Oral History Program Mary Shaw Drake Interviewed by Lorrie Rands & Tanner Flinders 17 June 2016 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Mary Shaw Drake Interviewed by Lorrie Rands & Tanner Flinders 17 June 2016 Copyright © 2016 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Utah Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum honors men and women whose lives exemplify the independence and resilience of the people who settled Utah, and includes artists, champions, entertainers, musicians, ranchers, writers, and those persons, past and present, who have promoted the Western way of life. Each year, the inductees are interviewed about their lives and experiences living the Western way of life. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Drake, Mary Shaw, an oral history by Lorrie Rands & Tanner Flinders, 17 June 2016, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Mary Shaw Drake June 17, 2016 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Mary Shaw Drake, conducted on June 17, 2016, by Lorrie Rands and Tanner Flinders. Drake discusses her childhood in North Ogden and her experiences as Miss Rodeo America. LR: It is June 17, 2016. We’re in the Union Station Cowboy Heritage Museum with Mary Shaw Drake, conducting an oral history interview. I’m Lorrie Rands and Tanner Flinders is here as well. I’m normally not this laid back, so… MD: I have a hard time believing that but ok. Did you want me to look into the camera? LR: No, you can look at us. Otherwise it feels weird if you’re looking there and we’re trying to have a conversation. I like this to be a conversation, so it feels more natural. Let’s just start out with, when and where you were born. MD: I was born in good old North Ogden, Utah, back in the day. LR: Cause you’re so old. MD: I know. Not yet, but every year you do feel a little bit older. So back in 1976. So… LR: Really, 1976? TF: What year were you born? LR: I was born in 1974. TF: You guys are like the same age MD: Yeah? Where did you go to high school? LR: I went to East High in Salt Lake. MD: Oh. Weber High. 2 TF: You went to Weber? MD: Yeah, you were from Pleasant View. LR: Well you’re freaking me out because you do not look like you’re two years younger than me. MD: That’s awesome. Then again you don’t really look like you’re that old. So it’s nice that we look young. LR: It makes me feel good. I’m just saying. MD: There you go. LR: So you were born in North Ogden, remind me of the date, not the year, the date. MD: I was actually born in Ogden, but raised in North Ogden my entire life. I was born at McKay-Dee but then grew up in North Ogden. My birthdate is in December, a day after Christmas and yes I get the birthday and Christmas gift combined often. LR: Do you have siblings? MD: I do. I have four sisters and one little brother. I’m the oldest. LR: Poor little brother. MD: He’s pretty cool though. He has taken a lot from his sisters but he is really strong and definitely taller than all of us. LR: What does your mother do, what did your mother do? MD: My mother raised six children and was heavily involved in the community plus she has a teaching degree as well. She taught kindergarten when she was first married and then once you have six kids it’s a full time job. I believe if she were to be paid for raising six kids she’d be a millionaire by now. 3 LR: That is a full time job in and of itself. So you’re born in North Ogden… when did you start riding, where did this love of riding come from? MD: I grew up, honestly, looking and daydreaming in the sky, watching clouds. Every cloud that I saw I would make a horse image out of it. I would also ask, since I was three, every night for a horse. I did finally get a horse, in junior high. Our first horses were Arabians, which were a little bit scary in the rodeo world because Arabians are pretty high-spirited and for a novice horse rider it was an interesting experience, to say the least. LR: So, let’s talk about the junior posse from the beginning. MD: Junior posse, from the top. I am very honored and humbled to be inducted this year, but specifically for the tender mercy of also being inducted with Loni Thompson’s dad, Shorty, and their family because Loni was my posse leader growing up. The amazing thing is, I didn’t grow up with horses and to accomplish goals in the rodeo world without horses at a young age is pretty uncommon. I didn’t receive my first horse until junior high, eighth grade, and my first horse was an Arabian, which in the rodeo world is pretty much taboo because they are high strung and very difficult to deal with. With Loni being my posse leader it was such a blessing. She was there for us as children and watched us grow throughout the years. Junior Posse is a wonderful avenue for any child who wants to learn how to ride. Members compete in events such as barrel racing, keyhole, pole bending, and I believe that’s it, that I can remember, at least that’s what I competed in in junior posse. There are still wonderful “salt of the earth” people who continue the Junior Posse program, especially in North Ogden. I know Dale 4 and Julie Anderson are extremely dedicated to helping the next generation of youth develop these wonderful habits. Loni and her sweet family, they are just near and dear to my heart. My first rodeo queen contest was on an Arabian, I had acid washed denim jeans, which back in the day we thought we were cool, really though not so much. I had a purple cotton shirt and a straw hat that I did not