Oral History Program Michelle King Interviewed by Alyssa Kammerman 26 November 2018 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Michelle King Interviewed by Alyssa Kammerman 26 November 2018 Copyright © 2022 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Beyond Suffrage Project was initiated to examine the impact women have had on northern Utah. Weber State University explored and documented women past and present who have influenced the history of the community, the development of education, and are bringing the area forward for the next generation. The project looked at how the 19th Amendment gave women a voice and representation, and was the catalyst for the way women became involved in the progress of the local area. The project examines the 50 years (1870-1920) before the amendment, the decades to follow and how women are making history today. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: King, Michelle, an oral history by Alyssa Kammerman, 26 November 2018, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Michelle King Circa 2018 Michelle King 26 November 2018 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Michelle King, conducted on November 26, 2018, in her home in Bountiful, Utah, by Alyssa Kammerman. Michelle discusses her life, her memories, and the impact of the 19th Amendment. Lorrie Rands, the video technician, is also present for this interview. AK: Today is November 26, 2018. We are in Bountiful, in the home of Michelle King, speaking with her about her life and her experiences for Weber State University’s Women 2020 project. My name is Alyssa Kammerman, and I’ll be conducting the interview and I’m here with Lorrie Rands. So I just wanted to start off with when and where were you born? MK: I was born April 26, 1957 in South Ruislip, England, just outside of London, on an Air Force base hospital. My dad was there for a short amount of time, and I lucked out. It’s kind of fun, because I could have had dual citizenship, but I opted not to. I’ve been back a couple of times, so when I enter the country, my husband always thinks it’s funny because they say, “Welcome Home!” But I love it there. AK: So your father was a part of the Air Force? MK: In the Air Force. AK: What did he do? MK: He was a civil engineer, and he just had to go once a month to a local Air Force base. But he was in for years and years. AK: How long was your family stationed in England? MK: Just a couple of years. 2 AK: So, you were born in England and lived there less than two years. Did you move somewhere else pretty soon after you were born? MK: My dad got a job in LA, and we lived in El Monte, which is about sixteen miles southeast of LA. So, I lived there all my growing up life until I graduated from high school. AK: What are some of your memories of growing up in El Monte? MK: We got to go to Disneyland a lot. It was fun. It wasn’t the fanciest city. We had gangs, even when I was in high school, and that’s a long time ago. But I had a great childhood. I was an only child for eight years, then my sister was born, so we felt lucky to get her. My mother had gone back to school and graduated, and my Dad got a Master’s Degree at USC, and they were working, and I did school and then we had my sister. Growing up, I loved friends, and we played outside a lot, because that’s what you did. There were no video games and no cell phones and other ways to entertain yourself, and I read a lot of books. My parents were really supportive, I took violin lessons, my mother taught me piano. My mother comes from a father who was the head of the music department at Southern Utah University, and he used to play the violin on the radio, and went to Juilliard. So it was kind of an unwritten rule that everybody would play a musical instrument, or two. So that’s why I played both. AK: What did your mother do for work? MK: She went to school to be a teacher, but she only substitute taught. Music was a big part of our lives. I loved school, and I spent a lot of time doing homework. 3 AK: Did you have a favorite subject? MK: English and history. AK: I read in your bio that you really enjoyed writing as well. Did you have a specific genre that you liked to write? MK: No, just… whatever the assignments were. I wouldn’t call myself a creative writer. We used to have a magazine, it was more like a mini-newspaper that would come out in big rolls every week I believe, called the Weekly Reader. And they would pass out a copy to everyone, and it had interesting stories for kids, for different age groups. And we would have to take turns going up to the front of the class reading our paragraph. And I think I really enjoyed reading out loud, and maybe that was the beginning of a future in broadcasting. But, as far as writing, I just always liked to write. I liked English. I’m strict with grammar, punctuation and correct sentence structure. It drives me crazy when it’s not just right. And that’s something I’ve always liked. I just mostly wrote for assignments, but… I enjoyed creative writing. Now, I just write with the facts. I can’t be creative with those when doing news and documentaries. AK: I love the fact that you feel like being able to get up in front of those kids and read from that newspaper is kind of what gave you that interest in broadcast journalism. MK: And reading pretty well. You don’t want people who stumble. And I think broadcasting was a job that I never had seen anyone really do up close, and I didn’t know anyone who did it. So it was kind of an exciting possibility, that 4 maybe I could have this job that not a lot of people have. There are few TV stations in some areas, like Utah. LR: That’s true. I have two questions for you. First, your parents’ names. MK: Donald and Renée. LR: And the last name? MK: Milne. LR: You said that growing up in El Monte, there was a gang presence. How did your parents help keep that from you, as you were growing up? You said you felt safe and you could play outside. MK: I did, although I had a girlfriend who, when she was maybe a sophomore in high school, we had a set of railroad tracks not far away that ran in between our home and where the high school was located. And I went to a brand-new high school at that time. And she was actually attacked on the railroad tracks and hit over the head with a pipe. To me, that whole presence of that other culture was frightening. I didn’t really see it, I didn’t hang around with people like that. My school was about half-Hispanic and half-Caucasian. I don’t really remember very many other nationalities, except that. And the gangs were just sort of present. It’s what you always think, “Oh, maybe in LA they have those.” And I think when she was hit over the head and spent some time in the hospital—she’s doing fine, and did fine—but that was the first I thought, “Wow,” you know. But, when I was a kid, that was a pretty free and easy time where you just didn’t worry about things like that. I wasn’t playing outside too much when I was in high school. But early on, things were still pretty safe during that time in my city. 5 AK: Which elementary school did you go to? MK: I went to La Primaria, and then I went to Baker Elementary, then La Primaria, back to Baker, then Linda Vista, all living in the same home. Then back to Baker for junior high, then El Monte High School for a year, and then they built Mountain View high school, which is where I went for three years and graduated. AK: Why so much back and forth? MK: They just kept building new schools. So they would shuffle us off to a different place. Sounds weird, living in the same house and going to all those schools. AK: Did you feel like the schools were pretty safe? MK: Yes, but I remember a girl who was my friend, not a close friend, but she ran for class president in the eighth grade. She figured she won, because she got up and confessed that the year before she’d overdosed on drugs. We were like, “drugs?” I didn’t know anybody that took drugs until she confessed and then won the election. I don’t know what happened to her after that, she went to a different high school. But other than that, it just felt really safe. All those things that are problems now, we didn’t deal with, and I didn’t really know anybody except her who had had any trouble like that. I didn’t know anybody in a gang. People say, yeah, some of the girls would come to school and carry razor blades in their hairdos or something. I’d just say. “What?!” It happened, but wasn’t really