Oral History Program Paula Smith Interviewed by Woodrow Johnson 12 June 2014 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Paula Smith Interviewed by Woodrow Johnson 12 June 2014 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Utah Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum honors men and women whose lives exemplify the independence and resilience of the people who settled Utah, and includes artists, champions, entertainers, musicians, ranchers, writers, and those persons, past and present, who have promoted the Western way of life. Each year, the inductees are interviewed about their lives and experiences living the Western way of life. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Smith, Paula, an oral history by Woodrow Johnson, 12 June 2014, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Paula Smith June 12, 2014 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Paula Smith. The interview was conducted on June 12, 2014, by Woodrow Johnson. Paula talks about her husband, James Smith, and his induction into the Utah Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum. Lorrie Rands is on camera. WJ: So let’s start off with when and where your husband was born. PS: Jim was born in 1945, he was born on VJ Day, August 14th, and his dad was in the service. His mom was living with her parents up in Ogden Valley and he was born in Ogden, but he lived in Ogden Valley for a few years while he was growing up. Then his dad, when he came back from the war, he started selling surplus. He’d buy it from the government and then he’d take it. He’d load it on a truck and he’d go along the road and he’d sell all the surplus that he had. As soon as he sold all the surplus on the truck he would take the truck and sell it, then he would take the bus back and start over again. So he ended up in Ruby Valley, Nevada where they had a ranch. That’s where Jim mostly grew up was up in Ruby Valley, Nevada on their ranch. So they would live out there most of the summer, some years they lived there year round, but they would come back from Ruby Valley and they lived here in Ogden. He would go to school in Ogden, but he spent most of his time growing up in Ruby Valley, Nevada. WJ: What all were they ranching out there? PS: It’s a cattle ranch and they raised hay for the cattle. WJ: Do you remember any stories that your husband may have told you of Ruby Valley? 2 PS: He loved Ruby Valley. He always loved that ranch life and being out there, just cutting hay. Right now I can’t think of anything in particular, but he loved it out there. That was his place to be. He always loved the ranch life and so in later years he bought his own ranch in Idaho. WJ: Continuing with cattle? PS: Yes, yes. WJ: Very good. So would you say that your kids grew up with that kind of ranch life? PS: My kids kind of grew up more with a farm life because we lived up in Ogden Valley and my dad had a farm. The kids all grew up kind of on the farm and helping do the hay and change the pipe while Jim was at Smith and Edward’s every day building Smith and Edward’s to what it is. WJ: So let’s talk about Smith and Edward’s real quick. So it was Jim’s dad that started selling surplus? PS: Right. WJ: How did Jim get into it? PS: Well Jim’s dad, they had Smith and Edward’s. It was up above the viaduct, they had a small store there. Then they bought where they’re at out there. Jim started with a farm implement store right next to Smith and Edward’s and he run that for quite a while. John Deere Implement store and then he got out of that business and just went over and started working in the store, helping manage it and as he got a little bit older and Burt got a little older he mostly took over the daily operation and took care of everything that Smith and Edward’s did. Burt was still 3 buying surplus and bringing it to the store and Jim built the inside of the store bigger and they had a sporting goods and the western department and all of that. WJ: Where’s the name come from, Smith and Edward’s? I get the Smith side of it. PS: When Burt started the store he had a partner, his name was Lawrence Edwards and Burt bought these big buoy tanks which Jim often laughed about because they were all along the side of the building. When Lawrence Edwards saw that Burt had bought these big, buoy tanks he just thought Burt had lost his mind and he didn’t know what they were going to do with them. So he and Burt decided that Burt would buy him out. Jim was working at the store then too and so anyway Burt bought him out, but they left the name Smith and Edward’s so that’s how the Edward’s is still there. WJ: What’d Jim think about the buoy tanks? PS: You know Jim always thought some of the surplus that Burt bought was a little out there, but it seemed like he always had a way to sell it. Jim knew that the buoy tanks were a good thing because the farmers would come and bring them and cut them in half and use them for water. You know they sold a ton of them and they didn’t have any problems getting rid of them. At first they sold them for, I don’t even remember how much they sold them for, but then as the huge pile dwindled down, people were wanting them more and they would sell them for a little bit more and a little bit more. Anyway he came out really well on the buoy tanks. WJ: Sounds like your husband’s a great salesman. PS: He was a good salesman with a big heart. 