Oral History Program Curtis Oda Interviewed by Brian Whitney 14 May 2015 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Curtis Oda Interviewed by Brian Whitney 14 May 2015 Copyright © 2015 by Weber State University, Stewart Library iii Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. The working files, original recording, and archival copies are housed in the University Archives. Project Description Immigrants at the Crossroads - Ogden City is a project to collect oral histories, photographs and artifacts related to the immigrant populations that helped shape the cultural and economic climate of Ogden. This project will expand the contributions made by Ogden’s immigrant populations: the Dutch, Italian and Greek immigrants who came to work on the railroad and the Japanese who arrived after World War II from the West Coast and from internment camps. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management This work is the property of the Weber State University, Stewart Library Oral History Program. It may be used freely by individuals for research, teaching and personal use as long as this statement of availability is included in the text. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Oda, Curtis, an oral history by Brian Whitney, 14 May 2015, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, University Archives, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. Kikue & Jack Oda Oda Family, circa 1980s Curtis Oda Family 1 Abstract: This is an oral history interview with Curtis Oda, conducted by Brian Whitney on May 14, 2015. Curtis Oda, the grandson of Japanese immigrants, talks about his Japanese heritage and examines his father’s life growing up in Northern Utah. He also describes being a part of the Japanese community and his public service. BW: We’re interviewing Curtis Oda about his Japanese heritage. Today is May 14, 2015, approximately 11:30 a.m. We’re at Weber State University Stewart Library. This interview is being conducted by Brian Whitney. Thanks for meeting with us Curtis. Do you go by Curt or Curtis? CO: Either way. I prefer Curt, but either way. BW: All right. Well Curt, we’ll talk a little bit about your family background to begin with. We’re going to work through this chronologically. So your grandfathers were the first ones to immigrate into Utah? CO: Yes, on my paternal side my grandfather Mitsugu Oda was born in 1877 in Hiroshima, Japan. Decided he wanted to immigrate on his own and make life on his own, only he came from a pretty well-to-do family over there. So he immigrated to the United States at the age of about 17, worked the railroad, some farms, things like that. Got robbed a couple of times on the railroad, was the camp cook. He was the first one up in the mornings, cooked breakfast for them. As the workers went out and did their work he was back at camp cleaning up, and he’d go out and help them for about an hour, come back, fix lunch, then he’d clean up and go back out and help them for another hour or two, come back 2 out and fix dinner. He was the last one to bed because he had to clean up from dinner. After the railroad work he settled here in Utah, Syracuse, in North Davis County. He also lived in West Point and then finally ended up in Clinton, Utah just a few miles away. He did sharecropping there and there’s a lot of the old families that are still there: the Holts, the Flints, the Thurgoods, the Childs, all these old-time families. We’ve been friends for three generations now. So it’s extended out as you know, good friends. Grandpa actually sharecropped with a great guy by the name of Lawrence Holts, and that’s basically when the war broke out in 1941. Fortunately, being inland like this they didn’t have to relocate under President Roosevelt’s Executive Order 9066. At the age of 40 he decided it was time to take a bride. It was an arranged marriage. He went back to Japan. She was about twenty years younger, and brought her back and they had five kids. Started out with a boy, then a girl, and then three boys after that. The oldest one was Isamu. Sam was his English name. He was quite the intelligent individual, I guess, because by the time he graduated from Davis High School, which at that time was the only high school in Davis County, spoke seven languages fluently and graduated—I don’t know if it was Valedictorian or not, but at the top of his class. He was studying in Japan when the war broke out and wasn’t able to get back. He died over there. Wanted to be a diplomat. I think he could’ve been wonderful at that. Second child was Rose, her Japanese name Toshiko. She grew up to become a beautician and then she married a fellow by the name of Peter Ohtaki. Her husband at one point became the western hemisphere Vice President for 3 Japan Airlines and they resided on Mercer Island in Seattle. You had to go across that wonderful floating bridge, right? So they’re both gone. They had one son, Peter Jr. Then my father was born in 1923, April 11, 1923. Graduated from Davis High School in 1941 and then later that year the war broke out. He and a lot of his friends decided they wanted to help the cause with the United States and try to enlist in the various branches of the military. Every one of them said, “We don’t want you. You’re the enemy.” Then they all got drafted by the U.S. Army. So that was kind of ironic. They were all supposed to be replacement