10 AUTOMATIC AUTOMATIC SHOTGUN. barreled shotgun ; but it is the automatic shotgun to which you object? Mr. Suieips. The automatic is the only one mentioned in this bill; but I gave notice five years ago to all concerned that we must prohibit the use of all repeating rifles and shotguns if we are to have any birds or animals left in this country. I have told these gentlemen in half a dozen hearings we have been in that within a few years we shall have to ask Congress and the States to pass laws prohibiting the use of all repeating shotguns and rifles: We might just as well face this matter. Mr. Hornaday has also stated for years past that the time must come when all this must be done, or else we must submit to having our forests and our’fields become as barren of wild animal and bird life as these Capitol grounds to-day. You may occasionally see a robin here, or a bluebird, but if the use of all kinds of guns is not curtailed to the greatest possible extent the time will come when you will never see a wild bird anywhere except on pre- served ground. This letter from the Agricultural Department also gives the following: (8) States which prohibit guns larger than No. Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, Ohio, Utah. 10 gauge: Alaska, Arizona, Now, gentlemen, if you can limit the size of the hole in the barrel of a gun which may be used in hunting birds you can certainly limit the number of cartridges it may carry. [Reading:] (4) ginia, f f ft ~~ States which Ontario, prohibit (5) Provinces which Northwest Territory. | guns larger than No. 8 gauge: Tennessee, Vir- Quebec. prohibit the use of the automatic gun: Manitoba, Mr. Hreerns. So far as you are concerned personally you are op- Mr. Sutetps. I am willing to assent to that, and personally Iam Mr. That posed to the use of any sort of a gun for the killing of game? in favor of it. Hieerns. is what you would do if it was left to you? That would prohibit what is known as the double-barreled shotgun ? Mr. Suievps. Yes, sir. Mr. Hicerns. Will you not comment, | please, on the difference be- tween the quantity of game that can be killed by the ordinary double- barreled shotgun and the quantity that can be killed by the gun this bill discriminates against ? Mr. Surevps. I will answer that by a letter from Mr. Arthur Robinson, which reads as follows: : New Mr. G.:0. 1269 Broadway, New York City. Regarding the use of the automatic two seuthbern ducking clubs, where I have seen a’'flock even three of these into a single flock. guns were of ducks in use, and shotgun, would these guns are Say that I am used very ex- come into a blind where one. two, have seen as as shots’ poured many 11 If there had been but three men with double-barreled would have been only six shots. Mr. Hiceins. They could have reloaded. Mr. Suirups. Yes; or guns there i | but the birds would go 100-feet while the men were getting the empty shells out, reaching after the new shells, put- | shoulder. their it to getting and gun, the closing 11 We have considerable poaching on one of these clubs, the territory being so We own 60,000 acres, and these extensive that it is impossible to prevent it. They frequently kill poachers, I am told, nearly all use the automatic guns. six or eight ducks out of one flock, first taking a raking shot on the water, and then getting in the remainder of the magazine before the flock is out of range. in fact, some of second magazine them carry two into the same guns, are and able to discharge a part the of flock. Fire five shots out of the first gun; drop it; pick up the other, and get in part of that magazine before the birds get 75 yards away, which is about the limit of killing range. This letter continues: As I told the you other I am evening, not so much the against the hands of gentlemen and real sportsmen, but, on account sibilities for market hunters, I believe that the only safe gun in when of its terrible posway is to abolish it entirely, and that the better class should be willing to give up this weapon as being the only means of putting a stop to this willful game slaughter. Very truly, yours, i ARTHUR ROBINSON. I have here a number of copies of this letter, and I will be glad to give you gentlemen the addresses of these clubs and give you a chance to communicate with the people on the ground, so that you can get at all the facts. ; Now, Mr. Marshall will read you a letter from the President of the United States bearing on this subject, and in self-defense Mr. Coiz. Have you any from Grover Cleveland ? Mr. Sureups. No, sir; I have never taken the matter up with him. Mr. Coxz. He is mighty good authority. Mr. Surevps. In January last I called on President Roosevelt in order to get an expression from him as to whether he favored the use of this automatic gun or not. The President received me and I talked with him. I said, “ Mr. President, I have come to talk with you about the automatic shotgun and tell you I am fighting it.” He said, “I know it, and I am with you heart and soul.” I said, “ That is good; and now may I quote you to that effect?” He said, “ Yes. Sit down, I want to talk with you.” We sat down and talked over the matter for half an hour. Here is the interview as I wrote it out. I sent him a typewritten copy of it and wrote him: Mr. President, have not quoted interview at all, it please make SHIELDS, ... DEAR. Sir: a meniber of tensively. DANN & RosBrINson, York, March 21, 1906. ting them in, ( Reading :) SHOTGUN. here is a copy of the you correctly, please say say so. If there ate any interview that I had with you. If I so. If you do not wish me to use the changes you would like me to make in them. Mr. Hicerns. I-understand that the President has hunted mountain lions ¢ Mr. Sutreups. Yes, sir. Mr. Hiecins. Do you suppose that he would trust himself out in the woods without a repeating rifle, with lions all around him? Mr. Sureips. I think he would. He is a thorough sportsman and a dead shot with a rifle. T have never had any trouble in killing any game on this continent with a sinele shot. Sometimes I have not done it, but 1f a manJs a careful hunter and a careful shot, he can kill any animal in this couniry with a single shot. It may be necessary sometimes to give an animal a second shot, or even more, to keep him from running too far,