even wear on top of my head, I actually wore it so my bangs could show and I had my boots tucked in my pants. I specifically remember going to the queen contest there at Shady Lane arena, in Pleasant View, and her mom, Jo, helping to untuck my pants out of my gray tall eel skin boots and she say “Oh honey, here, let me help you.” I thought she was crazy because I thought I looked stylish. As you can see from other rodeo queens you don’t really wear your pants tucked in your boots during the competition, unless it’s perhaps something more stylish but back then it wasn’t cool. I’m just very grateful for the influence they’ve had on my life. Truly Loni helped teach me how to ride and she was so patient but sometimes Loni would lose her patience. I just love her, she’s near and dear to my heart. LR: So she’s the reason that you started being involved in that? MD: She was an avenue that allowed for that. Growing up I had always gone to the Ogden Pioneer Days Rodeo and wanted to ride and have a horse. Ever since I was three years old I would ask every night if I could have a horse and then thankfully in junior high I was finally able to. I would lay in the grass and look up at the clouds and make horses out of every cloud that I saw hoping one day I could have a horse. My parents tried everything first before a real horse, I had 5 over 120 My Little Ponies by the time I was in sixth grade, and they were hoping that would suffice but evidently not. LR: It’s fascinating, you could actually say that Shorty Thompson started this, he was the beginning of Loni, everything. MD: Everything is intertwined. It’s amazing to see how the world comes full circle. LR: I just think it’s kind of cool, the whole full circle. MD: Full circle, and you never know the ripple effect truly. Shorty teaches Loni everything and Loni is amazing and she had her horse named Flash and her daughter Laura was in junior posse with me. Through these friendships and these wonderful, humble, amazing, funny people and her service I was able to develop my talents and hopefully bless other people’s lives. I am grateful for those who were patient with me and my family that allowed me to get horses and support me in that aspect. LR: Would you go to their arena on their property? MD: You know what, we went sometimes to their arena on her property. However there is a public one on Shady Lane that we would use often for all of the Junior Posse festivities. LR: I don’t know Pleasant View. MD: That’s alright. It’s bigger and there’s some soccer fields and it’s a park, it’s a designated public arena and park and often times we would go to Loni’s house as well. Never a dull moment over there, at her house, that’s for sure. LR: You talked about some of the events, keyhole and pole bending. I have no idea what those are. 6 MD: I would be happy to explain those. Keyhole and pole bending are more junior posse and high school rodeo events. The pole bending event is not in the professional leagues. The WPRA, which is the Women’s Professional Rodeo Association, has a variety of events. But in the PRCA the only sanctioned event is barrel racing and so that is why you are primarily only familiar with that. Pole bending are six poles lined up, they’re PVC pipes, and you’re weaving in and out. Keyhole, it’s basically a circle with two parallel lines on the outside and the idea is to go in, slide, stop, and turn your horse around and come back out without stepping on the powder outline that has been placed on the ground. Junior Posse gives wonderful avenues for you to be able to work with your horse and different techniques and mobility. LR: Did any of your other siblings follow in this? MD: To some extent. My siblings, they are all unique individuals and have their own talents and things they wanted to develop, and I’m so grateful that they were able to do that. My three sisters, Ashlee, Lesley, and Diana all, at some point in time were involved with horses. Lesley specifically went on more so with high school rodeo and competed in events. I my sister Diana tried the queening a couple times. Overall they decided that wasn’t their favorite thing, although Lesley did compete through her senior year in High School Rodeo. My sister Ashlee was heavily involved in pageants and very musically talented. Lesley played college basketball, she held the record for seven three-pointers in one game at the high school level for quite a while! Diana did plays, water polo, a variety of things, and debate, she’s wonderful, lots of fun. Then I have another sister, Jordan, who’s 7 very scholastically minded, basically took every A.P. test there was, passed no problem. Just amazing. Then my little brother Kyle, who is just a rock star in my eyes, just graduated from college and is just a lot of fun to be around and he played lacrosse. So as you can see a wide variety of individuals. LR: I know you talked a little bit about this, but besides being involved with the junior posse what really got you into competing? MD: Honestly an innate desire and from being at the Ogden Pioneer Days Rodeo. I remember seeing Shannon Conley who is an amazing horse woman. She would ride so fast on her horse, it was a sorrel horse with a white face, and his name was Baldy. She would sail around that arena so fast and stay glued to the saddle. It was also the kindness from the rodeo queens. As much as people think it is a little corny, but truly as a young child looking up and having some kind of an authoritative figure be kind and