personnel for the 442nd original combat team, 100th infantry that went to Italy and France. They were an all-Japanese unit, and to this day that unit is the most highly decorated combat unit in U.S. military history. A couple years ago President Obama actually declared Congressional Gold Medals, not Medals of Honor, Congressional Gold Medals. There were a number of Congressional Gold Medals that were issued to the members of that unit, as well as those who served in MIS, Military Intelligence Service, who served in the Pacific against Japan. However, my dad did not go into the 442nd although he was supposed to be a part of that. He was given an opportunity to join the Military Intelligence Service in the Pacific. This MIS in the Pacific is credited for shortening the war by two years. He became an interpreter and translator and apparently did a lot of that on the ships in the Pacific. He was in the first occupational force into Japan, U.S occupational force and he was one of the few interrogators that interrogated Mrs. Tojo, who was the wife of the war premier, the imperial commander of all Japan’s 4 military forces. He told me that it was quite a task as she kept changing dialects on the interrogation teams so it took much longer to interrogate and get answers than it normally would. Apparently she was quite brilliant, but you know General Tojo had already committed suicide. After the war, well Dad was actually offered a field commission to second lieutenant coming back, and he says, “You know, if I wasn’t good enough to be an officer before I’m not good enough now.” He refused it. He came back home and Grandpa, Dad and his two younger brothers actually helped to buy a farm in Clinton and it was a little over twenty acres. I think it was twenty-three acres or something like that. BW: What year? CO: That was about, I think it was about 1949. Up until then they couldn’t own property. You know there were also anti-miscegenation laws that they couldn’t inter-racially marry and all that kind of stuff. 1950, this was about 1949 when he met my mother. She just happened to be here from Spokane visiting her cousin who was getting married to one of my dad’s best friends. That’s where they met, was at their wedding. They started dating and got married on December 2, 1950. Lo and behold in January 1953, I’m born. While he was still farming and everything in 1950, he helped start the Utah Farm Bureau Insurance Company, he and a half dozen other people. So that’s how he got into the insurance business. He became the company’s sell director. He had some college classes and that. Back then it wasn’t quite as critical, so took some business classes and some business law, accounting. That was at the old Weber State College, way back when. 5 So Utah Farm Bureau flourished and back about 1963 the Farm Bureau Federation said, “We’re going to take over the company, the insurance side of things.” A lot of it was based on some selfish issues. You know, I’ve got a kid that’s got a DUI and you won’t insure him. So we’re going to take it over and do what we think is right. He basically said you guys don’t know what you’re doing. So he basically told them to stuff it. He walked out, a couple of other top executives walked out and thirty other agents walked out with them. In 1964, Dad started up his own independent insurance agency in Clearfield, and you know we had that agency there from then until 1995. BW: What was it called? CO: Jack Oda Insurance Agency. Around 1982, early ‘80s, Utah Farm Bureau ended up declaring insolvency. The Department of Insurance basically took them over, put out the word to all the other Farm Bureau insurance operations across the country. Iowa Farm Bureau came in and took them over. That’s who has got it now. When Dad and these others left in late ‘63, early ’64, they’d actually left them with a twenty million dollar surplus. That’s a lot of money back then. They just threw it out the window, building things they shouldn’t have been building and they didn’t do their due diligence on their underwriting and things like that. He passed away in December of 1994; sure miss the guy I’ll tell you. We used to do a lot of fishing and hunting together and playing golf and that. But those are the things I miss the most, his mentoring and everything. His two younger brothers, next one was Henry Noboru. He ended up, well after his farming and that he went into the army for some time. Well, for a little 6 while and then he got out. He ran a little café in Sunset called The Sunset Café for several years, and then things didn’t work out apparently so he joined the army again and it was mostly peace time. Vietnam wasn’t really going quite strong yet and he separated before it really got heavy. He was basically in the Quartermaster Corps, and he actually developed an inventory system for the U.S. military Eighth Army that’s still in operation today. He then—after he was in the military he met his wife Kazuko, in Japan. Brought her over here and she actually stayed with us while he was deployed over in Korea in Quartermaster. They ultimately moved to California; they had two kids, Sherman and Cindy. They’re all married, doing well. My aunt is still alive, living on her own but Uncle Henry passed away. I guess it’s been about, oh, seven, eight years ago. The youngest brother was Dave, Japanese name was Susumu. He actually served in the