Oral History Program Julee Smith Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 12 August 2019 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Julee Smith Interviewed by Lorrie Rands 12 August 2019 Copyright © 2022 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Beyond Suffrage Project was initiated to examine the impact women have had on northern Utah. Weber State University explored and documented women past and present who have influenced the history of the community, the development of education, and are bringing the area forward for the next generation. The project looked at how the 19th Amendment gave women a voice and representation, and was the catalyst for the way women became involved in the progress of the local area. The project examines the 50 years (1870-1920) before the amendment, the decades to follow and how women are making history today. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Smith, Julee, an oral history by Lorrie Rands, 12 August 2019, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Julee Smith 12 August 2019 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Julee Smith, conducted on August 12, 2019, at the Stewart Library, by Lorrie Rands. Julee discusses her life, her memories, and the impact of the 19th Amendment. Raegan Baird, the video technician, and Marina Kenner are also present during this interview. LR: Today is August 12, 2019. We are at Weber State University Stewart Library, it is about 10 o’clock in the morning, and we are here with Julee Smith for the women 2020 project. I am Lorrie Rands conducting the interview and Raegan Baird is with me. So Julee thank you again for your willingness. JS: Thank you. LR: I am extremely grateful. Let’s start with when and where you were born? JS: Oh dear, you really want to go back a long ways don’t ya? Alright, I was born in Ogden, Utah clear back in 1948, November 28 and you will notice the whole nation is celebrating my birthday this year. It’s on Thanksgiving. LR: My daughter deals with that every five years. JS: Her too, give her my sympathy. LR: I will and she will understand. Where did you grow up here in Ogden? JS: Most of the time. My family moved around a little bit, in fact, one year I literally went to four schools, but that was exceptional. We were in Duchesne, then we moved to Alpine, then we moved to Holliday, and then we finally made it back to Ogden. I was really grateful for that, and we lived there in the Weber County area until I was a freshman in high school. Then we moved to Box Elder County, and I graduated from Box Elder High School. 2 LR: Okay. So the moving around, was it because of your father? JS: It was his job, we got a place up in Duchesne, and that didn’t work out so then we moved in with my grandparents. Then we finally found another place, and that didn’t go so good, and then we moved back to Ogden, and finally he found his niche and that worked out. LR: So what did your father do? JS: Well it was interesting because he was mainly a farmer, but he worked for the railroad. The Union Pacific, they told him that would be a life time job, and then you know what happened when the airplanes came in. No, you probably don’t, but anyway, he lost that job and went to work for Swift Company and didn’t like that so he decided that he wanted to be a farmer. Well, when we went to Duchesne we bought a place that was a gas station, and a farm. That was crazy, and it was in the rural area of Duchesne, so you could imagine what that was like, and he’s going, “You know what this is crazy, trying to do all of this.” Us kids were little and we would go up in the mountains and play with the snakes and stuff, it kind of scared my mother. That’s why we decided that it would be better to come back. He ended up being a farmer the rest of his life and loved it. LR: Oh that’s awesome. When you moved back here to Ogden did he find a place that he could farm? JS: Well what happened, we were on what we called a stake farm for the LDS church. We were on that farm working it, and that was the one we had in Farr West until I was a freshman, and then he wanted his own farm, so he bought 250 acres in South Willard. Frankly, I wasn’t happy. I mean, you can imagine at that 3 age, I was like fifteen years old, and a move from all my friends that I’ve known for ever up there and I’m going [makes a face]. But you know what, it turned out to be one of the best things in my life, because the teachers up there became mentors. My whole idea was, “Yes, I will graduate high school but then I want to be a airline stewardess so I can fly all over and see things.” These mentors said, “Wow, go to college, open as many doors as you can.” Like I said they were amazing. They saw things in me I didn’t see, to be downright honest with ya. I think that’s when I started really respecting teachers, because the impact they can have on people’s lives when they start telling you things that you never thought of. What a difference. LR: Awesome. How old were you when you finally came back to Ogden? JS: Now when you say back to Ogden meaning when we moved all over the place…? LR: Yes. JS: I was in first grade. LR: Okay, so you were still young. JS: Oh yes. LR: What are some of your memories of going to elementary school here in Ogden? JS: Because we went to school a little while in Deweyville, and in that class they had three grades. When I got here they had one. I went to Plain City Elementary and we were all first graders, and that was so cool. I liked the fact that at the recesses we had such a great time and people were just really accepting. The teachers 4 were good, Mrs. Cottle was my second grade teacher. I still remember her name and the way that the teachers really cared about students. LR: As you were growing up, who were some of the women that you looked up to? JS: Well, my mom was obviously an awesome person in my life. She was very traditional and I was a little rebel because when I saw some of the things, like she really wanted to go to college but, what shall I say, she wasn’t encouraged. I felt bad about that, I thought “Wow, why shouldn’t she be able to have her dreams?” And don’t get me wrong I think family is important, absolutely, but I always thought that you should be able to do what you felt strongly about. If you had something you really wanted to have happen, whether you were a female or a male, you should be able to go for it. I watched her struggle. I also saw situations where there was abuse, and I was against that from the day I was little. I couldn’t stand bullying. That was just something that set me off, and the women that stood up, the teachers that would take the side of the students and fight for their rights. I had a teacher in high school, her name was Mrs. Sleigh and she was a character. She pulled me out of class, it was an AP class, and I had thought, “This is too much work, I’m gonna transfer out.” She pulled me out of class and said, “You know what, you probably don’t need me but I need you.” Saying that to a student, I mean seriously, and I went “Huh?” She says, “You add something to this class that I need, please stay in here. You know I want to work with you, and we are going to do this and that. You’re gonna get some information that I really think you need to use in college.” I mean, she made a huge difference. I took classes 5 from her every year while I was in high school. She had me apply for scholarships. So she made a huge difference in my life. My grandmother was a rebel and I think she set the stage. She was always out doing things that, “Women don’t do that,” but she did. So she was just like, “Come on, do what you need to do.” She was just always, looking at the possibilities versus what was. She got me to where I was doing that too. Those were the main people that had an impact on me. LR: Okay, thank you. You said that your grandmother would do things, what were some of the things that she would do that really stood out to you? JS: She started businesses, and don’t get me wrong, she was a good mom and grandma, but she always had something she wanted to make happen. She was, “Okay, let’s try this.” She gave me my first job, she owned a Frost Top Drive Inn. I was thirteen and so I was a carhop. Then she decided to give swimming lessons and then I was helping with that. And she just kept offering me different jobs to do, and I found out I like to work. And so I just kept working all the way through school, my whole life. LR: Awesome, thank you. Along with that, were you encouraged to pursue an education? JS: You know what, not so much by my family. I was the first one, and don’t get me wrong they were proud of me, but it wasn’t like, “Okay, this what we see you doing.” It was more the teachers that I had in high school that said, “Come on, you need this college education.” I was fortunate, I won some beauty contests and they gave me scholarships. 