Oral History Program Ashe Tolbert Interviewed by Nute Rands 6 August 2019 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Ashe Tolbert Interviewed by Nute Rands 6 August 2019 Copyright © 2022 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Beyond Suffrage Project was initiated to examine the impact women have had on northern Utah. Weber State University explored and documented women past and present who have influenced the history of the community, the development of education, and are bringing the area forward for the next generation. The project looked at how the 19th Amendment gave women a voice and representation, and was the catalyst for the way women became involved in the progress of the local area. The project examines the 50 years (1870-1920) before the amendment, the decades to follow and how women are making history today. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Tolbert, Ashe, an oral history by Nute Rands, 6 August 2019, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Ashe Tolbert 6 August 2019 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Ashe Tolbert, conducted on August 6, 2019, in the Stewart Library, by Nute Rands. Ashe discusses her life, her memories, and the impact of the 19th Amendment. Reagan Baird, the video technician, is also present during this interview. NR: Alright, today is August 6th, the time is 12:12 and we are interviewing Ashe Tolbert. And I am Nute Rands interviewing, on camera is Reagan. Thank you so much for doing this. AT: It’s no problem. NR: Alright, so our first question. When and where were you born? AT: When and where. I was born in Las Vegas, Nevada. The year is, dreadfully, 1999. My mother was at home in the Air Force basing, so a little bit outside the Strip and everything, you know, away from all the craziness, because lord knows I needed to be born into that. Turning what I turned into. My father wasn’t actually home at the time she started going into labor, so she called up a bunch of people and they took her to the ER. And then, I was born there. I don’t remember which hospital, but I’ve passed by it like many times going to Las Vegas. NR: Alrighty. So how did you go from Las Vegas to Utah? AT: It was from Las Vegas to a few different places. ‘Cause I’ve not only lived in Nevada, but also Alaska, Arizona, and Utah. So it was mostly for like, the brunt of my childhood, it was up here in Utah and then my mother and father got divorced and so, my father was still in the Air Force, so he was still being stationed around 2 the country. So that’s how ended up in both Alaska and Arizona. During the summer, Alaska and Arizona, two very, very different climates, for a small child. It was like, “Oh, good, I’m just going to die, it’s fine.” NR: Alright. So, when you were young, who were some of the women you looked up to? AT: My mom especially. I think from a young age, I like kind of always admired her because, for the longest time, she was a single, divorced parent raising two children in places that were not her home, because she was from Indiana. And so she had moved out and got with my dad and then they sort of got together, and then they divorced. And then, you know, she was kind of raising me and my brother on her own for the longest time. And I thought she was so strong, and I always thought she was so beautiful and so kind. ‘Cause I realize she always did what was best for us even when we literally hated her for it. And I respected her for that. I have come to respect her for that. NR: It’s like the curse of parents. AT: Yeah. You are telling me. NR: Before we get into the questions for 2020, can I ask how you came out? Both stories, if that’s ok. AT: Yeah. The first was actually acknowledging that, at the time, I thought I was a gay man. I think it was my dad actually, who I never thought would approach me for something like that—when I was like 12 or 13 and was like, “Are you gay?” And I was like, “I guess.” Because I’d always been a very flamboyant child, I liked to be very extra, very off-the-wall. It wasn’t uncommon. And they were just like, 3 “Alright, that’s fine. We don’t mind.” And the second time, when I came out as a transwoman, it was actually to my best friend, in our senior year English class. It was like the end of the year, and I was thinking in class all that day. I wasn’t sure about myself. I wasn’t sure if I was actually like a gay man, and I was like, I’ve always wanted to wear girls clothing. Clothing is for everyone. But girls clothing, makeup, the whole... like just being treated... I hated being called “he,” or referred to by “him.” And I thought it was very strange, I was like, “Maybe that correlates to me not feeling right in this body specifically.” So I was like, I kind of turned to her and we talked about it for a little bit and I was like, “Yeah, I don’t think I’m a man.” I was like, “I don’t think I’m gay.” And then I was like, “I’m probably a trans woman.” And that’s what felt the most natural. NR: Was education something you were pushed to pursue? AT: I was pushed to pursue education. I was never the best in school, I always had a hard time, growing up with ADHD. I was medicated for about seven years until like, eleven, twelve, when I just stopped taking them, when I thought I could be ok. And then, you know, I was alright, I could handle myself, I could