Oral History Program Amelia Jones Interviewed by Sarah Langsdon 27 August 2019 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Amelia Jones Interviewed by Sarah Langsdon 27 August 2019 Copyright © 2022 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description The Beyond Suffrage Project was initiated to examine the impact women have had on northern Utah. Weber State University explored and documented women past and present who have influenced the history of the community, the development of education, and are bringing the area forward for the next generation. The project looked at how the 19th Amendment gave women a voice and representation, and was the catalyst for the way women became involved in the progress of the local area. The project examines the 50 years (1870-1920) before the amendment, the decades to follow and how women are making history today. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Jones, Amelia, an oral history by Sarah Langsdoni, 27 August 2019, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Amelia Jones 27 August 2019 1 Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Amelia Jones, conducted on August 27, 2019, in her home in Ogden, Utah, by Sarah Langsdon. In this interview, Amelia discusses her life, her memories, and the impact of the 19th Amendment. Alyssa Dove, the video technician, is also present during this interview. SL: This is Sarah Langsdon, I’m here interviewing Amelia Jones at her house. It is August 27th, about 1:20. Do you prefer Amy? AJ: Call me either way. SL: So, why don’t you tell us where and when you were born. AJ: I was born in England in 1962, my dad was a professor who was doing a visitation, like a visiting post-Doc type thing at the University of Nottingham, and I was born while my parents were there. SL: Oh really? I didn’t realize that. So tell us who your dad is? AJ: My dad is Leon Jones, he was a chemical engineer at Thiokol. My mother was from Ogden. My dad is actually from Coldwell, Idaho. They met in Salt Lake City at the University of Utah and they moved back here to this area when I was about five years old. SL: So talk about your mom. Who was your mom and what did she do? AJ: My mom’s Judith Jones, she’s the daughter of Val Browning who was a gun inventor and businessperson in the Ogden area. She also was a businessperson in her own right, she had a passion for needlework and back in about 1973 she opened a needlepoint store originally and it became a needlepoint, knitting, 2 weaving, spinning store. General embroidery, which it is today. She opened that on the back porch of Rainbow Gardens. Rosanne King was her cousin and said, you know, “I’ve got a small space that’s not being used at Rainbow Gardens and why don’t you... you can have a little store there.” SL: Do you remember what that was called? AJ: It was called “The Needlepoint Joint.” And it still is, that is the business that I manage today. SL: Ok. So how long was the store there? AJ: The store was there until about 1990, I’m going to say 1995 or 1996. There was a kitchen fire at Rainbow Gardens that caused some damage to the space that my mom rented from the Kings at Rainbow Gardens. At that time she also had realized that she had outgrown the space. It was very, very small. Then she decided that she wanted to have her own space and at that time 25th Street was actually not a very desirable area at all and my mom was really interested in getting one of the old buildings down there and rehabilitating it. So she bought the building that we now are in today and 241 25th Street. She got an architect to help her design it and she did a lot of work to the building and put in some custom cabinetry, so it really is a neat store down there. It’s beautiful. They moved there in 1996. SL: So one of the earlier businesses on the... AJ: That was not a restaurant or a bar. I think it was probably one of the first ones. I think after those Hi-fi murders, really no one wanted to be down there at all, and 3 then there was a bunch of people who started saying, “We can take back that street.” SL: So are you an only child or do you have siblings? AJ: I have two younger brothers. SL: Were they born in Utah? AJ: No, they were born in North Carolina. My dad was a professor at Duke University for about five years after he was in Nottingham and they moved to Durham, North Carolina. They were there for five years before my dad came here and got the job at Thiokol. SL: Ok, so when did you guys move back to Utah, do you remember? AJ: So that was 1968. SL: What was it like growing up in Ogden? AJ: Well, we lived in a little house by Weber State University for I’m going to say about five years, maybe. I don’t remember a whole lot. We were close to my grandparents and so I mostly remember visiting my grandparents. They had a swimming pool and that’s the kind of thing a young girl would take note of, is spending time at the swimming pool, and then when I was in the fourth grade we moved out to Pleasant View, to North Ogden. I then lived there and after I’d lived there for a few years, not too long, my parents bought a place that had a lot of land and there was a horse pasture. When they bought the house, and there were horses that leased the right to live in the pasture. So then my parents bought me a pony and I was all about ponies. So I grew up just loving horses and riding horses in North Ogden. 