extend a smile, really makes a big difference. LR: What’s the difference between rodeo and being in the queen competition? MD: It’s a different event in and of itself, such as bull riding and barrel racing, everything’s different. Rodeo queening, as they call it, in high school is an event and the basics are your judged on personality, appearance, and horsemanship, you have to memorize a speech, know everything from equine knowledge to current events. I mean I could tell you about equine piroplasmosis to what’s going on in the world, to how many teeth the horse has or how many nails are in a horse shoe, a wide range! Plus it is also required to be a representative and spokesperson for the sport of rodeo whether that’s at the high school level or professional level in the PRCA. 8 LR: So were you involved with the queening in high school? MD: Yes. LR: Then that went into… MD: I started riding in junior high, and was a little bit behind the curve, most kids start when they’re three or six. I didn’t start that way, and began in high school rodeo when I was in ninth grade and really enjoyed it, although very intimidating. I had the desire to push myself, to study, to gain more knowledge and improve upon my skills and was fortunate enough my junior year to win the Utah High School Rodeo Queen title and went to nationals and ended up fifth. That was a wonderful experience and then from that point on I won Miss Rodeo Ogden and Lehi and Hooper Tomato Days and then Miss Rodeo Utah and Miss Rodeo America. LR: Forgive me but I still don’t quite know the difference between being involved in a rodeo and being involved in a queen competition. MD: I apologize. Here we go, I’ll give you the run down. LR: This is someone that doesn’t understand any of this. MD: No problem. On the professional level, at the Ogden Pioneer Days Rodeo this year you will see cowboys who are actual members of the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association they go from rodeo to rodeo to compete in whatever their specific event, tie down roping, bull riding, steer wrestling, whatever it may be. In rodeo queening, you don’t compete everywhere, you compete locally. The rodeo queen is selected per rodeo to represent it. So you will have Miss Rodeo Ogden representing Ogden Pioneer Days Rodeo. Then she will compete for Miss Rodeo 9 Utah to represent the state at the national pageant, the Miss Rodeo America Pageant, which is held in Las Vegas in conjunction with the Wrangler National Finals Rodeo to be the representative for the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association. So two separate entities that are intertwined. LR: Ok. I was going to say that, they seem to be very intertwined. So did you do the rodeo side at all? Did you do any of the rodeo events? MD: Not professionally because it requires a lot of time, and that is your full time job. So my focus was more in the queening aspect. I pursued my college degrees and went down the scholastic road, however in high school it’s nice because they are intertwined. I did barrel racing and goat tying and pole bending and break away roping in high school rodeo which was great because for the girls they allow a wide range of events. But it doesn’t continue on professionally. They do have collegiate level as well. LR: Do you have any questions? TF: Sure. I got a couple. I don’t think we got this on film, where did you go to school? MD: I attended Weber High School then Weber State. I received my Associate’s degree in Fashion Merchandising from Weber State. One of my professors was Desiree Cooper Larsen who is a former chairperson of the Ogden Pioneer Days Rodeo and I love Desiree and her father was inducted, I believe, last year. Wonderful man. LR: She was fun. I loved interviewing her. MD: Yes. Oh Des, she is amazing and oddly enough, you spoke earlier about people who were influential in my life, Des and Gena have been amazingly influential in 10 my life. Now Gena is Gena Black, her daughter is the current Miss Rodeo Utah, Cassidy Black! Des and Gena were my directors of the Miss Rodeo Utah Pageant when I was competing. They mentored me and helped me on the rodeo trail to compete for Miss Rodeo America and I owe so much to them. I love them to pieces and I’m grateful for them. Des was the one who actually set me up with my husband currently. Talking about everything coming full circle, such amazing and wonderful memories. Truly when I was in high school, I remember being a junior and saying my prayers at night and just praying that if I ever had the opportunity to be Miss Rodeo America I promised the Lord I would serve because so many great and valiant people have been serving. I hoped that I could make a difference and I hope that I was able to through service, because this title of Rodeo Queen is truly a service oriented position. You’re an ambassador. TF: What are the duties of a rodeo queen? Nice segue. MD: The duties of a rodeo queen. Let’s see, you will be interviewed, have public appearances, lots of public relations, promotions, everything from television to radio and now with social network it’s amazing the different avenues, Instagram, Snapchat, everything just in order to help promote. You are the face the public sees for the rodeo and for the cowboys. Often times the cowboys are too busy competing and perhaps a bull rider doesn’t really want to go out and advertise for the rodeo. So it’s very nice that a rodeo queen can and is selected to help promote and to market rodeo and to bring a new level of awareness to those individuals who perhaps haven’t interfaced with someone in the Western world. 