4 WJ: So I read a little bit about our husband’s activities outside of work. A lot of community support, things like that. Can you expand on some of his opinions and some of the activities that he did? PS: Jim definitely had his opinions, but he had a big heart. He just loved being community involved and seeing things grow. He loved when my kids started rodeoing, he wanted to be involved. He got involved with the Utah High School Rodeo Association. He helped the president and he donated saddles one year. The kids, the bulldoggers, which that’s what my sons do is steer wrestle, and the year that my youngest son was in it they had a four way tie for first. Jim had provided the saddle and they were like, “Oh my gosh, what are we going to do?” Jim just said, “I’ll donate four saddles.” They all won, it’s a four way tie, and you can’t just drop one saddle, so Jim donated four saddles for all of the guys that won. I mean that was just him. He loved to do for the kids. He always said that if you can’t help the youth, who can you help? They’re our future, he always loved helping the youth. He loved helping FFA or anything like that. He would go to the fairs. He would come down here to Weber County Fair when the kids would auction off their animals. He would always either buy the spread or buy the steer and he would go up to Box Elder County and do the same. There was some kids that he would always help up there and down here. He just enjoyed doing that and being part of the community. WJ: So did your children get involved in FFA or 4H as well? PS: They didn’t, they were into rodeo, they mostly did that through high school and college. They all three went to college on rodeo scholarships. They really never 5 got involved in the youth showing or the 4H. Well they all did 4H when they were younger, but they didn’t stay with it after they got rodeoing. WJ: So Jim stayed with it just because? PS: He just loves the kids. If you can help, that was always his saying, if you can help a kid. He liked to help the kids. He was a member of the Ogden chamber and he enjoyed that. He enjoyed going to the meetings and meeting the people and seeing the people. He loved being a part of the Ogden Pioneer Days, he just enjoyed helping. When he got involved they were revamping the rodeo and bringing everything back and he liked being involved in that, helping with the decisions. WJ: What sort of things did he do for the Ogden Pioneer Days? PS: He did whatever they needed him too, but the one thing that he did and kind of loved, and it’s a funny little thing, but it would be so hot and he would bring the water. He would make sure that there was plenty of water there for the cowboys. Under the stands behind the bucking shoots he always had a big cooler that he kept water in so that when the cowboys got done or before they went they would always have a drink of water. We went down one time when they went to decide who was going to be their contractors and Jim helped them decide who was going to be the contractors. They changed because they had a contractor that was here for years and years and years and they wanted to just revamp and up it a little bit. So they changed contractors and that was kind of a major thing because people really got used to having Cotton Rosser here and they changed 6 to Staith Smith and it turned out to be a really good rodeo. He was really proud of that. WJ: So did Jim himself rodeo? PS: Yes, he steer wrestled too. He was steer wrestling when we got married and that’s kind of how I met him, was when he was rodeoing. He did that until he broke his ankle so bad he couldn’t, the doctor told him he wasn’t going to fix it again so he better not do it anymore. So then he had to quit. WJ: Did you yourself rodeo? PS: You know, I never rodeoed. I always rode horses and I did a little barrel racing when I was younger, but I never rodeoed. But I went to a lot of rodeos. WJ: So you just happened to see him while he was rodeoing? PS: I had a friend that knew Jim and we were introduced. LR: Would you describe to me what steer wrestling is? I have no idea so I would really like to know. PS: They call it the big man’s event because they ride a horse and there’s a, they have an assistant which is called a hazer. The hazer makes sure that the steer stays straight. So like the bulldogger or the steer wrestler is on one side and the hazer’s on the other side. They run the steer down the arena, the bulldogger gets off on the steer and flips him over. LR: This is a full steer? A big steer? PS: Yeah. Probably 6… LR: How is that even possible? 7 PS: That’s why they call it the big man event. Although I’ve seen some kind of small guys do it and do it well. LR: Oh my gosh. I’m having a hard time visualizing this. PS: We need to get you tickets to the rodeo. LR: We’ve been talking about that ever since we started doing this. I need to go to a rodeo. PS: You do. I’m going to tell Desarae and them that they need to get you tickets to the rodeo one night so you can see. LR: I think I’m going to take my family so anyway I’m sorry. Thank you for sharing, that’s good to know. I’m going to be in awe at the moment as you continue. WJ: So did he own any business, multiple businesses at a time while he was running Smith and Edward’s? PS: No, he had, in the later years he had our ranch up in Idaho that he and my son Dustin run. Once he started working at Smith and Edward’s he was there 24/7, that was his main thing. WJ: What inspires the collection at Smith and Edward’s? I know that they have their different departments now and it’s now just a