control myself, but I had always had a rough time in school. So when I was finishing up high school, the urgency for college was very prevalent in, not only my parents’ minds, but my uncles and aunts and grandparents. And it wasn’t something that I personally wanted to do because coming out of high school, I had the mentality that I didn’t want to take out loans and get into debt for something that I wasn’t going to be fully committed to, because... I’m glad I had the hindsight to know, at 4 the time, that I wasn’t going to be committed to more active learning, because I had already almost failed high school. Barely passed. Just saw no point. NR: Do you think your choice of education and/or career would be different if you were born in a previous generation? AT: I think it would. I was very lucky to be growing up in a, not only very loving environment and a loving family, but a very loving and accepting time period for who I was. I’m pretty sure if I was born maybe one generation back, half of the shit I did would just not have gone without some repercussions. Oh, I’m sure I would have faced scrutiny and embarrassment and, “Oh, well, you have to do what I say because you have no control.” I’m sure what I would be doing and who I would be would be vastly different from who I am now. Oh, absolutely. NR: Was you accepting your true self, did that change how you perceive the world? AT: I’m not sure if it did. I don’t think, really. It might have. I kind of have always viewed the world the same, which is, for better or for worse, a little indifferent. Like, I acknowledge that the world plays a role in my life and that I can play a role in the world but I try mainly to focus on me and what I’m trying to get done and accomplished, rather than fuss over everything that’s happening in the world. Naturally, you still have to be a part of it to make good decisions about what to do with yourself. But I’ve always just kind of been a little indifferent, aside from the people I hold close to me. Like, they are my world, essentially. NR: How did you first job compare to your mother’s and/or grandmother’s first job? AT: My first job was as a, I’ll say hostess, for a restaurant. And I’m actually... I’m not sure what my mother’s first job was, I believe she went straight from high school 5 into something like accounting, because now she does that for the government and such. And for my grandmother, on both sides, I actually... I’m not sure what their jobs were. I don’t really know much about my family’s previous generations. It’s always been harder to connect to them or talk to them, on a level other than superficial. I’m not saying like, trying to lecture me, but constantly pulling the focus to telling me something that I should be doing. Patronizing, yes. So it’s hard. NR: What are some of your motivations for your education or career? In this case, more career. AT: The motivations that I have right now are very, standing out on my own and being more independent, ‘cause for the longest time I’ve just gone from my home to someone else’s house to someone else’s house to a friend. I always try to contribute at least a little bit, like if can pay for groceries or like help with rent or pay a rent, you know, things like that. But I’ve never lived in a house, besides my home that grew up in, that I could call mine. It was someone else’s. So my main focus is to work on myself and become better for myself and to be more independent and to get my own place that I can call my own. My home. NR: So following on that: do you think that being a trans woman, that that makes your goal a little bit harder? AT: Hmm. I’m not sure if, for my goal specifically, it makes it a bit harder. I would that if, you know, with me as a person, I naturally come with a lot more challenges I would say. I’ve been pretty alright so far, I haven’t had to deal with a lot in that regard. But I would say, generally, for what I’m trying to accomplish, it wouldn’t 6 be extremely hard, as a trans woman, it would just be hard because I’ve been thrown into a position that I don’t have all the cards that I need. NR: As a woman, how do you define courage? AT: Self-motivation, bravery, and being able to know who you are and what you want. I feel like those are very important things. That way you have faith and courage. The sense that you know what you’re doing is the best, because it’s going to help you. Self-assurance, that was it. NR: What does the term “women’s work” mean to you? AT: All work. Because I feel like all work is for everyone. I feel like labelling things with a specific binary is... I just feel like it’s very, for lack of a better word, dumb. ‘Cause I feel like a lot of things are very interchangeable for everyone, but there’s a lot of things in our society that are very catered towards, “Oh, more men go into this than women,” and it’s more generally like, “If you’re a woman going into this you’re going to have a harder time,” or say, “It’s a more woman dominated job and men go in, you’re not going to do that great.” I’ll give such examples as like, hostesses, phone receptionists, telemarketers, sales people, makeup associates. More, I would say, woman dominated jobs where it would be harder for say like a cis-man. NR: So, for older generations including my mother, could you define the word “cis?” AT: Cis-gendered is like, the binary, like the male and female, I believe, yes. NR: Alright, so to stick with the LGBTQ theme we have going, do you feel like there’s a lot of support being in that community in the world today? 