Oral History Program Kim Bowsher Interviewed by Sarah Storey 30 May 2019 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Kim Bowsher Interviewed by Sarah Storey 30 May 2019 Copyright © 2022 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Beyond Suffrage Project was initiated to examine the impact women have had on northern Utah. Weber State University explored and documented women past and present who have influenced the history of the community, the development of education, and are bringing the area forward for the next generation. The project looked at how the 19th Amendment gave women a voice and representation, and was the catalyst for the way women became involved in the progress of the local area. The project examines the 50 years (1870-1920) before the amendment, the decades to follow and how women are making history today. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Bowsher, Kim, an oral history by Sarah Storey, 30 May 2019, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Kim Bowsher Circa 2019 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Kim Bowsher, conducted on May 30, 2019, in the Stewart Library, by Sarah Storey. Kim discusses her life, her memories, and the impact of the 19th Amendment. Alexa Chadwick, the video technician, is also present during this interview. SS: Today is May 30th and it is approximately 3:30 pm and we are in the Stewart Library and we have here Kim Bowsher. Interviewing her is Alexa Chadwick and recording is Sarah Story. Go ahead. AC: Ok, so the first question is when and where were you born? KB: I was born in Brimmerton, Washington, which is just across the water from Seattle. May 1986. I just turned 33. AC: Ok. What made you move to Utah? KB: My husband’s job, is national and they had a plant here and they moved us from Washington to Ogden. Up until then we only knew of Weber State as “Webber” State because we were in the final four, or in the NCAA at one point when we used to live back home. AC: When you were a young girl, who were some of the women that you looked up to and why? KB: So, when I was really young, I would say my mom, first and probably foremost. My mom is a business owner and has been my whole life. And I grew up... my parents were divorced when I was five, so I grew up mainly with my mom and then during that divorce process, we ended up moving in with my grandparents, because my grandma was diagnosed with cancer. And those two women, and 2 my grandma on the other side, are all incredibly strong in very different ways and how they show their strength and what they use that strength to accomplish is really fascinating to me, even now as an adult looking back. My one grandma on my dad’s side is a mom of six and is very much like the Navy, stereotypical, but the woman travelled with all six of those kids camping and kept an orderly house. I have two boys now and I have no idea how she managed to A) set aside... she set aside—she paid for me to go to college, the last two years of my degree and I have no idea how... I was a grandkid, like one of 32. So I don’t know how she managed to set aside money for any of us, but this woman was anchored in what she really believed in accomplishing. And then my mom with her business and just being very kind-hearted and committed to, my mom struggled with money forever, and paid for me to go to private school because she thought that that was the right thing. I hated it, but she thought that was the right thing and you know, I watched her work and suffer to pay those tuition rates and I would cry and say, “Don’t make me go there!” And “It would be so much cheaper!” But she really believed that that was right and what was best for me, and I have a lot of respect for that now. And then my grandma that’s her mom is this totally different, kind of curmudgeon of a woman, but is this battle axe of “This is what we’re doing.” And just totally different than my other grandma and what she cared about and accomplished, but they all have done those things and I think that’s pretty cool. Later on in life, I would say, when I was in high school, I probably didn’t have as many women role models because I just didn’t have that around me. 3 Like, I didn’t have people in my life that were pointing out women to me, so I didn’t know or understand the dynamics of female mentorship or leadership and I mean that was a big loss for me, and I didn’t have that again until—besides my family—really until we moved here and I joined the Junior League. And those women in particular are very much role models to me now. AC: How do you think the role of mothers has changed? KB: Oh, gosh. I think that very stereotypically or anecdotally we talk about, “We wanted it all and then we could have it all.” People attributed a lot of that to birth control, so you could have your career and plan out your family more. And then now they say, “Well, you can’t really have it all and you shouldn’t want to have it all.” So I think it’s kind of interesting, generationally, you had women who weren’t supposed to work, and then you sort of had women who were supposed to work and be a mom, and now you’re kind of seeing this divergence where it’s ok to say you don’t want to be a mom at all, or you want to be a career focused mom, that’s becoming more acceptable. I think even now, like, I’m a mom of two boys and I work... I have three businesses that I run. And there’s still plenty of judgment, like “You work too much and you’re not home with your kids,” and I still think people are very critical in different pockets, “Well, a stay-at-home isn’t a working mom.” Well, I don’t want to be a stay-at-home mom, that’s way more work than I want to do. And I just have so much respect for that. We’re at a place where there’s more opportunity for moms to be different types of moms, but I think there’s still some of that counter-culture that you have to fight against. It’s becoming less, but... yeah, I think the role of moms... my mom really set the tone 4 for me, and because I lived with her, she ran our household and her business and budgeting and finances and things like that, so I didn’t have that stereotypical male center. And in our house, I do that too, I run our money budget for our family, but I think people think it’s funny. I have my own money and Nick, my husband, has his own money, we don’t split. I don’t know, I think the role of “mom” is much more of a nebulous, because it’s like, well you as a family... You just have to talk about the change in the family unit overall to answer that question, because in my house