problematic. AK: You mentioned how music was a huge part of your growing up years. Do you feel like that had an impact on you throughout your life? 6 MK: Oh yeah. Those were things that impact me to this day. I love music. I love to play. I don’t play the piano as much as I should, but I love to play. I love to accompany people. I love to feel music, and I think a lot can be said about you and the music you play, and how it expresses how you feel. My mother took me to a man who was a former contemporary of my grandfather, who lived in Alhambra. She drove me ten miles plus away each week, and I would take violin lessons from him. He was the conductor of the Ramona Convent Girls Orchestra Catholic high school. And so he asked us to be part of the orchestra. My mom played the violin too, so we both went and played. And he directed, and that was fun. I don’t keep up my violin like I should, I even played it in the symphony orchestra at BYU. After I started having children I stopped playing, which is not good. So, I pulled out a song about a month ago, which I had bought specifically. It’s “What Child Is This?” for violin and piano. I thought, I’m going to see if I can just not play it in public, but have something to practice, seasonal. Maybe I can get my granddaughter to accompany, and we’ll just do it for a family party or something. But it’s sad when you let things like that, which are talents, kind of lapse. Maybe it’s like riding a bike, maybe it’ll be okay. I don’t know. Nothing’s worse than a violin that’s out of tune or sounds screechy, so you’ve got to be good. AK: That’s very true. MK: But I love music. My mother directed choirs at our church for probably thirty years down in California, and then again when they moved up here. We’d always sing in her choirs and she would accompany—she was a wonderful accompanist— 7 and she would accompany a community choir, and I would go sit and listen to them sing. So I was around music all the time. It’s one of the joys of my life. AK: Did you have any other hobbies in high school? MK: I was a member of the song-leading team. I don’t know that they even have song leaders anymore. It’s like a cross between, dance and a cheerleader. We would do the dances to music, and cheerleaders would just yell. But I did that for three years, while I was in high school. I also accompanied the high school choir. I played softball and basketball in junior high. Hobbies? I did a lot of homework. Sounds bad, but you know, I ended up having a 4.0 most of the time through all of school. AK: That is impressive, you sound like you were busy. MK: So homework was big. It sounds dumb, but it was good! Helps you get into college. My dad and mom had high expectations. I’m kind of a people pleaser I think, and I wanted it for myself, so I tried pretty hard. AK: I love that. So when you graduated from high school, did you have an idea of what you wanted to go into for college? MK: I thought I maybe wanted to be a teacher, because my grandma, my aunt, and my mother were all teachers and I liked that. I had done a lot of social things in high school. I was student body president, Valedictorian, if you have to know that stuff. But, other than maybe wanting to carry on the family tradition, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And so, I got in a broadcasting class. I was down at BYU, and I took Mass Communication, which is an intro, just general ed. Then there was another one I could take which was sort of an intro class to broadcasting. 8 Our teacher was actually Doug Barton, who I think is still in the business today. He owns a radio station in Manti, and he had us do all kinds of really neat things and I thought, “I kinda like this.” I didn’t know if I wanted to be on radio or TV or whatever. Then I was walking around in the Harris Fine Arts Center, which at the time housed the school’s TV station, and that’s when I saw them doing their daily newscast. And I thought, hmmm, that looks fun. So one thing led to another, and I just kept taking all the classes and really enjoyed them. So I wasn’t a teacher until now, because I teach broadcast performance at BYU, but I got to do it—not because I had the credentials to do it, but I had the qualifications of broadcasting in the real world. And this is my last semester, so I won’t be teaching any more after this. LR: What made you choose BYU? MK: Well… growing up in Southern California, there weren’t a lot of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, which is my faith and which I’m really devoted to, and I always thought, “Wouldn’t it be fun to go where there are a lot of these people around, and just see what that’s like?” I just always had it in my mind to go to BYU. My dad graduated from the U, then went to USC. My mom went to college in Cedar City, and then she graduated from Cal State LA. None of them went to BYU, I don’t think anyone in their families had gone to BYU, but I just thought it would be fun. AK: You said that you took a broadcast journalism class and that your teacher had you do a lot of fun things. What were some of those things? 9 MK: Well, because he owned that radio station in Manti, he—and to set up a radio station, you have to do all these applications through the FCC and things—so he had us actually do an application, and we were in groups and trying to apply for broadcast licenses as if we were going to own a radio station. So he just sort of made it more hands on, a little bit more real world and not so much out of a book. I mean, we read the book, but he was just great. He’s awesome. AK: So that class had more of a radio focus as opposed to television? MK: I think so, but it was about both. And then, you know, at that point, it was like ‘let’s take the next one.’ We had to take classes in writing for the school paper, the Universe, and we had to do TV performance classes, and a lot of news writing and reporting. And also how to operate the equipment behind the scenes, which was my worst class. So I knew I wasn’t cut out to work on the equipment. I’m not very bright that way. Joysticks, back in the day. Cameras. But now, cameras are robotic. AK: You said that as you walked through the Harris Fine Arts Center you saw these students broadcasting. Did they have student jobs where they would do that, or was that just for a class? MK: Yes. It was a class and it was a job. I later did that, too. I produced the newscast and ran out and anchored the first segment, then I’d run back and finish the rest as a producer. We shared. We did the whole half-hour, and back in the day we would take different segments. We had someone do the sports, someone do the weather. I did the local news, someone did the national news. So yes, I earned a paycheck there doing that. It was great. BYU has an awesome broadcast 10 program, they are recognized nationally for their broadcast program, and we felt really special. We had a teleprompter in 1976, and some stations in Idaho— commercial TV stations—didn’t even have one. So they do pour money into some good equipment and some great experiences for students. AK: I was actually going to ask about the teleprompter because I read about that in your bio. In your bio, it said the teleprompter wasn’t even computerized, it was pieces of paper taped together, is that right? MK: Yes. So, I worked at Channel Two here in town for almost thirty years and only part of that time did we have computers. The rest of the time, we had manual typewriters. We never had an electric. So when you are typing you have to press really hard. And when you do the news, there are several people that have to have a copy of your script. Each of the anchor people needs one, the director, the technical director, the audio person. And so back in the day, when there were no computers and easy ways to do it, we would have a script with several pieces of carbon paper. It sounds so archaic now, but there was the script, then a carbon, then another colored page of the script, and the anchors had a certain color, audio had a certain color. It was like eight copies. So when you were typing that in your manual typewriter, you had to press pretty hard so it would go through. When you made a mistake you’d have to block it out with pen. And then we’d go over to a table and they were a perforated kind of thing, and you’d rip the scripts and the carbons would all come out this way, and the scripts would come out this way. Then we’d collate them, so that everybody who needed the copy for each copy