Korean War in the U.S. Army and came back. His wife, Yoshiko was from the Corinne, Box Elder area. They had, oh let’s see. Kerry, Shelly, Wendy and Wesley, so four kids. They’re all married and doing well in California and my uncle and aunt are still alive. I understand they’re not doing too well right now, but they’re still kicking. Let’s see, where do you want to go from here? BW: Well, let’s just kind of back up a little bit and go back to your grandmother. What was her name? CO: Her name was Mitsuye, and her family name was Takano. Also from the Hiroshima area, and as you know the Japanese back then as you get upper cast levels, social levels, marriages are arranged. So you know it has to be of at least 7 equal stature. So she was, like I said, only about twenty years old when the marriage was arranged. You know when those things happen obviously there’s some difficult times and things like that, but they made it through and they had the five great kids and they flourished. BW: Did he go back to Japan, marry her and then immediately brought her here? CO: Yes, brought her back. BW: What do you think her transition was like out here? I mean she just gets taken from Japan, the only place she knew, thrown out into Utah. Any ideas what she might have… CO: Oh I’m sure there was cultural conflict. BW: Transition. CO: Transition. You know I’d think it’d be no different than you or myself moving to another country just suddenly and trying to become assimilated. BW: Yeah, and well I’m thinking even culturally I mean topographically, I mean this is the high desert. CO: Right. BW: That’s just totally different. CO: Right. BW: Than where she was at. Is there any sense that they were able to tap into, I don’t know if you would know this, it’s pretty far back. Is there any sense that they were able to tap into a community out here in Utah? CO: Well there was a small contingence of Japanese out here already and I think that’s what kept them going. They developed a lot of friendships. There was a 8 small Buddhist church that was formed out in Syracuse. There was another small church up in the Honeyville area and a small one in Ogden and another larger one in Salt Lake. The Ogden and the Salt Lake one are still flourishing, doing very well. Syracuse has been gone for many, many years now and Honeyville, well I think the building is still there, but they’re pretty much dissolved. In Salt Lake, one of the things that helped them kind of keep jelled was 1st South where the Salt Palace is now and going west one block used to be what was called Japantown. The county condemned it back in the, oh god, back in the late sixties, early seventies, and totally just destroyed Japantown. The only things that are left in Japantown now is the Japanese Buddhist Church and the Japanese Christian Church, that’s it. So there is some thought about trying to rejuvenate some of that a little bit. There was a little bit of a threat that with the thought of the Salt Palace trying to build an add-on and building a hotel there that they may try to use their domain again. Right now it seems like that’s a dead issue. BW: Yeah, interesting. One of the things that I’ve noticed in talking about people who have immigrated here, talking to people, there’s regional variances in every country; there’s regional variances in Japan, variances in dialect, variances in religious belief or philosophy, economics, social stratification. It seems like when you’re removed from that setting and placed into another setting some of those differences seem to dissolve. CO: A lot of that I think is because coming to the United States is probably the main reason. You know it’s a melting pot and one of the main things was that everybody’s supposed to be equal. Deep down I think there was still a lot of 9 feeling of stratas, social stratas. For example, families from upper stratas had family crests. Those in the lower stratas or no stratas didn’t have one. So that was always a good sign of assimilation transitioning. You know I should be able to go back about 800 years, we do have a family crest so we’re able to do some genealogical research. BW: You told me before that your family heritage is tied in with the samurai? CO: Yes, we’re from a samurai family. In fact, both the Oda and Takano side were samurai. Dad was in the first occupational force as I said earlier, and first thing he did was go check on the family homes. Fortunately, the Hiroshima atomic bomb didn’t destroy the homes. They were all just on the other side of the mountain. The blast went up instead of leveling them. Both homes were still intact, but they’d been ransacked by the Australians already. All the armor, all of the weaponry, everything was gone. To this day I’m still looking for family artifacts. BW: Maybe you’ll find them in Australia. CO: It could be in Australia. I’m going to need to go over there sometime. We suspect that a major portion of that is at the bottom of the sea at Japan some place. Just don’t know, could be in the Pacific side of the island, I don’t know. The one thing I’m looking for is the family crest. You know, as in most cultures, the crest does morph a little bit each time a new generation comes along. So it makes it a little bit tougher, but we should at least be able to see the similarities and the transitions. We’re not sure, as I delve deeper into the genealogy it would be interesting to know whether we’re tied into the futile lord that was Oda Nobunaga. 