it looks a specific way because we’re very equitable in our share of roles and what I can bring to the table versus what Nick can bring to the table, it’s probably not the same as other people’s households, regardless of gender and everything else. AC: And why do you think that is? KB: In my household or universally? AC: In your household. KB: So I think that you pick a partner that suits you and Nick and I have worked really hard to be respectful of each other’s skill sets and then lack thereof. He’s really good about being fun and making things fun all the time, whereas I tend to get a little bit too serious and maybe too focused on the end result. But the harmony of those two things is that we can set goals and accomplish them but have a ton of fun along the way because he softens me, the edges there, right. But then there’s other ways where I’m his counterbalance. We’ve been married for, we just celebrated our ten year anniversary and we’ve gone through a lot together, even before that ten years and I think that’s what works for us. I don’t know that 5 that’s necessarily what works for everyone. This man deserves a lot of credit for the things I get public credit for because he’s there picking up the pieces when I stay at work late. He’s not one of these men that is like, “When are you going to be home and make dinner?” If I’m going to be working late, then I’ll text him like, “I’m stuck here, sorry,” you know, and he’s got dinner ready and waiting when I get home, so I think that shift and trade off has allowed both of us to become the people that we are and I’m a very strong and independent woman and I like to be, “I could do all of these things,” but he deserves a lot of that credit too, cause he’s been fluid and flexible in giving me that space to accomplish those things. AC: How would you say you handle the criticism of people saying that you need to stay at home with your kids more and not work? KB: Yeah, I don’t really care about that at all. The thing that gets to me the most is the subtle nuances of things that get said to my kids. That upsets me because, and I’ll give you a really good example. My kids are in gr—they just finished 2nd and 6th grade. And my 2nd grader came home about two months ago with a paper that was asking “your mom” to chaperone a field trip. And it was specifically stated that way in the classroom and on the little pamphlet about it and that frustrated me because, I’ve already had to fight that already like, “You can ask your dad to,” but when it says this specific callout on their mom, he’s like “Well, they said to ask my mom.” And I couldn’t go, and then he’s devastated that I can’t go and why can’t I be like one of these other moms. So those things are these little nuances that I wish that people would understand how hurtful and hard that makes things, cause if it just had been more generic... I‘ve already had 6 to have that, you know, with my boys to say, “It could be either of us and maybe none of us.” But that, when it’s particular like that or... there’s other things that come up, like doctors appointments and... it’s always like “mom” things. In our house, it isn’t that way, but I’m the first one to get called because that is still kind of a societal norm and I wish that it wasn’t. So I don’t really care about what people say directly to my face or maybe behind my back, because my life feels good for our family and I know that I’m a good parent to my kids, but some of those things make it difficult for them because then they feel like I’ve dropped off the board in some ways, if that makes sense. AC: Were you encouraged to pursue an education? KB: Yeah, absolutely. So, both my parents have college degrees and my mom is an interior designer, but she has a degree, a five-year degree in design and my dad actually has two juris doctorates and so I can’t remember a time when my parents weren’t like... that was just the natural order of things, you’d graduate from high school and you would go to college. It wasn’t a conversation, it was... that’s just what you’ll do. And I remember my dad would always take me to—my dad went to school many places—but one that he spent time at was the University of Washington and so when I was young he would take me to the library there or just to walk the quad. And to experience what that felt like and I definitely made my own decision in where I went to school, but I did go to the University of Washington and, my kids actually tonight, my son is starting Weber Prep program here—just as a side note to my interview, I think that bringing kids on campus for different things and just exposing them to what this life looks like, I 7 think is huge in natural progression. And like, I want my kids to go to college absolutely, more so than the degree... And another thing I should say: I knew I was going to go to college, but I also was never pressured to pick a degree that meant anything. Like, my parents were very focused on me going to college for the overall experience of it, so when I talk to my kids, too, I think college for me was a place where I learned how to be an independent adult and to live on my own and formulate friendships outside of the standardized classroom setting and you know, it was a very good time in my life and I want that for my kids too. More so than the paper at the end, I think gathering those life experiences and, like you said, “This class interested me, so I want to do that.” I’m a history major and people are like “Well, what did you intend to do with that?” And like... I intended to learn history.” I’m interested in history and that’s what I wanted to do. People ask me how I use my degree today and I say, “I learned how to read and write and research and formulate an opinion and I have a pretty strong opinion, so I think I’m doing a good job.” AC: So what were the career options once you had your degree? KB: I think I had a lot of options in terms of... I don’t know where that comes from, if it as like elementary school or my parents or just college in general, I just always felt like... and maybe this is a white privileged piece of it too, because I always just felt like I could do anything I wanted. If I just worked at it, you know. And so I graduated with that degree and I worked at the original Starbucks in Seattle while I was in school—I actually had three jobs the whole time I was in school. I just did everything I could to pay for everything, but when I did go to get a real job, it was 8 interesting to me because I had always just felt like I could do whatever I wanted, and I