4 SL: Who were some people you looked up to when you were a little girl? AJ: Probably, my aunt, Roseanne King, my grandmother and my grandfather were the people I knew. I had a music teacher when I lived up on 42nd Street near Weber, I took piano from someone named Jolene Waterfall. She was an unusual person, in my mind she looked just like Dolly Parton. She wore a wig, that was one of the key things about her. I really don’t know if she was a great musician or a great music teacher, but I loved going to her house and she taught me a lot about life, as well as a little bit about music, which I don’t know much about. Every week we’d do something interesting, like one week she showed me how to make borscht, and one week she told me how to take care of her wig and why she wore a wig and what was cool about the wig. We did a lot of stuff that wasn’t music. We did flower arranging, and my mother didn’t really know this, but when she found out, let’s just say I switched music teachers. Honestly, Mrs. Waterfall was an inspirational figure, my next music teacher who I won’t name was really not inspirational. I didn’t learn music from her either. Although we did nothing but music. So [Jolene Waterfall] was someone I really looked up to. SL: Where did you go to high school? AJ: I went one year to Weber High School and then I went to boarding school in Southern California for the rest of my years. I went to North Ogden Junior High School. SL: When you graduated from boarding school were you encouraged to pursue an education after high school? 5 AJ: My mom wanted me to go to college, and really when I grew up I never thought I really would because I was really all about the horses. But my mom made it kind of clear that that was going to be a good thing to do, and that going to college was really not negotiable, that was something I had to do. So I did. SL: Where did you go? AJ: I thought that would be a fun adventure to go east. I’d gone two years in California and I thought, “Alright, this is kind of cool.” I loved that, I lived on the beach outside of San Diego, and I thought, “Ok, I’ve been that direction, let’s go the other direction.” I wanted to go east and I wanted to go to Smith College because my aunt had gone there, but I didn’t get into Smith. I was waitlisted, and I got into Mount Holy Oak College, which is probably about ten miles away from Smith, so I thought, “I’ll go there.” SL: What did you study at Mount Holy Oak? AJ: I studied mathematics. and I was a really bad math student. When I was in high school in California, my teacher was this really mild-mannered guy and the class was really, really wild. There was a woman in there who I’m still friends with, her name was Erin, she was really a bad girl, actually. She missed days, she was really pretty disrespectful to Mr. Moffett, that was his name, and I was super nice and a sweet student, so he really liked me, and I didn’t understand any math, but I have always had an excellent memory, so I could memorize my way through. I memorized my way through trigonometry, and I did really poorly on the GREs, but he’d given me A plusses in math, and so I went to Mount Holy Oak on the strength of my “math skills,” which were not there, but that’s how I got there. And 6 so I was like, “Well, this is a little odd ‘cause I know no math, but I’ll go with it.” So I did study math, I felt like I had to take math because that was the reason I got in. I wanted to be a vet and I took a lot of science, but in the end I really did not like taking lab sciences and so I switched to math ‘cause I didn’t like to write papers either. SL: So you graduated with your math degree. AJ: I did. SL: What happened after you graduated? AJ: I went to graduate school in math. So I actually found my way to understanding a little tiny bit about math and I really didn’t want to go out in the real world, I was like, “This is frightening. I’m not ready for that, I’m going to stay in school as long as I can, it’s kind of a haven.” So I went to the University of Oregon and I really didn’t ever think I’d get a PhD, I said, “Well, I’ll just go here, I’ll get a Master’s and I’ll figure out what I want to do in life and that’s going to be a good thing.” I made some great friends. I was in an unusual graduate program at the time because it was 50% women. That was an amazing statistic at that time. Now I think it’s a little different, but half our class was women and half our class were men. So I made some really close friends and I really enjoyed that experience. I just kind of hung out in graduate school and I was really kind of the worst in the class, but I was good natured and I liked teaching. I had a graduate teaching assistantship and I really liked teaching. I was a pretty good teacher, I would