. KK: They made several moves. They were on 24th street at one time, I think it was 355 24th.9 9 About 1920 in the barn behind their home at 3341 Childs Avenue, Harry began repairing bicycles and selling second-hand bicycles. Ernest remembers Harry managed to find an old bike that was for sale, it didn’t have any air tires on it. It had a garden hose with wire through it to hold it on. “I was very happy with this and I delivered papers on it for a long time. It was a lot better than riding the horse and a lot faster.” About 1921 Harry moved the shop to 2550 Washington Avenue in the basement of the Sidney Stevens Building, then to 2452 Washington Avenue. Harry took over the Proudfit Bicycle Repair Shop at 2367 Hudson Avenue (Kiesel Avenue). Ogden Bicycle Shop, Harry Kammeyer, Proprietor, moved to the former J.G. Read Building at 2367 Hudson Avenue (Kiesel Avenue). The bicycle shop next moved to 2416-2418 Hudson Avenue. The roof leaked and the Peery Estate who owned the property wouldn’t fix it, so they moved to the former Western Union Building at 355 24th Street and were there about four years. In December 1932 a fire broke out one night causing about $3,000.00 in damages, they cleaned up the merchandise and had a big fire sale, sold out completely, and got out of debt. In 1936 they bought the old J. W. Brewer Tire Building at 318 24th Street and remodeled it as Kammeyer’s Sport Store. This is from the Standard-Examiner on 22 September 1936: “Kammeyer’s Sporting Goods Store will move from its present location at 355 24th Street to the Brewer Building, opposite the Berthana building on the same street. Manager Harry Kammeyer said today. The move will become effective in early October. Growth of trade since he opened his business 15 years ago and enlargement of several departments, resulting in congested conditions in his present store were given by Mr. Kammeyer as reasons for the transfer. ‘Our store and repair shop has become so crowded that we are unable to take care of our trade. We have added hundreds of customers during the past few years and enlarged the scope of our store by contracting with some of the leading standard sporting goods firms in the country,’ Kammeyer stated. ‘The new quarters will provide more parking space, 30,000 feet of display and storage space, large front and alley entrances, and a modern repair department,’ said Kammeyer. ‘Several of the departments will be enlarged. The Brewer Building will be remodeled to meet the needs of the store.’ Mr. Kammeyer said arrangements are being made by his company to sponsor a deer hunt, and other sports as it had done in the past.” 13 JKH: Oh this is the beginning of the bicycle repair shop. Harry managed to find an old bike that was for sale, Ernest saying this: “It never had any air tires on it. It had a garden hose with wire through it to hold it on with. I was very happy with this and I delivered on it papers for a long time. It was a lot better than riding the horse and a lot faster.” KK: They delivered papers by horse originally. JKH: But this poor old bike, with a garden hose on it. LR: That’s just—wow. BW: What an image, and remind me where they were living at this point. KK: Down on Childs. JKH: On 3341 Woodland or later Childs. BW: So there were—I mean, you said that it was one of the only homes that was in that area, right? KK: No not the only home, but that was their home. JKH: No there was a lot of Dutch people very close, their homes and barns of the “Dutch Town.” BW: Okay so this was kind of a Dutch community? JKH: Yes. KK: It was the old first ward, known as “Dutch Town.” LR: Do you know if the community kind of helped them at all? KK: Dad mentions the neighbors. The two brothers, they were not much help, they had families of their own. But the neighbors, the Stephens, the Bybees… 14 JKH: Ern states that prior to her death, the mother made Marian promise she would keep the family together and not let us get broken up. “My sister was like a mother to us all and Harry like a father. We all stayed together. I don’t know how we managed, but with the help of all the neighbors Lillian and Sam Stephens, Aldo and Laura Stephens, Jim and Eva Stephens, the Limburg family, the McGregor family, and especially the Bybee family, we did manage to survive. Our neighbors were the ones to help make things go for us.” KK: Dianne Kammeyer Shaw is a granddaughter of Harry’s, the older brother. BW: That was a great story and I really appreciate that there are some names listed there. LR: Right, Bybees. BW: Bybees have come up before. JKH: Oh yes very close to Bybees. In fact the Bybee— KK: The Bybee brothers were, Red Bybee was a good friend of Ed’s and Ern’s. JKH: Yes, but the mom, Mrs. Bybee, really stepped in and helped a lot with the family. BW: Sounds like this was probably their fellow LDS Ward congregational parishioners too. JKH: Yes, I would hope so. KK: They stayed there in that home on 3341 Woodland until each one moved or got married. LR: So what was the name of the store that they opened, the brothers? KK: They called it Ogden Bicycle Shop, the first one. It was Harry that started this store, a bicycle repair shop located in their barn at 3341 Childs Avenue. 