7 AT: I feel like I do. I feel like the world is definitely, it’s growing to be a more and more open and accepting place with each year that passes. It’s just those people who hang on to those old beliefs and refuse to let things die. “Would you rather be happy or would you rather be right?” They would rather be right than have everyone be happy. Because to be accepting is easy, it’s easy to be nice, but it’s also extremely easy to be mean, and if they were raised and taught on a belief that is strictly, “Yeah, you can be nice to these people, but these people we don’t like and we hate them and we think they should all go burn in Hell.” It’s very easy to fall into the trap of just getting stuck in your own ways. NR: Would you mind sharing some of your challenges you’ve faced since you’ve come out as a trans woman? AT: Yeah, not at all. I definitely find it very hard to date. Dating is a very like, I wouldn’t say risky game, but I definitely have to take some caution, because there are lot of people that I’ve personally met, who I’ve gone on dates with and talked to who don’t know what transgendered people are and they’re very confused and sometimes they get upset because they’re confused. Sometimes when I explain it to them I’ve even faced hostility. Not physical hostility thankfully, I’ve never had to deal with that, but definitely verbal hostility. I’ve been through the ringer on that. So dating is always kind of a gambit, because, who I can and can’t let know about certain things at certain times without knowing their stance on basically me as a person. They’re stance on if they should consider me a person. It’s scary. I’ve also definitely had some issues with body image, ‘cause I know that’s a very common thing in the transgendered community, is body image 8 because if you aren’t presenting for the gender, really, that you hope or that you want, it can be very challenged being misgendered in public. I know it happens to me at work a lot, because naturally I have a male body, I grow facial hair, I grow hair everywhere. And it’s very challenging to sort of do with the upkeep and to make myself more womanly when I don’t... have the physiology. ‘Cause I have a very boxy shape, I have a hard chin line, not round, facial hair, that whole thing. Yeah, it’s a struggle, but you know, you just kind of work through it. NR: How do you think women’s rights are going to change going forward? AT: It’s hard for me to say how I think some things, rather than how I want them. I personally think we still have a long way to go with women’s rights specifically, because with the whole abortion mess we have going on right now, it’s like people are still just trying to hammer in like, “We can control you, you have no say in your own body.” It’s like, come on. We’ve gotten a lot better, women being able to vote in the past was revolutionary. It was wonderful, it was great. Still working on that, you know, with all the rights coming in. I think most definitely, we’ve gotten better, but we have ways to go. I think that it can get better progressively as more of the older generations die out. I feel like if we have enough cohesiveness and support as a society as a whole together moving forward, it will all get better for everyone, not just cis-women or trans-women. Literally everyone. NR: How do you think you can change women’s rights for future generations? AT: Hmm. Personally, I don’t know. I don’t know how I can, I think that the best that I could help would be to offer my support wherever possible. The best way that I 9 could help personally is I think like, offering my support to the groups that are there to make bigger and better changes to the world. I haven’t done a whole lot of research and my mind is blanking on the specificity of some of those certain groups, but naturally offering up your support to petitions and making your voice heard in a collective, that way it can’t be ignored. Personally, that’s how I view I could help women’s rights advance. NR: How do you think you can change LGBT rights for future generations? AT: I would say just about in the same fashion, included going to events which they do have, like women’s rights for, I know, but for LGBTQIA+ specifically, definitely a lot. I would say a lot more events. In the same fashion, offering up your voice as a collective. Making sure you have all your needs met and you compromise, to solutions that work better for everyone and not just the certain group or just this certain group. NR: Can you define LGBTQIA+? AT: Oh. I’m forgetting the acronyms. I know the first part of it, but the QIA+, I’m kind of blanking on a bit. NR: I know the Q is queer. And I believe the A is asexual. AT: Yes. NR: I don’t know what the I is. AT: I believe that’s intersex. NR: Right, ok. So Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender... AT: Queer, Intersex, Asexual, plus. NR: So many different types. 