11 LR: Do you think that actually works? Do you feel like you had an impact on the, not the rodeo world, outside of that? MD: Yes, as much as anyone can. It’s amazing to note that an impact upon a person is actually based on an individual connection. I’ve met people in the business world, public world, and you hope that any and every interface and interaction you have leaves a positive impact. And when opportunity arises for the introduction and connection to rodeo, you hope you’re able to make a difference for those individuals. It’s up to each individual to take that awareness on and the actions they proceed to take from there. LR: So the year you were Miss Rodeo America you were very busy. I can only imagine how busy. MD: Very busy. LR: Was it strange the following year? MD: Very much so. Absolutely strange. That’s one thing that I wish, and hopefully at some point in time they change, is that nobody really prepares you for the aftermath. Having my husband in the military it is amazing to see the post transition. While “Rodeo Queening” is made of titles, that focus has been ingrained in such a way of life that I think it’s really nice when people help and come together to prepare girls, that there’s more to life than just your title. Rather using your skills and tasks that you’ve acquired from your own military mission, church mission, or your rodeo mission. There’s some transition so it’s very difficult to adjust and I hope that having been there I can share this knowledge 12 with other people. We all have different challenges that are seen and not seen by the public. LR: How long after your being the queen… MD: Miss Rodeo America. LR: Thank you, did you meet your husband? MD: Let’s see. I was twenty eight when I got married, so probably about seven years. LR: How old were you when you were Miss Rodeo America? MD: I was twenty one when I was Miss Rodeo America. Twenty one and over 100,000 miles that year and thirty five states and numerous rodeos. It was pretty crazy. When I was Miss Rodeo America I actually broke my ankle and I’ve had to have seven surgeries since then. You mentioned what do I want my legacy to be. I’d say a person of integrity and grit because there are so many struggles each of us have. I feel that competition brings out a lot of good in people and sometimes it doesn’t. I know I’ve made mistakes but I hope that people remember me as a person with integrity and kindness and that I really tried to serve and to make a difference in someone’s life. I think that’s the biggest thing we can do and we all have the power within to do so. I still deal with issues with my ankle but it’s how we move on its how we press forward and pay it forward, by giving to others that really makes the biggest difference in our lives! LR: Would you say that having that experience with your ankle during that time that it gave you a better appreciation for what you were doing? MD: Can I plead the fifth on that? Let’s see, it’s been really hard to have had a broken ankle. I haven’t been able to physically really run since I was twenty two. I’ve had 13 seven surgeries, I had an inch cut off one of my bones, it’s literally not there, it’s just floating. Also a broken screw is inside there still. So many horrific things, was it a good experience? I think it was a good experience in the sense that I was able to bless the lives of others and empathize. I was bucked off a horse in Bakersfield, California May 1, 1998. As I was flying through the air, I went to the left, my leg came up on the right, and then snap, a spiral fracture of my tib and fib. I remember thinking, “I’m not getting bucked off. I’m not getting bucked off.” But I was already halfway off, and as I’m getting bucked off I try to hang onto the horse’s mane, my cowboy hat goes flying, and the $25,000 crown goes flying. And I tell you what, I do not know how my ankle came out of those oxbow stirrups, there had to have been angels there. It wasn’t my horse or my saddle, those were stirrups I had never ridden in. When the horse started to buck, I remember laughing at the time, like “Oh I can handle this,” but then my foot slipped, it was jammed up into the stirrup and I went flying and I ended up on my back in the middle of the arena. I just kept thinking, “Don’t cry and I have to get out of here.” I thought the cowboys might be saying, “There’s some queen in the arena holding up the rodeo. Come on.” I didn’t cry, and I did not move because I knew once you’re injured you don’t move, however once I was in the ambulance, it was over and I began to cry. I was thinking to myself, “Why now, why this year?” It was extremely challenging being Miss Rodeo America, going to Canada within three weeks after the injury on crutches. But the moral of this is, those who do have injuries, physical, mental, seen or not seen also have a voice, we all have an opportunity to not let hindrances and 14 injuries stop us. We’re still able to be champions and warriors in our own life by pressing forward to greatness. LR: Thank you. I know that’s not always something fun to talk about. MD: Oh that’s alright. It’s kind of a long story, and the seven surgeries have been a little daunting. Two fusion surgeries, one of which that didn’t take. LR: I can’t even imagine. I know you’ve kind of talked a lot about your memories, but is there a favorite memory that just stands out in your mind