15 LR: And what year was that? Do you remember, do you know? JKH: 1920-21. Diane is Harry’s granddaughter. LR: Okay and that’s fine. We can get that later. So obviously we’ve talked a lot about Edward so let’s kind of focus on you, Kathryn, for a minute. When and where were you born? KK: I was born in Cornish, Utah in Cache County. LR: Where’s Cornish? I’ve never even heard of that. KK: Most people haven’t. LR: Oh good, I’m glad I’m not the only one. KK: I was born in 1926. There was an eighteen year age difference between my husband and I. He had been married early in his life and divorced. I had been married. I lost my husband in the war, but I met Ed when he came home from the Army. Ed came home in November of 1945 and I met him in January of 1946 and I married him in May of 1946. JKH: It was love. BW: In Utah we call that a Mormon engagement. JKH: Well that’s true. LR: They still have them. KK: It worked that’s all I can tell you, it worked. JKH: Cornish is up north. It’s closer to Logan, north of Logan. LR: So when you married Edward was he running the store with his brothers by that point? 16 KK: Yes, early on they included Ed as the three brothers. Ed started delivering papers when he was nine years old. At one time Harry worked for the Standard. Harry worked for Reed Brothers. I think they did everything there was to keep the family together and taken care of. 10 BW: This would’ve been through the Great Depression. JKH: Yes, by 1939 they had moved into their last store, 318 24th Street.11 KK: Yes. BW: Is there anything that he’s mentioned in his memoirs about those times? That would be great to have, like how they survived in those times. KK: Ern goes into quite a lot of detail. I’ve got some stories that were written about Harry too. 12 DS: That one that I gave you has a lot of the things that they did. They dug trenches, they trimmed trees and it told how much they made. That was in that thing. 10 Joanne writes: “My dad, Edward, started working at age nine for the newspaper delivering papers and selling them on the street. He attended Ogden High School but never graduated. His brother Harry’s bike repair shop located at the Woodland address continued to prosper resulting in several moves. Brother Ern, who had been working for the Standard-Examiner, left that job to work at the bike shop. Eddie, about 17, joined them and the three Kammeyer brothers incorporated to be equal partners in 1926.” 11 Brother Ern writes: “We went through the big depression very good. We never laid off any of our employees. We shortened up the hours and kept them all working.” 12 Harry worked at several jobs: trading horses, selling rabbits to the Railroad Commissary, digging trenches, working for a harness repair shop (J.G. Read Brothers) and a tree-topping business in addition to his bicycle repair shop in part of their barn on Woodland Avenue because he was the oldest of six children left orphaned by the death of his Dutch parents. Harry, with his girlfriend, Florence Bitton, went to the Orpheum Theater, a Vaudeville show on the Pantages Circuit. One of the acts was a fortune teller, Madame X. She was blindfolded on stage, while her assistant roamed the audience looking for participants. Near the end of the act, the assistant picked on Harry saying, “Buddy, do you have a question for Madame X?” He was so flustered all he could think of was, “Should I stay in my current trade,” which was tree-trimming with Otis Ferguson, “or start my own business?” Harry had been contemplating moving the bicycle repair shop to downtown Ogden. Madame X replied, “I see a very bright future for starting a new business, change from the past and embrace the future.” The very next day, Harry spoke to Otis and looked for a property in town for his bicycle repair shop and this was the beginning of a bright new future for him and all his family—thanks to Madame X. 17 JKH: This says, “I went to work at the bike shop. By that time, January 1, 1927, we had two employees and we started up more lines. My brother Ed came into the picture, by that time we had incorporated. Harry owned 60% and I owned the balance of the stock. One day I suggested to Harry that we make Ed an equal partner and that we would all share equally. Harry gave Ed some of his shares and I did the same. We agreed that the three of us would always have the same wages, none of us would be boss or disagree on who would do certain jobs. We would be all for one and one for all.” KK: And they did that didn’t they? JKH: Ern writes, “We agreed that anytime we were making decisions or if any differences would come up if two agreed on, the other one would have to be happy and satisfied with the decision. We never argued. We were never angry at one another. There was no jealousy. It was a good working arrangement and we continued to work that way all through our lives.” LR: That’s great. BW: I hope they all three felt that way. KK: They never had difficulties. I don’t remember an argument ever between any of them. As I say they could work all day in the store