10 AT: Absolutely. We love all of them. NR: How do you think women receiving the right to vote shaped or influenced, history, your community, and you personally? AT: Well, funny, we were just talking about that. I feel like it shaped everything to be more fair. Because with more people getting the right to vote, more people were able to share their opinions on things, and if you don’t have a majority ruling a certain thing, choosing a certain thing every time, then it’s more fair for everyone, because everyone has their voice heard. Even if one thing still wins out over the other, it was more fair? NR: What I’m trying to get to is women’s rights and gay rights activism back in the 1960s. If you had been able to do what they did, would you do the same thing? AT: I think I would. Because, I like to help. I think one of my main goals that I have— maybe not a goal, but one of the standards that I live by—is just the ability to help other people if they need it. And being able to stand up for yourself and help not only yourself but everyone who not only associate with, but may also call family, friends, loved ones, is amazing. NR: So, I’m trying to really pull up the LGBT and get more information on that one, but I don’t know what questions to ask. Is there any more stories you want to tell? AT: Specifically, I don’t think I have any that come to mind at the moment. Hmm. NR: Better yet, if we interview someone that’s of the LGBT community, do you have any questions to suggest to me that I could ask them? AT: That one, I might have to think on, but I definitely could probably get you a few that might give some good answers, definitely. 11 RB: Do you have any advice for older or younger women or LGBTQIA+ community that would help them along their way in life and know that it’s ok to be who you are? AT: I would say, my advice personally, what I try to do with everything in my life is to just stay open. Specifically being open to the opportunity of failure and having setbacks and not being who you are at this current moment, but aspiring to who you want to be when you want to be it. Setting goals to make sure you are keeping yourself on a path to end up where you can be the most ultra-version of yourself. Who is ultra-Omega you? Who is the best version of you? Once you figure out that and what you want from yourself and from the world around you, then you can start getting a better idea of how you can go about getting that and how you can help yourself to be better and to do better. RB: I feel like that applies not just to those two demographics, but to everyone. I feel like everyone needs a little bit a failure to realize where they’re trying to get to. AT: Oh yeah. NR: You have any more? AT: I would love to answer more. I love talking. NR: So going back to when you were coming out and figuring out who you were. Is there a specific moment when you knew that you were a transgender woman? AT: I think there wasn’t a specific point, it was kind of a build up. As I said I talked with my best friend in our English class near the end of our senior year and that’s when I kind of said it out loud to someone else, but those past few months of school where I was just thinking and thinking and thinking, “Who am I?” that it 12 really started to come together and then when I vocalized it, it became real. Once I started saying that and expressing that, it became who I was. The short answer is no. RB: So, speaking specifically to future trans individuals, what advice would you give to them, for them to come out and be who they want? AT: For future trans individuals, I would say, “Make sure you think on it a lot.” Because, you know, as people, we’re ever changing and ever growing and we learn new things about not only the world around us, but about ourselves, all of the time. And I would say, “Keep thinking on it.” Give it some real thought, maybe take time aside to be like, “OK, this is what I know about me as a person. How does this correlate to what I know from the outside?” And it doesn’t have to be like, you shut yourself off just to think about everything, you can still enjoy yourself and think, “Maybe I identify with this more, or I identify with this more.” I would definitely say also to be open, specifically for trans individuals, it is very hard. There’s a lot of issues with self-image, how other people view us, how the world treats us. I would just say, stay open and stay considerate. I’ve met many people who didn’t know how trans people where just because there were never told. They just wanted to know. I wouldn’t say they take that as a sign of prying unless you don’t want to share that information with someone else. It’s completely who you are spiritually, physically, mentally, sexually, is completely to you. If you don’t want to share that, you don’t have to. That’s your free will. But if you are willing to share that, just be open to people having questions or being confused, I would say it’s good to be open about it, because if someone doesn’t 13 know you can explain it to them and give them firsthand what you know and then help them have a better understanding. I would definitely also say, it can be challenging, but try not to scrutinize people, I’ll just give an example. I deal with a lot of misgendering. You know, sometimes it even happens with my close friends and my family. Now, my close friends and my family know who I am, what I am, what I love, and what I prefer to be called by. But sometimes they still slip up. And I feel like it would be unhelpful to them to scrutinize them for messing up my