met with like a career advisor at that point, like one of those... like career builders. And she was like “You have no marketable experience or anything.” And I was like, “Oh... Ok...” But I ended up running, because of that, I ended up with a really good job at an architecture firm and I, you know, ended up being an office administrator and then a project manager and then managing this entire firm and, I don’t know, maybe I was really lucky but it worked out. Probably a lot of luck. AC: What were some of the challenges you faced while obtaining your degree? KB: Well, I got pregnant... so my husband and I were not married at the time. I got pregnant my junior... the end of my junior year like Christmas time of my junior year, so I actually had our son, MacKenzie, I had him just after the end of my junior year. He was born in July. And so that quarter and being big and pregnant on campus was just this horrifying thing to me. Looking back on it, I’m like, “It probably wasn’t that weird for people,” but I just felt like I had this giant dartboard on me or something. But I went to school and everyone was very nice to me and my professors were very understanding. I didn’t miss anything, I can’t remember ever missing anything substantial. But I just remember that I was embarrassed to be pregnant and at school, but I did it. And then my senior year was really hard because then we had a newborn. But we made it work and I would say the only thing that really sucked, and this is such a funny thing, I couldn’t finish a language requirement, which I had to do in order to graduate. And the classes were not offered in a time frame that made sense with having a kid. And so I 9 could either do this intensive program that was like 5 hours a day all summer long, but paying for childcare like that would have priced me out of going to school, so I ended up finishing my language requirements through a community college that would transfer over and so it took me an extra year. AC: Ok, so what made you choose your degree? You were interested in history, were there other things that you were interested in? KB: So, I actually hated history when I was in elementary school and I remember at one point I thought—I always got really good grades in elementary, and then in, I think junior high, it must have been junior high, I got a D in history. And my dad was like, “You will make this right.” And he made me—my dad was very strict and severe, that makes it sound like he abused me, which he didn’t, he was just like “This is the way it’s going to be.” And he made me study and study and study and study, and I hated it, but I got an A. And then I went the next year into... so then you switch schools, right? And I had this awesome teacher, and she was the drama teacher and the history teacher, and so she would just... she did was she called “story time.” Do you watch Game of Thrones? She would straight up tell history stories like the plot of Game of Thrones. So she would sit there and she had voices and would do this, “And then King Whatever did this, but secretly over...” and it was very much like the way that... And she did this awesome job and it just really, all of sudden it wasn’t just dates and facts that I was remembering or trying to memorize to pass a test, it was fully comprehensive to me and I got it. So I think I owe that to her. She sold me on understanding history and I also really loved politics and so when I went to 10 school, I did History with a focus on US history, but you have to do all of it. And then I also did a minor in Poli-Sci and the Classics. Which is kind of a funny combination. But I grew up very Christian... my school was Christian private school and very religious household, and so going into this University setting was very liberal and having history presented in a different way, and then the politics, the Classics was very off-limits for me growing up. That was stupid nonsense, but you can see a lot of similarities in the Classics and how people tried to understand their world-view systems or put things into place and some of the stories you tell yourself whether that’s a known fact. People connect to stories because it helps them understand some situation they’re in currently or trying to get to. And so those three things combined I think have helped shape a lot, even today, of the way that I work through things that happen in the office or with my job, ironically, I guess. AC: Ok, so you talked about the Junior League of Ogden. What made you want to join that and how did you hear about that? KB: Yeah, so I first moved here in 2011 and I was doing freelance writing and I had a blog series that was called “Smalltown, USA” and basically as my husband and I would travel, I would make a point of interviewing local businesses in these kind of Main Street communities. And so when we moved here, the natural one is Historic 25th Street and so I started meeting with business owners to interview them about why they had chosen a business here and kind of put in that, I actually met with Sarah Singh at that time, that’s how I met her, and I had this chance meeting with Kym Buttschardt, who owns Rooster’s,—we went to a 11 movie at the Megaplex and we had gotten drinks at the Sonora beforehand, and this woman was getting a margarita while her kids were checking in at the movie and I’m like, “I love this woman.” My husband ended up talking to her and just, “Oh, this is Rooster’s,” and that was someone who I had wanted to meet, so she gave me her card and I set up a time to interview her, and when I met with her, I don’t know if you know her, but when I met with her to interview her, she interviewed me and was like, “What do you need? What are your life goals? Where do you want to go? Are you happy here? Do you have what you need?” Like... “Who is this lady?” And I didn’t know anyone in town, because we had just barely moved here, and she was like, “You need to get involved in the Junior League and you need to know these women,” so she sent me to a party—as much as I knew of the Junior League was from the movie “The Help” which is not fantastic... that’s like Southern Junior League, they’re very like old school Junior League like... pension, for discrimination, so I was like... “I don’t know about this.” But this woman was so awesome, I’m like, “Ok, I’ll go.” And I went to a holiday party that they were having and I had to go by myself and introduce myself, just show up. She was like “You need to go to this party,” and I was like “Sure, I’ll go,” and then she was like, “Ok, I can’t go, but here’s