6 LR: Beauty contests? JS: I know [laughing] what can I say! LR: Can you elaborate about that a little bit? JS: [Laughing] You really want me to? LR: Yes ma’am! JS: Okay. My father was a dairy farmer and so they asked me to run for the county Dairy Princess contest. So I did that, won it, and then they asked me if I would try out for the Peach Queen up in Brigham City if you’ve ever heard of that? LR: I have. JS: So did that, won that. Then, of course they just sent me to the state Dairy Princess contest and I won that one. They gave me nice scholarships. The only problem is you couldn’t get married and I was engaged. [Laughing] So I was engaged for two years. LR: So you couldn’t get married to use the scholarships? JS: No, I would forfeit my scholarships if I got married before my, I don’t want to say term was up, but until I gave that crown or whatever you want to call it over to the next person. LR: Okay was that standard practice at the time? JS: [Nods head yes] LR: Is that something that they still do? I wonder? JS: I don’t know? That would be something that would be good to look at, because like I said they were very up front. If I got married then I backed out and that first attendant became the Queen or whatever. 7 LR: Okay, I’m going back just a little bit. Back to your high school. What are some of your memories, besides the teachers, that stand out to you at Box Elder High? JS: Well I had to get out of my shell, because you had your cliques. When you’re used to growing up with a group of people and you have your things you do, and there I didn’t have a clique, you just had to see what was available. I got into a debate club if you can believe. Never thought about debate, my husband is so sorry I did. But I loved it, and we did really well and I thoroughly enjoyed that. I started looking at things and became a student body officer, which I had never thought about doing that before. I found out I really got to help people, because you got an opportunity to stick up for students’ rights and to say, “Okay, I think this would work better.” It was just an awesome opportunity, and I went places I hadn’t thought of going before, because when you’re in new territory why not explore. I just really was grateful for the opportunity to make new friends. In fact, to this day one of the gals, I tell her this quite often, she invited me to a sleepover and I went, “Oh finally, I’ll get to meet some friends.” She was just so open and friendly and kind that she made me feel at home. I’d begged my mom, “Just let me go live with my grandparents, because they live in Weber County and I can still go to the same schools.” They said, “No, you need to be up here.” It just opened the door to so many new friendships and opportunities and it was something that changed my life if you want to know the truth. I got to where I didn’t mind getting up in front of people and that made a huge difference. LR: So your scholarship, what university was that to or college? 8 JS: Well you got to choose. LR: Oh really! JS: They said, “Okay here you go,” so I went to Brigham Young University the first year, and that was an experience. That was the first time I lived away from home. What had happened is, the friend I was mentioning before, she was going to go down there with me but she didn’t get accepted. I went, “Now what do I do?” So here I am, school’s going to start in like a month, I don’t have a place to live, ‘cause we were going to get an apartment together. So literally, here I am with my mother going from apartment to apartment complexes down there, and I ran into this group of a couple of gals, and I said, “By any chance do you have an extra bed?” I mean, literally, because the dorms were full, they didn’t have any rooms in the dorms. I said, “Are you looking for any roommates at all?” They had one. They had five roommates and then they had one bed that was going to be available. I literally moved in and they were all from out of state! So that was an experience to say the least, and to be down there and like I said my first time away from home. I decided I was going to be a nurse, and 7 o’clock one morning we had to go to class and they wanted us to take each other’s blood. Yeah, I hadn’t eaten breakfast and I went, “Are you kidding me? I’m not going to do this.” So that made me change my mind about my major. I had a hundred dollars a month that I had to live on. My dad was a farmer. I mean, my school was paid for but my living expenses and rent had to come out of that and food. I ate one meal a day and you got to where you appreciated it, and you just made sure that every penny you spent went in a 9 good place. Anyway, the gals were great. We had what we called a family home evening group with some boys from another apartment. What happened is, how can I put this, they pulled a little trick on us and they threw us in Utah Lake. They thought that would be funny. It was spring, and it was wet and cold, so we decided we would make them x-lax cookies as a payback. We did that and it just happened to be the spring break, and it had some kind of sad effects on them when they were trying to get home. So they came back and they decided to take furniture out of our apartment and put it in other people’s apartments and put jell-o in our toilets. I can’t remember what all they did to us, but the police got called because they faked falling over the balcony because we decided that to get even with them we put honey on their toilet. And I mean, you know we were college kids, so they came to our house and faked like they were going to shoot each other. The police got called and we got in trouble a little bit. I didn’t get arrested, I promise I didn’t get arrested, but we became a little notorious if you want to know the truth. But it was a riot! We had a really good time needless to say. About that time my husband proposed to me and I accepted so I decided to transfer to Weber, because he was making the trip back and forth and he’d tell me how he’d almost fall asleep and I decided that wasn’t a good plan so I transferred to Weber State. LR: What was Weber like when you first started coming here? JS: I liked Weber. It was a little different of course ‘cause it was mainly a commuter campus. Down at BYU so many of the students were from out of state, so it was a little bit different. Most of the students at Weber were from this area, and of 10 course I wasn’t living on campus, I was coming on, but I appreciated the students. Number one, I made some really good friends. But number two, the professors. One of the professors used to be a medical examiner and he was in the police science department. He had some of the most interesting stories that you can imagine. He would show pictures of dead bodies and then asked us, “How do you think they died? What killed them?” I’ll never forget one picture was of a guy that had these prongs. We thought it was a snake that killed him but it was somebody using a fork, a barbeque fork, stabbed him multiple times. Another one, it was a couple that was really embraced in this car. Well they had wanted to park and makeout and backed into a snowbank and of course the exhaust came into the car and killed them. The gentleman I was sitting next to is now a judge, and he goes, “What a way to go.” It took me a minute to register and I went, “Well yeah I guess.” Well anyway, we had just a great time and like I said this professor was awesome. He got me to where I was really thinking along the lines of solving things and helping people in that area. I added police science, its criminal justice now, as a major and also social work, so I had the two majors that I worked on and he made a huge difference in just seeing the possibilities. I had some good professors in social work that talked about what they had done to help people. And that struck a chord with me I just thought, “You know what, if I can make a difference in people’s lives, why not? It won’t be just a job, this will be something that will hopefully be what something that will make an impact and really help people.” That’s why I chose the double majors. 