Oral History Program Bev Dalley Interviewed by Sarah Langsdon 6 September 2019 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Bev Dalley Interviewed by Sarah Langsdon 6 September 2019 Copyright © 2022 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Beyond Suffrage Project was initiated to examine the impact women have had on northern Utah. Weber State University explored and documented women past and present who have influenced the history of the community, the development of education, and are bringing the area forward for the next generation. The project looked at how the 19th Amendment gave women a voice and representation, and was the catalyst for the way women became involved in the progress of the local area. The project examines the 50 years (1870-1920) before the amendment, the decades to follow and how women are making history today. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Dalley, Bev, an oral history by Sarah Langsdon, 6 September 2019, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Beverly H. Dalley 6 September 2019 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Beverly Dalley, conducted on September 6, 2019, in her home, by Sarah Langsdon. In this interview, Beverly discusses her life, her memories, and the impact of the 19th Amendment. Warren Dalley, Beverly’s son, is also present during this interview. SL: This is Sarah Langsdon and I am here interviewing Bev Dalley… Dalley. BD: Dalley SL: Sorry I always do that. BD: It’s okay SL: It is Septermber 6, 2019 about noon. Her son Warren is joining us as well. Well I want to thank both of you for allowing us to come into your home and gather your stories. So Bev we are going to start at the beginning, so we’ll start with where and when you were born? WD: Okay BD: Okay WD: So, we actually wrote answers to all those questions. SL: Oh perfect! WD: We can give you a copy of this to if you would like with the pictures and so forth. SL: Yeah 2 BD: Okay, I was born in Pleasant Grove, Utah. That’s a little town between here and Provo and—and July 13, 1923. SL: Okay BD: And I lived there for about three years and we moved up to Salt Lake. SL: Alright, are you an only child or do you have siblings? BD: I have siblings, I have—I have four siblings. SL: Okay BD: One son and four daughters. SL: So with your siblings where do you fall in birth order? Are you… BD: For me? SL: Yes BD: I was number four. SL: Oh, so you were the baby. WD: [To Beverly] There’s some more water right there mom. [We’ve got pictures of mom’s family and then pictures of the children. SL: Of the children okay WD: So that’s there as well. SL: Okay, so you were the baby of the family. BD: No, I had a younger brother. 3 SL: Oh okay. BD: Did I tell you there were five of us. SL: Five of you, I think you did say you have four siblings. So what was your dads name and what did he do for a living? BD: My father was Junius John Hayes, that’s J-U-N-I-U-S and he was a professor at the Weber… at the University of Utah for 20 years. SL: Oh wow BD: And… taught mathematics and astronomy. SL: Okay, interesting. So was your mom a stay at home mom or did she work as well. BD: Oh, she was a stay at home mom that was what women did when… SL: In that… BD: She took care of us and that was her job. SL: And what was your mom’s name? BD: Genevieve Spilsbury, she was English and came over from England. Her grandparents came over from England and everybody followed. They were a part of the trail of pioneers that came to Utah. SL: So you spent most of your life in Salt Lake growing up? BD: Yes. 4 SL: So, what was it like being a little girl growing up in Salt Lake in the late 20’s early 30’s? BD: Well it was, we just did what our parents told us to do and we went to school and church and all those things. SL: Okay BD: I took piano lessons, I guess you could put that in. SL: Alright, did you enjoy piano lessons? BD: Oh yes, yes, I loved that. SL: As a little girl was there someone that you really looked up to or admired? BD: Oh I really loved to go places with my dad. He let me get in the car when he had to do errands. And when he went off on some of his nature explorations well I sometimes I went with him. WD: You also mentioned your grandmothers. BD: Oh yes, my grandmothers were wonderful. They were my… I had two grandmothers one Spilsbury and Hayes and, and I loved to visit them because they like most grandmothers are happy to see their grandchildren and I always felt welcome there. SL: And so I assume your grandmothers were stay at home mom’s as well. BD: Yes, they were stay at home women. SL: Where did you graduate from high school? 5 BD: I graduated from East high school in Salt Lake City and that was in 19… I can’t remember. WD: Well you went to, you went to University of Utah just as they were drafting the soldiers into the war. So, you finished just right before the war. BD: So that would be 19… WD: Right before the war started—World War II. SL: So 1940… BD: And the state had a said that women… that high schools could go for three years rather than two if they wanted too at that time. SL: Okay BD: And I don’t know the reason for that. But my best girlfriend and I chose to go for the three years. SL: Okay so through East High. WD: Well they’re actually as I recall it shortening the high school because of the war, I think that was the reason but anyway. SL: To try and get… BD: They didn’t shorten high school they extended it. So, we had three years of high school instead of two. SL: So, after you went to the University of Utah for your college education. Was pursuing and education something that your family encouraged or…? 6 BD: Oh yes because my father was a teacher, professor, so it was just natural to think about going the way he went. And my brothers they got caught up in the Vietnam War so they didn’t follow their dad right away. SL: Cause they we’re called up during the World War II. WD: And then you have also, you could mention Nanna Rose graduating with high marks from—from BYU and also Isaac John Hayes teaching in… a in a… BD: Yes, my father’s mother was, had been a teacher when she was younger. And her husband died fairly early at I think my father was about five years old when he died. SL: So yeah really early. BD: And so… my father never really had much of a time with his own father. SL: Yeah. So then did your grandmother go back to teaching being a widow or did she find another way? BD: She was a widower in a little Mormon town and… she did a number of things. I think for a time she sold books, she did everything she could to make sure she was able to get her boys, her three boys, into BYU. Cause she herself had gone to BYU when she was younger. SL: Yeah BD: And so she wanted her children to have that kind of education and I guess that’s why my father chose that too. SL: Right 7 WD: And mother’s grandfather Isaac John Hayes was called by