say. I enjoyed that and thought, “Well, I’ll just hang out here as long as I can.” 7 I studied low-dimensional topology, which is not theory, and I had a really unusual thesis/dissertation advisor, he was a really good-natured man. He was a large man, and he was wide and he was tall. He was almost seven feet tall, and he was an immense man and he just loved to tell jokes, that’s all he ever did. Didn’t even really want to talk about math, and I studied math with him. He had a student who was really also kind of an interesting person at Portland State and eventually he helped me find a thesis problem and I just got lucky. It was a thesis problem that I was able to solve and it had a nice punchline, really not for the ley person to talk about, it’s very, very technical. It was algebraic topology. Anyway, I was able to solve this problem and all of a sudden I was not the worst in my class anymore, I was able to give talks and people were like, “Wow, that’s actually kind of a cool thing she did.” So I actually got a post-Doc at the University of California Davis. I thought, “Gosh, I’ll go. I’ll do it. I’ll go there.” Two years at California Davis and then I got a tenure track job at Vasser College, and after about two or three years, I realized that academia was not for me, and so even though I’d had a wonderful time and I’d made a lot of friends and had some success in math, I decided I didn’t want to be an academic anymore. SL: So did you find it challenging being a female in a more masculine subject area? AJ: Yes. I think what’s a bigger challenge is that mathematicians are nerdy, they don’t tend to have great social skills, they really don’t, and it doesn’t matter if they’re men or women. But mathematicians are fair-minded people, I liked that. Like when I was at Vasser, a lot of the departments are super political in academia and I didn’t find that to be so true in math. But I found them to be fair- 8 minded people. I personally probably benefited from being a woman because people were looking to hire women, it was easier to get a job as a woman. Yeah, there were some jerks, and I had some unpleasant encounters for sure. SL: So what made you decide academia wasn’t for you? AJ: You know, I loved living in the east, I loved the Hudson River valley, I really did. I wasn’t making a ton of friends, I had a really close friend I met in the theater department that actually was from Brigham City and he was a temporary there and when he left, I also had gone to Vasser at an inopportune time, I’d gone there to work with a woman who, it turned out, had had some really bad luck in mathematics and was not going to get tenure. She had a lot of insecurities and she really was very unfriendly to me the whole time I was there. Her husband was really a jerk. I was friends with him, in fact, I kind of liked him. I still like him, but I didn’t want to, you know. It was an uncomfortable department and I started realizing, “I think this is deeper than just at that department.” I’d been at Davis. I’d been really stressed out at Davis ‘cause I had a higher research level and I, you know, I just didn’t think I could do that. So I thought, “I like teaching,” and I liked teaching calculus, but I could see that teaching calculus for the next twenty years might not be what I wanted to do. I was at an undergraduate university and Vasser didn’t have a great attitude towards math, it was more of an arts place, people wanted to be artists there. So I was like, “I’m not at the right college, I don’t want to go back to Davis where I loved my students,” but I didn’t think I could do the level of research that would be required to stay there. I just thought, “You know what, life’s long, I’m going to try something else.” I also started to 9 have some health problems, honestly. It turns out I have rheumatoid arthritis, it started when I was at Vasser and that was the beginning of like five really, really tough years. It took them a long time to diagnose me and it took almost ten years before I was able to get it under control. SL: So, you’re leaving Vasser, what did you do then? AJ: I came back to Ogden. I lived here a brief time then I moved to Salt Lake and I had a really tough time with my arthritis for a while. Then my mother said, “I’m ready to retire and I’m not going to sell the business. I’m either going to give you the opportunity to run it even though you know nothing about business, or I’m going to close it.” I said, “That’s an adventure. I’ll take it. I’ll do it,” and so I did. I’d done some advertising here and learned a little bit about graphic design—not much. So I knew a little bit about the business but not a lot, and I came up here and just started learning what I could. SL: So when was that? AJ: Probably just after the Winter Olympics, so around 2003. So I’ve been managing there and you know, I had a lot to learn. I had no background in business and, in fact, not a whole lot in fiber arts. I knew how to knit, I knew how to needlepoint at a really low level. So I had a lot to learn. SL: So how did you go about learning how to run a business? AJ: My mom had a lot of structure at The Needlepoint Joint that was really pretty wise and that helped me to have that structure. It helped me to not ruin the business while I was learning. She had great, knowledgeable staff, so I learned from my staff. I think a lot of people at first kind of felt like I didn’t really deserve 10 respect, because my staff knew more than I did, and to this day I still say, “I’m proud they know more than I do.” I’ve become pretty knowledgeable, but I’d say all my staff knows more than me in certain ways and I’d say, “That’s why I hired them!” Why wouldn’t I want to hire someone who knows more than I do. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. SL: So did you pick up any skills in the fiber arts? AJ: Oh, yeah. I can knit, I can weave. Spinning’s my weakness, but for sure stitching and knitting, and I worked really pretty hard at it. I’ve spent a lot of time learning the skills so that I could teach classes, cause I knew that I liked to teach and I still like to teach and I do teach classes down there. SL: A way of using your teaching. AJ: Yeah. SL: Is your mom and dad involved in it? AJ: My dad was never really involved in it, it’s really my mom’s business and she’s still the owner, my mom still helps me with the accounting. I’m a mathematician, but that’s not the same as accounting. They’re really very, very different, and I’m not really very good at accounting. SL: Well, I guess you didn’t really have a motivation for your chosen field that you’re in now, other than it just sort of happened. AJ: The motivation was adventure, the challenge of that adventure. SL: What is it like owning a business on 25th Street? AJ: You know, owning a business on 25th Street, it’s a lot of work. I mean, being a business owner, it’s a lot of work, because at the end of the day, whenever 11 there’s a problem, you’re the person who has to solve it. It’s not like working for a corporation. There’s a million ways something can go wrong and I’m the person who gets that call. There’s a lot to do, because I’m also a building owner as well as a business owner. Those are old buildings. There’s stuff comes up, old plumbing and electrical problems, so actually I manage the building, I manage the business. It’s also a little different because 25th Street’s, it’s a little bit of an entertainment district and we’re not an entertainment business really, we’re a craft business. So there’s a lot of activities that happen down there that are probably more catered to the restaurants and those aren’t really our niche. At the same time, I don’t feel bad about having a business down there because I think there’s a place for it. I think some of the restaurants probably like that there’s a reason to come down to 25th Street because they want to buy some yarn, and then they could also go to lunch, and that works well for me too. I think people from Salt Lake can come to The Needlepoint Joint. It’s one of the only yarn stores in Utah you can actually take public transportation to get to, and you can go to lunch, and there’s other shopping there. It’s a nice area, I like being down there. There are more businesses like Needlepoint Joint now, but for a while there weren’t so much and a lot of the marketing was more aimed at creating a restaurant scene, which I think has happened there now. It will be interesting to see how the street develops. It’s come a long ways from when we were there first. The Needlepoint Joint and Rooster’s were some of the first businesses, and then there were some other businesses that aren’t there now. I don’t remember 12 the name of that restaurant that had many incarnations. It was always a nice restaurant, but it’s where the Craft Burger is now. SL: Oh, it was a Greek restaurant. LR: It was a Greek restaurant, and before that it was kind of a upscale dining restaurant. It’s been a lot of different places. SL: The bistro? LR: Bistro 258 or whatever it was, I knew those places. Then there was the woman, her name was Mary, but I can’t remember her last name and I think she’s passed away, she had a gift shop, too. So I really knew the people who were on the street at that time, and now there’s so many more. I still know some, but it’s not quite—it’s not the same. You know, you just knew them better because there were so few of us, back in the early 2000s. SL: Do you find it interesting that a lot of the businesses on 25th Street are owned or run by women? AJ: I think it’s great, and I don’t think it’s surprising. In my experience, women are good organizers, and business is a lot about being organized. So it doesn’t surprise me at all. SL: Looking back on your family’s history, like the Brownings, what kind of effect do you think the Browning women had on Ogden? If you look back at your grandmother and great-grandmother? AJ: You know, I’m not super knowledgeable about that. I think my mom, she’s done a lot, because my mom’s an understated person, she doesn’t really like a lot of attention on herself, so she tends to do things under the radar. There’s a lot 13 happening in Ogden