11 LR: Okay. Who was that professor’s name, do you remember? JS: Jim Gaskill. LR: Okay. Going along with that, what were some of the challenges that you faced while you were obtaining your degree here? JS: Well I was married and had my first baby, and I also had to work part time ‘cause we’re young and married and poor. It was a challenge to get it all in, to be able to come to class, do the homework, and all the requirements. So that it was a challenge. The professors were good to work with and I don’t want to knock any university, okay, but the classes were smaller and that made a difference. Where you really go to know the professor versus you’re just a name on the roll or a number or whatever. I appreciated that, I like the more personalized attention and being able to go up and talk to them. If you had a question you could say, “Well what about this?” I especially liked the ones, I mean there’s some professors that lecture and you’re just supposed to sit there, but the ones that interact, and frankly, hearing other student’s concerns and what was going on with them, to me was important and made an impact. LR: So Weber then was just a college so you got a two year degree? JS: No, it was a four year. It was a college though, it was not a university, but I got the four year degree. I would have had three majors but my husband said that I needed to get a real job. I only had like what about six credits left in history and I would have had it as a major as well. I loved history. LR: Yes. I can appreciate that. 12 JS: I think it is fascinating. I did graduate, and I loved the police science information because it was so novel to me. They had us do an intern—well I shouldn’t say internship, it was more like just go ride along with the police. We got in a shootout, and that was exciting and I thought, “Oh man, I can get into this.” Well, don’t ask me how but I was the top graduate in both social work and police science so the administration asked me, “You got to choose, one or the other.” Well so anyway, naive me, I thought there would never be another female first, you know, in police science so I took that one of course. I went to the chief of Ogden Police thinking, “Okay, I’m gonna apply and get a job with the Ogden Police and they're going to be so excited to have me.” The police chief happened to be in that day, come marching out, and said, “There is no place on this force for a woman.” I went, “Great, okay?” He says, “But you could be a reserve officer.” Okay. So I apply to be a reserve officer. LR: Do you remember what year this was? JS: That would have been about 1973, somewhere through there, because I was just about ready to graduate. In the meantime, they had a test that you could take to get on the state register. So what happened in the meantime—and I have to say as a reserve officer it was fascinating what happened in that they made us do all that the men did. We had to go out on the shooting range, we had to take all of the courses and everything, they did allow us to help with dispatch, to get the officers out. But they wouldn’t all issue us a gun, they issued a gun to all the guys but they wouldn’t give us one because maybe they thought we’d go after them, I 13 don’t know, and of course they wouldn’t let us ride along with the men. We were pretty much just in the office. I got on the state register and the Utah’s juvenile court called me and said, “Would you come in for an interview?” I went in for an interview and they offered me a job as juvenile probation officer. So I thought, “Well that might turn out better,” because that is more of a eight to five Monday through Friday versus the police work would have been probably shifts. It was ironic in that I was still a reserve officer and Ogden Police came to me and asked me if I would take a job with them. What they said was instead of me starting out in patrol that I would start out as a detective, I would just skip over patrol work. I don’t know if they had some pressure somewhere, but I mean I honestly, I thought, “If I was one of those patrol men I would be mad if they brought somebody, a woman, and didn’t make her go through all the things. Hello? I think I better not go there.” It was tempting, don’t get me wrong it was tempting. I went with juvenile court, they offered me a supervisor position. I had to start working out in Bountiful, but it was with juveniles and that to me was awesome because I got to work with the young people. It struck a note with me big time, to be able to work with those young people and hear their stories, and the things that had happened that ended up with them being on probation. It was interesting because one of the first things they told me was that one of the victims of juvenile law violations would be calling me and I could not give them any information. They had told this person, “You won’t be getting any restitution even though you have had a significant loss but go ahead and sue the juvenile,” 14 but then they told me, “You can’t give any information about the juvenile.” So that would leave the victim in a weird situation. I thought, “That is just too strange.” So needless to say as my career went on with the juvenile court I was interested in victims and trying to help them as well, but also juveniles, because for many of the young people they couldn’t get jobs but they were supposed to pay fines and restitution. If their parents didn’t have any money what were they supposed to do? Fortunately, I became what they call the Ed Liaison for the second district and that’s education liaison. Anyway the administrative office asked me if I would write some grants because we wanted to set up some juvenile work crews so that the kids could go to work for these crews, because nobody is going to have a juvenile offender just work for them to work off community service. They could work off community service plus they could earn restitution. It was only like three or four dollars an hour, but still it was better than what they had been getting before and then that money went directly to the victim. At first it was just three court districts involved but then as time went on we were able to expand that grant to all eight districts. The work crews were, are, they still exist clear across the state. That was exciting to be able to help make that happen and some of those kids it was the first time that they had the experience of actually achieving something that they could see the success and to see them get excited about it. I mean, we went out to Antelope Island and we helped build the fences where the buffalo are at out there, in fact my crew supervisor got gored by one. We had some adventures we really did. 15 It was good, it was successful, and I’ll never forget some of the kids asked to stay on when their work hours were done, because they felt good about themselves. We had one young lady from Bountiful that her family was very wealthy but they had said, “No, we won’t pay your fine. You’re gonna work off your hours.” She initially got out there on Antelope Island and she said, “I’m not going to dig manure, we have servants that do that kind of stuff.” The crew leader said, “Sit up on the fence, you won’t get any credit for hours and neither will anybody else. Come on everybody, you’re gonna do the work and you know she’ll just sit up there and look at us.” Couldn’t imagine what the other kids were saying to her as they would shovel by her. It took about five, ten minutes at the most that she was down and off that fence. She just said, “Okay, okay I will go to work.” He said, “When you get through I want to see some blisters on your hands. I want to see that you really worked.” It was interesting because she got to be a leader once she committed to it. Her parents came to the crew supervisor about two weeks later and said, “What have you done to our kid? She wants to do stuff at home. Wow, we have no idea what happened to this kid.” He said, “Hey, she found out what it feels like to accomplish something and she feels good about herself.” We planted all the trees in Roy along that main road and somebody came along the next night and they broke all the trees off. Those kids were furious. The first thing was, “We got to get them.” I mean, that was their initial gut reaction. The crew supervisor said, “Wow, wait just a minute, now you know what it feels like when somebody destroys your property. No, we’re not gonna get ‘em. We’re gonna fix this.” So 16 they went and got more trees donated, went out and replanted them and then babysat them for a little while. Well the trees are beautiful now, but that made such an impact on these kids. I’ll never forget the kid that came in, he was a young man that frankly had been in the gangs and he decided he wanted to take a different road. There was a coach at the school he went to, he was a good athlete, and this coach said, “Come on you can do this but you got to get your grades up, you got to go to school, and you got to go to be in class.” Anyway, he just started to do great things, was a super athlete, got a scholarship to college. And his girlfriend’s parents, thank goodness, took him into their family, they really supported him. A lot of parents would have said, “Gang member? Get out of here.” But instead it was, “No, you spend time at our house.” Anyway, they got married. But before he got married, I will never forget the day that young man came to my office door and knocked and said, “I am going to go to college and I am going to be a probation officer just like you and I am going to help kids.” That was my payday. It was like, “Yes, this is more than worth it to be able to see these young people get their lives turned around.” It was amazing and I loved every minute of it. I want to make sure that you know that whatever I’ve done I’ve done as a member of a team. I don’t do things just on my own. I’ve found that when you have other people working with you it’s amazing what you make happen. It’s always been a team effort. I became a chief probation officer and it was so cool to see the different things we were able to do across the state. We could have an impact and make a difference with so many. I mean, we had like 250 kids on 17 probation in just Weber County, so you could imagine the numbers that we were dealing with. LR: Right. What are some of the changes that you faced in your chosen career? JS: I guess for instance my job at