Karl G. Maeser to help start an academy in Mexico in the old, old days… BD: I didn’t think about that. WD: And this was, he died of typhoid there and then… SL: Oh WD: And then the colony that they had in Mexico, this was during the Mexican I guess Mexican revolution, and Poncho Villa was very active and so they had to leave Mexico. BD: Come back here WD: You know one step ahead of Poncho Villa’s troops. SL: So, education runs very deep in your family. BD: Yeah, correct. SL: So, when you went to college what was your, what did you decide to pursue as your studies? BD: Well I was attracted by biology. SL: Okay BD: And after I finished my years and graduated I stayed on and worked for some of the professors. And the one I enjoyed the most I think was the genetics professor, because I had just started genetics as a special field at the University 8 at that time. And so, I got to be in on that and I worked for the genetics lab for a couple of years before I left to get married. SL: Were there a lot of women that were in the biology, genetics field when you were studying? Or where you one of a handful? BD: Well it was about even I think at that time. SL: Was it really? BD: Yeah SL: That’s interesting WD: Well you mentioned the one time that your friend Mary Lou was the first women to enter the medical school, was she? Or the only woman in her class at that time. BD: Well she was a brilliant young woman. She was the only girl in her class at the medical school when they had that medical school. And… so she of course stood out amongst all those men and we were good friends all through college. SL: Yeah, I could imagine in those sciences during World War 2 probably women weren’t really encouraged to study. WD: Different world. SL: Yeah, those that it was… BD: Yeah SL: So, it’s interesting that you say you remembered about fifty-fifty. 9 BD: I’d say so. SL: So, when you graduated what career did you decide to pursue? BD: Well I had graduated by then and I got married shortly after so I didn’t look for a job in Salt Lake. My husband was a graduate in medical school and we went back. WD: You travelled quite a bit… BD: The name of the state that I was… WD: Well you went back to I think Schenectady, New York for a while. And then you were in South Dakota and Michigan Ann Arbor, Michigan I was born there. BD: Oh, we went to Michigan, I forgot where we went first but… WD: It may have been Ann Arbor, Michigan. BD: He first had to finish his graduate work there, you know the grades that you go through, at when you’re trying to become a professional. We lived in Michigan first and it was… what was it called I can’t remember. WD: Well, Ann Arbor. BD: It was next to Ann Arbor. WD: Oh, it was Ypsilanti. BD: Ypsilanti SL: That’s where the University is. 10 BD: You heard that. SL: Yes, yes. BD: So, we lived in Ypsilanti for a couple of years then we came back to Utah. And he’s, was a practiced physician her in Utah for several years until his death. SL: So, when, so I assume you met your husband at the U while he was in medical school and you were in… BD: That’s right SL: Biology plus your best friend was also in med school. BD: That’s right and in fact it was interesting that when—when they were assigned their seats, the teacher put her in the same group as my husband, well the man that became my husband, and they became good friends professionally and… and so we were all, we were kind of a threesome for about three years. We just all, you know spent time together cause we all liked the same thing. SL: Right BD: Yeah, her name was Mary Lou Churner and she became a doctor too after she graduated. SL: So, I have a question. Since you were interested in biology and the medical, did you not want to pursue a medical degree? BD: It wasn’t that I didn’t want to it was that I was getting married. SL: Okay 11 BD: So, my attention was on something else. SL: Was on other things I understand that tends to happen. So, what was your husband’s name, just so we get it on the record? BD: Wallace SL: Wallace BD: Claude Wallace Dalley. SL: Dalley. And so did he have a specialty in…? BD: Psychiatry. SL: Psychiatry okay, interesting. BD: But he helped start the clinic here in, for the for the poor people. WD: It was called PAAG I forgot the acronym. It was a part of the mental health system in Weber County. SL: Yes, I have… and I don’t remember what it stands for but I have heard of PAAG. BD: He a he helped start that and so because, interestingly enough before that there had been a mental health center, or group up here but as it was told to me, one of the people that was living at that time said that, they said that they felt that people didn’t really need to have mental health care. It was wasn’t necessary that it was just sort of a crutch that some people wanted. And so, but my husband felt differently and later on he helped start the one that is down here on… what’s, what’s the name? 12 WD: I don’t know the address BD: The main street, main SL: Monroe? BD: No, what’s the…? WD: 25th street? Washington? BD: Washington yes. And he had a very fine young man that was interested in the same thing so he kind of fathered him along the way. And then the two of them worked very hard to get the one started up here. And he worked up here for many years before he passed away. SL: So, I assume he, once he finished his residency and you guys moved back to Utah, did you guys move to Salt Lake or to Ogden? BD: Let’s see we didn’t, he started in, we lived in Provo after we got from Michigan to Provo. SL: Okay WD: Well you came to Salt Lake to the VA. Dad worked at the VA. BD: Oh, that’s right we worked at VA to and, and then we went to Ogden when they got the mental health center started up here. So that’s why we moved to Ogden. So, we’ve been here ever since. WD: Since 1970. 13 SL: Okay since 1970. So, when you moved back to Utah did you have children? Did I hear that Warren was born in Michigan? BD: Yes, yes, he was our first child and I think we lived there for about two years and then we came back to Utah. I guess we just felt Utah was our real home or something. SL: Yeah, makes sense. BD: And cause his, he was from Idaho and his family was from Idaho, and mine from… what was the name of the town? WD: Well your mother grew up in Toquerville and you grew up in Pleasant Grove. BD: But I’m thinking of my father’s family. WD: Well Pleasant Grove was for Grandpa. BD: Pleasant Grove yeah, a little town where they grew lots of strawberries and… and so after, I was born in, I was number four in my family and so after I was born my father came up to Salt Lake to get his degree in engineering and, what was the other thing? And anyway, that was what he liked. SL: Yeah BD: And so, he went to school up here and got his degree eventually and he of course that was near the avenues in Salt Lake if you are familiar with that. And my mother meanwhile