of the script, would have their 11 own copy. Then for the teleprompter, you would have to tape, physically tape—it sounds so ancient—all of the pages together, and then they would run it through the teleprompter. So it was like a conveyor belt, and then the script would appear on the teleprompter screen that was hooked onto the front of the camera. But, now, you type it into the computer, and you just print out the copies of the script. And they run it electronically on the teleprompter. There’s no tape, no nothing. And for my internship at KSL, in 1976, I was splicing tape together with glue. Like, they would go shoot it on an old Bell and Howe camera, and we would do the splicing with glue. I mean, it’s come a long way. Broadcasting has come a long way. AK: Do you happen to know what they used before the paper teleprompter you were just describing? MK: I don’t think they had teleprompters before that. AK: Just like notecards to keep themselves on cue? MK: Maybe cue cards, or they’d just read from their scripts. AK: Fascinating. So I just want to kind of get a timeline in my head. So you took the broadcasting class, and that’s where you first started to do some radio and even some TV broadcasting? MK: That probably would have been in like 1975. I was in college from ‘74 to ‘78, so I think I was probably a sophomore. AK: So after that, about when did you get the student job? 12 MK: I think I might have been a junior or a senior. But you can’t get the job doing that until you’ve put in the time to take all the classes and show proficiency in writing and things. AK: Was that pretty competitive, to get that student job? MK: I don’t know how I got it. I applied. Maybe I did a good job, I don’t know. The man who was our mentor in the newsroom, who was our actual news director, just passed away a couple of months ago. His name was Tom Griffiths. And I remember the first time I did the news on that station, all my friends were gathered somewhere, not like a huge group, but some of my friends, and they were going to watch. And I will never forget the line that I said, “And a Provo youth drowns in the Uintas.” [Michelle smiles] And they said, “Michelle, you smiled when you read that!” And the reason I was thinking of that, was Tom Griffiths, my mentor, said, “Michelle, if they needed a replacement for Miss Julie on Romper Room, you’d be it. Because you smile all the time.” So I had to learn. So we teach the students, every story not only needs to sound different and be read differently, but your facials really convey what you’re trying to say, the message of the story, and it has to gel. So if you’re reading something serious, you have a look on your face that’s serious. If you’re having fun at the kicker at the end of the show, maybe a light-hearted thing, or tossing to the weather, you can be lighter and have some fun. Be yourself, but you have to be appropriate. Or else, you know, it just doesn’t jive with the viewer. “Why are you smiling? That’s an awful story.” LR: How hard was that to learn? 13 MK: You know, they ask me, “How do I do that?” You’ve got to practice. It’s like Larry Gelwix, who was Highland High School’s rugby coach, like the most winning coach, and the movie Forever Strong is based on his career. He doesn’t coach anymore, but he always said, “Practice makes permanent,” instead of practice makes perfect. Who’s perfect? But, permanent…. yes. So I always tell them to read everything, read your assignments, read everything out loud, your scriptures, whatever it is you’re reading, the newspaper. Get USA Today, it’s a little easier to read, and it sounds like more conversational like broadcast. But I say that you get better as you practice, so practice at home, reading everything you can get your hands on. And try to have the appropriate body language while you’re doing that. AK: Did they also teach you a certain cadence with your voice? MK: No, you just can’t sound sing-song, and you can’t sound boring. 180 words per minute is about the perfect speed to read. Have you ever heard someone read too fast? People tune out when you’re going so fast that they can’t keep up. Because, unlike a newspaper, you only get one chance to hear it. So it doesn’t need to be dumbed down, but it needs to be conversational as opposed to a newspaper where, you know, sentences can be super long and you can read it fifty times to understand it. Broadcast has got to be different and conversational. AK: So did you have your student job through the rest of college, then? MK: Yes. And I was in a performing group at BYU called the Sounds of Freedom. It later morphed into Young Ambassadors, but we traveled. I was in that for my freshman, sophomore, and junior year. I think I saw pretty much all the United 14 States except the South, I didn’t get to the South. But we took a month-long tour every summer, and then we would take a tour in the winter for ten days. Had to miss school. But we went everywhere. And then one summer, my last summer, we went to Romania and Bulgaria, and we did a tour for the bicentennial of the U.S., where we traveled up and down the East Coast. That was really fun. We sang pop stuff too, it wasn’t just patriotic songs. And then my senior year, I decided I couldn’t have that kind of a schedule, so some of us broke off and formed a group called Cambridge. And we performed, and when I wanted to get my broadcast job after I graduated, I said guys, I can’t do it anymore, you know. They went on to perform at Lagoon nightly, along with other shows. They’re some really cool friends who have great voices. So. That’s what I did my senior year. LR: When you were in Romania, Bulgaria, still right at the height of Communism, was that a culture shock, to go there? Did you notice any differences? Or were you even allowed to go out into the community? MK: We were pretty monitored, as to where we could go. But we met some kids our age there, and talked to them a little bit. I don’t remember a lot, but it seemed like it was pretty restrictive. I found that to be true more when, in 1985, I went over to Freiberg in the former East Germany. It was four years before the Berlin Wall came down. And I was covering the first Latter-day Saint temple built behind the Iron Curtain—that was the Freiberg Temple. And we had a wonderful time, but boy, there were Russian tanks on every corner, we had an interpreter who reported in to officials as to our activities on a daily basis. And we knew that they 15 were watching us the whole time. That was kind of a weird feeling. They didn’t want us to do anything wrong. But it was an awesome experience. AK: So, if I remember correctly, you met your husband while you were in college, is that right? MK: Yes. AK: Could you tell us a little bit about how you met him? MK: He asked me on a date, and then he said, “Let’s go back and we can have some cake at my house.” And I said, “How did you know it was my birthday?” And he said, “Well, it’s my birthday.” So mine is April 26th, and his is the 27th. So we celebrated together. We actually worked together in church. I was the Relief Society president, and he was the executive secretary, and they put our two wards together for the spring term. So we were in church together. And it was funny, because I had graduated and I was starting a Master’s degree—never finished—but at the time, I had gotten my job with Channel Two and I was driving up there a lot. And, usually I’m very deliberate and cautious, and we met and were married within six months, which is really wild. But I was out of school. And he was about ready to graduate. I had dated a lot of people at school, and I didn’t need many more months to know that he was the one that I wanted to be with. AK: What was he studying? MK: Graphic design. He was going to be a doctor and then changed his mind and went totally the opposite way. It’s funny, because his dad’s a nuclear physicist, and that was kind of an interesting conversation for him, telling him that, “I’m not 16 going to be a doctor anymore, I’m going into graphic design.” “You’re an artist? What?” AK: So you got married after you graduated. What was the wedding date exactly? MK: October 13, 1979. So next year is our fortieth wedding anniversary. AK: Oh, congratulations. So around that same time, your husband graduated from college… MK: He had one semester left. AK: He had one semester left, okay. What was that like for you, finding a job right out of college? MK: Well, it was interesting. I had sent out fifty