YCC was with domestic violence and sexual assault victims and there’s some people that want to say victims deserve it. “Well, if you wouldn’t wear that shirt and go to a bar you would never…” Seriously, they would come up with excuses as to why these people “deserved” what they got. I mean the kids on probation too, many people see them as “juvenile delinquents” rather than people with potential. It’s getting that turned around and saying, “Don’t play the blame game.” Every one of these people have potential, every one of these people can be amazing. So instead of looking at them as what’s in the past, let’s look at them as a person and what they can do. I teach restorative justice for the courts now and that’s a part of that message. Restorative justice means everybody is able to pull together and hopefully right the wrong; make it so that people are whole again, the victim, the offender, and the community. Now to me, sending people back to prison or back to lock up time after time, what does that serve? And don’t get me wrong, if they are dangerous that’s where they need to be, absolutely. But when you’re sending people on drug charges and things like that, look at what else can we do with them. What kind of program could we work with them in order to get them to stay in the community and start being a productive citizen? Because to me, then the community wins. Instead of paying a bunch of bucks to keep them locked up, instead they’re 18 contributing to the community and I mean, that is the big thing. Then they can feel good about themselves, the community is better off. I mean, to me it’s a win-win situation. LR: How did you balance your home life with your work life? JS: Well I had four children and they were in child care. In fact, I was looking at her picture just last night, and I would tell her, “Okay, have them have long naps and that way I can keep them up until at least ten o’clock!” Homework was first when they were in school. We did the homework but then we played and we had a good time. I’m not saying it was easy, but it was worth it. Those kids, they’ve all got good work ethics and they all had to do chores. It was like, “Okay, you make your bed.” It may have not looked very good but they made their bed, and as time went on they got better at it. We went on a cruise when my eldest daughter had turned sixteen, and we left her with the three younger ones and we had a foster child. So she had four kids to take care of and my neighbors went, “Are you kidding me? Our kids would kill each other if we left them to watch each other.” When we had our youngest child, I told our oldest daughter that we were going to have a baby, we told her it was a Christmas gift, she just said, “This is the best Christmas ever!” I mean, seriously, she mothered those kids. When we took off on our cruise, would you believe the foster child’s parents came to visit while we were gone? My second daughter, she got her shoulder out of joint while they were playing and my daughter took her to the instant care and got it popped back in. They just learned to be responsible, and I’m not making any excuses, I’m just saying they are dang 19 awesome. They all have degrees and they appreciated education, so I want to believe that didn’t hurt them. We were all together last night with the grandkids, and by the way my granddaughter graduated with masters in accounting here from Weber State. My other two grandkids that are old enough are going to Weber State as well. So the grandson had brought his girlfriend, well my other grandson that’s four years old latched on to her, he said, “She’s pretty.” He’s four! Literally, he gets a brush, he’s brushing her hair, walks with her holding her hand. I am like, “What is going on?” He’s just like, “She’s pretty.” I mean he’s four, oh my gosh I’m worried. But anyway they’re just a riot. I think they have been supportive in the different jobs that I have had and I think it has given them a broader view of the world. Don’t get me wrong, it wasn’t easy and I had a supportive husband. Very supportive. When I went to get my masters, there I was, we had two little kids, I found out I was pregnant when I was in the masters program, and I was working full-time for the courts. He was supportive, he says, “You go girl.” I had gotten my masters degree, I don’t know if I’d recommend it, but I’ll tell you he just hung in there with me through it all. You need somebody that’s willing to support you and, and he was. LR: That’s awesome. How long did you work for the juvenile court system? JS: For thirty-two years. I don’t know if I would have worked longer but at the time they started to change the benefits for state employees and so it reduced the retirement so it was time to get out I decided. I retired from there, went to work for Ogden City School District, and that was an experience. I was in their adult ed 20 program, no, I went to work for Mountain View Title first. My cousin worked there and I went there as an escrow officer. I was going to make some money. I decided I worked for the state, that was nice, but now I was gonna make some really good money. I could not get into it. Don’t get me wrong it was nice, the people were nice, but when you are going out strictly to make money there is something missing. Then the housing market, that was about 2008, went in the toilet. I mean, bad. And some of those people didn’t have any other income and I had a retirement coming in. I quit because I just thought, “That’s not fair, I’m taking business away from them.” That’s when I went to work for Ogden City School District. Well, the economy stayed in the toilet and they lost some grants, so then I went to work for YMCA in the junior high after school program. I’ll never forget when they said I was dealing out of my trunk. We gave snacks to the kids, they forgot to get the snacks so I got the snacks and I say, “Come on you guys, just get the…” and I had them in my trunk. They said, “That didn’t look good Julee, at all.” “Hey, do what you got to do.” I was having a riot and I think junior high kids are so fun, and they are so creative. I was working there, really having a good time, and the assistant chief of Ogden police called me and said, “The gal retired from YCC that was the director, would you take over as the interim? You just need to do it for probably a month until we can find someone else. Would you do that?” My friends and coworkers were saying, “Are you nuts? Don’t go there. That’s domestic violence crisis center, they are having some issues there now. You don’t know what you’re getting into.” It’s almost like someone throws a challenge at me and I 21 think, “Watch me.” I just said, “Hey, I want to help out. I want to give it a shot.” So I went there as the interim, and they were turning hundreds of people away because they only had twenty-six beds. I thought, “You’re kidding me, we’ve got to do something about this.” I like the people that were working there, so anyway, I applied for the job. That was ten years ago and we more than doubled the size of the shelter to sixty beds. We were able to get a lethality assessment going because too many people didn’t realize the danger they were in. Just like when you put a frog in a pot of water and slowly turn the heat up. Just, “Oh this is life, this is life.” My daughter had a friend that brought her sister to lunch with them one day and she had a black eye and her jaw was all swollen. My daughter says, “What happened to you?” she says, “Oh my husband knocked me around again.” “Why don’t you leave him?” “Oh I will when it gets worse.” And that weekend he shot and killed her. When I came on board, the only contact all the shelters had—we have shelters all across the state, domestic violence shelters. T he only contact they had with each other was more the shelter managers, not the directors, who would talk to each other but it was mainly about their grants. The executive directors weren’t talking really, and it was almost a competition because we were all going after the same grants and stuff. Anyway, when I came on board I says, “Why aren’t we talking?” ‘Cause I’d been over the probation chiefs and had been president of the correctional association, and when I found out people weren’t working together, I said, “Come on you guys, let’s put aside some of the competition, let’s get together and join forces. Get 22 some laws, get some money, get some things from the legislature. Let’s do it.” ‘Course when you do something like that they say, “Fine, you’ll be the chair then,” and I’m like, “Oh crap,” you know, “here we go.” Anyway, I was a chair for the first couple of years and it was cool, the things that we were able to get done. We did get some funding and it was at the same time YCC doubled the size of the shelter, which didn’t go over so well with some of the other shelters for YCC, but we did get some money. Then we went for a while where there were other chairs and then the lethality assessment came up and it was from Maryland. The author of the Lethality Assessment came up and talked to us about it and most of the shelter directors said, “Well we can’t do both, we