pronouns or maybe not completely following on a situation. If they have good intentions in their heart, I wouldn’t say it’s fair to make them the bad guy. Because then it can just create a distance between you two, where you feel like they aren’t respecting you and they feel like you aren’t giving them the leeway that they need to completely adjust with you. When you adjust, it’s not only really yourself, it’s your friends and your family as well. Because if they’ve known you since before you were you, it can be hard. NR: How different do you think your life would have been if you were born the way you wanted to be? AT: I would probably definitely want to kill myself when my period came around. Jokes aside, I feel like it would be pretty different. I’m not sure I would have the same friends or the same interests that I would if I was born a biological female rather than a transgendered female. I feel like I’m not even sure where I could possibly guess where my life would be if I was biological instead of transgendered. I just know that it would be completely different, because I know 14 there were a lot of things in my life that I was really only got into because of who I was at that moment. NR: Ok. So if you got to choose between the two, would you choose to be born a cis-female or would you choose to go through the story that you went through. AT: I have actually pondered this one. I feel like, I’ve told myself previously, if I could have my life change in no way except being born biologically female, I would want to do that, but then I started thinking, I wouldn’t have the experiences that I do now if I was, so it’s kind of a coin toss between the two. I think at this moment, currently, I’m happy that I was born as a biological male and then transitioned into a female. RB: To go back into education and when you didn’t know that you were a transgender woman yet, still as a gay man. Were there any setbacks with your academic career, or were you scrutinized because of that? AT: I actually, surprisingly, I was not scrutinized in almost any way, shape, or form during school as a gay man. Which I found to be personally surprising, even at the time, because I thankfully was never bullied, I had a lot of friends. It was probably due to my personality, which I found to be very outgoing and I just loved to talk to people and I was on the dance team, choir, the whole thing. Academics was still kind of an issue all throughout high school, you know, I would flip-flop sometimes, but not specifically because of who I was but because of how I was mentally. 15 NR: Where do you see yourself going in years to come as a transgender woman? Do you want to stay how you are or do you want surgeries or are comfortable how you are? AT: Ok. For the most part I feel like, right now, I’m comfortable with my body. I do, in the future, want to be financial stable enough to support getting surgery, like top surgery. I’ve also considered bottom surgery, that one is still like a work in progress, ‘cause I still have to do more research on that and how to safely deal with that. If I decide to go through with it, because it can be a dangerous progress. But in the years to come I definitely do see myself changing some aspects, but relatively just staying me. NR: Have you first considered doing like hormonal therapy? AT: Yeah, I have. I’ve actually tried to do that before very recently, I just unfortunately wasn’t financially stable enough to support something like that. It happens, all you can really do is, make sure you have good insurance. And that you have enough money. But yeah, that’s definitely something I’ve definitely very much looked into and want to start. NR: I have no idea how that works, will you explain how that works? AT: Hormonal replacement therapy is when... so for me, a trans woman, it would be taking basically the testosterone out of my body and replacing it with estrogen. So I would take like estrogen pills, or however they would deliver it into my body and that would slowly start to change my physiology. My hair would get thinner, my skin would get a bit softer, things like that. NR: Ok. 16 AT: Yeah. It’s not like super common knowledge, but if you know about it, you just kind of know. How I wish they would teach a course on that in class, though. Health and fitness, thank you. NR: Given our education system, how do you think they can improve health courses to better help, not just trans and LGBTQ communities, but women and men? AT: I feel like more in-depth and open conversations about like, sex and the human body. ‘Cause I feel like right now it’s very cut and dry, they don’t even get into sexuality. I have rarely seen classrooms go very deep and try to understand as a classroom, sexuality and the way that our human minds work. NR: Do you think having better content would help people of the LGBT community come out easier? AT: Absolutely, because if it’s more accepted common knowledge, it’s easier to speak about things. It’s all about being able to speak freely about who you are, what you are, what you want to talk about, the things that you’re interested in, you know, what you want to do. I feel like having more open conversation about that bring open a whole new world of possibility for people to just be who they are, because I know many people, like many straight men and women, many