10 Back, I think it was in the 4th century. I don’t recall exactly, 14th through the 16th century, somewhere in that era. It would be interesting if we could tie in there. Another thing I’m interested in is I found out that Admiral Yamamoto, who attacked Pearl Harbor, that he was actually not born into the Yamamoto family. He was actually adopted into the Yamamoto family, most likely to carry on the Yamamoto name. His family name is, his birth name is actually Takano which you know is actually my grandmother’s maiden name. So there may be a tie there. BW: Interesting. Tell me more about this being adopted into another family. That’s interesting. CO: Well, years ago it used to be that if a family with fairly high strata didn’t have a male child to carry on the family name they would go to a family of equal strata and adopt out one of the younger males. I don’t know what the protocol was, but the purpose was to help carry on the name. BW: That’s actually smart and important. CO: Yes, only problem is then you don’t know what the gene pool is and it could suddenly change and that can kind of mess up the, not necessarily the gene pool, probably help the gene pool, but it would make it a little bit more difficult in a genealogical sense. BW: Yes trying to trace it. CO: Tracing right. BW: Yeah, very understandable. I want to talk a little bit about the sharecropping experience. Historically we have a negative view of sharecropping because of 11 how disastrous it was in the south after slavery ended. So I think we stereotype that being the common experience, but that doesn’t seem to be the experience with your family. CO: No, I think most of that’s because they developed friendships more than anything and because they were prevented from owning land. The only way they could sustain themselves was to develop partnerships. With the friendships and the partnerships they helped each other. They became the labor to help the landowners; that partnership helped both sides. They were able to make a living and had some place to live and the landowners got their crops in, got all their work done and made profits. So with that they developed a strong bond, but I guess that depends on each culture as well, you know how that’s going to work. I believe my understanding is the very first collective bargaining that was ever done was by the Japanese rail workers, so I don’t know if that was a part of all this. How partnerships and all that can work and things like that, I think that’s where some innovation and trying to see what works, give it a try and if it doesn’t work you try something else. BW: So the sharecropping, the land that your family was on, the other sharecroppers that were on that land each with their own parcels or areas that they were responsible for, were there other Japanese do you know or mostly were there white… CO: Well I’m not familiar with exactly how that setup was. The way I understood it, the way this sharecropping setup was, it entailed the entire farm. My grandfather was basically the sharecropper labor side of it, the owner was the sharecropper land 12 side of it. He would provide the materials and all that kind of stuff and my grandpa basically controlled the labor side of it. He would help our family and help hire other labor; that’s where the partnership came in. He was responsible for making sure everything went smoothly. BW: So he’s almost like the foreman? CO: So to speak, and I think that it’s a slightly different setup than you see in the south. BW: Exactly, and it sounds like as long as you have a good working relationship that it can be a wonderful way to provide for your family. CO: Oh absolutely, and they became such good friends. During the war there was a lot of ill sentiment against the Japanese, and there was one incident where a soldier on leave came upon where they lived and actually threatened them with his sidearm. The land owner, Mr. Holt, found out about it and ran back to the house and grabbed him and I guess beat the crap out of him, got him arrested and all this kind of stuff. So yeah, I mean if the friendship wasn’t there and respect wasn’t there for each other I don’t think that that would’ve happened that way. BW: Exactly, that’s a good story, I was hoping you were going to bring that one up. Let’s talk a little bit about your father’s childhood experiences here in Utah. Where did he go to school? CO: Let’s see, went to, I think it was Syracuse Elementary, which was an old, old, old elementary school down there. It was North Davis Junior High School which is still there. I live almost across the street from the new building there. Then he 13 went to Davis High School which was the only high school in Davis County. Again, he graduated in 1941. You know they had all their own sports and all that kind of stuff. They all liked their baseball and basketball and all that just like we do today. Economics was so hard making a living, Lagoon was there in Farmington, but they didn’t get to go to Lagoon very often. If they did it was Grandpa saying, “Here’s 20 cents, go enjoy yourself.” This is a story that Dad always told me, he said, “Out of that 20 cents we used 5 cents to get to Lagoon on the Bamberger Express. We’d take one ride, we’d have an ice cone and the last 5 cents was for the ride home. That’s all we could afford.” They