still need some more money but this is going to cost money to get it going.” I said, “Watch us,” and they said, “Fine, you be chair again.” I said, “Okay, what the heck. For six months I’ll get us through the legislature, but then somebody else needs to take over.” ‘Cause it took time. Senator Allen Christensen from our voting district, (I have to put in a plug for him) he was behind us and he went to bat for us, and we got some other people. Anyway the lethality assessment literally is pretty much state-wide now and is eleven questions. “Has he threatened to strangle you?” When I say ‘he,’ there’s women that are abusers, I want to make sure everybody knows that. But the idea is threats. “Has he or she tried to strangle you? Have they threatened you with a gun? Have they said they're going to kill you?” When the police go out they ask these questions and a part of it is if they answer yes to a certain number of them they are in the high danger and they say, “Please, we need to connect 23 you with the shelter.” So it isn’t just them talking to them, they literally connect them to shelter services and that makes a huge difference. It’s still a major problem in Utah, but several years ago it was the number one cause of homicides in Utah. Since lethality came in, the numbers have subsided somewhat, and I really believe that’s had an impact, I really do. LR: One thing I’m noticing is it seems like your time in the juvenile justice system really helped you, almost prepared you, for the time at the YCC. JS: It did, I saw a lot of families in abusive situations. I saw kids that learned to abuse because of what they’re experiencing at home. I saw them think that violence was normal. You want something, somebody won’t give it to ya, you knock them around or take it. I feel like every job that I have had has helped build on my knowledge base and contacts. It is very important to know people. It really is, it’s all a team effort. Frankly, right now I would love to see a law passed where people who are being stalked, you know somebody’s dating him and they start stalking them—we’ve seen that in the homicides recently—anyway, that they should be eligible to go into a domestic violence shelter. I think that they should be able to get safety and I think that should be looked at as a very serious situation. That they are encouraged to get help but also that the police are on top of it so that they don’t feel like they are out there by themselves. The victims are safer because the victim advocates literally talk to them, “You need to be careful about this,” that and make sure they understand what can happen. It’s very important that they understand. 24 LR: Marina Kenner is here instead of Raegan for the second half and today is August 7, 2019. So picking up right where we left off we were talking about the YCC, actually it was the YWCA at the time I think. Had it changed to the YCC yet when you were working there? JS: No, now the thing is YWCA is totally different than YCC. YCC started out as the YMCA but was changed years ago because under the YWCA they could not shelter men victims nor have men serve on the board. I worked for the YMCA previously and it was an afterschool program. So, I was there for about a year and that’s when the assistant police chief recruited me to run the YCC. LR: For some reason when I was talking to Gaye Littleton I assumed that they were the same organization, just different names. Thank you for clarifying. JS: They are definitely different and you know what the YMCA is. The YCC stands for “Your Community Connection,” and they are strictly domestic violence, sexual assault. Whereas the YMCA is more afterschool programs, recreational, and those types of things, so they are definitely different. LR: You said the assistant chief of police here in Ogden recruited you. Did your name just come up or did they know you? JS: Yes, because when I had been a juvenile probation officer we had worked a lot together. Evidently when they were talking about who could we bring in, and then my name came up, “Well what about her? You know she’s retired from the courts,” and so on and so forth. That’s when they called me and it was interesting because frankly, I was out of state at a conference at the time and when I got the call he left a message. So I went, “Okay I’ll call him,” well you know what it’s like 25 to run to an airplane, and by the time we got home it was like 11 o’clock at night. “I’m not going to call him back.” So the next day I’m at work at the YMCA right, and his wife calls me and says, “Have you talked to him?” I says, “Well no,” and she says,“You need to.” I went, “Okay, then I will.” I called him and he just said, “Would you please come and, just for a little while, be the director?” It was interesting, the reaction I got from some of my friends, “You don’t want to do that, that’s really gonna be a headache, that is a major undertaking.” The more I thought about it I thought, “Why shouldn’t I? Just for a little while.” It would be different if it was a life sentence, but I just figured for a little while I’ll help out. I got in there and like I probably mentioned before they were turning away hundreds of people and it was like, “We got to do something about this.” LR: So you helped create the lethality assessment, and you helped create the bigger shelters? JS: Okay, and on ours we were able to expand, but as far as the other shelters in the state, what it was we came together and I did not have any impact on their size or anything like that. I mean, we were working all together. I was only over the YCC, but we worked together to get funding for all of them throughout the state. Once again, it was a unified effort because of us being able to make the contacts, and I have to say Senator Christensen was leading the charge, then we were able to get things done that they were never able to do before. One was the lethality assessment, another one was increased funding for all the shelters, we got some laws passed. I mean, it was a united effort that made a difference. It was exciting to see that happen. 26 LR: So a month, two months turns into? JS: Nine years! What can I say? LR: So what made you decide to actually get put into a full-time position? JS: Because of the need to expand the shelter, because I just saw there were some things that needed to happen in order for the program to give the services it really needed to do. It caught my heart, is what it did. I mean, to see the women and children come into that place, the fear in their eyes. I literally had people come into my office and just say, “Thank you for saving our lives.” I didn’t do it, but how sincere they were and appreciative. I’ll never forget this one little gal, her mother didn’t speak English so she would interpret for her. They came into my office and she was trying to say how grateful they were and she starts to cry. She says, “Me and my brother have not been able to go to the same school for a whole year until this year. We had to keep moving and there were so many things going wrong in our family, and finally we’re able to stay in the same school all year. We made friends, we were able to do things, be in clubs and activities. It has just been so wonderful.” I can’t remember, she was probably ten or eleven years old, and I thought, “What would that be like?” For her to be so emotional and grateful, and to watch a brother, sister, and then the mother thrive was amazing. They stayed in the shelter, then we had housing, just temporary housing for them. We call it transitional housing, for them to stay in until they are able to find a permanent place to stay. They lived there for about two years, and to watch them, and how much they progressed. The mother got into an English class so that she could learn to speak English, she got a job. I mean, it was so 27 awesome. Anyway, that to me was what it was all about, to see these people get the help that they need and to get out of danger. It was interesting how the different programs—and in fact, we were accused of having too many. We have the sexual assault center, we have the Senior Life Care Center, which actually more to do with the seniors. What had happened is they started a program because nobody else in the area would do it, because there were issues elders in the senior community that they weren’t getting the services and they were in danger. In other words, they had repairs in their home that weren’t that big of a deal, like a grab bar to be able to get out of the tub or a ramp for their wheelchair to get in the house. They were going without because there was nobody willing to do it and they didn’t have any money. So we come in and got grants and started to do these minor home repairs and then we would monitor the clients. If they didn’t have food in the house, we would hook them up to those resources, and make sure they weren’t being abused. I mean, the oldest person we have in the shelter was ninety-four. We had that program and we had our thrift store, we had the warehouse so we had clothing for the clients, and we had utensils so when they did go into their homes we could