67 JONES: Well, that is so in this way, the biggest market by far of the coking coal and iron ore produced by Utah and the copper produced by Utah is Japan, a nation that has extraordinarily limited natural resources. It imports almost all of its natural resources. Now, Japan has been a nation with which the General Electric Company has been very closely involved. We work very closely with both Toshiba and Itachi, we have licensing agreements for many products with both of them, we have a significant minority position, 10 percent or more, in Toshiba. We have a number of joint ventures in Japan with a number of different companies on a number of different products. CARR: Would this be in licensing? JONES: Both licensing and joint ventures where we, in effect, own a piece of the business and the Japanese company owns the other piece of the business. This is the way that many of our chemical businesses are run in Japan on a joint venture basis where a Japanese chemical company owns a piece of the business and we own a piece of it. It's the way our Information Services Business is run in Japan. Dentsu, the world's biggest advertising agency, owns a piece of it, we own a piece of it. We have an air conditioning