together and see each other at night. They’d shake hands and embrace. JKH: Like they hadn’t seen each other. They were very close. KK: You can’t believe the love that was with all, even with their sisters. JKH: I suppose they were so close because their parents were gone and they really had to depend on each other from a very young age. 18 LR: One question we’d kind of like to ask is do you think that their Dutch heritage was important to them? Did they try to keep anything or did they even remember anything of their Dutch heritage? KK: I think Harry, I think the older ones did a little bit. Harry more than any of them. DS: One thing that I wrote down was that Harry, my grandpa, always talked about oliebollen. He was always looking for oliebollen. KK: He tried to find the recipe. DS: Never could find it. I finally found a recipe online, but I haven’t tried it. LR: What is oliebollen? BW: It’s like a doughnut. JKH: It’s wonderful, it translates “oily ball.” DS: They said that they probably brought it from the old country and it probably was the predecessor of doughnuts. BW: I know somebody out here who makes it every year. JKH: Really? We need to have some. Diane and I went to Holland, oh two years ago, and we looked up their home in Amsterdam and by just sheer luck there was a little sidewalk cart and they were selling oliebollen. So of course we had one, they were fabulous. KK: Did you have one? JKH: Of course. Yes they’re all dipped and fried and then they’re put in the powdered sugar which is sucked in and you immediately cough, cough, cough. LR: So they’re kind of like beignets? JKH: Kind of, but they’re round. 19 DS: They were always proud of their Dutch heritage. They always were. They made us feel proud of it. BW: So we’ve got some food that they kind of retained some recipes of or at least had an affection for. What about any of the holiday celebrations? I know that Dutch holiday celebrations aren’t that different than American, but they did have Sinterklaas Day for instance. JKH: They did have Sinterklaas.13 Although they were so poor I don’t know how much they were able to do. Although they do recall, now I might be wrong, just a stocking with an orange in it. BW: Yes, that’s a Dutch thing. JKH: Maybe it would’ve been a shoe. BW: A little tangerine, it’s a wooden clog with a tangerine. KK: We were always making hot chocolate too. JKH: Yes, love hot chocolate. DS: We have some wooden shoes, but I don’t know if they were Grandma’s parents and brought. Did you ever end up with shoes? KK: Nope. JKH: No. KK: I didn’t see any. DS: Just more decorative. BW: But it’s a connection. 13 Sinterklaas Day is celebrated in Holland about December 5th, but being poor, Ed only remembers a stocking with an orange in the toe. 20 LR: So did the next generation, like with your children did you try to continue any of that Dutch heritage? JKH: Yes, we have traveled back to Holland many times. KK: Ed didn’t know much about it. He was too little to remember. JKH: Well I believe the sister, Marian, and I might be wrong, but I recall her saying that they had a lot of lace curtains and on the cupboards they had the lace that came down over the cupboards in the old house on Woodland. Did they ever continue that? No. DS: I don’t know as immigrants how, I’ve never heard how the Dutch were treated. I’ve never heard, you know they were like some of the other groups who immigrated. KK: I don’t think the parents spoke English when they first came either. JKH: No, according to the 1900 census they didn’t speak English, but I guess they gradually learned. BW: So from the family that we’ve spoken, it kind of depends on where you were as to if you received any sort of intolerance. DS: If you’re in that Dutch community you probably felt safe. BW: Sure, when you know there was a Dutch church service that was offered for the Dutch community, I think that if you were a Latter-day Saint then you probably received less discrimination because you were part of the major part of society. JKH: Oh I think so. A lot of the funeral services were conducted once in Dutch and again in English. LR: Okay interesting. 21 BW: That’s a good fact, tidbit to have. DS: Do you think after the parents passed away that they attended church that much? KK: I have no idea.14 DS: Or were they just trying to survive? JKH: I don’t know, but I heard Dad say once they asked him to go on a church mission. KK: But he didn’t have the money and felt he had too many family responsibilities to go. DS: But they didn’t have enough money to send him. KK: I think they must have gone to church some. JKH: I think so, some. BW: Didn’t you mention that one of them did go back to Holland for a mission? That was his uncle. LR: That was Paul the uncle. KK: Also, my grandson, Todd Douglas Kammeyer, went back on a mission. JKH: It just so happened he got the call to Holland, the Belgium Netherlands mission, 1995-1997. KK: Yeah, he went to Holland. JKH: Which was nice and he was able to find where these old homes were there which we’ll give you some pictures of. Several of them in Amsterdam. BW: We don’t happen to have a picture of the old home they lived in here do we? 14 All of the children were blessed and baptized in the LDS Church. 