developed their own baseball teams, little league teams and things like that, mostly tied with the church. BW: You reminded me that your family was farming and sharecropping and your father was being raised during the Great Depression. Did that shield them, having a little bit of sustenance from farming or did the Depression affect them? CO: Well I think it affected everyone to some degree, but if you were in Utah it didn’t affect farmers, crop farmers quite as badly. They couldn’t make money on the outside, but they could raise their own crops, they ate. You know they maintained their relationships with their neighbors and they bartered and helped each other out. If someone was having some difficulty with getting their crops in, other farmers would say, “Hey, let’s go help them and get their crops in.” It was a huge communal support and I think that’s why Utah farmers flourished. 14 BW: One thing that I’ve also heard from other interviews that I’ve done is it seems like farming communities, because they have to get together and aid and assist each other, it seems like sometimes that helps reduce some discrimination. CO: Oh absolutely, absolutely because you depended on each other, and that’s something we’re seeing less and less of today. BW: We continue to urbanize. CO: We do. BW: That’s very interesting. Let’s talk about your mother and her birth in Seattle. CO: Yes, I’m not sure when her parents, my grandparents, Kurataro and Shigemi Matsumura, immigrated here. They both came from Japan, I believe they were also from the Hiroshima area and I don’t know very much about that side, what their strata was or anything of that nature. I understand there’s a crest so at least we know there’s a certain level. They settled in Seattle, my mother was born there in May of 1928, and well she just had her birthday May 7th. She was the oldest of five kids; four girls and a boy. Which is different than four boys and a girl with my paternal side. My mother was the oldest, and then she had three sisters after her and then my uncle, who is only eight years older than myself, who was actually born in a relocation camp during WWII. BW: I see. I don’t think I got your mother’s name. CO: Her name was Kikue. She went by Kixie. BW: So the family did end up getting relocated? CO: Yes, they were thinking about buying a home and everything. They were in apartments and that, but for some reason Grandpa decided he wasn’t—it wasn’t 15 quite time. Then the war broke out and everybody could only take one suitcase per person and they pretty much had to leave everything else behind. Fortunately they didn’t own a home at that point so they didn’t lose their home. They’re taken to a fairground not too far away and I don’t know… BW: Kitsap County Fairground. CO: Okay, you’re familiar with that area because that’s where you’re from. The first year that they were relocated was at that fairground. They actually had to clean out their own horse stall to make that home for a year. They said especially during the winter time it certainly wasn’t comfortable and the smell was horrible and everything. They survived and then they were relocated from there after the permanent camp was built in Minidoka, Idaho. These internment camps, there was a total nationwide of about 120,000 people that were relocated. President Roosevelt signed Executive Order number 9066 saying, “Hey we’ve got to protect ourselves against this espionage, sabotage and all this kind of stuff.” Funny thing is they didn’t do that to the Italians or the Germans and it was all because of appearance is what it boiled down to. I guess what we call that today is racial profiling. It only happened to those along coastlines, and again my dad’s family didn’t have to be relocated because they were already inland, in Syracuse, Utah. There were, I believe, ten relocation camps total. There was even one here in Utah down near Delta called Topaz, and a lot of Topaz survivors are still here in Utah. She, my mother, actually got her high school diploma at Minidoka. 16 Well, and then my uncle was born in Minidoka. After the war they didn’t move back to Seattle though, they went to Spokane instead. Her first sister was Toshiko. She lived all her life in Spokane, married, never had kids but she passed away. Oh god, it’s probably been fifteen, eighteen years ago. The next sister was Michiko. She got married and had some kids in Stockton, California. Her husband passed away here about five years ago, she’s still alive. Kids are Todd and Kelli Ann. Kelli Ann passed away at a young age leaving her husband and two children. See then her baby sister was Miyoko, went by Midge. She married once, didn’t work out, got divorced and never remarried. No kids and she’s still alive in California. My uncle, Tadao, was born in camp in 1945. He got married once, got divorced. Then, I guess he then had what you’d call common law marriage ‘til recently. His partner, she passed away just about two years ago from a serious heart condition. He graduated from a high school in Spokane. He came to University of Utah for his mechanical engineering degree, his masters at Stanford, then got a job with IBM and was there for about twenty years and decided it was time to retire. Bought a nice home in California when prices were way low, and here I guess it’s been about six to eight years ago, sold that for oodles of money in California and