right now that you’d like to share? MD: Yes. Since I’m here and especially, in relation to the Ogden Pioneer Days Rodeo coming up, it’s my favorite rodeo of all time and I’m sure the favorite rodeo of many with the mountains in the background. A great memory is of Des and Gena who I mentioned earlier. They flew in the Black Beauty horse, from the movies, for the fashion show at Miss Rodeo Utah, and for me to ride. Now Des and Gena are famous for their fashion shows. They used to do the fashions shows at Miss Rodeo America. One year they had a real tiger and walked it down the ramp with Brandy DeYoung, a former Miss Rodeo America. They’ve brought people in on motorcycles, and all sorts of things. I came out of the giant piñata contraption, for Tanya McKinnon’s, and they had a huge torch, as it was the Olympics in Atlanta that year. All of this is to say, they brought the horse that was in the Black Beauty movie, and I rode him in the hotel at the Ogden Marriott and at the Eccles Conference Center. They brought him up in the elevator. My aunt, who was hard of hearing, was there sitting next to one of my family members. Right before the 15 big moment, she said, "What? They're bringing Mary in on a horse?" Hopefully nobody heard! Then they threw the curtain and I rode him in through the tables and up on stage and it was amazing. Des and Gena had beautiful decorations on the tables, gorgeous white flowers, and come to think of it, I believe Cassidy was in the fashion show as a child that year! So it was just so great. I love Cassidy, she’s a doll. Rex, the trainer made Black Beauty rear up inside the conference center and it was spectacular. A real treat then and the whole week at the rodeo, I was able to ride the horse every night. They also had Bob Tallman, who’s a famous announcer in the world of rodeo, announcing the Ogden Pioneer Days Rodeo that year! It was a real special time. Sometimes you miss the memories, and the camaraderie. Truly it’s not about the stuff and awards, you miss the camaraderie with the people and a sense of togetherness. It’s when you come together and those special moments in life are brief but they are remembered forever by the footprints we leave on each other’s hearts. LR: Do you have any questions? TF: I can. This goes a little bit back, but most of the people we interviewed grew up on horses. MD: Nope. TF: So I was just curious what you thought was the most difficult aspect of learning to ride a horse or be around horses. MD: As I mentioned most kids start when they’re five or six and I started at fourteen-ish, junior high, trying to play catch up was hard, but it almost spurred that 16 determination in me that much more. I would study hours on end to know the book smarts of rodeo and that I couldn’t actually have learned growing up with the horses. It’s about really becoming one with your horse and I’m so grateful for various horse trainers that I’ve had throughout the years and again I mentioned Loni earlier but I’ll mention her again. She would take us on trail rides as a posse group, and I was so grateful for those experiences. It gave me a new opportunity to learn something new that I’d never done before. LR: So, having children yourself, is this something you want your children to be a part of? MD: Absolutely if that’s what they desire. Most importantly though I am willing to let them be them. I feel that is the greatest gift you can have. Myself personally, sometimes in the rodeo realm, trying to model and mimic after certain qualifications to be a rodeo queen you lose a bit of yourself, especially if you don’t have a sure and true foundation. That has been a struggle for me, but something that I’ve come to appreciate. I strive to give a better foundation for my own children so they can be solid with who they are, grow, and become their own beautiful butterflies and fly. And do whatever activities they want. LR: You talked a little bit about what you considered your legacy, but if you look at the entire rodeo community, and the entire western heritage community, and I know it’s not a fair question, but what do you think within this is your legacy? What would you hope it would be? Maybe that’s a better way of looking at it. MD: As cheesy as it is, I hope although I’m getting emotional. (I just love the salt of the earth feeling that you have from these wonderful western way of life people 17 and the intangible love that exists among everyone.) For my legacy I hope that people remember that I was kind, nice, and had integrity; that I was willing to stand up and be there for other individuals. Given I’m not perfect and I’ve made some mistakes, offended some people along the way, although not intentionally. But I hope people know that I love them and truly appreciate each person for the individual they are! With integrity you have to have grit, which is a part of integrity, the word itself, and no matter what life brings, even broken ankles, with occasional faults that they remember I had the grit and determination to overcome and to inspire another individual to soar. They say, “Heroes are remembered, but legends never die.” I hope in somebody’s life that maybe I was a legend who helped buoy them up on a day which was hard for them or I helped somebody believe in themselves and know that they were loved, by myself and by the Lord. I think that’s the most important thing. We’re all different and nobody’s perfect but together we all make a pretty good group. LR: That’s fantastic. Let’s end there.