resumes. Thing is, in TV, they have what they call markets. And each area, city, usually a city, or a conglomeration of cities, is a TV market. So the biggest market is New York City, and LA. It’s based on population size. And Los Angeles, it goes on down through your, Philadelphia, Dallas, San Francisco. And when I started at KUTV, we were like number 50. And we’re 33 now, because our population went up here, then our market size, we moved up the scale. So, when I was graduating, I sent out a lot of resumes, and the problem is, because I’d come from a large urban area, and I just couldn’t see myself living in Billings, Montana, working and doing the news. So I sent them out to places where I had no business sending out a resume. And got turned down from a few, got some interest from a few. And then I had a friend who was a cameraman, and had gone to work at Channel Two, right after college. And he said, “Michelle, there’s a spot for a consumer reporter for the noon show only. I can give the news director your tape.” And back then, they 17 were big huge tapes that we put our work on. And now, you do it via website, and on YouTube, and all kinds of things. It’s so different. So he gave it to the news director, Jack Gallivan Jr. (Gallivan Center, that’s his father, who used to be the publisher I believe of the Salt Lake Tribune). And we called him Champ, his nickname to everyone in the newsroom. But I owe him a lot, because, you know, getting a job in broadcasting is really subjective. They don’t even look at your GPA, and if you hadn’t graduated college but you were really good at what you did on air, they’d probably still hire you. So maybe he liked me, but another news director or two or three wouldn’t have hired me. So it’s a real subjective thing, but he decided to give me a go. So I was driving up every day from BYU, because I was still living down there for a little bit. And had a great job. And it was, I got five dollars an hour to start, to be on TV. Isn’t that amazing? LR: Yeah. It’s more than I got minimum wage when I started working. MK: But this was a long time ago, and it was still, like five dollars an hour? That felt okay to start with, but that was in August of ‘78 that I started, soon after graduating. And I was grateful to get a job in a bigger market, and not have to go small. Although these days we tell our students to go to the smaller markets, get your feet wet. They’re kind of one-man bands, they know how, at BYU, they train them, they shoot their own stories, they write them, they edit them, and they’re on air. So they can do it all themselves, which is really awesome. And we say, “Go to a smaller market and make all your mistakes, because people here wouldn’t put up with that like they might in smaller towns.” That’s sad, but you 18 know what I’m saying? So we say go somewhere small, get some experience, and then come back or go somewhere else bigger. So I felt lucky that I didn’t have to go there, and yet that presented some problems, because the news desk would give me stories to go cover that were kind of fluff stories. And the photographers were rolling their eyes at me, and you know, I’d go home at night and cry, like, “What have I gotten myself into?” And then various opportunities came along. I started out with the fluff stuff, but then as I persisted, and worked really hard…you have to have a good work ethic, and I guess I was okay at what I did, and then I got more chances to do things, and the one thing I remember is that I wanted to be an anchorperson. And that, you know, you usually have to be an anchor and a reporter. So I started in August, and by January, there was an opening on the noon show. And they gave it to me, to co-anchor the noon show. But I didn’t look the part, I had really long hair, looked young and lacked credibility. And I just thought, “Well, I’m glad I got the noon show.” But then by the time Steve was ready to graduate college, an opportunity came up where they didn’t have enough people to anchor the evening news. Someone called in sick and everybody else was gone or couldn’t, and they said, “Can you do it?” And I said, “Ahhh, my chance!” But, it was the night of my husband’s college graduation banquet. And I called him and said, “What am I supposed to do?” And he said, “You’ve got to go do the news, or they may never ask again.” Which was probably true. So I did, and over time, you know, you just kind of plug along. And you work hard, and you do your best, and hopefully you improve. And you get older, 19 so you don’t look quite so young, and you cut your hair, and kind of make yourself over a little bit, so you don’t look like you just walked out of the graduation robe, and it just took time. But, I’m really grateful for the opportunities, and they were so good to me at that station. That’s why I stayed so long. People don’t generally stay 30 years at one place. They’ll always stay maybe two or three, sign a contract, we had to sign contracts, because once they put money into promoting you, and all those kinds of things, they want you to stay. When I started having kids, I hadn’t planned on staying, but they worked my schedule so I could, and I loved my job. I loved what I was doing, so I decided to see if I could do both, and they made it so I could, and I had a really cooperative, wonderful husband. AK: So at the time when you first started out, what was it like for women in the broadcast journalism field? MK: Well there weren’t very many. They only had maybe two women that were on air at our station. And we never had anybody do the evening news who was a woman. And I always say, with regard to women, every station wanted one. Wanted one. Or two. You know. So I feel like I was there at a really great time, when they were starting to be more cognizant of the fact that women should be on the news, and it didn’t have to be male dominated. And it’s funny, because after I had a chance to do the noon show for a while, and I worked there for maybe a year or a year and a half, and had a chance to anchor a few times in the evenings as a fill in, they offered me a contract. 20 That’s generally what you do when you’re an anchor person, even in small stations. They want you to commit that you’ll stay a certain amount of time, especially if they’re going to put money into promoting you as their on-air person. And I remember they offered me a contract, it was when I was doing the noon show, it was even before I got married, because I still had my maiden name. I went to my dad, and I said, “Okay, this is the contract they offered, I don’t know if it’s a lot.” And he said, “It’s not. Hold out.” And I said, “What if they don’t want me if I hold out?” He says, “I wouldn’t sign it. Because you’re committed for two years to hardly any money.” It was a little better than five bucks an hour. So I went up and said, “I’m not going to sign for that amount of money.” So they doubled it. Still wasn’t a lot of money by today’s standard, but for then it was decent. And I was really grateful that I had someone help me. So after that, some people get agents (I never needed an agent), but I always had a lawyer look over my contracts through the years to make sure that it was fair for me and the station. AK: That’s smart. You mentioned that it was really subjective, getting a job. What were some of the things that they would look for, what did you have to cultivate within yourself to get a job? MK: I don’t know exactly what they looked for. I suppose credibility and that you had some kind of a personality. Every time I go on vacation, in any part of the country, I watch news wherever I go, because I’m like little news junkie, I just love it. And we always tell our students, if you’re not watching newscasts daily, a couple daily, you probably don’t want to be in this field. I mean, I have to admit I 21 don’t love watching the news so much these days. Local news is good, but all the stuff on the national news, it just gives me anxiety. But we talk to the students about having something that viewers can relate to, personally. You can’t be silly, you can’t fake a relationship with your co-anchor, because viewers can see right through it. So you need to be real, and that’s one thing I always said, is, you know, “The way I am on TV is the way I am in person.” People have told me that. And maybe that’s one of the keys to my longevity there, not getting fired or let go after all those years, is just that it was sort of natural. That’s what they tell me. But I never tried to be something that I wasn’t. You don’t have to be good looking. You just have to be pleasant. And I just think credibility is a major factor, and likability, you know. And viewers need to feel like they can trust you when something terrible happens. So you want people to believe in you, that you’re trustworthy, and that when something does happen, they know that they want to go to you, because they believe that you’ll tell them the real deal. They always say there’s this kind of… factor that, that you can’t put your finger on. That some people, even as I watch today, I’m like, I’m drawn to you, I like the relationship you have with each other, I believe you, I want to watch you. Here are people that I feel a connection to. LR: One thing that I’ve noticed is, especially in the 70’s and 80’s, especially in Utah, working mothers were just, it just was frowned upon. So did you encounter a lot of opposition? 