bought a nice home around Tahoe and is living there now, loves it there. He’s never had any kids of his own and he was the last hope for namesake for Grandpa Matsumura. BW: Did your mother ever talk about her experiences in camp? 17 CO: Yes, she has. As a high school kid it doesn’t hit you quite as hard as it does as an adult because you’ve got your friends, you develop other relationships, you don’t have as many responsibilities. Although there’s way more responsibility at a camp like that than there would be living at home in Seattle. You know they still had their dances and things like that so it wasn’t nearly as traumatic I guess you could say. The worst part she said was the horse stall at the fairgrounds. BW: Probably felt a little degrading. CO: Absolutely, and she said the other thing that really got to them was the fact that they were told they were being relocated for their own protection. When they get to camp, they’ve got these huge barbed-wire fences with all the machine guns pointing inward, not outward to protect them. So that’s what was very concerning to them. There were people shot that probably shouldn’t have been shot, but how do you prove that? BW: Do you think it affected her view of Americans? CO: No, not at all. That’s the thing about both the experiences my dad went through with the military, the camp experience that my mother went through and her family. I think you’ll find this pretty generally true throughout the Japanese community. There’s a few dissenters, but they didn’t do any sabotage or espionage, anything like that. There was not one case of that during the war. Anything that actually happened were actual enemy soldiers in mini subs or whatever that were discovered off the coast. None of the U.S. born or their parents who immigrated here did any of the espionage or any kind of spying. None of that ever happened. There was not one case documented. 18 After the war, as I indicated before with my dad, he and his friends said, “We’re going to have to again prove ourselves, prove our allegiance and everything.” That’s why they wanted to help in the war. They were sent to Italy and France, but my dad went into military intelligence. So it was about loyalty to the United States. The sentiment there, to be right honest with you, is when the war broke out they asked their parents, “Where do our loyalties lie?” The typical answer was with a question, “Well son, if you were born to your biological parents who could no longer take care of you and you were raised by your adoptive parents who gave you your opportunities and education and helped you to become who you are, where would your loyalties lie?” The answer was obvious. So that’s why they joined the military, to help the United States. After the war it was, “Well we can’t sit around feeling sorry for ourselves, we have to pick ourselves up by the bootstraps and make a go of life again. We need to prove ourselves again.” So they did. Education was the number one issue with all of them and they basically, within one generation, penetrated every field of endeavor there was after the war. BW: Ambitious. I find that fascinating and I have a lot of respect for it. It would have been easy, I think, to just feel betrayed, to feel a sense of injustice, but it seems like they just went back to work and said, “Let’s not worry about the injustice.” CO: That’s exactly what happened…right! They got educated and within one generation penetrated every field of endeavor. BW: “Let’s move forward.” 19 CO: We can’t forget, but we’ve got to move on. There is an organization called the Japanese American Citizens League. They were based in San Francisco, but during the war they actually moved their base operations to Salt Lake City. If you remember back in the eighties, the Iranian Crisis, some of the sentiments were very, very similar. “Let’s gather them all up, let’s ship them out, let’s intern them, let’s put them behind wire.” To be honest with you, the JACL is a civil rights organization, but they don’t work like some of your other ones do, the more notorious ones. They work behind the scenes and they were the first ones back in D.C. saying, “Wait a minute, you’ve already made that mistake once.” Again, “We can’t forget,” said the JACL back in the seventies. It wasn’t the Issei generation that immigrated here. It wasn’t the Nissei generation that was born here first time, second generation. It was the Sansei, the third generation, my generation, kids of those parents who were born here that said, and back then the United States was pushing human rights issues all over the world, we’re saying, “How can you push that onto everybody else when you haven’t cleaned up your own closet?” So President Reagan finally repealed Executive Order 9066, did a formal apology and everything else. It wasn’t about getting money or anything like that, but our civil justice system in the United States is about money. So Congress did a 20,000 dollar restitution to every survivor still living at the time of the legislation, of all of the camps. My mother actually gave hers to charity. She said, “This is blood money.” The relocation camp history was supposed to go into history books with a formal apology and the repeal of Executive Order 9066, but if you’ve noticed the 20 history books still don’t have much about that in there. One column, one photograph and about a hundred words