actually give them things. For instance, there was a lady that left the shelter and it was just before Thanksgiving. She had a baby while she was in the shelter so the baby was probably maybe eight weeks old and she had like a three year old, and they had moved out of the shelter. Well anyway, there was a lady from my neighborhood that came and they wanted to give food to people for Thanksgiving. We got two very nice dinners and we decided to give 28 her one of them, got to her house, they didn’t have any food in their house. We’re going, “What? What are you doing? How are you?” She’s, “Well I’m a convert to the LDS church, and I was really going to plan on talking to them but I just haven’t.” We’re like, “Okay, these are babies, you need to feed them now,” so we gave them food then we made a connection with other resources, Catholic Community Services does their food pantry, and she didn’t have any blankets for them. So because of our warehouse and our store we have blankets, the donations that people make are amazing, and so we were able to get her blankets that night. This is the kind of thing that we do. So we do kind of an after-care and the Crime Victims Association, they do a lot of our funding, the Voca and the Vowa grants. Anyway, they have broadened it to where we can help the clients with transportation now, we can do deposits on their apartments or whatever in order to get them housing. So it’s expanded significantly. When I came on board, the YCC budget was about just a little over a million. And when I left, it was over two million because of the services expanding and the shelter and everything expanding, so more money to do that. But to be able to work with them through the transition made all the difference. Because you don’t, “Okay, get out of the shelter, your times up.” Where do they go? Well they're going to go back to their abuser if they don’t have other options. That’s why it was important to make sure that we had the resources to get them into a place of their own. YCC works with Weber State and the ATC, we have some scholarship money to get them the training that they needed to, to get good jobs. People Helping People is an 29 organization who helps women get good paying jobs and hook the client up with good resources so that they could actually support their families. LR: So you did that for nine years? So you’re no longer with the YCC now. JS: Right, I retired in April. LR: Okay so it has just been recently that you retired. So now what? JS: Now what, now I only work two jobs. LR: Okay, remind me what those are. JS: I work for Weber State as an adjunct professor, and in fact, I taught this morning and I’ll teach tomorrow night and Thursday morning. I also teach for the state courts. Restorative justice and social empowerment. LR: So how did you get involved working for Weber state? JS: Okay, what happened is a person that used to work for Weber County and was one of our therapists at the court, Dr. Craig Campbell, became the chair of the Child and Family Studies Department. He said, “Wouldn’t you like to come and teach?’ Well when I was attending Weber State, I had substitute taught in high school and that was an experience to say the least. And I thought, “Maybe I’ll pass.” He asked me to be on the Child and Family Studies Board, which I loved, and now I thought that was way cool and he was having a great time. Anyway I says, “I don’t know?” but he says, “Look, just come and teach one class. If you don’t like it, I promise I won’t bug you anymore. Just come and teach one class.” Well I’ll tell you what—and I will never forget, the class was at a high school out in Davis County, and I went there and the students were amazing. I think I learned just about as much from them as they learned from me. I really do 30 because there was one gentleman in the class, he and his wife, and they wanted children really bad and she had epilepsy. She went off her medication without consulting the doctor and she had a grand mal seizure and passed away. Another of the students lost their mother, and you wouldn’t believe how those students came together and supported each other. I was so impressed and the conversations we’d have in class. I mean, it wasn’t just about the text; it was about when somebody dies what do you do? When something unexpected happens to someone you know, and how they all rally together. He dropped all of his classes but that one because he felt like that was a place to go and people understood. Well, I got hooked. I mean, it was such a great experience. I’m going, “Oh my gosh! These students want to learn and they care about each other. Yeah, I’ll teach again!” That was like 1991 and I’ve been teaching ever since. LR: Wow. How was it different from when you were a student? How was the campus different? I mean, granted you’re at Davis campus when you were… JS: Right I was and it was, actually like it was a high school that I taught. You realize that was a long time ago but I felt like there was more student interaction. I loved my classes when I was going to school here, I really liked it. There were some professors that encouraged interaction and others it was like, “Just shut-up and sit there and listen.” I think that’s changed a lot, I really believe that, but interaction was really encouraged and I felt like that was important. It was not just educating the mind, it was educating the whole person and investing in them. It’s like you are a big part in what we do here at Weber State and we really want you 31 to make sure that you are using all of your talents and capabilities and being a big part of what we’re doing here. LR: Right. So you started teaching in 1991, which means you’re still out doing the juvenile probation correct? JS: Okay, I teach for the courts down at the Matheson or they can send me to the different districts and things like that. But I started to do that not long after I retired because I loved to teach the classes with them. I taught like victim awareness to the probationers when I was there and then they asked me to come back and teach the employees. I honestly don’t know how many years I’ve taught for them. LR: I didn’t word my question very well. So you had retired when you started teaching at Weber State? JS: No, I apologize, I misunderstood. I was teaching full-time for the courts and working full-time for them and teaching at Weber State. I was doing both. LR: Okay, that is a lot. JS: I usually do like YCC and teach. I love teaching so much it’s hard to think of it as a job. I see it as, well, some people have hobbies where they swim or do whatever, I teach. I just really enjoy it. LR: Awesome. You taught human development, what else did you teach here? JS: I’ve taught stress management, I have taught parenting, and marriage and romantic relationships. In fact, I taught marriage up until last semester and then switched over to human development. At one time I taught four classes, but that was a bit much. So now I’m teaching two classes. 32 LR: Okay. How is it different, between teaching at the courts and teaching at Weber State? JS: I feel like—well with the courts, it’s like you teach a one day class and then that’s it. I don’t get the follow through like I do obviously teaching the class, we really get to know the students. Now obviously some of the people I know from having worked there and everything, and I do try to do the follow up and everything, but it’s more of a one time thing. I taught down in St. George, I’m gonna teach in Provo in a couple of months, so you jump around like that. It’s really good though, in that they take the feedback that I give them and they utilize it, but I don’t get the long term interaction with the participants. LR: As you were building your career, how did you balance home life with your work life? JS: Because I had a full-time caregiver for my children I said, “Make sure that they get long naps because I’m gonna play with them at night.” We had our homework time. I’m not saying I was the perfect mother by any means, but to me it was important to attend when they were playing baseball or soccer or whatever it was. It’s interesting because I probably was gone too much, but when I was there I made sure that there was a lot of interaction, and I think my work ethic kind of rubbed off and maybe it wasn’t a good thing because my son and daughter have two jobs and stuff like that. But I’ll tell you what, they love school. And I think teaching at Weber State, as well as coming here, they all got their college degrees so I want to believe I was an example to them. They all have jobs and I told my daughters, “You know getting married is great but a man is not a life 33 insurance policy, you cannot depend on them for everything. I think it should be a partnership, but you need to be prepared just in case.” That’s the philosophy that we’ve lived with. They passed it on; I told ya I had a granddaughter that graduated with a master’s degree in accounting, and I’ve got two other grandkids going here. Going to college is really important and I think that I walk my talk. It was not easy balancing. And in fact, when I got my masters degree I was also working full time and had a baby about a month after I started my masters program. I do not recommend that. It was weird because once I graduated my husband says “Let’s sit down and watch T.V.” I caught myself from saying no I can’t sit down because I was so used to you don’t relax if you watch T.V, you iron, you fold clothes, you do something, like multitasking. You get up way early in the morning and you’re organized and you make sure that the kids have their breakfast, and you make sure that you’ve got everything all ready to go. You go through your schedule for the day to make sure everybody knows what’s going on, and we don’t miss this soccer practice or a game or whatever, so organization was huge. It was interesting my son was playing soccer, and he got injured and they pulled him out of the game. He says, “Mom I’ve got to finish this, I’ve got to finish this.” So I went, “Okay, go back out there.” Well after the games over he says, “Mom, my arm still hurts,” it was broken. I felt like the worst mother of the year, but he had to finish that up and sometimes your example I think helps. 