the address.” And so I showed up by myself and I’ve never really had a lot of close female friendships and so I was really dreading this, going into this party full of just women “What am I doing?” But I figured, “I don’t know anyone here, if it’s awkward I can just leave and that’ll be the end of it.” But I was fascinated from the get-go with these women, because they weren’t talking about dumb crap, you know, what TV 12 shows, whatever—you know, just the dumb small talk, it wasn’t any of that. They were talking about their work life, or one of them just published a book and one was working on a PR project with their firm and... they weren’t like, “Oh, I’m doing blah blah blah,” it wasn’t stuck up at all it was like, “Hey!” They were checking in on each other, really, they’re like “Hey, how’s your thing doing with this?” Then they were talking and I’m just sidelining listening to all of this in absolute amazement. Like, “I want to be one of these women. I need to know these people.” And so I got involved really right away and just kind of jumped in, I ended up on the board by accident because someone had moved away and there was this open position and they asked if I could step in, so I ended up on the board almost immediately, within like, I don’t know, less than a year. And then I was on the board for five, six years and ended up serving as president in... What year is it right now? So I was president in 2017-18 year. So I’m now past-president, once removed. AC: Ok, so I did a little bit of reading about it. They do programs? Tell me about what you did. KB: Yeah, so the Junior League is one of oldest organizations in Ogden. It originally was the Martha Society, and actually Sarah Singh has done an awesome job of archiving our history. She takes stuff from us every year. But basically the League is a part of a national organization. The mission statement is “Promoting voluntarism, developing the potential of women—” so there’s this significant leadership development component, and then, “—improving the community.” So the projects that the League, any League chapter in the country, takes on is 13 relevant to their community in the moment. So when you look at the work the Junior League of Ogden is doing, it’s kind of like, “Wow, they’re all over the board,” because we have women and children’s health center services, we have Oasis Community Garden, which is a community garden, we have a festival out there every summer, and we have a human trafficking campaign going on right now, where there’s been education around that. So you’re like “What is the bottom line?” Well, it’s to take a look at your community and A) learn how to understand what’s happening in your community and identify issues, which is the leadership piece and then how can you resolve or support the resolution of some of these issues. And so, every year, the League analyzes their programs and projects and says, “Ok, have we made progress on something, should it become its own—” like the Nature Center was a project that was incubated through Junior League and now it’s its own non-profit. Oasis is kind of a similar thing, where it’ll eventually be its own. Women’s and Children’s Health Connection now is Midtown. So we still support down there but it’s its own thing. And so really it’s looking at “Ok, what are the shifting needs of the community?” and being responsive to that and we ask our women to put those programs together and figure out how to do it... what is the program, how do you fund it, go find the funding. I think everyone thinks Junior League has a ton of money, we don’t. And so every year, it’s like, “Ok, here’s what we need to do,” and you work so hard to raise that money to be able to make impact, significant, lasting impact in those projects and needs. It’s a really cool thing to be a part of and one thing that I find 14 fascinating, so there’s like layers to this, right? That first year, the year a Junior League member is called a provisional year and it’s sort of like a trial run where you can, you go—as a provisional member, you go to meetings, you participate, you help curate a project and pull it off, and then you graduate. But it’s really for you to say like, “Yeah, I want to be a part of this and I have something to learn here and I have something to give here.” And so, then after that you become an active member and then you do all... you have a job title and placement and everything, skills training in that and then you can become like alumnae, we call “sustainers.” And so the biggest thing to me... it’s hard because I actually have said, “There’s not a single thread in my life I can’t attribute to being better because of the Junior League.” Like, I can’t find a single thread that I can’t attribute to Junior League making it better. But it’s hard for me to say, succinctly. My favorite is the sustainers because you look at these women who were a part of the League in the last 40 years or more and they started the Nature Center, or they started what is Midtown, or they started Weber County’s Guardian Ad Litem Program, which is for foster care in court services. And you think about things that you read in the news or women who have started something or you see the end result and you put these people on a pedestal because you’re like “I wish I could be as cool as that and implement a policy,” or whatever and the Junior League provides this incredible structure and framework where now you’re having coffee with these women or lunch with these women or you’re at a holiday social with these women, and it takes that entire barrier of like that pedestal piece of where you’re 15 like, “I wish I could be like someday,” you know, you see people on Instagram or whatever that you might look up to, and you only see that piece, you don’t see their real trueness, and this takes all that away and now all of a sudden, you’re sitting face to face with someone who is a real actual human being and you realize, “Oh my God, they’re just like me, I’m just like them, they’re a normal person.” And that is a really... someone could tell you that in a meeting, like “You can do anything!” But to actually have that one on one or direct... it’s a whole other sense of understanding that, where you’re like... it gives you this incredible level of confidence because you think “I could do this.” And you hear them say, “Well, how did you start the Dental Days program?” “Oh, well, we were on a camping trip all together and we were having coffee and had talked about how there had been articles in the newspaper about how there had