22 MK: I actually received some letters in the mail where people said I should stay home with my children. I was like, you have no idea what my life is. And I also had a husband who was in business for himself, had no insurance, it wasn’t as steady as we wanted it to be, and… I liked my job, and I found a way to balance the two. I don’t think all working mothers have the luxury of doing that, you know. Some don’t get to work just a little, a few hours a day, away from their kids. And it’s hard. But I think it’s one of those decisions where, I mean, yeah, I think the ideal would be to be home, providing you’re not frittering your time away and paying attention to your children while you are there. But for me, I really enjoyed my job, and we needed my job, and they were willing to work with me at the job. And so for those reasons, I was okay to continue doing it. But there were people who gave me a little backlash. And I loved my kids, and I did the very best I could. I called myself the hit and run Mom, because I can honestly say that I went to pretty much everything my children did. I worked in the evenings later, you know, so that gave me mornings and early afternoon to go help at the school. So I was involved that way. And then at nighttime, or when they had games, musical theater shows, and choir programs, I would use my vacation days or run during my dinner hour to go to their performances, or their games. But I just felt like I didn’t want to miss anything. And I don’t really feel like I did. They all took piano lessons too, so I had to call up the teacher and say, “Do you think they can go first in the recital, so that I can be there to hear them?” I didn’t feel like I had to hear everyone at the recital, but if I could hear them, and they knew that I was there for them. So, I did the best I could. I think it worked. 23 And, they had a dad at night who was home, and that was his job at night to pay attention to them. They have a pretty good relationship with him, which some kids don’t get with a dad, so I felt lucky that we could both have our time with them. The backwards thing is when you work the evening news, which is kind of the most desirable newscast to do, the later one, because most people are home, and it’s the compilation of all the day’s news, I was gone at night. And then they all graduate and they’re gone and leave home, and then I’m home at night now, because I don’t do that job anymore. I thought, that’s backwards. I wish it would have been a different time of day, but I think we worked it the best we could. And once you’ve made a decision, and in my case prayerfully made a decision, I felt like you have to move forward, and whatever the decision is for you, you’re responsible for it. So I couldn’t worry about what anybody else said. Just do what I thought I had to do and do it the best I could do. There is no Super Woman, though, I will say that. Because women back in the 70’s, wanted to be super women. They want to have kids, they want to work, they want to do it all. And you can do it all, but some things are not done very well. There has to be give and take. So you just do the best you can. AK: I’m curious, did you feel there was a pretty big discrepancy in pay between men and women when you first started? You don’t have to answer that if you don’t want to. MK: Well, I’m sure there was. How do you ask your co-anchor what they make? But I always felt like they were pretty fair with me, after we got past that first contract, you know. And then I guess I had some more added value for the station 24 because I stayed so long. It’s weird how broadcasting works. You want to get as many people to watch as you can, and then you do better in the ratings months. Do you know what those are? So every February, May, July, and November, they monitor who’s watching using boxes—Nielsen rating boxes—hooked onto TVs, and now they get the results overnight. And whichever station in each market has the best ratings, you can charge the most for your advertising. Which is a good thing. If you stay somewhere a long time, and people like to watch, then that always helps. I felt like I got a fair salary. The longer I stayed, the more I made. So I didn’t feel like I needed to ask my co-anchors what they made. But in the back of my head, I wondered. And I’m sure there was great disparity. Maybe not in my case, I don’t know. But I know there were a lot of places where there was, back in the 70’s especially…Like I said, every station wanted a woman. Were you just there ‘cause they thought they needed a woman? Were they going to pay you for your work, like your co-anchor? I don’t know. But I’ve never felt like they did me a disservice in my pay, so I’m probably not a real good one to speak to that. They were more than fair. And then at the end, when I cut back my hours a bit, they cut my pay too. But I said, “That’s fine, do it. If I can just work one show instead of two, that’s fair. It’s good.” AK: Also, you mentioned you did a little bit of advertising, but what were some of the ways you would get more viewers to watch your channels? MK: We did lots of speaking engagements. People are always looking for speakers, and for some reason they think local TV people are good people to ask. I did a lot of church related speaking, and then we did things around the community. And 25 that was fun, because the more you get out and about in the community, you get to know who’s watching. It’s great to be involved in the community. One of the things that I did from the get-go, when they started it, and Channel Two still does it, is the Baby Your Baby campaign. I was the on-air spokesperson. That was something we started, and it lowered infant mortality rates, and so it was something really worthwhile. All of those causes take extra time and that’s not paid time. You just do it, knowing that it helps the station and it helps you. Because if people see you out and about, they’re more likely to think, “Oh, I think she’s okay, maybe I’ll watch her.” It kind of goes full circle that way. AK: And, just out of curiosity, I don’t know if this is too personal, but what was maternity leave like for anchors? MK: Well the fun thing is that, nowadays a lot of anchors stand up at the news desks, but back in the day we had chairs at Channel Two, and I always just said, “The bigger I get, the lower we go,” so, we would lower the chairs. I told the co-anchor, they want you to kind of be similar height, so usually I was pumping up high to try to, you know, match the heights so the cameras don’t have problems. But I said, “We’re going low. The bigger I get, the lower we’re going.” I remember I had just gotten the evening news, and the opportunity to do it permanently. And that was in 1985, and election time had come up in November, and I was pregnant with our daughter, which was my second child. And in November, I was 7 months along. So I was big. And I remember going to our producer, and I said, “Okay, I’ve studied, I’ve done my homework, I’ve done a lot of reading on all these 26 candidates and the issues. So, you’re going to give us scripts right?” And he said, “We don’t use scripts on election coverage, Michelle, because everything is so fluid, you know, it just keeps changing.” I said, “No scripts?!” So I kept studying and studying, and my only goal was to not look stupid. That was my goal for the night, not look stupid. So we go on-air, and it’s going pretty well. And it just happened to be the year, these names would mean nothing to you, but it was the Frances Farley-David