had moved up from, what’s that little town? WD: Toquerville, Toquerville 14 BD: Is it Toquerville? WD: Yup BD: Okay Toquerville and her folks were farmers down there, they were pioneer farmers. And so, then they I guess they felt that they didn’t want to see a house wife farm girl be her future. So, they let her come up to Salt Lake and live with her richer relatives who lived on the avenues. So, with her, both of them living on the avenues my father and my mother at different times. I guess sometimes they must have met. SL: Yeah you would think. BD: And got acquainted, although we never did hear how they met. SL: Oh BD: Actually, it was not a secret it’s just you know we never thought about asking. SL: Asking that question of how your parents met. WD: Well there’s a one little vineta on that subject of the family encouraging education. My grandmother, mom’s mother, came to Salt Lake her mother sent her to Salt Lake to get an education so she could marry an educated man which turned out to be my grandfather. SL: Okay BD: I think that is what was in the back of her mind. 15 SL: So, she didn’t marry a farmer and stay on the… there is nothing wrong with being a farmer’s wife. BD: Nothing wrong with being a farmer. And my husband’s family are farmers from Idaho so we had those things in common and other things that were a little more academic. SL: Okay. So, is Warren and only child? No BD: No, I have five children myself. He’s the oldest. WD: Got a picture in there too. SL: Of the kids great BD: And yeah, I had five children, same as my parents. SL: So how many boys, how many girls? BD: When they were born there where two boys and three girls. SL: So, two boys and three girls okay. So, as you now you’re living here in Utah raising five children did you go back to work or did you just…? BD: No, I never did go back to work it seems like I was, got busy in the community organizations and I liked that and so I spent a lot of time in those. SL: Okay, alright so then let’s talk about some of the community organizations you got involved in. BD: Well I started out with the girl scouts up here in Ogden after we moved from Provo up to Ogden, when my husband started the clinic down in Ogden. 16 WD: We made a whole list of the things that she’s been involved in. SL: Okay great. WD: A whole page, we can provide you with a copy of that too if you would like. SL: Yeah, yeah that would be great. So, you were involved with the girl scouts. BD: Girl scouts yes, and from that, we went to a group called—I forgot what the name was because my memories not good, but WD: Well this pretty much covers it from 1970 all the way up to…Mother got an award, that’s this award right here, it was a silver bowl award from the, I believe it was the YCC people. BD: I have some friends that, oh it was I joined the YWCA after the girl scouts. SL: Okay BD: And that stands for Young Women’s… SL: Christian Association BD: Yeah, and so from there I extended my acquaintances in the work area to the YWCA and I was also a member of the ACLU. WD: You were on the board of directors at one point. SL: Of the ACLU? WD: Mhm BD: American Civil Liberties Union. I love that kind of work too. 17 WD: And she was on the board of the YCC at one point. BD: And during the years that we were concerned with the passage of the equal rights amendment there was an ERA group that started and I belonged to that. I joined everything I could find. WD: We got a whole, this whole thing and at the right time I can show it to you, could it be now? SL: Yeah WD: This right here is something that mom very carefully put together and this is a binder and it’s Weber County Campaign for the ERA compiled by my mother. And this was done on the ERA campaign that was between 1973 and 1975 and this is a blow by blow run down of everything that happened. And then why don’t we go through a few of these papers and talk a little bit about it, do you want to do that? BD: Well when she, when she wants to know I will tell her a little bit about it. WD: So, I’ll just tell you as much as you want to know, but a… SL: Yeah, no WD: But my mother was the head of the Weber county, I want to get the exact name of it. Yeah, this is a picture of my mother from October 23, of 1974 and the key point there is that she was the Chairman of the Weber County equal rights amendment coalition, for the passage of the ERA in Weber County. And that’s an article from the paper that… 18 BD: Everybody was interested WD: And she became involved in it right after 1973. There were two attempts to pass the ERA in Utah, first was in ‘73 and the second was in ’75. BD: I remember we were very busy looking at women’s rights. SL: Yes WD: So, the… BD: Fortunately, my husband felt the same, he was… SL: That’s always nice. WD: In the book that my mother put together, just in summary, in ’73 there was a group HOT DOG which was Humanitarians Opposed to Degrading our Girls. BD: I like that. WD: And that was a group that was started through the John Burt society and they decided that they wanted to oppose the first attempted of passage of the ERA in Utah. SL: Okay WD: And this whole, this describes, this tells all about that, they were able to defeat it. SL: In ’73 WD: In ’73 then they tried again and my mother did a whole lot of things, wrote letters to the congressmen. She even sent out a letter to Betty Ford who was the first lady at the time. And then there’s letters to the editors and then the… Now there 19 was a, you probably heard about it but there was an article in the church news, and this is the article right here. And this article appeared on January 11, 1975 which was about six weeks or five weeks before the second attempt to pass the ERA in Utah. And this article criticized the ERA and because it was published in the church news it said the amendment was “Unnecessary, uncertain, and undesirable,” those are the words. And as far as we know this was unsigned but later on we believe that the person who authored the article was Mark Peterson. This is an article about Mark Peterson, we believe that he was the person who was are are-are authored it or was substantially apart of getting it. SL: Apart of getting it published. WD: Yeah, so what we have here is, let me show you this. So my mother wrote an article special to the tribune saying that “Mrs. Dalley said that the LDS members of the coalition had checked with their immediate church leaders and were told that no signed directive from the first presidency had been issued at the time of this article” and mother said “It’s significant that no person holding the priesthood was quoted in the editorial and no announcement had been made on the ERA at any church meetings.” But despite this modest attempt to provide another side to that it was defeated. And mother, this is a picture of Gaye Littleton at the time. BD: Have you met Gaye? SL: Yes, we interviewed