surplus. So I’m curious as to how Jim came up with that. PS: Well like I said the store was built around the surplus. I remember when I first met Jim and you went in there and there was kind of a long, it almost reminded me of a car on a train, I mean it was a long, narrow alley that you went down. There was just like surplus everywhere. There was the hats, and the stuff, anything you could wear. He just started kind of there and he started cleaning it 8 all up and then they decided that a natural with the little bit of saddles and tack and stuff like that that they had, the natural with it would be to have a nice boot section and so then they got the boot section and then along with that would be your work clothes and your work boots. So then they started, they got a nice section of car parts and they had a small housewares department. Natural was to make it a little bigger because the wives came and they needed something to look at. So while the guys are going out in the yard or in the surplus section. WJ: I know exactly what you mean. I’ve taken my wife there. PS: Yeah, up front there’s some seats that if you wanted to sit down you could. At more stores you see men sitting and waiting for their wives, but I think at Smith and Edward’s it might be just a little opposite. There’s the wives waiting for their husband because they’re either out in the yard or in the automotive or the sporting goods. WJ: Did Jim take pride in having a store that men wanted to go too? PS: Yes, he did. A lot of the guys out that way call it the Plain City Mall because it’s the Plain City Mall for men. He did, he was glad that the men had a place to go, but he still wanted the women to feel like they had something to do while the guys were there. So now they have a really nice housewares and toys. Jim and I, first had Dustin our youngest, I was like, “Gosh we need toy, I shouldn’t have to go somewhere to buy toys.” So Jim and I, they belonged to a buying group that’s called the Worldwide Buying Group. Jim and I went to their toy show and we were completely green to this and you’d go in there and you’d see all these toys and you’re like okay we may not need toys. But Jim and I started buying toys and 9 it was just a small, we first had a small section of toys and it went over so well that we decided we would buy a few more the next year. It ended up that we have a pretty big selection of toys there. WJ: Very neat. Did it make it easier running Smith and Edward’s to be able to offer more support to community events and things like that because Smith and Edward’s was able to act as a sponsor or was it more Jim on his own? PS: I think it was probably a little of both. Jim liked being involved in the community and some things he did for sponsorship, which was fine. I think he always felt the store could stand on its own and the things that he did that he sponsored he enjoyed sponsoring and he wanted to back the kids or the people that they sponsored. He’s always sponsored the Ogden Rodeo, even before, I mean like years ago when they were in even younger rodeo when Ogden City had it. He even sponsored it way back then. WJ: That’s very neat. Sounds like he’s been involved in a few things. PS: He’s been involved in a lot of things. WJ: Can you name some of the others? Not to put you on the spot here. PS: Let’s see what are some of the other things that he did? I can’t remember. WJ: I’ve got a list here. PS: Oh good. WJ: Hopefully you can explain to us a little bit. What was his involvement with the PRCA? PS: He just had a membership card and he rodeoed with the PRCA. WJ: Looks like he was involved in miss rodeo and boy scouts and… 10 PS: Oh yeah he was a Cub Scout leader. He loved that, he did it for two or three years. It was like, he would just stew about it because once a month when they would have their little thing, he would worry about getting a fun little activity so that the boys would really like scouts and really want to come. He was like, is it the den leader when you’re over the whole little deal? LR: Oh he was the cub master? PS: Yeah. He did that for a while and really seemed to enjoy it. WJ: That’s very neat. So it didn’t matter the age of kids, he was involved? PS: He liked kids. WJ: What did he do for Miss Rodeo America as an ambassador? PS: I think he was just, I’m not sure on that one. I mean we didn’t really do anything, but it’s kind of like there’s I don’t know if it’s like a club. You pay your dues and I’m not exactly sure how that all works. WJ: Let’s see, he’s on the executive board of the Utah High School Rodeo Association. PS: Yeah. WJ: What was he doing on the executive board? PS: Well it was kind of the same thing. He just helped with getting the rodeo put together. Ken Norris at the time was president and he just helped Ken with anything that he could do to help him get the rodeo put together. We went back, both of our boys made it to nationals and we went back. He would attend meetings with Ken and you know just kind of hear what they had to say and he’d help them. He helped them get the stock and steer wrestling steers. 