Monson race for Congress. As I remember, the machines broke down, and we were on the air till 4 a.m., live. And I remember, people were calling in and saying, “Let the pregnant lady go home!” I mean, I don’t even know that I went to the bathroom, which is amazing. LR: That’s quite a feat! MK: I know! And I thought, “I am staying until the men go home.” That’s what I told them. AK: Good for you! MK: So. Maternity leave, yeah. Four weeks, I think, maybe. Except with this daughter, after I had her, it was the ratings month. The sweeps month was in February, and I had her in the end of January, on the 22nd. I went back to work the next week. Only, they said, just come in for the shows, you can go home in between. But it’s an important month, so I did it. And luckily that was the one pregnancy where I could actually fit back into my clothes. I don’t know how it happened. And people thought that was pretty funny, that I was back on the air so soon, but I thought, you’ve been good to me. If I can work this out, just go in, do the half-hour show, go home, come back, and do the other half hour show, I’ll do it. 27 AK: And in the evenings, you were saying, your husband was home with the kids. MK: He was home. AK: I didn’t know if you needed daycare or anything like that. MK: I did have to use daycare for a couple of years with the oldest boy. But the place I took him was right by the station, and I was working the morning shift at that time, and I’d run over and see him and run back. We lived close by, and Steve worked right by there, so somehow you just find a way to make it work. Whatever it is. Find a way to make it work for you. And then later when I got the evening shifts, that worked better because then I would hire girls from our neighborhood who were older, and I said, “I’ll pay you more if you act like you’re the surrogate mother while you’re there. I don’t want you watching TV and sitting around, I want you with them and doing things with them,” and they were awesome girls. So we did that for several years. And they had fun. Those girls were some of my kids’ best friends. So you just find ways to make it work that you feel good about. AK: How many kids did you have? MK: Four kids. And this year, they range in age from 25 to 37. AK: So, you have one daughter and three sons, is that correct? MK: Three boys, right. And they all start with C’s. Cameron, Courtnie, Collin, and Connor. AK: Was that on purpose? MK: I went back in the old name books, name lists I used to keep as a teenager. Why would I do that? And after you have two, you have to make a decision. Are we 28 going to go there or not? And I like that all the boys names are all Gaelic, you know? So yeah, we went there. AK: So, continuing on with your career: you retired from being a news anchor in 2008, is that correct? MK: It was actually two days from now. It was November 28 of 2007, on the very last night of Sweeps. And Dick Nourse, who worked at Channel Five for a lot longer than I worked at KUTV, retired the same night. I was only fifty years old, but I just felt like I had done what I set out to do there, and I’d had a great time, and not that they were looking to replace me. The general manager was great and they always said, “You can stay as long as you want,” but I just felt like I needed to do some other things. Little did I know. So, when I was getting ready to quit, my boss said, “You should do some interviews with a few people that you’ve always wanted to interview but have never met or never interviewed.” So I did Jerry Sloan, who was the coach of the Utah Jazz. He’d been there probably as long as I had, but I’d never met him. I just wanted to know what made him tick, so I interviewed him. I interviewed Governor and Mrs. Huntsman, Jon Huntsman, in their mansion. I chatted with David Osmond, ‘cause, so it was like, sports, political, entertainment. And he had West Nile Virus and some things, so he had an interesting story. And then I thought, “Well I also want a religious leader.” And I had met him before, but I had never done anything with Jeffrey Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve. And so I called and asked if I could do a sit down with him, and his secretary said, “We don’t really do that. I mean, they don’t have time 29 to really interview with everybody who wants to talk to them.” But because I was retiring (and they probably knew I’d never call him again) he agreed to do it. So, about a week before that interview, his secretary called me again and said, “So Elder Holland’s still good to do the interview with you, but he also wanted to talk to you and your husband. Do you think you could work out a time when you could both sit down with him?” And I said, “Well, I know how busy Elder Holland’s schedule is, Steve works just down the street, so when our interview’s over, I’ll have Steve just come up and we can just carry on, camera guys can go home.” It’s so funny, because he just said, “You probably wonder why I want to talk to both of you. It’s about the M-word.” I had no idea what that was. AK: Mission? MK: Yeah, mission. Goodness. I don’t know what I really planned for myself in retirement. Party time with grandkids? I don’t know what I thought. Steve wasn’t old enough to retire, so I wasn’t sure why I needed to be done, but sometimes you just know when it’s the right time. And like I said, no one had said a thing about retiring, they were great. ‘Stay, stay!’ But, it actually worked out. It was kind of crazy. That whole week when I retired was really an emotional rollercoaster. Steve’s mother had just passed away, we had her funeral one night, and then one son got his Eagle the next night, then we had a retirement party at work the next night, and the next night I retired, and then the next week President Eyring called to officially call us to serve a mission. The interview with Elder Holland was 30 kind of like, “Is this a possibility? Just exploratory, maybe?” Then it was official. So then I had plenty to do, because it takes a lot. We were going to sell our house, when we left, and it was kind of the bad part because February of 2008 was when everything hit. And all the people who were building homes, when North Salt Lake was just starting to build up over there, they had built homes twice the size of ours and were selling them for the same price as ours, brand new big homes, because they didn’t want to lose their shirt, it was just the tumble. And we had hired one of our friends, who was probably the best realtor in South Davis County, and I think she only got two people in here to even look at the house. It didn’t sell. We were planning to use some of the money to help pay for the mission. So it was an interesting time. But, President Eyring said, “It’ll all work out.” And I thought that meant selling the house in May and then we leave in June. We didn’t have any family who could move in, and we didn’t really want to rent it, so we just closed it up and had family members check in and make sure things were working. We were very blessed that the whole time we were gone nothing bad happened. For three years! That’s a long time. So, we spent from December through June getting prepared and reading a lot of things and getting trained by phone with someone from the MTC, who was helping us learn what we needed to do. And we left, took our youngest son with us, and went to the Georgia Atlanta North Mission. And it was the time of our lives. Never worked harder, never had a better time. It was awesome, and it was great for our son. 31 So, it was time to come home, and the job Steve had been promised wasn’t available. And we were just like, “Ah, just been three years with no salary and now we have no job, and Michelle retired, and now what?” So at the end of our mission, I got a call from the head guy over at KSL, who said, “We have a show called Mormon Times that we do, and our host is going to be leaving, would you be interested in doing it when you get back?” Later, I called him and said I’d do it. Then the Church called Steve some months later to work in the missionary department. So, it’s a great job. He loves it. So it all worked out, like President Eyring said. Just a different way. Things have a way of working themselves out. I guess you have to just learn to roll with the punches and make the best of every situation and it worked out okay. And I think I learned some good lessons in the meantime. I had a pretty decent salary when I worked doing the news, and I grew to appreciate