and that’s about it. They don’t really get into it and my fear is that if we don’t teach the kids today of what happened that, just like the old saying goes, “You’re bound to repeat it.” BW: Yes, I don’t think as a nation we like to look at ourselves as making those kinds of errors, but it’s important that we recognize that. It doesn’t make us a bad nation. CO: Right, but look at how some of the history’s being taught today. Some of the history teachers are saying, “Well, the Holocaust never happened.” But if you tell people something long enough it becomes fact. BW: That is true. Well, let’s talk about your background a little bit here. When you were born, where were you born? CO: I was born at the old Dee Hospital at the top of 36th Street and Harrison Boulevard, Ogden, Utah on January 1953. I was the first born of my parents, and I had a sister Shurie who was born in January of 1955 and I guess that wasn’t enough for my parents. They waited fifteen years, well thirteen years, to have two more kids. I had a sister, Staci, born in May of 1968, in fact her birthday will be in a couple—let’s see today’s the 14th, tomorrow. Her birthday’s tomorrow. Unfortunately she passed away in December of 1995 of cancer. Then my kid sister Jacki was born in February of 1970. I stayed here in Utah, tried to take care of parents and that’s typically the charge of the oldest boy. My sister just under me is married and lives in McKinleyville, California with her husband and 21 one daughter Kara. My kid sister is married and has a daughter Lauren in Columbus, Ohio. So I’m the only one left in Utah except for my immediate family. BW: Sure. Did you grow up feeling Japanese or American or both? Explain this. CO: Both, I think that was the upbringing of my parents and the way my dad made me feel about the United States, the fact that this is the greatest country in the world. That this is the only place that you’ve got the ability to make your own opportunities. If you don’t cash in on your—opportunity only knocks rarely and you better answer that door. He says, “You can do pretty much what you want. Just be honest about it, have high integrity and ethics, and you can make it.” He says, “Son, will there be prejudices? Absolutely.” One of the things he said was, “If you look for it, you’re going to find it.” So I don’t look for it. If someone is prejudiced against me that’s not my problem, that’s their problem. I don’t have to do business with them. I don’t have to associate with them. If they want to be vicious about it, again it’s not going to affect me unless they get violent or something like that and I will defend myself. I think Utah as a whole has been very, very good. It’s not like some of the other, larger cities that seem to be problems. BW: Yeah and your family goes way back here. So it seems like the Oda name is… CO: It’s pretty well known. Outside of my dad’s superb reputation and everything I think I’ve built my own reputation. I’ve been involved with public service a lot, I ran the family insurance agency for a number of years and I’m now with an agency up in North Ogden called Heiner’s Insurance. When I left my own agency, I figured I’m not going to—I don’t want the human resources issues 22 anymore. I don’t want to have to deal with all the management duties, mainly I just didn’t have the time for all that because my public service. In 1981, I actually became a president of the local chapter of the Japanese American Citizens League, the Wasatch Front North chapter. Then in 1983, I became the first vice governor of the district which involved all of Utah and Southern Idaho. So I was pretty involved there and also in 1982 I became involved with city government. I was appointed to the city planning commission in Clearfield. I was there for six years, well not quite six years. In 1987, I became the President of the Independent Insurance Agents of Utah, the Utah chapter of a national association. At which time I told the city I couldn’t do the planning commission thing anymore because of my time commitment with the association. They said, “Well we can’t afford to lose you, will you sit on the Board of Adjustments? We only meet once or twice a year.” I said, “Okay, we’ll do that.” It ended up being about seven or eight times, but I got through that. Then I served on the Clearfield City Council thereafter for two terms, that’s eight years. In November 2004, I was elected to the Utah State House of Representatives. I became the first Asian, first person of Asian descent in the Utah legislature and we now have five with some Asian mixed blood or pure. Either way, I kinda broke the ice there. BW: Well in some ways you’re more Utah than other… CO: Oh I am. BW: Our representatives. 