that I think people would never know my mom had anything to do with, and that’s the nature of my mom. My grandmother was not so much that way, she didn’t mind being a more prominent figure. That was more her nature, but it’s not my mom’s. So my mom has done a lot, like for the library, probably for Weber State, for 25th Street, for landmarks and the historical thing. She’s done a lot of stuff like that, but really under the radar, and she would give things anonymously more than that. My grandfather of course, he would give stuff more in his name or in my grandmother’s name. She was just a more social person and with that more social personality, I would say she didn’t mind more recognition. She was very interested in the arts for one thing, and wanted to see Ogden have more of an art scene. She cared about children, doing things like that. So they’ve all had their causes and have done things to help promote those so Ogden could benefit from the success my grandfather had, they shared their money a lot in this area. SL: When you are here in Ogden, have you joined or been part of any social organizations, service organizations? AJ: Let’s see, what have I done? I was part of Weber Pathways for a little while and Ogden Union Station, I’ve been on their board there and that’s kind of a difficult project, the Ogden Union Station. It was run by a private foundation and now it’s been taken over by the city, and that’s been a lot of work. It’d be interesting to see what happens there. I’m the member of, I think it’s the oldest literary club in Utah, it’s called Ladies Literary of Ogden, and that’s a little bit of society ladies lunching, but it’s kind of fun. We have some activities that go on at The 14 Needlepoint Joint, so I know some people that might be part of a knitting group. We have open knitting one night a week and there’s a number of people who participate in that, so I’ve met people through that. I’ve been active in the Democratic party on and off, I think I was a county delegate or something so I got to count ballots in the last elections and run some polling centers and do some things like that. SL: Have you ever had any ambition to run for office of any sort? AJ: I have not, but my brother has had some and I’ve supported some candidates for sure. I really supported Cathy Darby and Deana Froerer in the last election. Neither of them won, but I thought they were both great candidates, and I did some things to help them. My brother, when he wanted to be a delegate for the Democratic Convention, I rallied for him. I helped him write his speech. But he didn’t get elected either. SL: What brother was this? AJ: This was Al. His speech, it was actually very, very good, to tell you the truth. He’s actually a very good speaker. SL: Yes, I can see that from Al. SL: Let’s go back to Ladies Literary Society. So that is more of a generational pass-down from mother to daughter type of a thing? So obviously your mom was a member, or still is a member? AJ: Yeah. SL: So, you’re grandmother? Is that where she got it? 15 AJ: I’m going to assume so. I don’t know that for sure, but I’m going to assume. My grandmother, she had a bridge club I think she was active at the country club. My grandmother died when I was in seventh grade, so I have a juvenile perspective of her. SL: So their house is up on...? AJ: Was on 28th. SL: So the swimming pool that you talked about, was that sort of that communal swimming pool with all the— AJ: It is, yes. SL: There were great articles about that swimming pool in the newspaper, about how they would have parties and all kinds of things at that pool. AJ: Yeah, there were three families that had co-owned that area. The Eccles, Bill and Ruth Eccles, were owners, those were the main ones I remember when I was a kid. SL: The other one was a doctor I think. AJ: Yes, I think so. SL: So, as a woman, how do you define courage? AJ: You know, I don’t know if I would define it any differently than another person. I mean, courage is just having the wherewithal to say, “This is something that needs to be done and I’ll do it.” SL: Alright. So living here in Utah, you know, Mormons, big families, any kind of societal pressures to follow down that path? 16 AJ: Well, I’m an outlier. I’m a single woman, I’m not married, I am in a culture that values marriage and children, and I have no children. No, I don’t think I have. I don’t think I’ve felt that societal pressure. I think I’ve recognized that I’m probably a little bit of an outlier, but I just think our world is a big place, there’s a lot of little nooks and crannies and alleyways a person can go down and I accept that I wanted to go down some different alleyways than other people. SL: Ok. So what does the term “women’s work” mean to you? AJ: I mean, I’m guessing that to other people it would mean work around maintaining a house and a family culture. You know, creating family culture and stuff like that. I think that’s what other people might say. To me, women’s work is just doing whatever I think needs to be done. SL: So looking back on your life now, who