been all these problems and kids were missing school because they had dental problems and we were like, ‘We should probably do something about that,’ so we talked about it over coffee camping and then when we got back we were like ‘Let’s present it to the board,’ and then we did this—” and you’re like, “That’s like what we do.” You know? It just gives you this sense of capacity that I don’t think you get from a lot of other experiences. And to be able to talk to someone who’s gone through something already and then there’s this other side too where the level of friendship you’re developing in actually doing those projects together is insurmountable. So, again, I can’t... I have to say, like my marriage, my kids, my work life, my businesses, all of those, you know, my friendships, all of those 16 facets of what makes your life, have been impacted positively by my experience with the League. And it feels weird to me right now because I’m not as involved as I was when I was on the board and everything else. So I feel like I’ve graduated from high school, you know how weird that felt when you’re like “I don’t go to school every day anymore,” I’m kind of in that weird feeling right now, but like this year I’m a provisional trainer, so I got to teach and train the upcoming, like next group and that was a really cool experience for me too. You should join. AC: So, you’re part of the Ogden Downtown Allegiance. KB: The Ogden Downtown Alliance is... so I started the Downtown Alliance in 2016. I originally was working with the Historic 25th Street Association, because of that Main Street America, Smalltown, USA and Main Streets, I ended up meeting business owners who are a part of the Historic 25th Street Association, I ended up volunteering with them to do some marketing work and then in doing that... I have a marketing business. So in both in marketing with them as a volunteer and in my marketing business, when you meet with people and you’re like, “Well, what is the goal of your marketing? And what do you want to grow and what are the metrics you’re looking for?” And when people can’t answer those things, you start to realize it’s not just the marketing that’s the problem, it’s the internal structure or the business plan as a whole. And so the work that my business kbENT does on the marketing side has this business development capacity because it was like necessitated. So that is duplicated on the Historic 25th Street side, we’re like, “We’ll market, we’ll do some stuff for you,” but then you realize 17 there’s this entire structural side that needs to be revisited. And so myself and a contractor I was working with, we ended up doing this whole needs assessment for what the Historic 25th Street Association was going through and how could this become a sustainable operation for the long run. And so we completely revamped how that association operated and it was several years of conversation, but we were basically realizing 25th Street wasn’t enough. Like it couldn’t just be that as downtown, and there were other things that needed to come together, and so we realized that there needed to be this umbrella organization. And so we, for a long time would talk about, “Well, who should that umbrella organization be? Is it the city, is it Visit Ogden, does 25th Street become that?” And there were so many different viewpoints, I guess, and people were trying to protect things but also move it forward and so you feel frustrated sometimes. And I went to a conference that was in September of 2015 and I was sitting there in this thing and this guy was talking about... I don’t even know, his presentation was on financial capacity, which had nothing do with where he was talking, but he said he had gone to a meeting and asked the mayor, “When are you going to clean up this town?” And the mayor was like, “I don’t know, when are you?” And he’s like, “Oh. I could do this.” And he started a program that was called “Brooms on Broadways,” it’s in Green River, Utah, and I just remember being in that space and having this total epiphany of like, “No, it’s us.” And I called this guy I’d been working with, kind of a business partner at the time and I called him and I was like, “We need to talk about this.” And the very next day we met and I said, “It’s us. We need to do this and we need to put it 18 together.” And we called some people from the 25th Street Association and kind of this like initial board, if you will and said, “Here’s what we think,” and they were like, “Yeah. This is it.” And they were people who had been a part of all these other conversations and we were like, “This is what we need to do.” And it all just kind of clicked all at once and so we then took this plan to the city mayor’s office. Which, I was 26 at the time—you’ll have do the math on that, I think was 26 at the time—it was 2015, so I’m 33 right now, so I was 29. I was 29 at the time and I requested a meeting with the mayor which is like, “What was I thinking?” that I needed to do that, or deserved to and they let us come and so we presented this idea. I had been in his office at other times, so we presented this idea and we were like, “We think it should be this umbrella organization and it should be built like this and these are the components that there needs to be and you should give us money.” And um, ok. So they thought that it was a great idea and they said, “Yes, this is a good idea, you need to come present it to other people.” And so I had to go back and present to... so I had this board, they weren’t a board officially yet, but they were helping craft and curate and pushing things along to help with like, “What’s the optics of it, what are the political things you need to know about and understand to really craft this solid plan?” But then what the presentations happened it was, like, me in the room with people and so they asked me—the mayor and chief administrative officer asked me to come back and present to the directors, which was like twelve white men. A bunch of men older than me. And I gave this presentation, the same exact presentation I had 19 given to the mayor’s office and they were silent the whole time, which is terrifying, you know, you feel like... there’s no head nodding, there’s no “Oh, mmhmm,” nothing. So I’m like, “Well, I’m done now. Any questions?” And it was just like silent. And I thought, “Oh, no.” And then all of a sudden, the Chief of Fire, he started to ask questions. And they were really good questions, they weren’t just like shoot it down, or negative, or here’s what I see wrong. They were just