34 LR: Thank you. I’m wondering, you’ve been an adjunct professor here at Weber State for quite some time, how has the campus changed? How has campus life changed in the time that you’ve been here? JS: This place has expanded, it’s amazing. I love the resources. I was going through my syllabus today and saying, “You can go to the library and these are the resources you can get, they are going to help you write your paper if you need it. Please use that in order to be able to make sure that it follows the APA format.” I mean, it’s so nice to be able to tell them all the resources that are available. They just announced the Doctorate in Nursing. When I was here they didn’t even have masters and now not only masters but there are so many more majors. The concurrent education, that class that I was in teaching this morning, it had three or four high school students in it. They told the class, “I’ll have my Associates degree by the time I graduate.” It was interesting watching, here was a mother of five children and on both sides of her were high school students. This other student goes, “Well I’m twenty-two, I’m old.” I’m going, “Yeah right,” but it was interesting because it is just so diverse and they learn off of each other. A much more complex, and diverse, obviously much bigger campus. I mean, when you’ve figured the Davis campus and they said that they were gonna have me teach on a Thursday night and then the next semester I just assumed, bad thing to do, that I was gonna teach Thursday night. Well, they switched me to Tuesday but didn’t say anything. I didn’t show up Tuesday. I had worked everything around teaching on Thursday, and so I said, “Can we switch it to Thursday?” There weren’t any rooms available, that’s how packed it was. So guess who did 35 the switching? I mean, the large number of students and frankly, it’s an awesome university. LR: Okay. I know I asked you earlier about who you looked up to as a young girl, so going throughout your career who were some of the mentors that you had? JS: Gee, there were so many. I was there when the first female judge came on board. That was exciting to see that happen… LR: What was her name? JS: I hope I don’t get this wrong, because one time, as time went on I had more and more that came on. I think it's Diane Wilkins and she did a very good job. There was also Judge Kathleen Nelson who was an excellent mentor and support to all the female employees. To see how that changed things, a different perspective that women actually could advance into, what shall I say, leadership positions. I made some waves. I made some people very unhappy because I was pushing for equal wages, and equal raises, and just real weird things like that. We hit the newspapers and all that good stuff so there were some people that weren’t very happy with me. But to me that’s what it was about, being appreciated for what you did and people seeing you as capable. To me, gender: that's not the big factor. The big factor is are you capable of doing the job? And if so, how well do you do it? Are you supportive of every person there to help them do the very best job? I’ve just found synergy, you know if we work together we could get so much more done versus if it’s this competition, or I can out do you, to see how having the right attitude and the comradery makes such a huge difference, and then your attitude towards those 36 people you work with. I had one probation officer that would call the probationers maggots. I’m like, “Excuse me, don’t ever say that. I don’t even care if you are kidding, that is wrong because that says there is a mentality there. They are individuals with a lot of capacity and you need to see that, and make sure you are letting them know that.” We need to support each other and see the potential and encourage, “Come on you can do this.” Correcting papers, you write comments, that’s why I like it when we did the hard copy type thing. But I had one student that I just put, “Oh gosh this is awesome you are so smart,”she told her sister I was the first person in her life that has said she was smart. I am like, “Are you kidding me?” Things that we may see as being little can make a huge difference in somebody’s life. The mentors that I had were the ones that said, “Come on we can do this.” The gentleman that I was telling you about, Dr. Craig Campbell. Anyway, the one that asked me to teach here, I owe him big time, because that opened a door for me that I just cannot thank him enough for that. Because I feel like he has helped me to feel so much better about what I’m doing and I think it helped me with my own children because to be able to learn to teach, to be more patient with my kids, I don’t expect them to automatically pick up on stuff. Number one, set the example. But number two, listen to them. That’s what amazes me, we teach them to talk but do we teach them to listen? Which is every bit as important. Another mentor at the University was the subsequent chair of the department, Dr. Chloe Merrill. She was also a great advocate and support. The mentors that I had—and frankly, there were some police officers 37 that were mentors. I was a reserve officer for five years and to be with them and watch them walk into dangerous situations and how they handled them. Some would walk in and ready to bash heads, others would walk in and they would talk to people in a quiet voice, and they would bring the situation down instead of escalating it. To me that was huge, so to watch how they did things was like, “Wow, awesome.” I had some great friends. I mean, a good friend hired me for Ogden City schools, Lana Dean, and to watch what she has done with her life, how she was able to overcome some major obstacle was amazing to me. I appreciated working for her. The YMCA, Marsha Prantil, she was and still is a good friend, and to watch what she had done, and the programs that she had started in the schools. She had been a part of the school district and saw a need for an afterschool program, because too many kids had nowhere to go after school, had nothing to do. She wanted to make sure that number one, they had a safe place to go, but number two, were learning, they were given help with their homework. My life’s been blessed with mentors. Frankly, some of the people that have worked for me have taught me a lot, through what they have been through and how they treat the people that they work with. One of the ladies, Dynette Stanger, that I promoted just before I left YCC, she was like, “We really need to make sure that we’re doing the most for everybody that we can.” She was one of the ones that really expanded the program to get money to help them with their housing and everything, and then because they had extra money for the grants, she applied and she got the computers that were needed. She maxed out the 38 resources. Don’t just stay in the rut and go along it and do what you have to do. Look for ways to do more, to do better, to really make sure that we’re getting the most out of our capability or our resources. It’s amazing what can happen. LR: I just have a few more questions. What does the term “women’s work” mean to you? JS: Women’s work? Everything in the world. I just see women’s work as making what needs to happen, happen. MK: Going back to Weber State, are you still at the Davis campus? Or have you taught there… JS: I’m teaching the Tuesday and Thursday class there at the Davis campus, and then the Wednesday night class I teach here. MK: How have you seen the Davis campus itself expand? JS: Huge! Now they have literal buildings. It used to be, I’d just go to high schools or they would have a strip mall with the class in one of the stores or something like that. Now you’ve got those great big buildings and they’re full. The class I taught today, they were waiting outside for me to hurry and finish my class so the next class could come, so it’s grown. I mean, it’s just exciting to see. My children and grandchildren lived in Davis County and they love the fact that there