Gaye and she wanted we interviewed you. WD: And that was an article that was put in the paper of Gaye Littleton. This was just about two weeks before the vote. 20 BD: Gaye was a natural leader and so many of the organizations I belonged to it. WD: And it was Gaye Littleton that wrote this nomination statement for mother for this award. I’ll just show you a couple more—two more pages and then I won’t go into too much more detail SL: Okay WD: But so, this was an article by Gaye Littleton and then this was mothers for the ERA, a list of mothers, but this is a letter that mother write to Betty Ford at the time and then. BD: There’s an Ogden one right there. WD: Yes, and there was article after article that she saved. This right here was the debate, this is a picture of the debate in the Capital on the ERA in ’75. SL: Wow. BD: And this is the same thing SL: Yeah just a close up shot. WD: I think this was conducted, I think the debate was on the day before the vote, I forget if the debate was on the day before or the day of the vote. This is right here the vigil that was conducted the night before in Salt Lake City on the ERA. BK: That’s really cool. WD: And then I will show you two more articles. So, then the and mother kept this binder carefully, you know she put all this together. And this was an article 21 showing the defeat of the ERA and it was defeated on “Equal Rights Amendment suffers defeat amid emotional voting.” It was on the 18th and this was published on the 19th. SL: Of February WD: Of February 1975, and then two more, two more article. This was the roll call for what’s it worth for who voted and how they voted. As you can see my mother, this is my mothers got much more, but I’m only going to show you two more things. BD: If you want to. SL: Okay BD: Because the lack of my time. WD: And the last one I want to show you is kind of sad but I think it’s indicative of the whole thing. This was the mood among the supporters of the ERA in Utah, this cartoon pretty much sums it up right there. And so, in your last question in the questionnaire that we got, well it asks what do you think women receiving the right to vote, or how do you think women receiving the right to vote has shaped or influenced history, your community and you personally? Mother spent a large part of her life trying to go from the passage of the 19th amendment in 1920 the first establishment for the right to vote. Well there were early in Utah women had the right to. SL: Yeah right, yes 22 WD: But BD: Yes, they had it but then they had to give it up. WD: We have a copy of the Constitution of the state of Utah from 1959, but she spent a lot of her life trying to get the ERA passed up until present day. BD: Probably when we were working on that at that time. WD: So, we thought you might enjoy seeing those. SL: Yeah, so okay let’s jump back a little bit cause sense you mentioned Gaye Littleton. Did you first meet Gaye when you joined the YWCA? BD: Yes, she was already president of it at that time I think. And she and Helen Young were very key in keeping that going. Gaye was a natural leader and she, she and I got a long really well, we liked to work together. SL: What kind of things was the YWCA involved in, in Ogden? BD: Mostly the Equal Rights Amendment but they had been involved in things, well the words are Young Women’s, and so there was a big beautiful old home there that had belonged to the man that invented the guns, I forget his name. WD: Is it Eccles? SL: No, it’s John Browning. WD: Oh Browning. SL: Yes, the Browning house. 23 BD: His home, his home is still down there on… And so then it was apparently sold after a while and after that we kept the building going for a while, the women did. SL: Yeah WD: It’s a couple of things, I would like to read a couple of sentences out of this quickly that Gaye Littleton wrote for this nomination for mother for this silver bowl award. This was written in ’95 it says “In 1977 Beverly helped organize a rape crisis program for the Y, helped mobilize community resources to provide emergency assistance for victims of rape in the Ogden area, and then over the past 18 years.” This was written in ’95 “Over 1,800 victims of rape have been helped with recovery. She helped organize the Y’s women’s crisis center at the time helping about 12,000 victims of domestic violence in Ogden. She was the Y’s president of the board of directors in ’79.” And then down here “In 1981 she organized the friends of the Y’s trust and helped purchase the property for a new building.” BD: Yeah that’s right. WD: “For the YCC” I think that’s where the building is located now. BD: We occupied it. WD: And then the last point here, and she was a volunteer at the front desk for many years, “In 1992 Beverly organized a comity of medical stake holders in the community and implemented a much needed volunteer medical clinical for bettered and homeless women and their children at the YCC. In the first year of operation over 550 women and children received needed medical attention and 24 the center operated one day a week and was staffed by medical volunteers.” So that’s just part of why – that’s part of why they gave her this bowl. SL: That award. WD: Yeah SL: She did amazing things at the YCC. BD: Yes, their very generous. So where did we leave off then? Anything else you need to know. WD: Well there’s a couple of additional things very quickly. This also mentions “In ’74 she joined the newly organized Ogden-Weber league of women voters and chaired the league of women voters’ title 9 and text book survey comity to study biased in text books.” And it was actually… BD: That’s right we… WD: At the time, do you want to tell her about Amber getting into the shop class back when she was in high school? BD: Oh that, well at that time the children’s school were separated into different groups and usually they were separated by sex, you know the boys took woodworking and things like that, the women took cooking. And so, when the change began or theurge for change to have women take a greater part in the life of the community. Amber wanted, was in college just starting there and she wanted to take a class, a woodworking class? WD: In high school 25 BD: It was high school yeah, and she wasn’t allowed to take it, she was re-re-refused. So, this was when things were really beginning to format for the women, and so I knew a woman but… people what do you call it? WD: On a school board or congress or Utah congress. Who was it did you talk to? BD: It was a member of the… WD: Legislature? BD: Legislature, I can’t remember his name now but I complained to him about this and well and behold the next day she was allowed to enter the class. WD: That’s just the difference. Back in those day’s you literally had to go to your legislature to get your daughter into shop class. SL: Yeah BD: Well anyway that’s what happened here and so she has done very well in school… WD: And she’s an engineer, she has worked for U.S steel for like thirty years. SL: Oh, there you go. BD: Yes, yes, she’s an engineer. WD: And Amber’s specialty was that she would inspect blast furnaces. So, there’s this little short lady about 5 foot 4 with a helmet inspecting blast furnaces and they would fly her around to different parts of the world to inspect blast furnaces for U.S steel. 