really good questions and then the whole table kind of started to have that similar dialogue of just input and it was very good and I thought, “Oh my gosh, wow.” You know, they listened to me and they took me seriously and they gave me that space. One of those things again where I just felt really lucky to have that opportunity. So they said yes, but then they said, “But we can’t just give you money, because that’s not how things work. It needs to go out to bid.” And I didn’t understand that and to me it felt like they were saying, “This is a really good idea, but you can’t possibly execute on it.” And so they sent it out to bid and they invited people nationally and locally both in the public bid process, but then they also like direct sent to other organizations and said, “Would you put a proposal together for this?” And I felt like I had this baby that was being, just, stabbed to death. And it was really emotional for me. Looking back on that now, it wasn’t that much time, but it felt like eons of time and space and just painstakingly waiting for an answer and so we put together a proposal and we put together a budget and who would be our subcontractors—like all the things. And then submitted and then there were other 20 organizations submit, and we ended up being selected for interviews so we would go and interview and go up against these other... And, so we won that contract for a single year. And my business was the one that won that contract, so that was the entity that was contracted for a year... the contract was to develop an alliance and so, then we were tasked with developing the organizational structure but also putting a Board of Directors in place, so we had to create a non-profit, put a real Board of Directors in place, all of that is hugely time consuming in and of itself. But we had a year to do that and to do a needs assessment of the entire downtown, so we met with a bunch of people, took pictures of every point of entry or blank space or ugly place, anything in downtown and we did this strategic planning with our Board, what was our year one priorities. So what would year one be, what would two to five years look like, and then what’s beyond five, and then we had a whole column that’s like, “Problems, but not ours,” and we like pink dotted anything that was someone else, but that we would want to loop in with to make sure that those pieces, because they supported the rest. So we did that and then we put together a plan, we had to put together a budget and say what we would actually ask for from the city in terms of funding and then how we would pay for the rest. And I personally lost $20,000 from my business because I had no idea the scale of what I was saying yes to in that first year, and so our contract was for only $70,000 for a year, but I had three people on staff to pull this off, and so I paid for the difference of that because I didn’t want to... I felt that it was worth seeing it through and doing it right to prove that it 21 deserved it in the future. But I’m young, I don’t just have money, so that was really, really hard because that meant... that was my paycheck that took that difference out of it. You know, it was scary. It was really stressful and emotional and... we had a lot of people who were on board and they were great, they were really great supporters and advocates, but then, I take negativity even now some much to heart and so, you know, one in fifty people might say something negative, but it’s that that stands out to me and that I take home and ruminate over. And when you’re doing change like that, you get a lot of that. And so I’m like, “I’m broke right now, I’m stressed all the time, and this person is mad that we’re not buying billboards and we don’t have any money!” But it was a good learning experience and we put in for the next year and I’m really proud of what... it’s now 2019, so that 2016 was year zero, 17, 18, 19, 1, 2, 3. We’re just still a baby, but I am so proud of the work that that organization has done already and the doors that it's opened for collaborative pieces that have... we’ve really done a lot of work to create pathways for other people to succeed and that is probably most important... even though we don’t get any credit for that. And that’s fine. We don’t report on that in our annual report, but those are the pieces I think are the most rewarding to me, because you get to see people who have this incredible passion for something and they can do it because there’s framework there. And that really excites me. I’m just excited. One of the things that Mayor Caldwell said to me when we started all of this, “I’m very excited for what you’ve presented and what you’ve outlined here, but it’s the exponential of once you start working and the things that it will open 22 you up to and open up together that I’m most excited for.” And he’s right. And that has already shown even just in this short amount of time. So I am, I’m excited. I can’t wait to be retired and walking through downtown at an event or whatever and “Someone else is doing this and it’s still...” You know, it was built in a way that people wanted to see it through and keep it going and I can’t wait for that day where it’s just like... it’s its own animal that runs and continues on. That’s my highest point at the end when I can walk through, as this old woman and no one knows me, and it’s still just this beautiful downtown and all these pieces buzzing in harmony and that’s really exciting to me. There are a lot of organizations that have come together to accomplish their piece of the puzzle and collectively, We’ve all created a lot of change downtown. And out of downtown too. AC: Alright, so tell me about your three businesses. KB: I only own two businesses and then I run the Downtown Alliance, I’m on staff for the Alliance. After, kbENT had that management contract for a year and then it was to become its own entity and so then Ogden Downtown Alliance, the Board asked me to stay on as a staff person, and I had built my company which is called kbENT and I had said, “I don’t want to leave that,” and they said, “You don’t need to.” So I work for the Downtown Alliance. I run my business outside of those hours. kbENT is my own business which was started in the end of 2014 and I was freelance before that, so just marketing and PR and like I said, we kind of segued into business development because of something... you can’t really market if people don’t have a business structure that will A) provide a solid 23 product or experience at the end of it, and then