23 CO: I am the Utah culture, although I’m not of the predominant religion, because I have such conservative views and values. I’ve been told I could probably make a better Mormon than a lot of Mormons. The thing is, I have to maintain my values; I’m not going to compromise that. As long as I’m doing what’s right I don’t care who I make mad. BW: Sure. With your Japanese associations were there any regular planned community get-togethers for people with Japanese heritage here in Utah that would create that sense of community? CO: Oh yes, I mean the Buddhist churches and the Christian churches. The Japanese Buddhist and Christian churches have always associated together for all these years. They still have, each year, the two Buddhist churches have their Obon festivals in July, which is a dance honoring the dead. Then each August, I think it was August, no it’s in October, they always have their Food Festival, it’s a bazaar and a few other events. BW: Does that travel around or is that usually… CO: No, that’s just at their church locations. Then every April they have what’s called the Nihon Matsuri, or Japan Festival, in Salt Lake City right on 1st South. They close off 1st South between 2nd and 3rd West where the Japanese Christian and Japanese Buddhist churches are. BW: So where Japantown was? CO: Where Japantown was and they have booths and demonstrations and they have tea ceremonies. Little trinket booths and I believe this is, we’re in our tenth year 24 of that and it got huge, absolutely huge. So I’d be willing to guess that more than 10,000 people showed up. BW: Wow that is enormous. CO: Yes over the full day period, people come and go, but that’s just my guess. I could be way off. BW: Was there ever any Japanese Day at Lagoon? I’ve seen Lagoon do a lot of heritage days. CO: You know I don’t recall seeing anything like that. There used to be what was called the Farmer’s Picnic, Japanese Farmer’s Picnic that was always held in May at Davis High School. With most of the Japanese community not farming anymore that kind of disappeared. That was always a huge event because all the Japanese farmers from across the state used to come to that. BW: Yeah, that’s neat. So just a couple of questions to wrap this thing up. Do you see a generational shift into this third generation, and perhaps even into the fourth generation away from the interest of keeping their heritage? CO: No, I think what we’re finding is that we’re pretty well assimilated into western culture. I’ve intermarried, I’m married to a Caucasian gal. Her name is Nancy. She is a wonderful wife, mother and grandmother. My kids are half-breed. We call them hapa: half and half. We have a daughter Cydni, born January 1981. She is married to Adam Hull. They’ve given us a granddaughter, Charlotte, and a grandson, Grayson. Our second daughter is Lindsi, born in October 1983. She is married to Brandon Gordon with no kids yet. Our son Ryan, born January 1986, he is not married yet. All our children are very successful. What we’re finding is 25 that they don’t want to lose heritage, they’re okay with the lifestyle in that, but they still want to understand what their background is. I think that’s important and one of the things that I would love to see Brian, and I’ve said this for years…one of the things I think causes more problems than solving is by saying, “Japanese American, or African American, or Mexican American.” We’re all Americans first, but by delineating our heritage we’re already becoming divisive. I would love to see us all go to a term of American Japanese, American Mexican, American African. That, I believe, would actually unite us more, but I get a lot of resistance on that idea. We don’t have to lose our heritage. We’re becoming a mix of, well I guess you could say we’re all becoming somewhat of Heinz 57 and there’s nothing wrong with that. The issue is maintaining pride in where you came from. If we’re going to have a mix in blood we’ve got to figure out where we all came from and be proud of that. So I think we just need to keep pushing on that aspect. Prejudices may still be there, but again that’s not our problem, that’s the problem of the person with the prejudice. BW: Celebrate your commonalities. CO: Correct. BW: I like it. What do you think the Oda legacy is here in Utah? CO: Well I hope it continues in a good path. I think we’ve, well my immediate family’s done a lot of social good. My dad was appointed to the Davis County Selective Service Board, I trained in the Marine Corps in officer training when I was in college. We weren’t anti-Vietnam War. We didn’t like why the war was happening, but our President called us into battle, we’re willing to be there. The 26 thing is we embrace the whole idea of not to dishonor our family name. I think that’s the key and I would hope that my kids carry that on. BW: Then let’s expand that out a little bit. This will be my last question: what do you think the Japanese legacy is here in Utah? CO: Well it’s, the bloodlines are thinning out because the intermarriages and such, but again that’s okay. To be right honest with you, I think the culture here, overall, has embraced the Japanese culture a lot stronger than it used to be. It’s getting stronger and stronger, because you see way more sushi houses and sushi parlors. With the influx of the so-called cartoon characters and the video games and things like that, like at the Japan Festival, you see tons of kids coming through there with their Anime costumes and it’s just fascinating. I can’t get into that, I think it’s kind of weird myself, but that’s their culture and I know my parents thought we were weird. So it’s okay. BW: Wonderful. Well, this has been a pleasure. I really appreciate your time. Is there anything else that you’d—that we’ve missed that you feel like you need to say or want to say? CO: You know I think we’ve pretty well covered everything. If there’s anything there that you think we may have missed— BW: No, I think that we’ve touched all the points. CO: Great, thank you Brian. BW: Well thank you.