gay men and women, who… you know, for gay men and women it’s a bit different, but for straight men and women, they’re the “curious” people and the people who are just kind of teetering and don’t really know because no one talks about it. It would be easier for everyone to better communicate with each other. NR: In our society there’s this huge level of fear when comes to talking about anything on a sexual level— 17 AT: Very taboo. NR: Oh yeah. How do you think that we could improve upon that, because like you said, having the knowledge, the ability to talk about that, would make it easier for groups to come out. How do you think we could improve on that? AT: I personally think the best answer to many things that are just like taboo that people don’t want to talk about that I think need to be talked about is just the ability to be open minded. The ability to sit down and say, “Look, we’re having this conversation and it may be uncomfortable.” It may be something you don’t want to do. It is your choice to or to not participate in something like that, but I think if people let themselves be a bit more uncomfortable and let themselves have that conversation about sex, sexualities, everything like that, it would just be more eye-opening. And we could all get along a lot better, because Lord knows we’re at each other’s throats, all the time. NR: So basically what you’re saying is that these conversations need to happen at home? AT: Yeah, I think it would be good to have those in a family, those kinds of conversations. Where parents or a parent sits down with their child, their children, and discusses how they feel on things and it’s a back and forth conversation, where the children tell the parents what they’re thinking, the parents tell the children how they view everything. Without, with it being very subjective and objective and not forced view points, kind of smashing into each other, cause then it can just, it can create that wall of friction and then it’s like, “Oh, well, since you said such and such, what did you mean by that?” And it can 18 carry a lot of tension. So very objective, open-minded conversations within the family, I think would be very helpful. NR: Did your family ever do that with you or your brother? AT: No. NR: Do you wish they had? AT: I really do. I really wish they had kind of sat me down and talked with me about the different ways people live their lives, like explaining the LGBT+ community as a younger child probably would have helped me understand who I am a lot faster. Because I have always been pretty much me from a certain age, but I thought I was a different person, since what I only say was, “There’s straight people and there’s gay people.” And that was it. I didn’t know there was a whole other place where I could be accepted as something completely different that I didn’t know that I was. NR: In addition to the conversation in the home, do you feel like there should be an introductory course on the LGBTQ community, just like a basic understanding of each of the different types within health classes? AT: I think that would be very helpful. You know, I feel like it would be, not only better to see that kind of representation in the education system, but it would be better for children and people who aren’t informed, because I think that class should be open to everyone, not exclusively children. You know, take a pre-LGBT course at your local high school please. Like, I feel like that would just be astounding. NR: Definitely. You mentioned before, there’s a lot of people that don’t know. 19 AT: Genuinely don’t know. They’ve gone their entire lives without knowing that kind of information. Because they were just never, it was never talked about, it was never taught, it was taboo. So I feel like that could be just... it would just be good. I feel like that would be good. Of course that naturally comes with resistance, because... it will. NR: Oh, definitely. AT: But you do what you can. NR: Always. RB: I have one last question, actually. So what’s some advice that you would give the older generation who don’t really understand what the LGBTQ+ community is or don’t understand that women can actually do what they want to do? AT: I would say, to sit down and talk with someone who is either a woman form this day and age or someone from the LGBT+, or the LGBTQ+ community, and just have an honest, open conversation about your view points, their view points, and how to come to a mutual understanding of each other. Like, ok, it was naturally the time that they lived in and the time and that we live in is vastly different. We all know this. But some people don’t like to let go of the past and some people are very headstrong of the future and don’t like to acknowledge the past and it would be better for the older and younger generations to come together and say, “Listen, I understand you and where you’re coming from. I understand that we live in completely different worlds, or we’ve lived in two completely different worlds, but here’s how we can take our combined knowledge, and come together 20 to understand ourselves.” And to just treat each other better because... Jesus Christ. I hate ragging on old people but they make it something. NR: Alright. So I think that was awesome. RB: Do you have any last thoughts? AT: Stay in school, eat your vegetables.