26 BD: Yeah, she lived here until recently when she had her own place, but yeah, she’s very, very capable. WD: And then do you want to tell them about the, that also mom helped to establish the scholarship for, a diversity scholarship in mathematics at the U. BD: Oh, this was more recent the yes. My father had passed away by then, but he taught mathematics and astronomy for 20 years at the University of Utah and…what did I start to say? WD: Well you, I mean… BD: What was I thinking? WD: At one time, well one of the reasons you started that scholarship was because at one time there really were not very many women in that. BD: Oh, that was, that’s true that’s perfectly true. There were very few women that got scholarships at that time and my father had recently died and he was a very generous type person and I’m sure that he would be happy to know that I’m— that I was working for women. So, I wanted to honor my father for all his years of being a teacher and so I proposed that we worked to get a scholarship started, so we did. And it’s the Junius J. Hayes scholarship of mathematics. WD: Diversity scholarship in mathematics at the U. BD: Yeah to honor the diversity of women. WD: And mom’s gotten some very nice letters from recipients of that. SL: I bet 27 BD: Yeah. SL: So, what made you decide to get involved in the equal rights amendment issue? BD: The fact that I’m a woman and although I was happily married and wasn’t suffering or anything like that I could tell that from what I read, because I read a lot, and things were kind of one sided in our society and women came out on the short end most of the time. So that was that I wanted to make things more equal. SL: Did you experience some push back being an LDS woman going after the ERA? BD: I’m, not personally but I know that I was one of the groups that was on the – that side of the issue and the church was on this side of the issue. WD: This right here is National Organization of Women courageous action, so there was a little, there was an element of courage I think. SL: Yes, I think most definitely. BD: A lot of women were working on that. [Coughing] sorry I got this… SL: That’s okay WD: Do you want some more hot water mom? BD: I still have some, thanks. SL: You can take a drink that’s alright. So how did you feel after the ERA amendment was defeated in Utah? BD: Oh, I felt very bad about that because we worked quite hard and tried to work with the women’s organization in Weber State because they had a women’s 28 organization for the young women. And we had, even had a conference up there at one point to promote the ERA and still it didn’t get passed. So, we just thought “Well we’ll just have to keep going.” SL: Right BD: “Till we get it” because that’s what the early women did, you know their Mormon early Mormon women were very active in certain things and so especially seeing that people had things more evenly proportioned. So that’s what motivated me anyway I guess you could say. SL: Did you have any chance to be part of the movement on a more national front, or where you mostly focused here in Utah? BD: Well I did get to a national convention in 19… WD: Well you were, you attended a, there was a Democratic convention in Chicago. BD: Okay yeah WD: When Major Daily was there when a lot of the students got beaten up. It was on TV at the time, mother was there. You were a delegate at several conventions I think. BD: Oh, two one of them I was a full delegate and the other one I was an alternate delegate. But I wanted to do as much as I could to be on the side of the, on the right side of history, so that’s what I thought. SL: So how did you then get involved with the League of Women Voters? BD: Oh, that was through Gaye Littleton after I moved up to Ogden from Provo. 29 SL: Okay BD: She was president of the YWCA and I wanted to join a group that I would, felt comfortable with so I joined the YWCA and that started a whole trend of things that the fight for the ERA when that issue came up. SL: Okay. BD: And that’s how it all really started up here. SL: Yeah, and so did you join League of Women Voters after the ERA movement in the ‘70s or was it…? BD: No, it was, time wise it came up first. SL: It came, okay the League of Women Voters came up first. BD: And that spread out into all sorts of things try to get women. WD: It was in ’74 that you joined the League of Women Voters. BD: Was it? SL: Oh, right in the middle of it. WD: And in ’73 she was a charter member of the newly organized Utah women’s political caucus. BD: Oh yeah, the women’s political caucus that was an outgrowth of all of women’s issues. 30 SL: So, where you, when you talk about women’s issues where you involved in other issues that affected women other than the equal rights? You know like pay, abortion. BD: Oh, I guess… SL: Was that kind of all encompassed within. BD: Women’s rights to have an abortion if they wanted one. Things like that there were several that came out but I don’t… SL: But you don’t remember. BD: I don’t remember all of them. SL: Okay that’s fine. So, how did you balance your responsibility’s between being this political activist and a mother? BD: Oh, I just did it. The children were getting older by then and kind of more self-sustaining. So, I had an amount of three times that I could get that way and that’s where I wanted to use it. SL: Did you, were your daughters involved in the equal rights movement? BD: Well no, all my children flew the nest as soon as they graduated from the University, that is all went up here at Weber. And they all went to a different state. SL: Okay BD: And they lived there for many, many years. 31 WD: Well there’s a little paragraph here written by Gaye Littleton, just very short. SL: Yeah WD: This was in the nomination for this award. The question on the nomination form was “What unusual problems or challenges as the nominee for this award overcome in his or her volunteer services, and how has it affected his or her life?” And the answer, this is from Gaye Littleton, “Beverly has truly given her services to better her community, volunteering in all areas over 40 hours a week at the same time supporting her husband Dr. C. Wallace Dalley and raising 5 children. It has been her goal over the years to make a difference and to ensure her children and others are able to reach their potential and that we all live in a community that cares. When other volunteers give up the cause or quite Beverly would continue even if it meant staying up all night.” So that gives you some idea. SL: Yes BD: That’s a very generous description of I did, but my heart was in it. And I was very disappointed when it didn’t pass, but I felt that sooner or later it would and so we just kept at it and eventually it happened. SL: Almost BD: Almost SL: I think we got one more state to ratify. BD: Yes, just one more state. 