22 JKH: Yes. KK: We do. DS: I had a picture. JKH: We have a picture of the one. I think it’s down on Childs but you think it’s up on the farm, but we do. DS: Oh, mine’s the one on Childs. JKH: With horses and the whole family out there and they look very Dutch. BW: Well that’s great. KK: It’s in one of the other books, Joanne. LR: So was it before Edward went into the military or after that they started kind of expanding the business and opening up others, like the Furniture Company, you know fronting the money for that. Was it before Edward went into the military or after? KK: Oh I think it was after. DS: Well my dad, Harry’s son, came home about the same time as Ed did. Dad talks about just taking off his uniform and putting on the apron and went right to work at Kammeyer’s Sports Store. He didn’t stay home. KK: That sounds about right. DS: So that was 1945 and I just thought it was the store on 24th street at that time, but I might be wrong. KK: This is the place up on Old Post Road. DS: See, I don’t know that. 23 JKH: During this time Harry was also active in selling horses. He was quite a horse trainer and it said he always had a—many times there was a new horse there every other day. DS: There’s a story about Harry duping an old, brutish horse trader and bully. Harry had a horse he wanted to trade for, plus five dollars. Finally Harry traded and the next day the horse died. The trader had to use the five dollars to have the horse buried, teaching him a good lesson. He always loved horses, in fact one time he had a cutter team. KK: He had some racehorses, too. DS: My sister inherited those genes, I didn’t. KK: This is one of the places in Amsterdam they lived. My grandson, when he was on his mission over there, found the home. He went back to visit. JKH: There’s a funny story when they were young and raising rabbits. A customer called up and needed a rabbit and evidently that day they were out of rabbits. Now we can’t substantiate this, but anyway they didn’t want to— KK: Lose the customer. JKH: Lose the customer, so apparently Dad, Eddie, said they went out and they found a cat. Anyway they skinned this cat, but the body didn’t look exactly the same as a rabbit, but they just said it was a special rabbit. They gave it to the customer, this skinned cat and they said that was the best rabbit they’d ever had. A customer for life. LR: That’s probably the only rabbit they had that ever tasted like that too. JKH: Probably. Must be true, it stuck in Dad’s mind. 24 LR: So these brothers were really industrious, they started a bike shop that turns into a sporting goods store. JKH: The bike shop developed into a motorcycle agency for Indian and also the first Harley Davidson. LR: Then what did the businesses evolve into? What other businesses did they— KK: They sold everything in that store. They sold boats, they had a camera department, they sold Boy Scout equipment and uniforms, Remington and Winchester guns, R.C. Allen Business Machines, Royal Typewriters and Team gear.15 DS: They built this motel that’s still there today. It looks scary. JKH: But yes, they had guns. LR: Okay so they sold everything in their store, oh the Mill Stream we talked about this. KK: They built that before the war about 1938. They built the Mill Stream Motel. Ern said he and Harry and their wives were on a trip and they thought, “Oh, I’m paying six dollars a night to sleep.” So they bought this property and there was the Holly Flour Mill there out on 14th and Washington. They tore the mill down and built the Mill Stream Motel. 15 Ern remembered: “After renting at 355 24th Street we thought it was time we should own our building and decided to buy the old Brewer Building at 318 24th Street. We were hesitant, afraid we might lose a lot of business, hard to get people down across the street as everything was real run down and dead on that side of the street. But, we finally did it. Our big problem was how we were going to pay for it. But in three years we saved up and paid each month and we paid it off. We now had more lines or merchandise---a camera dept., a photo finish plant, Boy Scout department, wood working power equipment, more clothing, all kinds of sporting goods, fishing tackle, boats and motors. We planned never to have a dull season; so starting in January, it was a good adding and typewriter season; in March, baseball, track and spring activity; April, motorcycles, boats and motors; then we went right in the fishing season; in September typewriters were very good as school was starting; in October, the hunting season and then to the end of the year we went right into our Christmas business. We had a big toy department. There was never a dull time in our store.” 