that even more, later, when I didn’t have it anymore. So I thought, I was pretty blessed. It was an awesome life. So it’s good. AK: Can I ask, what were some of your duties as the mission president’s wife? Some of the things that you were in charge of? MK: Well, it wasn’t very clearly defined. I dealt with all the missionary medical, which was pretty awesome. Some days, no one called in sick. Some days, I was on the phone and arranging appointments for eight hours, and insurance and everything. But when you feel like you’re really helping them. And I got really close to some of them, as you’re talking to them and helping them and they’re appreciative. Kind of just have an extra bond that developed with a lot of them. I learned a lot too. Steve by the end of the mission was calling me “Sister King, 32 Medicine Woman,” because I learned a lot. We had an area medical advisor who was so helpful, but, I learned not to diagnose, ‘cause I wasn’t even a nurse, but I kind of knew what illnesses were going around, and what they could do to help themselves. There was the missionary doctor, but they had no nurse in the mission. They have one now. I fixed a lot of food. Every time it was transfers, every six weeks, we’d have a group coming in and a group leaving. I have never worked harder in my life. That’s a lot of beds. We had a lot of twin beds in that house, between the basement and upstairs. A lot of laundry, towels, bedding, and meals to cook, for the group coming in and the group going out, and getting the beds changed. And then I had to go train at the transfer meeting. Some days I remember, sometimes during that transfer time, it was so stressful—fun, but so stressful. So much to do. I remember one day in between the meetings I just laid down in our house and just was in a ball of tears. Just like, “I can’t do it! I can’t get it all done in time!” ‘Cause I didn’t have any house helper or anything, and it’s a lot of stuff that had to be done. And then I thought, “Well, you can stay here and cry on the ground or get up and get working. You can do it again, you know. It’ll work.” And it did, it always did. I got to do some training at zone conferences. We had the meetings in our home with some of the mission leadership, and Steve gave a lot of talks at stake conferences and different places around. We had our 15-year old son Connor with us. The first he heard about the mission, he was tearful for a couple of minutes, and then said, “This could be fun.” So we get out there, and we find so 33 many great kids in our congregation, and the school was an amazing school. People moved to that district just to go to these high schools. They’re so awesome. I have to say, he got the best education of anybody in the family. They had people with doctorates teaching high school, it was amazing. But it was also a 6A high school. It was huge. Bountiful High probably had 1,200 kids, this one had 3,000. It was a sports and academic powerhouse. Except for the sport that he had been playing and getting good at and the high school team he was going to be on. We were leaving right after ninth grade ended, and Bountiful High was set to take state, and they did the next year or two. So we get over to this big high school that has everything—rugby, riflery. Did they have lacrosse? No. So, I said “Okay, you can take guitar lessons, Connor.” So the sophomore year was a little difficult, but he had good friends and that made a difference. And we said, “What can we do to get lacrosse at this high school?” So we met with the athletic director at the high school, and he said, “Well, we have to know that students would support it, so maybe if Connor can get a petition going around and get some signatures, it’s just starting to take hold in our district so maybe we can get a team.” So Connor went around, got 500 signatures, and the athletic director said, “Okay, the ROTC guy is gonna be the coach. He’s only played hockey, but he’ll learn.” So Connor ended up teaching a lot of the boys on the team, but they got a varsity girls and a guy’s team, and it’s a school sanctioned sport there, so they had uniforms, buses. You didn’t have to pay very much like you do here, it’s a club sport in Utah for a little bit longer. And so Steve designed the logo for the team, ‘cause graphic design was what he started out in, and they still use the 34 logo he designed. Connor taught the kids to play, and I was the booster club secretary ‘cause it was something I could do in all my ‘spare time,’ which I had none. But I did it at home on the computer, and it gave me a great chance to interact with awesome parents. Not just church people, but people of all kinds. I loved it. And it was a highlight. So anyway, the next year, when he was a senior, they added JV girls and boys and a feeder team in the community. And now, you know, obviously they were okay, but they weren’t great the year Connor played, but everyone was kind of starting. But they did okay, they held their own. The cool thing is that those kids who were in the feeder program that were in the fourth grade, now they’re at the high school and they’re good. And I said, “Connor, you have your own little legacy in Georgia. You got that started there, and you worked really hard.” Makes me tear up. Anyway, it was a really good time. The mission was good for all of us. AK: Thank you, I appreciate you talking about that. I also wanted to ask you real quick a little bit more about the Mormon Times show. MK: Oh. Yes, I didn’t finish the story. So they called me and he said, “Yes, come do the show.” We loved it, it was a fun show. It aired right before the Tabernacle Choir on Sunday mornings, and it kind of dealt with the Church audience, but we tried to make it an inspirational show that people of any religion would like. It was a lot of feel-good stuff and it was really fun. Sadly, the station couldn’t afford to keep it going. It had been on two years before I came, and then we ran it another eighteen months. So, that’s when I started teaching at BYU. They called and that turned out to be something that I wanted to do my whole life, because I wanted to 35 be a teacher. So, it ended up being a good thing, not the way I planned, but a good thing. Because I was going to do it years before, then I got the evening news and I couldn’t do it. So I was really grateful. Then my boss went and did a little work elsewhere, and then they called us both back to do documentaries that air as part of General Conference programming. I’d never done a documentary in my life. I’ve done stories, lots of stories, but half an hour’s worth? So I’m a producer in the special projects unit. So we’re not the news department where all the hubbub is. It’s the quiet side of the building where we can think and contemplate. It’s fun. I learned how to do something new. I had to reinvent myself at an old age. And it was good, ‘cause I didn’t think I could do it and I did. It’s worthwhile, and it’s a meaningful job. AK: And that’s where you’re at right now? MK: That’s where I’m at. There are two deadlines for General Conference, April and October. So I have to have two projects, and I would usually get the one done for October, then I’d go teach my class in the fall. And I’ve loved the students and it’s been great. I’ve taught it four different semesters, and I have this new church calling that I’m doing, I need a little more flexibility for, so I’m gonna keep doing the stuff at KSL, and then just not teach anymore. AK: Do you have any questions? LR: I do. I got thinking as you got talking about all of this amazing work that you’ve done. Was there one person in your career that just had that impact? Or helped you through your career, or you can look back on and think, yes, that person made the difference? 