32 SL: One more state and then it will finally become an amendment. BD: Somebody will try to stop it. SL: Yeah BD: You can be sure of that. SL: You would hope not in 2019, but who know. So, you mentioned your husband was completely on board with equal rights amendment. BD: Yes, he was. SL: And everything as well so I think that, that probably made it easier for you to do it. BD: Yeah, yes, he supported it and that whole idea was just his philosophy. So about that, I guess that’s why we got married. SL: Yeah BD: Because we looked at the world about the same way. SL: Same way, well so then this kind of goes a little bit into this next question, how do you define the term “women’s work”? BD: Oh that. Well at the time I was involved, doing women’s work which at the time was mostly just housekeeping and taking care of the children. Seeing that they had what they needed and being sure that they behaved themselves and things like that. Like many other women that was just what we did all day. 33 SL: Did you think the equal rights amendment changed your view on “women’s work” at all or do you still view it as…? BD: No, it didn’t change. That’s what I always thought and worked around. Gaye Littleton is, she’s just a natural leader and she often started things going and then the rest of us would pile on and make it happen. Like for the building that’s down there on… SL: Adams? BD: Adams Avenue, 2261 Adams Avenue. She was the one who made the contact with the architect and helped to, she had friends that are well off that she contacted and they donated. And she just worked all the time for that and so it eventually we gathered enough money to build the building. SL: Yeah BD: And we were so excited because you know up until that time it seemed like we had a hard time finding a place to meet you know. You want to have a group and “Where should we meet your house or mine” that kind of thing. And now we had our own place and so that was a high point, I should have mentioned that earlier. SL: That’s okay BD: And Gaye was the one who really pushed that to make it happen. WD: This is an article, mother was involved in a meeting in 1970 at the University of Utah where they invited Gloria Steinem and that’s a picture of her. BD: Oh yes Gloria she was certainly pulling our rein. 34 WD: And then mother was giving, either giving an award or saying something on stage, on the same stage as Gloria Steinem at the University of Utah. SL: Oh, so you got to meet Gloria Steinem. BD: Yes, she came to the University of Utah and spoke at one of our ERA meetings. SL: Interesting BD: And of course, we all adored her cause she was, all the good stuff. SL: Yeah BD: And… WD: And Bella Abzug too wasn’t it. BD: Yes, Bella Abzug came too. SL: Yeah Bella came to Weber. BD: Yes, yes, she did SL: I just found photographs of here at Weber State when she came. BD: You bet. SL: That was kind of an amazing little thing. BD: That’s right. SL: Did Betty Friedan ever come to Ogden or Utah? BD: Yes, I was just about to say that one of our conventions to promote the ERA, I think that was the purpose of it, she came and of course being a beauty queen 35 she got a lot of publicity which helped out all of us and I had recently been elected to an ERA group and so I was allowed to make a little thank you speech up there and so I did. And I remember she put her arm around my waist. WD: That was Gloria Steinem BD: I felt so honored cause she was working so hard. SL: Gloria Steinem BD: And had some much ridicule, you know. I think she just had a mother and not a father, but anyway she’s a great lady. SL: Where there a lot of women in Utah involved in the pro ERA camp or do you know? I’m just interested to see how supported it was here. BD: Yes, yes and no. The ones that were LDS tended to be anti because naturally they follow the directions of the leaders and… and the others of us just felt it was the right way to go. And so, we pushed of it, in fact one of the, one time the young women at Weber who had their own organization were invited Bella Abzug to come out and be their speaker, because she was the forthright woman. And so she came out and unfortunately the first day she got here there was a, something in the paper about some man had pulled on a gun on her, or something like that. And I never did find out for sure if that really happened or if that was just an attempt some crazy person decided to pull off. But she, but we had some fliers that we made up and put in these boxes around for people to pick up so that they could see all the benefits that they would get if we just pass the equal rights amendment. 36 WD: And that was up at Weber. BD: That was up at Weber when Bella was the invited speaker. And so, she came and there was a lot of fussing about her “big hats” that she wore and she was ridiculed. Which was kind of really unfair to treat women like that, was another reason why ERA was important. And so, she didn’t let that deter her, she stayed and we gave her a luncheon and she made a speech and she went ahead and gave her talk just as if nothing had gone wrong. And so, we’ve always liked Bella, and she worked closely with Gloria… SL: Yes BD: Too, they were friends. So, time went on and I don’t know when and if we’ll ever get the equal rights amendment but I’m sure we will. SL: Yeah BD: It’s just a matter of time. SL: Right BD: Because people’s attitudes and thinking change over time and right now you can see by all the number of women that are running for president, times have really changed so I have no doubt that this will happen. SL: Did you ever have any political aspirations? BD: No. SL: No 37 BD: Not really, I liked to be in charge of somethings, but and help make them happen, but that was the satisfaction that I got. SL: So more of the behind the scenes than in front of the camera. WD: You were asking about the support of the ERA in Utah, before the article came out of the church news, six weeks or five weeks before the vote the support was running at about 60%. SL: Oh WD: In favor, 63% generally over Utah in favor. But after that article came out the support pretty much collapsed, and they weren’t able to pass it, but there was one article that did come out in the paper which was a list of mothers for the ERA. SL: Right, yeah BD: Yeah that was one of the many. WD: It was published in support but they couldn’t muster enough support. SL: Support after that. Did that kind of kill yeah? Killed it here in Utah. As a woman how do you