25 LR: 1938. KK: It was around that time, that [book] probably says when. They built it before the war because they got stuck with the War Housing Authority and people were living there. At that time motels had a little kitchenette with them and some people were there all during the war.16 JKH: And garages which were attached to each unit. KK: They got stuck with the housing bit that they had to leave their tenants in there. Then they built, Ed did, our duplex behind the motel, and Ern built a tall, two story home. So that’s where I lived when I first got married, was in that duplex with Ed. JKH: They started promoting all sorts of sporting events. Harry was quite a boxing promoter. DS: He did like boxing for a while, but then I read in that thing until they lost the 1,000 dollars one night they decided to get out of that business. KK: They called it The Punch Bowl.17 BW: I did quite a bit of newspaper research on boxing in Ogden, it was huge in the 1940s and the 1950s. I’ve come across that term, The Punch Bowl. 16 Harry, Ern and Ed were involved in many different businesses: 1938---they bought the property at 1430-1450 Washington Boulevard (Holly Mills), tore down the mill and two grain elevators and built the Mill Stream Motel (55 units). 1941---with Wayne Butler, Carl Posnein started Interstate Tailoring Mills in a building they built next to the Millstream Motel. They made all types of wool suits, coats and dresses, strictly made to measure for women. When WWII started they had thirty five salesmen on the road and sixty five women working in the factory. 17 Ogden Standard Examiner: Ogden’s newest fistic palace, the “Punchbowl,” will be entirely completed early this week and placed in readiness for the first show, November 20th. Harry Kammeyer, promoter, announced last night. The structure has been entirely renovated and will undoubtedly rank with the best boxing homes of the west. It is the plan of myself and my two brothers, Ernie and Eddie, who are associated with me in this venture, to provide the best bouts obtainable.” We operated it for about nine months and found out it was a tough way to make a living, going into another man’s business. It was a good lesson but we gained experience. 26 DS: Well I think some in that one that I gave you there have some of the names of the fighters that they promoted. Then they had The Big Buck Contest, it was huge. JKH: Oh yes, hunting contests were huge during all those years. DS: They gave a rifle away for I don’t know, the biggest spread, most points. They had all these different things, and a lot of people would bring their deer, I can remember bringing the big truck. JKH: I can too. KK: It was a big scale out in front, they’d weigh them. DS: It was bloody. JKH: Bloody bodies out there. DS: Deer hanging up there to weigh and to measure. JKH: They sponsored fishing contests, tennis matches, softball tournaments, motorcycle hill climbing which would have been in the 1930s to 1940s. DS: Baseball teams. KK: And basketball teams too. JKH: Ern and Evert Brown started the Pine View Yacht Club.18 KK: Ern did. JKH: Harry was in the Wildlife Federation for years. DS: And then community, my dad, son of Harry, was in Kiwanis but I think they were in Eagles or Mayans or something. Harry joined the Lions Club. JKH: Yes and Elks Lodge. DS: You know all of those. About anywhere they could show up I think. 18 Ern and others were instrumental in establishing the Pine View Yacht Club. Ern and Ed were life members. 27 JKH: Dad had hunted a lot before he was drafted. He was a very good shot and he ended up being a sergeant over a group of fellows that were primarily from the East Coast. New Yorkers and they were quite enamored and impressed with him because he was such a good shot. They thought he was a real “cowboy.” He was a sergeant over his platoon, Company A. KK: Well he was with a lot of Eastern people that were smart. JKH: Street smart Italians. KK: Several of them came to visit us. LR: Where was he at during the war? Edward, was he in the European Theatre in Germany? KK: He was in France, Belgium and Austria. He landed on Utah Beach. He was with the first mechanized group that left the United States. He didn’t cross the channel. They sailed straight to Utah Beach from New York and that’s where he landed September of 1944. He was on the front lines for 211 days. He was with the 26th Yankee Division. JKH: 101st Combat engineers in Patton’s 3rd Army. He always said he was in combat all that time, but he never even a caught a cold. LR: That’s positive. BW: Do you know what years he served? KK: He went in in 1942. LR: To 1945. JKH: November of 1945. KK: Well the war ended in August. 28 JKH: May 8, 1945 was the end of hostilities in Europe, or VE Day. LR: Well the entire war ended in August, you’re right, but European conflict ended in May. KK: He’s still in Austria until November of 1945. BW: He landed in France and then he went to Austria? KK: He landed on Utah Beach and then just worked his way through France to Berlin. He was on the Red Ball Express for a while.19 JKH: He went up through France. He did get leave in Paris, liked it. Then they went through France. Then in 1944 in late December when the Germans started the Battle of the Bulge up in Belgium, they were sent there. They had to do a forced march from where they were in France to go up and relieve the troops up towards Belgium, up through Luxembourg, and through up to Bastogne to relieve them. I guess we always think that battle was over, but it really lasted almost until spring, through January, and that they were fighting on the line, and it was some intense fighting. Also because he was in the engineers he was also out in front of the units. KK: They built the roads and bridges before the infantry came up, clearing mines. 