were going to be classes right there that they could access easily. Let’s face it, the freeways are a pain in the neck so to not have to travel all the time makes a difference. I just feel like that Weber State has reached out and said, “What can we do to make college education really meet the needs of the people, and have it easily accessed?” They’re really looking at the needs of the students, it isn’t all about 39 Weber State, it’s about the students and what they need. I just see some really good things that have happened here at Weber State, and like I said the Davis campus I think is really wonderful. It was interesting today, because we had an issue with our textbooks, getting the right edition, and anyway, one of the folks that I was talking to wasn’t aware that there was a library at the Davis campus, so it was a learning experience today. I just feel like we want to make sure that the resources are available and that the students know about them. They really encourage us to tell them what’s there, tell them how they can access it so that they know. LR: Okay, how do you think education empowers? JS: I think that number one, it teaches the essential things that too often they don’t know. I mean for instance, the big question that we’re supposed to be stressing in the human development class that I teach is that they get to know not only about others and their development but about themselves. Get to know yourself better, your capabilities, etc, etc. But also to have more compassion for each other. It’s raising our awareness of ourselves. I think that is so important and that it’s a positive awareness like, “You know what? I can do so many things, wow.” When I started out, I was going to be a nurse, and don’t get me wrong nurses are awesome, but it was like, “Oh blood. Oh yuck,” as I took these classes. I told you about the criminal justice class, I just thought, “Wow, I love that that is so exciting.” Find your passion, I think education helps you find your passion. You don’t settle for a job, “Well this will keep food on the table.” It's more about, “This will let me become the person I’m capable of becoming,” and you get to 40 understand people more to where you’re going, “Oh my gosh, that’s why they do that. Oh my, they’re this old and therefore, they don’t understand that people can change and be different.” It opens up worlds for them, and makes it so much more exciting. I literally had students say, “My relationships are so much better now,” when I taught the marriage class. Because they had to go out and actually apply the concepts and use them in their lives. It was so fun to watch the lights turn on for them. You don’t just read about it, but you actually go out and do it.” Then the volunteering. I would ask students to go out in the community and look at services for families, find out what was available. Some of them wanted to volunteer, so they got involved. To me, Weber State is a community college, and I mean that in the true sense of the word. They want to be a part of the community and they want to be out there making a difference. At the YCC, we had I don’t even know how many interns and the vast majority were from Weber State, they were actually out there doing it. I mean, two things. Number one, you can see if it really is a good fit, but number two, to go, “Wow, this is really amazing that we’re able to do this, and these services make such a huge difference.” Education to me, I can’t stress it enough and that’s why when my kids were growing up part of their allowance went to education. We told them, “Okay this money is for education, and if you get scholarships,” which they were fortunate they all did, “Then you get to use this money to buy a car, a house, whatever you want to do. But until then, you’ve got your education then that’s what it’s set aside for.” It was just a given that they would go onto college. So far 41 I haven’t heard any complaints from them because they have all been able to get really good jobs. Anyway, did I answer your question? LR: Yes you did. Okay, I keep saying that I only have a few more questions and I really do. Something that I noticed that you mentioned the last time we spoke was that everything in your career seemed to build upon another and that it was always a team effort. JS: Yes. LR: So if you were in a room with say your granddaughters and had an opportunity to talk to this group of women, what would you say to them as their mentor? JS: It would be, “What’s your dream? What would you like to have happen? Let’s talk about what resources there are. What can all of us do to help each other so that we can support and realize the dreams that are out there?” Kind of brainstorm, because to me it is interesting how some things maybe you never thought of before will come out and it’s like okay. To this day there’s still people that I talk to that I was a student here at Weber State with; John Valdez now works for the courts and Rich Dean was a police chief. Of course, police science, it was mostly guys and me, but we’ve stayed in touch because we supported each other and we say, “You go for it! You hang in there.” As I mentioned before, women just were not in police work, period, the end. I was the one that always was in a dress reading a book. My parents thought that I would be this sweet little librarian or something that is female-oriented, whatever you want to call it. When I said, “Yeah, I think I want to be a police officer,” they were like, “What happened to our little girl? ” I mean, they were just shocked, but it was like it grabbed me. That’s 42 what I think we can do for each other, and these guys encouraged me instead of going, “Hello, have you looked in the mirror? You’re a woman,” they said, “You do it, you go for it.” It was really cool to have that support and that is what I think we need to do. When I was at the courts and we were trying to get the equal pay and so on and so forth, same thing; working together we can hang in there, we’re gonna make this happen. I’m not gonna say it’s easy, but in a group it’s amazing how you can, “Hey, have you ever thought of this?” and “I’ll bet if you would take this class, or if you’ll do this, or if you’ll contact so and so, or I know these people you could talk to.” To this day, I’m getting requests from people that I knew years ago asking me to be a reference for them, or what do I think about going into this line of work? Why not reach out, support each other? I tell my granddaughters, “You live the dream. You find out what works for you and then I’ll support you anyway I can.” LR: Awesome, thank you. Last question I promise and it’s a question that we have asked every person that we have interviewed. How do you think women receiving the right to vote shaped or influence history, your community and you personally? JS: Having the right to vote to my way of thinking makes you a real citizen. Okay, until you have the right to have a say you are more of a spectator, versus having the right to vote makes you a part of the decisions that are made. I believe with all my heart that women that have helped shape this country even before they had the vote, ‘cause they were there, they were supporting. You can’t tell me one 43 war that those women weren’t in there fighting in their own way, standing up for what they believed in, supporting what the men were doing but also reaching out and doing extra things that I don’t think they ever got credit for. A lot of times they were raising the children. I’ve had a lot of jobs, the most difficult one I’ve ever had is raising children because there’s no guide book and every child is different. Let’s face it, do you ever know what your kids are going to do or say next? You think you know them so well then they say something and you go, “Really?” I feel like women have made a huge difference. I think it’s a partnership. Men have an important part in this world, absolutely. I don’t men-bash, because I think that it is essential that we work together. But I believe with all my heart the women have always been right up there and without them we would not be where we’re at today. I don’t care if it’s our country, our community, our homes, the university, whatever it is that women have been there. Let’s face it, if men had children I think we would have a lot fewer, because it is a pain. And when you think about what you go through to get children into the world and then to raise them? I just think that it is so important that we give everybody the credit they deserve and that everybody is encouraged that you don’t look at somebody, “You’re a woman,” type thing or “You’re a man, bless your heart.” We look at them and go, “I see you, I see Lorrie and I see all kinds of awesome things going on here.” [Pointing to Marina] I mean, let’s face it, look at how wonderful you look. Okay and inside it’s clicking and you got a lot of good things to do. That’s what we do 44 for each other. As far as I’m concerned, I have a lot of people to thank in my life and I’m hoping I’ve been able to give back a little bit. LR: From what I have heard, I think you most definitely have. JS: Thank you.