B) If you can’t fulfill the orders right. Then there’s this other side where even before all that, you can’t show a return on an investment you don’t have goals and metrics, just throwing money at the wind. We do a lot of business coaching, business development and training and this last year we partnered Ogden City to facilitate a “Business Boot Camp” that is six weeks long and at the end of it, graduates are a qualified business to apply for Ogden City Small Business Loan Program, which is up to $90,000. This just started that in the fall of 2018… and we’ve had nine business graduates, two have not applied for funding yet but all of the seven that have applied have been fully funded. So that’s pretty cool. Let’s see, we work with small businesses and nonprofits. I’m very particular about developing ad budgets that are very thrifty and grass-roots, that’s kind of what we’ve built ourselves on and continue to do even though we have national, major clients now. We’re kind of known for our spend-worthiness and our ad builds. Yep. I love it. My other business, my husband and I just bought the Wildflower Outdoor Series, which is two women’s only bike events, one’s a trail ride at Powder Mountain, and the other one is a road ride in Morgan. I have extensive event planning background because of the work with the Alliance, we both love bikes, and my husband is a logistics superman. We wanted something that we could work on together and also that could support funds for our retirement and kids going to college. This is a project that we are 24 just barely getting started on. We bought it at the end of October. It's kind of exciting. It’s different from everything else we do. AC: Alright, so what was your first job? KB: My first job was working for my mom. When people ask me how much marketing background I have, I’m like... “Well, I’ve been doing it since I was seven.” My first job was working for her, and I would put mailing labels on things and I’d get paid a penny a piece, and then I asked for a raise, I got a nickel a piece. As I got older, I wanted to do more campaigns and so the first thing I ever remember doing as a “campaign,” I did a Fourth of July thing. She had an interior design business and we did this Fourth of July campaign and I designed these really cute little planter pots that had an American flag in it with our business offer as a flower, was super cute. It was just really well done, I think, well, I don’t know, in my memory that young, maybe. But it worked. I wish it was commission based, because she probably got over $100,000 in design contract work just in that first weekend of that campaign rolling out. And we had spent like... I don’t know, $150. Very little money. So that was cool, and I just had kind of done more of that, and I ended up doing that when I was at an architecture firm. My first “job” job, that was like a paycheck, I worked at a Safeway as a courtesy clerk, which is a fancy term for bagging groceries. And then I got a promotion to bakery specialist, which is a fancy word for “making announcements that the bread is hot and ready,” and also giving out samples. I wanted to work at Starbucks and I would show up to their job fairs all the time and you had to be sixteen and I was only fifteen, fifteen- 25 and-a-half. I wanted that so bad. But Safeway would hire you younger, so I ended up working there. And then I found out, like I was making probably, I don’t know... minimum wage. And then I found out the cashier’s were making like $16 an hour, which was I think double what I was making. That sounded like so much to me, so I met with my manager who was this awesome guy, and I was like, “Hey, I want this other job. I work really hard and you’ve given me great reviews. I want to make that much money.” I remember he sat me down, his name was Miguel, and he said, “You could do that job, you’re right. But you need to go to college and you need to continue with this path that you’re already on. If you make this much money now, you’ll get distracted by that and you won’t go.” And he said, “These people who are here, this is where they’re going, you have other things and you need to stay that course.” I was so frustrated by that. I just wanted it, “But I’m doing a good job, I should get this...” Now though, I have so much respect for that conversation because A) he was protecting people who needed that money more than I did as a teenager. And B) he was protecting my future and saying to me, “Yeah, money is great right now, but you have more important things to focus on.” That’s really kind of rare, I think, in a management side of things, where people aren’t just looking at their bottom line, he was caring about me as a person, and that’s pretty cool. So I continued as a bakery specialist, making announcements about bread.. AC: What was your motivation to go into your chosen field? KB: I can remember always just being like, “I want to be a boss.” I don’t know if I was a bratty kid that was like, bossy back then. I remember I wanted it. Like at my 26 preschool, I have this picture of myself in this little receptionist stand, and I always loved paper supplies, like office supplies and stuff. I wanted to be a receptionist, I would tell people, “I want to be a receptionist when I grow up.” They’d ask, “Why do you want that?” “Cause I want to be in charge.” And people would laugh at me, I guess a receptionist isn’t in charge, but that’s what it looked like to me. My dad was a lawyer and had a law firm and these women ran the office, so it looked like they were in charge to me. And I just remember thinking, “I’m going to have my own business I just don’t know what it’s going to be.” I don’t know... my mom tells me I used to give speeches to my stuffed animals downstairs. I have no idea what I was talking about. So I don’t know, I honestly think that this is my life calling and it’s just... I’ve gotten here. I can’t explain that. I wasn’t like, “I’m going to create a non-profit and run that.” No, I don’t know. I’m sorry, that’s a horrible answer. AC: No, it’s a great answer. KB: It’s the truth for me. This is what I am supposed to be doing. AC: Alright, when as there a time that you were brave at work? KB: I think I have to be brave a lot of the time. I’m young. And I remember being a manager, I was in manager training at Starbucks, so when you’re doing that you go through these different levels, so like you’re a shift lead and then you’re assistant store manager, or whatever, I forget all the different things, but each time you jump a level, you have to move to a new