19 Joanne writes: “Dad went into the Army in October 1942 and was sent to Fort Warren to the 101st Combat Engineers, 26th Division with Patton’s Third Army. He was with the first mechanized group that sailed from New York and landed on Utah Beach, He was with what he called a “hot Outfit.” They called them the SS American troop. ‘If the Germans (he called them Krauts) had known how few Americans there were, I’m sure they could have kicked the heck out of us. We captured lots of Germans and equipment and lots of the equipment we used. I didn’t ever dream I would get back home again. We met the Russians close to Berlin, We had lots of luck. I guess we captured 200,000 German prisoners in the 211 days on the front line. My division, the 26th Division, had only 16,000 men. I can tell you for that our Father in Heaven heard my prayers and answered them. We lost lots of men and I am sure I was lucky, not a scratch, couldn’t even get a cold.’ Dad said as Sergeant over his company of men, before going into an action these street-smart toughs from New York and Jersey would like him to pray—just because he was the only Mormon.” 29 JKH: Building bridges, pontoon bridges, river crossings, although sometimes they were just called up to be right on the line. Then they were one of the first to cross the Rhine River into Germany. At the end of the war they were just outside of Prague, and Patton definitely wanted to go in but they were ordered not to go in and let the Russians have it. So they didn’t get into Prague. After the war he, I guess there was some sort of point system. When you had so many points you were deemed eligible to come home, but he didn’t have enough points to come home until November of 1945. LR: Which is strange because he saw that much combat. JKH: So anyway he saw, they had to try and get the Germans back running again. So they had to have a lot of the Germans, well I guess they were ex-Nazis, anyway the German civil people get the country running again. So he helped a lot with that and when he was there he met, I believe it was an Austrian Forest Manager. We have a list of all the cities he was in. Anyway he met what would’ve been a forest ranger, keeper, who he became quite good friends with. Oh he went hunting for the European Red and Roe deer. He talked one time about fishing and he said fishing was no good because he didn’t have the right tackle. So he took out a hand grenade and plopped it in the river. It exploded and the dead fishing were good. LR: I like that story. BW: Dutch industry. JKH: Yes. LR: If it works right. 30 JKH: Yes he wrote to his brothers and he said, “Please send me some fishing tackle and a rod,” so he could fish. LR: So was he the only brother that served in the military during the war? JKH: Yes, the brother, Ern and Harry were married with families. BW: He was that right age wasn’t he? KK: Yes, he was thirty-four and single so he was drafted, and the others were married with families. Her dad, Harry’s son Don, was in the war, he was in the Navy. LR: Right, I keep forgetting how much older Harry was than Edward. I have to remember there’s a huge age gap. JKH: There was a twelve year difference. It’s different since Diane and I are the same age. LR: Right and like I said it donned on me when she walked in. Man that’s Harry’s granddaughter. DS: This was, well as he got older but this was him. KK: That’s a good picture. JKH: That is a good picture, yeah. KK: He was a sweetheart. JKH: He really was. KK: He was so kind and sweet. LR: So did the older brothers marry Dutch ladies or did they marry— 31 JKH: Hendrik’s brother Paul married a Dutch woman, but his other brother Ern married an English Immigrant. A lot of the Dutch down there did marry from that group, the Dutch community. LR: Within the community. JKH: So their family married a lot of the Denkers or the Van Limburgs or the Neutebooms. LR: So if you had to sum up, what do you think would be these brothers, these families, the brothers, the legacy of the Kammeyer’s, if you could put it into words? KK: I think their love for one another. BW: It’s more a touchy feely kind of question more than anything else. Your feelings on what kind of a legacy they left behind. KK: I know when I married Ed I saw how close they were and I thought, “I want my family to be just like that,” and they are. I think we’ve all stayed pretty close, but I think they’re very industrious people. I think they—the family worked hard, mine did, and they weren’t afraid to work. JKH: They worked hard. They carefully invested. They lent money to many, many people. They invested in capitalist adventures and they made a lot of money. They really were one of those rags to riches stories. KK: They had two different companies. I started working