define courage? BD: Well I kind of think of it as attempting to do something difficult, but that needs to be done. SL: Okay, so as you look back over your life and when I asked you before about who you admired as a kid, did you have mentors or people you looked up to going through your life up to now? 38 BD: Well mostly in the family, my grandmothers. Like my one grandmother the… my father’s mother was a daughter of a pioneer, John Brown that came across… SL: Oh okay BD: Her name was Rose Brown Hayes after she was married. And so, he [John Brown] was an inspiration for me too when I was younger, I didn’t pay much attention to him, but as I learned more about the whole trek to Utah and what they went through. I have had nothing but admiration for those people, they were terrific. I guess that’s … WD: Well Rose Brown Hayes also helped to collect material to publish the diaries of John Brown. BD: Oh yes, I should have mentioned that. WD: And she would go around and the collect stories of some of the pioneers before they died and some of them were still living. BD: When everybody lived in Pleasant Grove which was one of the early pioneer places she would go around and get the, and take my cousin with her and get the histories of a lot of these older women before they died. SL: And thank goodness she did because. BD: And so, she was in charge of the little pioneer cabin that was on the main street in Pleasant Grove. SL: Okay 39 BD: I don’t know if you’ve ever been there. Yeah, she was, she worked for the women’s rights too, and for everybody’s rights. That was a difficult time for a lot of people, they lived through it and they didn’t complain. WD: We… nowadays of course we got access to a lot of technology for compiling genealogy, back in those days it was all by hand pretty much. We got, nowadays we’ve ordered up a nine-generation fan chart of genealogy, you can just get it you know through family search online. But in those days’ genealogy was something you did by hand. SL: Right BD: Yeah SL: And you wouldn’t be able to get that chart now if somebody hadn’t collected that stuff back then. BD: You had to get it before they pass on. SL: Yeah, yeah. Do you have any advice or words of wisdom to girls of this younger generation? BD: Oh, just keep working, keep working for your rights and you’ll get them eventually, and to have hope. SL: Okay so I’m going to ask you my last question unless you can think of, did we cover everything? WD: Well, all the stuff that we have prepared we… 40 BD: Warren has been so good to collect all my stuff. I didn’t know that I had boxes of things up in my attic. SL: And you still had more because I must have picked up, I got 52 boxes of your stuff. BD: Oh WD: 52 boxes? SL: Yeah, I looked. They’re the smaller so it’s still about 30 boxes of your normal sized boxes of your stuff that I picked up. BD: Yeah there was… SL: So, if you’ve got more up there. BD: There was one young woman that belonged to the ERA and she was going to go to home, or go to a new place in California but she says “I’ll come and help you sort these out if you want?” So she came for two afternoons and we worked upstairs in my attic to try to get all that we could, and I was always going to bring other stuff up there too, but I never got around to it. SL: Well… BD: Have you heard that phrase before? SL: Yes, all the time, but don’t worry when you’re ready. BD: But you and you are busy rectifying that omission. 41 SL: Yup, and when you’re ready if you’ve got, if you’ve got more stuff we would love to add it when you’re ready to let go. BD: I’d love to bring it up. WD: And then how would she, who would she, would she get a hold of you? SL: Yeah WD: Okay SL: And I would BK: And then she would send me to come and get it. WD: Alright SL: Especially if it’s up in the attic because I remember those are pretty steep stairs. BD: Yeah, it’s up there. SL: See I remember having to bring them down those stairs, I’m not that young anymore. BD: Did you go up there? SL: Oh yeah, I was the one who came and picked up the original stuff. BD: Oh, I didn’t know who did get it at the time. SL: Yeah it was me about ten fifteen years ago. BD: Good for you, good for you! 42 SL: Yup, yup so I remember those stairs and I remember you were so worried about me carrying those things down cause you’re just like “Those are steep stairs.” BD: Yeah, they are, and their still steep. SL: Yeah, so… BD: And Warren has been very good since he came home to help me to put them all up there, but they’re still there. WD: We still have a few more boxes, and it’s just called the archives at Weber College? SL: Yeah, I’ll give you. BD: Oh, we got a place, a specific place I should take things. SL: I well, we can even come get them. BD: Okay BK: It’s easier than going on campus. SL: This has my old last name but it’s got my phone number. WD: Okay, Stewart Library. SL: And you can still e-mail me at that address. BD: Are you Sarah? SL: Yes, just my last name has changed and I don’t have new cards. WD: And it is Langsdon? 43 SL: It’s Langsdon. BD: Oh, that’s wonderful because that’s always my good intention. WD: Why don’t we tape this right on the inside of this so whenever it is time to donate this. Mother even has, this is every penny they spent on the Weber county ERA coalition. BK: Oh wow WD: For Xeroxing and… BD: It wasn’t very much WD: You can see how things were much less expensive in those days. SL: Yes, okay so I am going to ask you my final question which is, and Warren kind of already talked a little bit about it. So, with women getting the right to vote, with the 19th amendment, how do you think that has changed or influenced history, the community of Utah and then of course you personally? BD: Well I think this has had a really important effect on people, but unfortunately there are organizations that don’t have that same attitude toward it, and so we just have to keep working cause it’s just not going to happen by itself. So it’s upward and onward from here is my motto. SL: Yeah. BD: If I can hang around long enough but as you can tell my hearing is not good. 44 SL: Let’s hope that before your time is done you’ll see that because I would love for you to be able to. BD: With your encouragement and this whole thing I am very happy with that. SL: Yeah WD: And did you tell us how the, as I understand it there’s a, was it 20th anniversary next year. SL: So, 2020 is the 100th anniversary of the passing of the 19th amendment. BD: Oh wow. SL: And 150 years since Utah women got their right to vote, because Utah women got it in 1870 before it was taken away from them and then given back to them. So, we decided, there’s a group in Salt Lake that’s looking at the suffragette movement in Utah so that really, 1870 to 1920 movement, and I was like “That’s great but in Northern Utah Weber, Davis county, Box Elder, there’s only about a handful