store, so you’re faced with different challenges. I got to the highest, I was going to be, before being a manager on my own, and I was moved to a store that had an employee—I was, 27 my employee number was like 137892 or something like that, so 137,000. And this man there was, his employee number was 000009. And so this man... was not interested in being bossed around by anyone. Things had changed in the company since he’d started, but he was still doing things the old way. That was really eye opening to me because it was the first time I was personally confronted with this concept, “I’m in charge, but you’re older than me.” And he has technically more clout than me in this particular role. That was hard. It was... he wasn’t mean to me, it was just I didn’t feel validated in confronting him on anything, so I had to learn how to do that. Again, I feel like I was very lucky that I had that framework, because I think back to that moment a lot of the times when I’m in meetings now with department directors or anyone, really. I’m frequently in a room with people who are older than me or more have more longevity in a position than I do and I have to have an opinion that sometimes is different or contrary to theirs and I think that initial, “Let’s make this latte different,” was a good base for learning how to have those uncomfortable conversations. I also feel really grateful that, for the most part here, there’s open reception for that. I think being brave, that’s my biggest thing is finding that balance in that, I could be very bull-headed and that’s more natural to me. Or being more politically aligned, I hate being politically correct, I want to get stuff done, but my job requires me to take that bull-headed “see it through” -ness, and combine it with the political correctness to walk that line very carefully. I think that requires “brave” all the time. Brave to be quiet sometimes 28 and brave to be vocal sometimes. I struggle with both those things in the right... balance. I’m still learning. AC: As a woman, how do you define “courage?” KB: I think courage has this other word assigned to it too and that’s resiliency. Because I think it’s really easy to be bold once, right? And then have some success and be bold again. I think courage really comes when you have failed or you’ve come up against a wall or been defeated in some way and that you keep going. I think courage as a woman can show up in so many different arenas, in everything. Courage to continue to show up at everything that you do in all these different ways. You’re supposed to be happy all the time, you know, as a woman, I think you’re supposed to smile, you’re supposed to have your hair done, your eyebrows.... and courage is to show up on those days when you’re not and to be able to say, “I’m not quite there, but I’m here.” I think that requires courage too. And just keeping going. I like this artist, his company’s called.... Story People. And I have this print of a dragon and a little prince and it says, “Anyone can slay a dragon, but it’s... showing up to the world with love and kindness again the next day that requires a true hero.” And I think that. Courage is that resiliency and bounce-back-ness, stay the course, but not becoming hardened in the process. That means a lot to me. AC: How do you balance responsibility between the workplace and home? KB: I think that this is something that is constantly in motion. Sometimes I’m really, really good at it, and sometimes I’m really not. When I’m good at it, I like to have 29 a paper planner that I like to look at; I like to visually see how I’m spending my time and make sure that aligns with my core values. When I’m not writing that down every day, it starts to spin out of control and that’s when I get frustrated or even angry, because I feel like I’m robbing myself of my own things. That’s my own fault, and I have to say, “Stop and write your stuff down and look at it.” It’s ok to say no to time, because sometimes you just get caught up in the motion of everything and then you stop and realize you haven’t done anything that you wanted to do, you’re people pleasing or showing up and... some of the stuff doesn’t matter, you know. I think my best practice is to write it down and make myself see where my time is going and if those percentages don’t add up to the person that I want to be, there needs to be a change and it has to happen quick. It’s always changing. Always. AC: What does “women’s work” mean to you? KB: I don’t believe in that term. At all. It means very little, I guess, would be my answer. I think that even like... I read something the other day that, women are supposed to be softer, but that doesn’t always come to everyone either, and there’s times, like with my boys, my kids, there’s definitely times when I’m like that soft mama, like give you a hug and take care of it. There are other times when I’m that roaring mama bear, you know, and protector and, even that emotional “women’s work,” I don’t know that that’s even something I necessarily believe in. I think your job as a woman is to figure out who the heck you are and what your passions are and how you can improve the world around you. And then you drive that as far as you can and that’s your woman’s work. 30 AC: How do you think women receiving the right to vote shaped or influenced history, your community, and you personally? KB: Man, there are so many things to say about that. I think it’s shaped everything, right? I wish more of us would show up and vote. I really wish that. But I think it’s changed everything, I think a lot of good has come out of that. It’s a hard question to answer in this current political climate. I feel like we’re going backwards in some ways, a lot of ways. I don’t think that I would have the job I have. I wouldn’t be here, I wouldn’t have the family I have. Like I have... the car payments, I pay the... those cars are financed in my name, that wouldn’t exist. The businesses are in my name, that wouldn’t exist. My meeting with the mayor wouldn’t have existed, you know, even... also, I received a full-ride scholarship for the first two years of my school and I think even that, just the value of a woman’s education would not... won. I think you just have to say, “none of it,” me as a person, the framework around us, all of it would be different if that hadn’t happened. It’s a big one. Just say it, more people need to vote. Put that on my paper: “She would like you to vote. Get educated and vote.” And vote in your own best interest, for the love of God. Women, go vote for yourselves.