for them, keeping their books about 1970. They had two companies, Kammeyer’s Motel and Investment Company. They had what they call the 3 K’s. They owned property up in the valley up adjoining the monastery up there. It says in there, all the property they 32 bought. It was usually in forty acre lots. They had another area, what do you call that above Liberty? North Fork? DS: North Fork Park was the area. KK: They had forty acres there. They bought a lot of buildings. DS: Didn’t they own, past where the golf course is up here? They owned that. KK: Yes, where the Golf City is, they owned that whole corner. I know my oldest son, they used to plant lucerne up there. That’s where he learned to drive the truck while picking up the bales of hay. DS: Then in South Ogden we probably all lived within a quarter mile of each other. KK: It was about thirty acres there. Each of them had ten acres, each one of them. JKH: And a barn. KK: That’s where we built our home over on Sunset Lane. DS: Kind of across from the armory there, but all of that there. I think my parents had the first home out there, they built the first one. KK: Not very first. JKH: First of the Kammeyer’s, it was called Kammeyer’s subdivision. DS: Well first of the Kammeyer’s. KK: That’s right and you had the second one? JKH: Anyway they sure owned a lot of things.20 20 In 1941, in partnership with George Herrod, Herrod Furniture Company, housed on the top floor of Kammeyer’s Sports Store. In 1942 they bought fourteen unit apartment building and single home at 5 27th Street; a triplex, corner of 30th Street and Harrison Boulevard; Triplex, 33rd and Washington Boulevard; Triplex, 29th Street and Porter Avenue. In 1946 they established Utah Insurance and Investment Company to handle contracts and noted from the sport store and Herrod’s; built Harman’s Kentucky Fried Chicken Café in Ogden for Pete Harman, Les Rufer was the manager and cook; Established Royal Arts Company, making furniture for Herrod’s and others; bought the Marion Hotel at 35th and Lincoln; Bought the old Browning Arms building at 2455 Kiesel Avenue, remodeled it to house Herrod Furniture Company; bought forty acres in South Ogden, Sold to Golf City; bought forty acres in North 33 LR: Why did they close the Kammeyer business, the sporting goods store? KK: They didn’t close it. When the three brothers retired her dad, Don Kammeyer, Joe Farnsworth, and your uncle, Bob Kammeyer, bought Kammeyer’s. Then Bob decided he didn’t want to do it anymore. Harry, Ern and Ed owned the building there for a long time, but the mall took our building. LR: That’s right. I remember now. JKH: They built the first Kentucky Fried Chicken place here in Ogden. KK: Ern and Ed. LR: And where was that located? Do you remember? JKH: Right next to the Millstream Motel. LR: On Washington? JKH: Yeah. DS: You can still see the wheel that they had there and Colonel Sanders came. JKH: The colonel came. It was so nice to see the colonel. DS: I didn’t get to go, but Mom and Dad got to. BW: A little history on Kentucky Fried Chicken your family might be involved in. It wasn’t doing very well in the South where Colonel Sanders was trying to promote it. Nobody was interested in it. It took off for the first time in Utah. JKH: No kidding? DS: In Salt Lake. JKH: There was the first one in Salt Lake. Fork, sold to LDS Church; bought forty acres on the east side of Burch Creek in South Ogden; bought thirty acres on the west side of Burch Creek in South Ogden; bought 25 acres on North Washington and Harrisville Junction; bought forty five acres east of Huntsville below the Monastery; bought Old Oak Hotel at 2450 Grant Avenue, Government bought it to build the new Federal Building. 34 LR: That was his first successful store. BW: So the follow-up to that might have been here. JKH: Yes it might have been because we remember going to that first store in Salt Lake. KK: Harman, what was his first name? I can’t think of it. Pete. JKH: Les Rufer? Well anyway that’s how—they were very early and you know we had to eat a lot of chicken. DS: Yes after church if we could stand to go to stake conference that was our treat to have lunch. LR: Did you have any more questions? BW: Did they throw any cats in that batch there of Kentucky Fried Chicken? JKH: Might have. BW: No, you’ve asked all the questions that I’ve jotted down in my notes. LR: So just to—is there anything else you guys would like to talk about? Any other stories you’d like to share before we wrap things up?21 21 The year was 1911, poor times for an immigrant family living in “Little Holland” where the Dutch families lived down around Woodland Avenue, Ogden, Utah. Around the kitchen table sat six little Dutch kids. Harry was the oldest aged 15, Mary was 13, Ernest 10, followed by Emmaline 8, Mathilda 7, and at age three years sat “little Eddie.” Big decision was going to be made. Their dad stricken with a stroke had just been taken to the “Poor House Hospital” in Roy to soon die at age forty-three. Mom died two years before from a miscarriage and blood poisoning at thirty-eight. The kids, all alone, had to make a decision, what to