36 MK: I can’t say one person, except for maybe that news director at BYU who gave me a start, Tom Griffiths. But there are so many people and news directors who had trust and faith in me when I didn’t maybe have it in myself and I appreciated them always being on my side. I worked with a lot of really great co-anchors, and the thing that is so true is broadcasting is not an individual sport. It’s a team effort. Everybody needs to make the other person look good, or help them when they’re having trouble. And we tell the students this too, “You know, you’re not out there as some shining star by yourself.” Because it seemed like the people that I was always paired up with could compensate in the areas where I wasn’t as confident or as good. I did breaking news, but I’m better with a script. And the guys I worked with, the ones that come to mind the most, are Terry Wood, Randall Carlisle, and Mark Koelbel, who’s still on Channel Two. They could adlib about anything. Anytime. They’re just so good on the fly, and I’m a little more planned and prepared type. So I felt like, I would do my part, but then I knew I could always depend on them to kind of carry me when I didn’t have any more questions to ask. And it was just fun working with these people who were very different personally than I was. But I have such respect for them. So I would probably have to say it would be my series of co-anchors and people that I worked with on the news set, because we all sort of lifted and carried each other. AK: I have one question left if you don’t mind… MK: Ask them! We have time. AK: I think it’s fascinating that you got to interview so many famous people. Were there stories that you feel like impacted you quite a bit? 37 MK: I think that something I learned from, seeing a variety of people do awesome things, and one of my favorite stories was… Well, I loved interviewing President Monson and President Hinckley. Gladys Knight. I used to do the noon show, and it was back in the day, we would open up the phones, and we’d interview somebody, and we had these rock stars come through. And opera stars, and people who were in town to promote concerts, and I’d put them on the air and interview them, and put them on the phones, put them on delay and that was really fun. And the Freiberg, Germany story was amazing. A lot of my stories that I did on people tended to be revolving around the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ people. Just because they would say, “Okay, its Sweeps time, we need a special story, what do you want to do?” I remember reporter Rod Decker coming into the newsroom, I was just young, it was 1987, so I was still fairly young. And he said, “I think we need to do a report on a day in the life of an apostle.” And we’re like, “Oh, that’s great,” you know. “Like they’re going to do that.” And he says, “And I think you ought to do it Michelle, and I think it ought to be Elder Neal A. Maxwell.” And I was like, “Okay, I’ll ask. They just don’t have time for stuff like this!” And so I called the office, and he agreed. And with video, you’ve got to have video footage to cover your story or you might as well be on radio. You got to have something for TV. So I said, “Elder Maxwell, we have to have a lot of different video of you doing things. So I appreciate the interviews, but what can we do to show all aspects of your life?” Well, he was an avid tennis player. He played every week with some of his friends. So we went, and we 38 watched him playing tennis, and we went to the airport, we were at some of his speaking events. He spent time with his grandchildren in the park, we went and got video of them there, they had scripture study and family home evening with his family, all his grandkids. He let us into all aspects of his life. He was the kindest man, just the best. And so, at the end, I wanted to do a good job journalistically, but I just cared that he liked what we did, and he was happy with it. And we did three different stories that aired on three different nights. So at the end of it all, I thought, “Well, I’ll never see him again in person. But it’s been fun!” I’ll be darned if every year after that, he didn’t call Steve or myself and say, “Colleen and I wondered if you are free to come up and have lunch with us at the Church Administration Building? Then we’ll go up in my office and we’ll just chat.” So every year Steve and I would go down there and meet him and his wife. He’d treat us to lunch. We would go walk up, say hi to his cute secretary, and then we’d go into his office and he’d pick our brains on what we thought was important in the Church these days or whatever. And when he’d call to ask us, he’d always say, “I know how busy you guys are, oh so busy, but could you come?” And we would say, “Are you kidding? You’re so busy! Yes we’ll come.” But he was just so endearing and so kind, and just the best person. And he didn’t do it just with me or just for the members of his faith, he had all kinds of community people that he would do that with. He was just a good guy, and was generally interested in people and loved people. And it’s kind of like, once his friend, always his friend. And then he performed the marriage of our daughter, and was going to perform the marriage of our oldest son who got married seven months later, but his 39 secretary called me, maybe a week or two before the wedding. She said, “I’m so sorry, but Elder Maxwell is unable to perform the ceremony, due to circumstances beyond his control.” Well, he had leukemia, and he died, like the day before the wedding. He was amazing. Here’s the amazing part, too, besides those lunches. I had the two younger boys, and he showed up on our doorstep with baby gifts. And Steve had a surgery, and he and his wife came to the hospital. I mean, we didn’t ask, he just kept up on people’s lives. So he’s really my greatest example of all time. I just think the world of him, and they were so kind, and so genuine. So, he’s my favorite interview, because it turned into a long-term friendship. That is one thing that’s really cool about that job, you do get to meet some interesting people doing all kinds of interesting things. Really great people. AK: That’s exciting. Thank you. If there’s anything else you want to add, you’re welcome to, and then we’ll close up. MK: Well, I just think it was a privilege to have that job. I said I really was interested in broadcasting because it was a job that I didn’t know anybody who did it. Somehow that fascinated me, and the fact that it could tie-in the things that I liked. I like to write, and I like people, and I like to talk. So I thought, “It’s a good job.” I was always curious about things and I think to do news, you have to be curious about what makes people tick, what makes the world go round, you know, why bad people do what they do, why good people do what they do. And news needs to be a mix of the difficult things that people need to know that can be tragic or sad or whatever, but it also needs to include really great stories of 40 people doing good things and making a difference in their community. I think we always had that in the newscasts, and I loved it. And every day at work was different. It was never the same. Maybe you find that when you’re interviewing different people. You’re doing the same job but it’s not the same every day. And I think that’s really invigorating too. AK: For my final question, I mentioned a little earlier that I know women that really look up to you for what you’ve done, but also for the genuine person you were. So being a role model, is there anything you would like to tell the rising generation of girls or young women? MK: Well, what I lived by is, know what your standards and your values are. Stick to them. Set your priorities, stick to them, and even if things get a little messed up and out of order, the minute you recognize that, switch it back and get them in order. Because no one’s perfect. But, just be yourself and be kind. Kindness goes a long way. I think just generally being interested in people. Because, it’s always more fun to ask them questions than to talk about yourself. Like today. I like biographies because I like knowing about people and what makes them tick. You know? Everybody who was successful had a hard time somewhere in their story. Don’t you think? And even if it was me learning to be grateful in hindsight for this great job I had for three decades. I was really blessed to have that job, and I appreciated it and I loved it, but I didn’t fully appreciate it until I didn’t have it anymore. And be grateful as you’re moving up. Because, we tell the students, not that there’s a pecking order in the newsroom, but you know, the person doing the news is kind of front and center there. And you’re nothing 41 without the teleprompter person running your teleprompter at the right speed. You’re nothing without the floor director cueing you so you don’t look dumb. You’re nothing without the other people who make up your team. So don’t step on people, always have gratitude and treat people well and you’ll never be sorry. AK: Wonderful, thank you so much! We really appreciate you taking time out of your schedule to speak with us.