were some women who have inspired you or mentored you? AJ: Let me think. I had a mentor, a woman professor at UC Davis when I went there, I got hired by her. Her name’s Abby Thompson. She was an inspiration for me, because she was a really successful topologist at UC Davis and I really liked her because she just did what she thought was right. I have always liked people who did what they thought was right. My dad’s mother was an inspiration for me just because she was determined to do whatever the heck she wanted. She didn’t care what anyone else thought. She wanted to do what she wanted to do. I liked that. My dad’s cousin Donnette, she’s in her eighties now. I’m inspired by her just because she loves art so much. I’m really a lover of the arts and my mother’s mother was also and my dad’s cousin was also, and just a real commitment to 17 the arts. Going to art, supporting visual arts and music and all that kind of stuff, because I love art so much. I’m inspired by people who just really love arts, because I think a lot of people, it just washes over them. I really like people who can feel the power of art. I’m inspired by that. SL: Are you an artist yourself? AJ: An inspiring artist. My mom is an artist. She does watercolors as well as, she’s a really good knitter, stitcher, and she does a lot of that. AD: How do you think education empowers women? AJ: I do. I do think it empowers women, because I think part of what education is is just hearing other perspectives about things. When you grow up you’re in an insular environment, you really are. It’s your family, and that’s not a bad thing but they have their perspective, and if you’re really getting an education, you’re seeing other perspectives and you’re learning something about the world that’s opening your mind to realize that life is for other people and could be for you, whether you choose to act that way or not. It also makes you realize some things about the world that you’re responsible for, whether you recognize it or not. I think education is super important and I, myself, I love to read and study about our world. That’s just a luxury, it’s a luxury that we live in a time where people have time to study about the world, whether they take advantage about it or not. I think it’s a luxury that everyone should take advantage of, it’s super interesting. SL: If you had the option or the desire to go back to school and get another degree, what do you think you would major in? 18 AJ: You know, I would want to study psychology. Ultimately, I think I really don’t understand people. In a way I do, in a way I don’t, and I’d want to understand psychology which I think, and I could be wrong about this, kind of lays bare what are some real facts about the human animal and it would be nice to know those. I’d also like to study art. So those two. One of those two things, for sure. SL: Ok, so before I ask our final question, do you have anything that we haven’t covered? AJ: I feel pretty good. SL: Alright, so this is our final question that we’re asking everyone. So obviously the project centers around the 19th amendment and women getting the right to vote. AJ: I didn’t even know that. Glad I know that now! SL: That’s sort of the impetus of all of this, using that time in history as a catalyst for women feeling like they had more power and the right to speak their mind, and what have women done with it since then? So, knowing that, how do you think women receiving the right to vote shaped or influence history, the community, and you personally? AJ: Well,the 19th amendment passed quite a while ago, so I didn’t live through the time where I would notice the changes, and I’m not really a student of history, so I don’t totally know, really a lot about the facts of it. As a person, I think everyone should vote and I think everyone should take that right to vote seriously and study and try and cast their vote in a way to make our condition better, improve our country and our region. I think having the right, being able to vote’s super important, and I hope people take it seriously. What was the question again? 19 SL: How has it impacted the community? AJ: Well there’s not crazy laws that women can or can’t do certain things anymore. There were at different times in history, all sorts of crazy laws about what people that couldn’t vote could or couldn’t do.I think, giving women the right to vote has allowed them to say, “Hey, I’m not putting up with this at all, of course I’m to vote that down,” and that’s a good thing. Allow people to speak out for their own rights, stand up for themselves, that’s one thing voting does is allow you to stand up for yourself. And it requires some study to be able to do that, and that’s why I want to study psychology. People are really masters of psychology in the media and they know how to pitch things, so if you don’t really look into the case, you’ll be like, “Yeah, I’m for that,” and then you realize, “Oh, if I look at it carefully, that’s really against my best interests.” That’s why education is important too. SL: Ok. Well, thank you, Amy.