11 WJ: Very good. Let’s see, what’s the one I was just about to look at? Weber County Sheriff’s, the posse. Was he a member of the posse? PS: No. WJ: No? PS: He was a good support of the posse and he liked the guys that were in there. So one year they made him an honorary member and he was really honored for that because he just felt like that was a nice thing that they would do for him. WJ: Very cool. So how did he support the posse in order to receive this honor? PS: He just, you know if they needed anything. I don’t know, he was good to just be there if they needed anything or if they needed a donation. He would always help with the donation for the jamboree and their little queen contest. Jim did lots of things that he didn’t ever expect recognition for or want recognition for. He was the type of person if somebody needed, if he knew someone that needed something he would just help them and not think twice about it. He was just a good person to just help people. He would never pat himself on the back or tell anybody that he did it. We’ve heard lots of stories since he passed away that, “Oh yeah this one time I needed this and I don’t know all of a sudden Jim was there with it.” So he just did things that he could do for people and didn’t expect a lot of recognition. WJ: How do you feel that Jim did with keeping western heritage alive? PS: You know I think just helping the youth that wants to rodeo and keep that group coming up. Keep the kids that are interested in it and not lose a whole generation of kids that don’t know how to rodeo or don’t know how to ride horses. He would 12 support the posse and the 4H’s and any of that that would let the kids ride or be around horses. Then like I said, he liked helping with the rodeo and making sure that part of it was good. WJ: Good. This one’s going to be a hard question, but if you could think of a favorite memory of Jim either at a rodeo or at helping the youth in any number of western heritage activities. Could you think of a favorite memory of Jim doing something like that? PS: I think my favorite memories of Jim with rodeo and stuff is just him taking our kids and going. We’ve got a picture with Jim, it’s in black and white, but he’s sitting on the fence and my son’s sitting behind him and she got both of them. Just the look on his face, you could tell he was really intently watching the kids’ rodeo and he just liked to be around and encourage. Any kid that needed his steer pushed Jim wasn’t above jumping in the shoot and pushing his steer or being down there if they needed a horse saddled. He just loved to be there which took him a long time to get around too because he spent all his time at Smith and Edward’s building the store up. So it’s good memories that he took the kids and went with them and helped them rodeo. WJ: Thank you, that’s awesome. Sounds like Jim’s a really big family man. PS: He is. Smith and Edward’s and his family were the most important thing to him. Then like I said, he loved being in the community and they honored him with, putting him in the miss rodeo America hall of fame. He would’ve been so proud to think that they would do that. You know he just, that’s what he loved. 13 WJ: How do you feel that Jim would react or feel about being inducted into this museum? PS: I think he would be so excited, he would love it. I think he also would be saying well so and so should be in or you know. I know he would love, he would just love being a part of it. He’s proud that they have been working on this museum and getting it together, it’s been a nice thing. WJ: How do you feel about Jim being inducted? PS: I’m glad they’re inducting him. I think it’s great. They’re so kind to do it and I mean they all love Jim and he loves them. It’s been, it’s just been a honor that they all wanted to honor him so much because he liked to do things. He liked to be a part of it so it’s just an honor that they would do that for him. WJ: Do you have any questions? LR: As he was kind of reading this in the car on the way down he mentioned that at the bottom it said the most important word he had was that of being papa, dad, papa and grandpa. I’m just curious, with everything he was involved in he still had time to be with his family. I just wanted to have you elaborate on that a little bit. PS: He loved it when he was able to go with the kids to rodeo, but those little grandkids meant the world to them. He was so proud when my daughter had her first little boy, Quaid. He looks just like Jim and he was so excited to have a little grandkid and he really tried to spend time with the grandkids that he didn’t always have with his kids. His little grandkids just loved him. We had, when he got sick, he had a chair in the bedroom that he could sit in and watch TV. The 14 kids would come in the back door and they still come in and they’ll go, “There’s papa’s chair.” They just loved him. They all called him papa and he just enjoyed them. He enjoyed the grandkids so much. LR: What do you think his biggest or greatest legacy is looking back? PS: I think he would tell you his family. He’s so proud of what they all did and have done. It’s, and then his grandkids, he just loved them you know so I think his legacy would be his family. LR: That’s fantastic. WJ: Thank you. LR: Thank you very much. WJ: Is there anything else you’d like to share about Jim and his life? PS: Not that I can think of. WJ: Understandable, well thank you so much for letting us do this. PS: Oh thank you guys. Thanks for taking your time and coming and doing it. WJ: We’re excited too. We’re excited to get to know the community better and those who really make Ogden what it is. Sounds like Jim’s right up there among the best. PS: He is among the best, but they’re sure a lot of great people that are with the Ogden Pioneer Days and doing the job they do. They’re wonderful, they keep it going and that’s a good thing.