of women that were involved in that.” And so I said “Well then let’s look at women did using the right to vote as a catalyst that gave women finally a voice.” They became citizens basically they were no longer a property of their husbands. What did Utah women do with that, so we are looking at women that were involved in all manner of things in the community, so whether they were involved in politics, in education, in health care, in the arts, in business, if they were business owner and you know just looking at what women in this area have done and it has been amazing. The women that have come from Weber and Davis 45 County and have gone on to do things that have changed the community and some have even gone on nationally and done some amazing things. BD: Is that right. SL: Yeah BD: Well I’m glad to know that because at the time you don’t know who is busy helping and who doesn’t have time for it. SL: Yeah, so it’s been yeah kind of a really eye-opening experience, I mean we always have sort of the big names in this area, so the Eccles and the Dee’s and the Browning’s and stuff and what did they do. But then you have smaller people like you and, you know Gayle and I’m trying to think of Betty Collins who was the first female assistant AG, attorney general, for the state of Utah was from Ogden. BD: Oh, I didn’t know her name. SL: Yeah, yeah Betty was. She came, she actually flew from Oklahoma to be interviewed for this project. WD: Wow. BD: Well she knows it’s important. SL: Yeah, yeah. So, what we’re doing, we’re doing interviews and historical research on all these women, we’re going to combine it all and make sense of it. Try to synthesize it down and then we’ll have a big exhibit opening in March of 2020, which you will be invited to, you will get an invitation to come down and there’ll be an opening reception and then a chance to go through the exhibit and just kind of 46 be amazed at the women from this area. I mean like I said women from 1870 up to current and we’re even working with some of the younger college age kids. BD: Yes, I was wondering what have you learned from your travels, how do people regard the equal rights amendment today? SL: [Talking to Brooklyn] Well you’re that generation BK: Well I mean from the girls that we have spoken to so far that hasn’t even really been something that’s been on their mind anymore, because they have grown up with it their whole entire lives so it’s not something that they really think about because they have the privilege already. What’s really interesting is actually the question “women’s work” what it means to them that doesn’t even, it’s not, it’s nothing to them. They don’t even know what that means to them anymore so that’s kind of a cool thing to look at and be like you don’t even know what it means. BD: In a way it’s an encouragement but… SL: And well I think a lot of the younger generation don’t realize that the equal rights amendment is still floating out there. BK: Yeah BD: Yeah that’s right SL: That you know I don’t think that they, I think that they just figure that it was never passed and the fact that it was passed by congress just never ratified by the states and I love the fact that we are down to one. 47 BD: Isn’t that great. SL: That we are down to one more state we just need one more to ratify it and well it’s on one of thems ballot this coming year. I don’t remember which state it is but it is on their ballot to ratify it so it might actually happen in 2019. And then you know the fact it then gives women protected rights under the constitution that it can’t be, they can’t be taken away. BD: Oh, wouldn’t that be nice to have to not, have to remember that all the time that someday we’ll prevail, but it’s bound to. SL: I think so, and I think younger generations, if it doesn’t happen now I think it will in the not too distant future. I think as the younger generations come up and as long as they go out and vote I think they are the ones that are going to change that. You know her generation or my children who are a lot younger than her. BD: Yes, I’m so glad that… BK: We’re doing a lot more voting that’s for sure. SL: Yeah, yeah BK: These past two years we have more of my generation voting than ever before. BD: Yes, that’s really wonderful I could hardly believe it when I saw the pictures in the paper. SL: Yeah BD: They were playing an active part. 48 SL: Yeah, and I think that’s what’s going to make a difference. BD: I think so too. SL: So yeah it will be a big exhibit it will be up for a couple of months. WD: And where will it be? SL: It will be down at the Union Station. WD: Union Station. SL: Yeah, there one of our partners that are working with us on this and they have agreed to have it down in the grand lobby. So right when you first walk in it will be the first thing you see, so we’re hoping to get a lot of attraction of even people how are wondering through the museum be able to see it and really be amazed at the women around from this area. WD: We were down at the farmers market last Saturday, no yeah last Saturday and there was, there were people selling raffle tickets or something like this to renovate the Union Station. SL: Yes, yeah, they’re trying to expand and renovate the Station. So, they will keep the station as it is renovate it but then expand all the way down that empty lot and to where the from runner station is. WD: Okay SL: And expand the museums, we’re hoping to be able to down there and create a history research center. 49 BD: Oh really SL: So, it will be sort of a one stop shop for everything Weber and Davis County related and shops and restaurants. BD: Who was it that started this current movement I’ll say push to – to get the ERA ratified recently? SL: You know I don’t know whose kind of behind, and I was actually, I was one of those that didn’t realize that it was still floating around because I thought the time frame had passed. BD: Yeah you kind of get that feeling. SL: Yeah that it had passed so it was sort of just dead in the water. And then I was watching the news one day and they were talking about it that another state had ratified it and so we’re just down to one more and stuff. BD: Yeah SL: So, it will be kind of an interesting thing. BD: Yeah there will be a big celebration at the end. SL: Yeah, I hope so I hope. And I think with political climates how they kind of changed in the last couple of years and the big push of women and things being more involved being able to not want to take it for granted. BD: That’s right SL: And realize that they need to be the ones that step up. 50 BD: And it will be your generation. WD: Or maybe another generation who knows. SL: Yeah so, well yeah thank you Bev and Warren it’s been a pleasure. BD: Thank you, I’m so glad that you refreshed my memory about that. WD: We got some cherry pie of you would like a slice of that. SL: Yeah thank you.