do about little Eddie. A well-meaning and well-to-do farmer from Idaho had generously offered to take the three year old and adopt him. Harry solemnly announced it would be a family decision, decided democratically by casting a secret vote on a slip of paper folded and placed in the pressed glass sugar bowl. One by one—six folded slips of paper were placed in the sugar bowl. An X meant to keep little Eddie and always be a family together, whatever the consequences, to raise this little boy as best they could, with Harry as head of the house and Mary, substitute mom. A blank slip of paper, no mark, would let him be adopted, granting him a much gentler life. Votes had been cast. Harry, tears in his eyes, knowing he might be giving his baby brother away, read out the slips of paper. An X, meaning stay, another X, stay, another stay, another stay, and another, and the last, an X, stay. They had all voted to be a family, to stay a family, no matter what. Little Eddie grew up to be a fine man, Edward Kammeyer. He never finished high school, but he went to war. Together with his brothers, Harry and Ern, they started a humble bicycle repair shop that grew into many 35 DS: You know my grandpa he had an accident and I’ve never really heard Harry had an accident when he was younger and he lost his eye. JKH: Do you know what year that was? DS: No. JKH: He was young though. DS: He was young and he always had a glass eye. You know I would never look at him and think, “Oh, you’ve got a glass eye.” KK: You wouldn’t notice. DS: I never saw him take it out. He was devastated because he loved hunting and when he lost that sight he lost his depth perception. One time they were up hunting and I guess he had a monster of a rifle I don’t know what. My dad caught him sitting up there somewhere up in the valley. He’d shot, he was able to shoot this deer, which was like the turning point of him going from a really depressed state about his eye to living life again I guess, that’s the way Dad put it. KK: Well Ed always said he was a good shot even then. DS: Even when he had one eye. KK: Is there anything we haven’t told you? LR: Not that I can think of. We literally went through everything that I wanted to talk about. JKH: They usually insisted on paying cash for everything. businesses including Kammeyer’s Sports Store, and rewarded them with riches, this is a rags-to-riches story. Family was the most important virtue in Eddie’s life and he has passed this on to his own family. Little Eddie was my dad and I will always treasure that old Dutch Sugar Bowl. --Joanne Kammeyer Hatch-- 36 KK: Ed always said he bought his first car on time payments, and said he never would again, and he didn’t. He always paid cash. LR: Which makes sense. BW: That seems to have carried through. One thing that I still marvel at was the original house that they grew up in was owned. That’s unbelievable to me considering from whence they came. Circumstances, how early they died. LR: It shows how industrious his parents were. BW: And frugal. DS: Yes because they would’ve had to before they died. Hendrik was very ambitious, he always had two or three horses, one or two cows, chickens, a pig or two. JKH: This says my father worked the team for the school board mostly around Washington School which would be just above Dutch Town. It was a very dirty job. At nights he and his other brothers would clean out cesspools; it was very dirty. He rented a small orchard on Grant and Franklin, he also worked at the Standard Examiner. He worked hard and kept very busy. My mother and father were very healthy and seemed very contented. It’s just what he remembers. LR: So it was really the death of his wife that was the turning point for him, for Hendrik it sounds like. He lost his wife and… DS: Kind of… JKH: Gave up, well not gave up, was changed by it. LR: That’s a good word, changed. Obviously he taught his children how to survive because of what they accomplished. JKH: Also, he taught at least Harry and the boys how to hunt. 37 DS: So they could find food, and this played a part in their later lives, opening a sports store to sell guns and helped Dad in WWII. LR: I think that this story is amazing. JKH: Well we’re sure proud of all of them.22 KK: I don’t think in this day and age they’d let a family stay together like that. DS: Oh no way. LR: Not like that. DS: Social Services would come in. LR: Before you turn it off, the voice off camera is Diane Shaw, the granddaughter of Harry. 22 The Kammeyer brothers, Harry, Ern and Ed, sons of Dutch immigrants orphaned early by the deaths of both parents, raised themselves to become honest, hardworking men, unassuming, yet a true force in the building of the city of Ogden. They loved each other, depended on each other, and supported each other their entire lives. They quietly lent money to many, helped many others to succeed, while seeking no accolades. They are an original example of the American Dream, from poverty to ultimate financial and moral success. Yet their sense of family and Dutch roots remained entrenched leaving a true heritage for their children and future posterity.